How do I solve this exposure problem?

[ebann]

Consider this scenario:

1) Large living room about 10x10 meters.
2) Shot at night with some incandescent lampshades illuminating the room.
3) Subject is sitting on a chair in the middle of the room.
4) The subject's background (about 5m back) is a nice fireplace and interesting furniture.

I want to shoot the subject *and* the background. I can use a flash if needed. I used a G9 and 420EX.

Attempt #1: Full Auto mode yielded a well exposed subject *but* background almost pitch black. Dumb camera.

Attempt #2: Full Manual mode exposed to the background yielded a nice exposure *but* the subject needs to be very very still otherwise motion blur occurs.

Attempt #3: Full Manual mode exposure to the background *and* fired the flash (don't know if on first or second curtain, if there's such a thing on the G9) yielded an overexposed foreground, a little overexposed subject, and nice background. I did notice a little motion blur.

I thought #3 was the way to go but I guess while the camera is still exposing the background (slow shutter speed), there is enough ambient light to expose the slight movements of the subject. Is there a better way to shoot this scene? Am I stuck at telling people to stop moving until the background is exposed by the camera? Is there a difference between firing the flash on first curtain or second curtain on quite stationary subjects? Do I need faster glass (i.e. DSLR + fast glass) to make this work?

Thanks for your help! :)

[Deckham]

Bounce your flash off ceiling or board, adjust shutter speed downwards to minimum 1/40th and ISO upwards to 400 and aperture open up to around f/4 until exposure for subject and background suits purpose.

[PhotosGuy]

Attempt #2: Full Manual mode exposed to the background yielded a nice exposure *but* the subject needs to be very very still otherwise motion blur occurs. Is this a portrait? FYI, IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO HAVE A PROBLEM IMAGE TO LOOK AT.
We used to shoot cars with models on 8X10" film using 30 second exposures. Maybe you can put something behind his/her head to give them a reference so their head doesn't move. Attempt #3: Full Manual mode exposure to the background *and* fired the flash (don't know if on first or second curtain, if there's such a thing on the G9) yielded an overexposed foreground, a little overexposed subject, and nice background. I did notice a little motion blur. You have to get the flash off the cam & play with the distance & place you're firing it from. Farther away evens the light fall-off a bit. Bouncing at different areas of the ceiling does too.
Two, or more strobes would be even better.

If I were you working with what you have, I'd go with #2 & kick in some strobe from as far behind you as I could get.

[ebann]

Bounce your flash off ceiling or board, adjust shutter speed downwards to minimum 1/40th and ISO upwards to 400 and aperture open up to around f/4 until exposure for subject and background suits purpose.

I was reluctant to try anything greater than ISO 200 on a G9 especially in dark situations. That limited my shutter speed I'll admit.

I started playing with my wife's G9 after I saw some really high quality ISO 80 long exposures of night scenes. I was trying to get some of that on a portrait.

[ebann]

Is this a portrait? FYI, IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO HAVE A PROBLEM IMAGE TO LOOK AT.

Yes, it's a portrait. I will post a few test shots I took that evening when I get back home.


We used to shoot cars with models on 8X10" film using 30 second exposures. Maybe you can put something behind his/her head to give them a reference so their head doesn't move.

You mean, put something touching at the back of their head so they can feel if they are moving? 30 seconds?!? That must be quite a task for the models!

You have to get the flash off the cam & play with the distance & place you're firing it from. Farther away evens the light fall-off a bit. Bouncing at different areas of the ceiling does too.
Two, or more strobes would be even better.

I spent the night reading the G9 manual. There *is* FEC control in Tv and Av mode and Total Flash Output in M mode. I could probably try adjusting the total output in M mode. Hopefully it will work with 420EX? (I can always use the 590EX if not)

Two strobes seems interesting... fire #1 behind me to illuminate my subject (or off-camera with total output adjusted for proper subject illumination) and fire #2 behind the *subject* towards the background to illuminate the background! What do you think? Too artificial? (i.e. background colors and illumination won't appear natural and ambient)

If I were you working with what you have, I'd go with #2 & kick in some strobe from as far behind you as I could get.

I can't get away telling my subject not to move right?

I wonder... can I up the ISO (to about 400/800) on a G9 assuming that flash illumination will provide good lighting for proper exposure and *thus* eradicate the nasty chroma noise?

[Deckham]

I'd not go above 400.

[neilwood32]

Ebann - option 3 is your best option but the problem with your image is that the flash is overpowered for the shot you want. Use the FEC (or total flash output- not sure as i havent used the G9) to reduce the flash to the level you want. If you up the ISO, you can reduce the exposure time reducing the likelyhood of blur but this has the drawback of noise.

Bear in mind that you cant do anything to remove motion blur but you can remove noise in post processing.

Bounce flash is definately better though as this tends to remove the "deer in headlights" look that direct flash produces.

[PhotosGuy]

You mean, put something touching at the back of their head so they can feel if they are moving? Yes.
30 seconds?!? That must be quite a task for the models! It's what they get paid for. Other perks include swimsuits in the Winter & fur coats in the Summer. ;)
I could probably try adjusting the total output in M mode. Options: adjust the flash output if that is possible, or put a neutral density or colored gel on the flash. Two strobes seems interesting... fire #1 behind me to illuminate my subject (or off-camera with total output adjusted for proper subject illumination) and fire #2 behind the *subject* towards the background to illuminate the background! What do you think? Or fire #2 behind the *subject* towards the subject to separate it from the background. Three strobes might work better for that. Too artificial? (i.e. background colors and illumination won't appear natural and ambient) Maybe. It's your job to make it look right. ;) I can't get away telling my subject not to move right? Sure you can.

[krb]

It sounds to me like your option #3 would have worked fine if you pointed the flash at the ceiling and maybe adjusted the flash compensation down about 1 stop. Would work best if you had a gel to make the flash match the ambient light.

[PhotosGuy]

and maybe adjusted the flash compensation down about 1 stop. In a static situation like that seems to be, & where I needed to shoot some tests, I'd never use anything but manual exposure. Why? This shows how the subject can affect the exposure & why manual keeps me worry free:
Post #47 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5191658&postcount=47)
Click the "Thread: Need an exposure crutch?" link at the top-right if you'd like more info on exposure.

[krb]

In a static situation like that seems to be, & where I needed to shoot some tests, I'd never use anything but manual exposure. Why? This shows how the subject can affect the exposure & why manual keeps me worry free:
Post #47 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5191658&postcount=47)
Click the "Thread: Need an exposure crutch?" link at the top-right if you'd like more info on exposure.
I said "flash compensation", not "exposure compensation".

[ebann]

I said "flash compensation", not "exposure compensation".

I was hacking my brains on this one for a while... thank goodness FEC is still within Manual Mode domain! ;)

The Exposure Clutch is a very good read! Thanks!

[PhotosGuy]

I said "flash compensation", not "exposure compensation". You're right, but I think they both work the same in that the cam/flash reads the light & decides how to adjust, without really knowing what it's looking at. The only flash compensation I use is to adjust the output to where I want it.

So, "In a static situation like that seems to be, & where I needed to shoot some tests, I'd never use anything but manual exposure."