Riding the T (sorry 56k)

[Illegally_Alive]

Here are some people from my current project- Oh how I hate the T. Well it's really just The T, but I can dream can't I?
The T is slang for MBTA- Boston's subway system. I have a photo permit which I wear proudly and a beautifully 20d which I hide behind. Nothing beats the nifty fifty (especially for making the camera look less scary for those in front of it).

http://www.illegallyalive.com/t/IMG_5955.jpg

http://www.illegallyalive.com/t/IMG_5958.jpg

http://www.illegallyalive.com/t/IMG_5963crop.jpg

http://www.illegallyalive.com/t/IMG_6015.jpg

http://www.illegallyalive.com/t/IMG_6021.jpg

Let me know what y'all think.

-Ben

[Illegally_Alive]

P.S. This guy wants to kill me...
:evil: (removed)

[ayotnoms]

Cool photos...you don't run into people who resent having their pictures taken?

[Illegally_Alive]

ayotnoms-
eh- what can they do? :D j/k
Yeah I do, tonight I had a lady cover her face, and keep it covered for a long time. I felt bad, but I have to get my work done.

If they really resent it they'll shoot me a look, sometimes I don't notice because I'm really focused on composition, but eventually I get the hint.

[Ikinaa]

Interesting subject. I guess there's a lot to shoot...

What do you do when people come to you and say that they don't want to be photographed and that you have to erase the pic?

You say you have a photo permit, but that's only good for the 'T', not for the people in it.
Do you make everyone sign model releases?
Is it legal that you posted these pics here?

I don't want to spoil your fun and work, but these are questions I ask myself also when shooting in a city and getting people in the pics...

[ayotnoms]

Yeah, I was wondering because with a 50mm it's not like you're far away.

I ride BART everyday here in the SF Bay Area and often think, "I wish I had my camera.." but also wonder whether it would upset people; especially during commute hours. BART doesn't issue photo permits so photo taking is not common.

I saw an exhibit of photos taken (surrepticiously)of 1940's NYC subway riders at the SF MOMA years ago that was awesome. People doing routine, everyday things is what grabs my attention.

Anyway, loved your photos. Thanks for sharing...

[AndrewR]

One of the reasons I'll probably NOT sell my Sony F-717 is because the swivel body of that line is awesome for candid shots. Most people think you're fiddling with the camera and have no idea you're snapping.

[Illegally_Alive]

Yeah I do, tonight I had a lady cover her face, and keep it covered for a long time. I felt bad, but I have to get my work done.

I was rereading what I posted and realized this it looks really harsh... I took one picture of the lady and once I realized that she covered her face I stopped and put my camera down.

As far the legalities I'm pretty darn sure the permit is good for photographing the people within the T. When I applied for the permit I put on the application what I’d be doing and, when I received it there was no mention that I couldn't.
Also, I don't get releases signed because this work is not going to be published or used for ad copy- and it'd be next to impossible.
I'm not really into trying to hide the camera. So if the people really don't want to be photographed I'm not going to take the picture.

With this work I'm trying to capture how boring it can be for the people that ride the trains- so I'm looking for people sleeping or zoning out. I ride the stupid thing for over 80 min. a day so I need something to do! :D

-Ben
p.s. I believe that the NYC photos were taken by Walker Evens. (Going to class-1 Skipping-0)

[ayotnoms]

p.s. I believe that the NYC photos were taken by Walker Evens. (Going to class-1 Skipping-0)

I wish I made note of the name. I remember just staring at those photos imagining who those people might be; what they were thinking at the moment the shutter went off; what their lives were like.

Maybe I should concentrate on getting a life myself rather than thinking about the lives of people in a picture LOL

[Illegally_Alive]

Maybe I should concentrate on getting a life myself rather than thinking about the lives of people in a picture LOL

No! That's what's so great about pictures! :D

[michael.luczkow]

As far the legalities I'm pretty darn sure the permit is good for photographing the people within the T. When I applied for the permit I put on the application what I’d be doing and, when I received it there was no mention that I couldn't.

what's that saying? ignorance is no defence of the law. I'd be carefull about that if you're going to be posting the stuff on the internet like this. for a class or something I can't see the harm but for this forum... I don't know. I'd try to find out if I were you, but that's just me.

[Illegally_Alive]

I went in to the dept. where I applied for the permit and asked what their policy regarding consent was... the people there couldn't give me a solid answer. Great. So I've sent the MBTA an email and I hope it finds its way to the correct people.

Maybe I'm misreading this, but some of the posts regarding this issue seem kind of grumpy.

To the best of my knowledge I thought that the permit granted me consent. Having to ask everyone for their permission changes the look of the rider. I would like to get photos of people in their element, as apposed to posing for the camera. But in the same sense I don't want to be pissing them off. (yes i had a picture of that one guy, but I took it down in respect to him)

As far as posting on this forum goes- I am more than willing to remove any picture at anytime. It's not like negative things are being said about these people, nor is anyone saying "OMG SHE'S SO HOT!!!!" Basically I don't really see the harm, if it turns out that these were taken illegally I'll pull them, otherwise I'll leave them.

-Ben

[LisaMarie]

Photographers cannot take pictures of a person in a public place without permission if that photo is going to be used to promote any goods or services. ( the permisson of the person- not the company that gave you permission to photograph in their venue.. naturally they have the right to look away as you have stated and can make complaint of harassment if it gets to be too much )

That is the law in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts as well as many other places.
However.... should the photographs be used for editorial purposes then it is okay. Example that is how most photographs end up in the paparazzi magazines , newspapers and why any joe schmo can sell photos of pro sports with out a license as long as it's a editorial caption and not implied falsely licensed by the team or individual. Photojournalists are editoral - Iegally can sell or be paid by the MBTA if they wish to use his photographs for editorial purposes as well as any newspaper or entity that will use it in a editorial fashion . Of course after this comes alll the gray area that gets legally interperted in many different ways on a case by case basis- the photograph is not supposed to be captioned slanderous and can come under fire legally.

Illegally- I love the one of the man sleeping- reminds me how glad I am not to be a T regular anymore ! 20 years was enough !

[ayotnoms]

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. You're not publishing a book with these photos. (right?) You received a permit from the governing body to take photos so I think you're on solid ground legally. If anyone wants to sue, they can sue transit authority for granting the permit.

Cripes, if consent were required for every photograph that had even small distribution, we'd never see a photograph in a newspaper. Heck, I'd even supplement my income by searching out photographers, insinuate myself into their photos, then it's "Hello, Your Honor". How crazy is that?

[shrug]

[ayotnoms]

...on the other hand there's the issues raised by Lisa Marie.

I'd still take the pictures, which I fully intend to do the moment I'm released from custody.

LOL

[marie]

very nice and interesting

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

[Krieg]

Nice pics, thank god I don't have to ride the T anymore. You wouldn't happen to go to AIB?

[Illegally_Alive]

Thanks guys!
ayotnoms- Actually not only am I publishing a book, but I'm also using them in a national print campaign for Sure Deodorant.

Sike! :lol:

Krieg- Emerson. Wooooo! .... er... woot. Oh what a great darkroom it has. :rolleyes: That's why i'm digital!

Also does it bug anyone that there are large blurry areas of the photos? (Not that it can be helped ;) ) Just wondering, that's all.

[ayotnoms]

LOL
I would have thought that a Sure Deodorant campaign would wait till the summer.

As for the blurry areas, I think they should stay. In other photos, in another setting they would be distracting. Here they accentuate the fact that you're taking the pictures on the sly...with no assurance of a clean shot...this is of course, in my humble opinion.

[charlesu]

Number two looks a bit like Dustin Hoffman.