Canon's fill-flash implementation

[scoutmattster]

Is there a way to get an A-80 to do a "true" fill-flash?

By "true" I mean that it fires the flash without adjusting the exposure parameters from what they would be without the flash (assuming a shot where flash is not needed anyway).

Scenario: shooting in daylight with the subject's visor casting a shadow on her face. My A-80 takes a fine photo, but the face is a little too dark. When I force the flash to fire, the A-80 bumps up the exposure a little, so the rest of the photo gets a little over-exposed -- not a whole lot, but enough to be noticeably and annoying.

You might suggest switching to manual mode, but please don't. I do not want want to switch to manual mode every time I run into this situation.

I managed to get a Canon technical support guy on the phone, but he didn't seem to understand the problem... couldn't grasp that I would need the flash without needing more light in general. :roll:

So, gentle readers, anyone have experience with this?

Thanx.

[cactusclay]

Humm, I don't know the A80, but does it have any sort of exposure compensation adjustment on it? If it does, then you might try underexposing a stop.

[jfrancho]

Humm, I don't know the A80, but does it have any sort of exposure compensation adjustment on it? If it does, then you might try underexposing a stop.

I think to acheive the effect that scoutmattster desires, he would want overexpose the shot by a stop. He wants the photo exposed as without the flash, but use the flash to fill in shadows.

I'm not sure about the A80 either, but there might be a "P" or program mode that might work as an alternative to setting the camera up manually. Program mode is pretty much automatic mode, it sets up the shot with the "correct" parameters, but with the ability to change a few things. Check the instruction manual for "P" or program mode and exposeure compensation. It is usually just a matter of holding the shutter halfway and pressing another button. Then it would be a just a matter of setting the flash to on while shooting in this mode. I've used this method, along with exposure bracketing (check in the instructions for this, it may actually give you the results you want) with great success getting nice outdoor candids. That is until I learned the joys of RAW file.

~JF

[kpkeerthi@yahoo.com]

I achieve good results on my A70, by switching to Aperture priority mode with the following settings:

Aperture 5.6f. Lesser or greater than this may cause focussing difficulty.
Exposure compensation +1 or +2 (depending on the shadow and brightness of the back drop).
Flash off.
ISO 50. Anything greater than that produces visible noise.

I hope A80 also should give you good results with these settings.

[Moppie]

Just use manual mode.

That way you can also set the flast intensity, which if you want to use it for fill you will need to do.

Set the settings for the background, turn on the flash and shoot away. You will need to check the histogram, and review then adjust the flash intensity to suit.

[scoutmattster]

Humm, I don't know the A80, but does it have any sort of exposure compensation adjustment on it? If it does, then you might try underexposing a stop.

I think to acheive the effect that scoutmattster desires, he would want overexpose the shot by a stop. He wants the photo exposed as without the flash, but use the flash to fill in shadows.

I'm not sure about the A80 either, but there might be a "P" or program mode that might work as an alternative to setting the camera up manually. Program mode is pretty much automatic mode, it sets up the shot with the "correct" parameters, but with the ability to change a few things. Check the instruction manual for "P" or program mode and exposeure compensation. It is usually just a matter of holding the shutter halfway and pressing another button. Then it would be a just a matter of setting the flash to on while shooting in this mode. I've used this method, along with exposure bracketing (check in the instructions for this, it may actually give you the results you want) with great success getting nice outdoor candids. That is until I learned the joys of RAW file.

~JF

The A80 does have exposure compensation, but it takes a few more button presses to get there than I would like.

My subjects are usually kids in outdoor activities. I want candid shots. I can control the flash on the A80 with a single button, but to change the compensation, I have to press "Func", then navigate the menu to the exposure compensation item on the menu, then make the adjustment. By then, I've lost the moment.

The A80 has "Program" mode, and I use it almost all the time. Also, it has a two "user-defined" modes ("C1" & "C2"), so I will investigate setting up Program mode with a slight exposure adjustment, and storing it in one of those modes.

I'll post results after the experiment...

What's so cool about RAW files?

[scoutmattster]

I achieve good results on my A70, by switching to Aperture priority mode with the following settings:

Aperture 5.6f. Lesser or greater than this may cause focussing difficulty.
Exposure compensation +1 or +2 (depending on the shadow and brightness of the back drop).
Flash off.
ISO 50. Anything greater than that produces visible noise.

I hope A80 also should give you good results with these settings.

Thanks, but I don't understand "Flash off"...

How will your settings enable me to lighten up a shadowed face without also overexposing the rest of the scene? I want the rest of the scene to stay the same while illuminating shadowed faces with the flash. I thought that's what "fill flash" was supposed to do.

[scoutmattster]

Just use manual mode.

That way you can also set the flast intensity, which if you want to use it for fill you will need to do.

Set the settings for the background, turn on the flash and shoot away. You will need to check the histogram, and review then adjust the flash intensity to suit.

I do shoot manual mode when I can afford the time required to maintain settings. But usually I do not have the time to set, check, reset, etc. (See above reply regarding shooting kids outdoors.) I got an A80 because it has many options for manual control, plus some good automatic modes, with tweakability. But the A80 is lacking in the flash-control department. (Aside: in full-auto mode, I can disable the flash, but not force it. Why? I have to switch to Program mode for that. No biggie. I like it better anyway.)

Maybe I'm asking too much for a P&S++ camera. Does anyone have experience with other digital cameras and their "fill flash" modes?

[scoutmattster]

I think to acheive the effect that scoutmattster desires, he would want overexpose the shot by a stop. He wants the photo exposed as without the flash, but use the flash to fill in shadows.

Actually, that's what the camera is doing -- over-exposing when I force the flash to fire. What I want is for it to *not* change anything, other than firing the flash.

Thanks anyway.

[jfrancho]

Gotcha! Sorry, I had it backwards. I can see where all the button pushing can get frustrating. Let me put forth this suggestion, and I realized it is a little "lo-fi", so don't everyone yell at me. Find a small piece of that clear plastic material that is used for flourescent lighting in dropped ceilings, just the size to cover the flash. Somehow affix it to the camera so that it diffuses the flash, I just use a rubber band. It looks incredibly ugly but seems to be just enough when the flash is too much. Once you have it rigged, chase the kids around and snap some pics the same way you were before. See how that works for you. Here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61451) is a link to another thread where I used the same technique for a quasi macro shot. I got this trick from my father who used it on early point and shoot film cameras with a built in flash. Some of them had ridiculously bright flashes. Anyway, try it out.

~JF