Canon EOS Digital Camera Question

[BC-20D]

I have a question for anyone who is knowledgable of the Canon EOS digital cameras. My father bought a EOS Digital Rebel (6.3 megapixel). I use it as a photographer for the local high school sports and it has been nothing short of perfect, except one thing...The night shots don't turn out very well. They get blurry and not focused. Since I no longer live at home, I find myself in the market for my own camera and I really love Canon digital cameras. So i guess my question is, is there a digital camera out there that takes crisp night sports photos, ones that won't blur or be out of focus? What would be the best one for me to get? I asked a friend and he said it may be because of the flash. But I don't know for sure. So if anyone out there has extensive knowledge with these cameras or have any advice for selecting a good digital camera, please let me know, anything helps. Thanks.

[Jon]

Examples? Camera settings? Lenses used? You'll need to use a high ISO and a fast lens for night or indoor sports or you'll get blur both from camera shake at slow shutter speeds and subject motion at slow shutter speeds. The DR has a firmware hack available that will let you use it at ISO 3200. The 20D does ISO 3200 OOB, as does the pricier 1D Mk II. Both also have larger buffers and higher frame rates than the DR. The upcoming Digital Rebel XT also has a bigger buffer than the current DR, although the same 3 fps.

[BC-20D]

For example...I photgraph the baseball team, and I can get the ball to stop in mid air in and its awesome. But at night anything that moves to fast (like a baseball and players) gets blurred, I use a tripod most of the time. I am not in any way comparable to a professional photographer, so I just always use the automatic settings for the camera. So does that means I will have to manually change the settings to a faster shutter speed and increase the ISO, right? As far as the lenses I use, I have the one that originally came with it, 18-55 mm. Then I have another telephoto lense that I mostly use and it is 70-300mm. Do I need a better lense? better flash? or just step up to the big leagues and use the camera manually instead of automatically? Thanks for your reply.

[Andy_T]

BC,

crisp night sports shots is one of the most demanding photo situations for any camera that unfortunately also requires $$$ gear. *A lot* can and will go wrong here.

Whether the photos will come out find would depend on
- the lighting of the court
- the lens you're using (very fast lens, preferably 1.8/85 or 2.0/135 or 70-100/2.8...)
... Slow prosumer lenses will not work very well
- what flash you are using and at which distance
(550 EX should work, internal will only work very close up)
- what ISO setting you use (as high as necessary, as low as possible)
... maybe 1600 - 3200

So what could you get?
- the new DRebel 350 (900$, when it hits the market), it will have less noise at high ISO
- an external flash (200$ for Sigma 500)
- a fast lens (350$ for 50/2.4 or 85/1.8, 1200$ for 135/2.0 or 70-200/2.8 )

Hope this helps....

Best regards,
Andy

[cmM]

well, for low light sports photography, it all boils down to (like mentioned before) a fast lens, acurate focusing, and clean high ISO images. When light is low I usually use manual mode, to be able to control both shutter speed and aperture.

[BC-20D]

Andy, I have been looking up the EOS Digital Rebel 350 (XT), and it looks good. One thing I couldn't find was when it was suppose to come out and the exact price. So if you, or anyone else, knows, could you please let me know. Thanks.

[Jon]

The first thing you'll want to do with the DR is take it off of "Sports" and use "Av", set to f/4 (which will adjust to f/5.6 as you zoom out) and ISO 1600. "Sports" will only use up to ISO 400, so by making that change, you'll gain 2 stops. Using Av set at your widest aperture will ensure you get the fastest shutter speed consistent with the light available. That will also get you started seeing what settings you'll need.

The DRXT (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58320) thread mentions suggested price $899 body only/$999 with kit lens and shipping in March.

[S230]

I had come across this very same problem when I originally got my Rebel. Since then I've installed the hack and use the 50mm 1.8 and you will definitely notice a difference. The kit lens is unfortunately not good for indoors and I was about to head towards the Nik*n D70 because of it. Canon should had produced a better kit lens to attract new customers instead of scaring away people.

[S230]

Forgot to mention... If you plan on taking long exposures., ie. 1hr and above such as stars, the Rebel certainly does a better job than the D70. I compared side by side with my friend's D70 and by the time I've finished taking the shot, I was already doing my other while the D70 is still processing the noise reduction. The Rebel is not a bad camera. Just bad lens. The answer to part of your question is if the object doesn't move much at night, it's great even with the kit lens. If it's close, use a flash to compensate. Personally, I've stuck with Canon because they are technically more advanced in DSLR than many other companies. The Rebel is surprisingly a pretty good camera.

[Canonnut]

I don't want to sound harsh, but you need to take a class or read a beginners book
on photography. It sounds like you have no clue on shutter speeds and f-stops, or
how the asa setting effects these. Do a google search on sports photography and
maybe you can get the info you need from that. Good Luck.

[HJMinard]

you need to take a class or read a beginners book
on photography.

Good advice.

Do a google search on sports photography and maybe you can get the info you need from that.

Alternatively, BC-20D could get the info needed from the normally friendly, helpful and knowledgeable members of this forum.

[12345Michael54321]

Alternatively, BC-20D could get the info needed from the normally friendly, helpful and knowledgeable members of this forum.
Unfortunately, it sounds like BC-20D lacks much understanding of something as relatively basic as the use of fast shutter speeds to render fast moving subjects sharply. Consequently, the info he needs is rather lengthy.

The normally friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable members of this forum are a fine resource, but one best utilized for addressing specific or at least rather narrowly defined photographic problems. They're a somethat less than ideal resource for providing basic photographic education on extremely broad and essentially fundamental matters.

There's nothing wrong with BC-20D not being particularly knowledgeable about photo basics. (Nobody is born knowing this stuff, and most people simply aren't very interested in learning it.) Nor is there anything wrong with Canonnut suggesting that BC-20D would be better served by a class or a book (or at least a website), then by the sort of short and inadequate explanations he'd receive as replies to a thread on this forum.

[HJMinard]

Unfortunately, it sounds like BC-20D lacks much understanding of something as relatively basic as the use of fast shutter speeds to render fast moving subjects sharply. Consequently, the info he needs is rather lengthy.

The normally friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable members of this forum are a fine resource, but one best utilized for addressing specific or at least rather narrowly defined photographic problems. They're a somethat less than ideal resource for providing basic photographic education on extremely broad and essentially fundamental matters.

There's nothing wrong with BC-20D not being particularly knowledgeable about photo basics. (Nobody is born knowing this stuff, and most people simply aren't very interested in learning it.) Nor is there anything wrong with Canonnut suggesting that BC-20D would be better served by a class or a book (or at least a website), then by the sort of short and inadequate explanations he'd receive as replies to a thread on this forum.

I don't think we disagree much on this matter, Michael. As you can see, I agreed that a book or class is good advice. However, I just found it a bit ironic that someone's first post on the forum would instruct someone esle to perform a google search ... something he certainly could have done without seeking information on this forum ... a forum that he probably found through a google search to begin with. A more useful and practical approach would be to direct BC-20D to useful information via links or known resources.

[S230]

I think everyone is great trying to help BC-20D. I myself was a newbie several months ago. I've fast-tracked and now even attend a photography course to learn the basics.

BC-20D.., I recommend you visiting Canon's Tutorial Online Course. it's free and specifically teach how to use the Rebel. I learned a lot from here too.
http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/index.html

[BC-20D]

Its kind of funny you mention that, HJMinard. Because that is exactly what I did, searched in google for this forum. And i am sure glad that I found this one because everyone has been nothing but help to me. And for the record, I did take photo all through high school, but that was a few years ago when I used regular film. I am slowly making the move to digital and I do plan on learning more about digital photography, I just needed a quick answer for now and I knew that this forum could help. So thanks again. Any other advice will still be greatly appreciated.

[12345Michael54321]

And for the record, I did take photo all through high school, but that was a few years ago when I used regular film.
Even though many retailers would have you believe that digital changes all the rules (the term "Digital Ready" is a marketing executive's dream come true - I once listened to a salesman explain how a "Digital Ready" camera strap was different from a non-Digital Ready camera strap), most of the basic principles of photography taught in pre-digital high school photo courses are still valid.

And even the things that you'd think are no longer valid - like darkroom work - really still apply to some extent. It's just that things which used to be done under the enlarger (burning, dodging, altering contrast, etc.) are now done in the computer.

I am annoyed that the "Intermediate Photo Techniques Workshop" course I took with Mr. Murphy, in 1979, neglected to cover Photoshop CS. Even though in most other ways my high school was a pretty good one.

[mbze430]

Film and digital sensor don't matter, the basic apeture, shutter speed, and ISO film rating (digital sensitivity rating) is the same. I highly also suggest getting a "refresh" book, that way you might remember some of the basic from your high school years in photography class.

[triangle]

I have a question for anyone who is knowledgable of the Canon EOS digital cameras. My father bought a EOS Digital Rebel (6.3 megapixel). I use it as a photographer for the local high school sports and it has been nothing short of perfect, except one thing...The night shots don't turn out very well. They get blurry and not focused. Since I no longer live at home, I find myself in the market for my own camera and I really love Canon digital cameras. So i guess my question is, is there a digital camera out there that takes crisp night sports photos, ones that won't blur or be out of focus? What would be the best one for me to get? I asked a friend and he said it may be because of the flash. But I don't know for sure. So if anyone out there has extensive knowledge with these cameras or have any advice for selecting a good digital camera, please let me know, anything helps. Thanks.

BC, welcome to the forum. I have become very informed as a photographer from this resource and I was where you were back in late 2004 when I started. I began with a Kodak point and shoot and got great results during the day in my Sports photography. However, when I began shooting night games the camera could not do the job. Therefore I graduated to the DSLR by buying a DRebel and the kit lens. After getting still poor results in dim lighting (great in the day), I began inquring and asking questions and searching through this forum and a few others. I now have sold my kit lens and replaced it and would like to buy some more lenses with low f stops (big apetures). Preferably nothing with more than f/2.8, the results will be in the lens not just the camera (comparing DRebel with the bigger Canons). The lens matters most in this case, I get great results with the DRebel and am able to blow up to a 16x20 with clarity. Most people only ask for an 8x10 enlargement anyway. Also, I bought the 580ex first and found I still needed the faster lens. With that said, I would suggest using your $$$ for quality lenses; L if possible. And I would go with the New DRebel XT if you don't mind a plastic body. The D20 is more rugged and has more features and is what I will upgrade to probably. If you can afford that and the lenses, that is your best route. But don't spend all of your $$$ on a camera and use cheap lenses or slow lenses (small apertures) believing you will get clear night shots, it won't happen. Lenses AND the Camera matter for low-light photography. If you have not heard, B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home/) is a great place to buy equipment. And here is a Study Resource (http://shortcourses.com/) for the Camera you choose, I bought the lesson for my DRebel and it was $$$ well spent.

My 2 cents, hope it helps. :)

[Marvinspu36]

I can second the recommendation to buy the study resource from ShortCourses.com specific to your camera. I have thoroughly enjoyed the one for my 20D. I bought the book and CD. I find the PDF file on the CD with the color images and markings a real benefit.

[S230]

BC-20D, if you are looking for a quick review of the Rebel, you can pickup a book for $5.
"Learn the Canon EOS Digital Rebel Camera for 5 Bucks (Learn...for 5 Bucks)
By: Stephen Gregory"
I bought it myself. It's very general but for $5 u can't really go wrong.
As to what camera to get, I suggest you get the Digital Rebel 300D first then upgrade to the 20D. My reasoning for this and NOT getting the 350XT is because you can use the came batteries for the 20D. I am disappointed whenever a company changes it's consumable accessories such as Toners, batteries, etc just for marketing purpose.