Does color management survive screenshots?

[AndreaBFS]

My color doesn't seem to survive screenshots. Is it supposed to?

I've noticed this twice now and I've googled, but I haven't really been able to find an answer. I just tested again and it's repeatable. My colors change when I take a screenshot and then load that screenshot into Photoshop.

To clarify, if I am looking at a file in PS that is correct, then I take a screenshot of the file and create a new document and place them side-by-side, they don't match. Likewise, if I create a graphic and upload it to the web and view it with FF3 with color management ON, it's correct on screen.. but if I take a screenshot of the browser and paste it back into PS, it's way off.

I never noticed this before I was calibrated, so maybe I did something wrong when I calibrated? Or is this just an issue with screenshots not being color managed? The screenshot *is* in sRGB... maybe there's something else I need to do?

[tzalman]

Color management in a nutshell is that PS reads the embedded profile and therefore "knows" what colors the numbers in the image data represent. It then changes the numbers in the display data sent to your monitor to new numbers that represent those colors in your monitor's space. That means that PS must have two things in order for C.M. to work: an embedded image profile and the monitor profile. When you do Print Screen the computer is doing the same thing as when you copy something to the clipboard. All that gets copied is the actual image data without the metadata. Metadata is the extra info contained in a jpg file, like Exif and the embedded profile. So, without the profile PS has to assume that the image's color space is whatever you told it to assume when you set up the color management. And the screen shot isn't in sRGB, its in your monitor space. If you instructed PS to treat an image without an embedded profile as if it were sRGB, then PS now has it wrong and the colors get changed.

[tonylong]

I find that some images don't translate to jpeg/sRGB as well as others. It's wierd -- I load pics up to my PBase site and am normally pleased, but then I get a pic that looks great in Lightroom and just comes out boring after I convert it. Maybe that's what you're seeing.

We'll just have to go back to the good old days when the way to share photos was via a good quality print:)!

[AndreaBFS]

tzal, I don't understand at all what you just said.

Are you simply confirming that yes, true color is not able to be restored upon pasting a screenshot into Photoshop?

[FlyingPhotog]

If you're copying/pasting things from the web and you're using IE then no because IE is not color managed.

Fire Fox is or at least it can be color managed but I don't honestly know if copy/paste would hold the correct color info or not.

[AndreaBFS]

No, like I said, I am taking screenshots out of FF3 with color management on. But the color does not survive that image being pasted into Photoshop. Likewise, I can't screenshot from within Photoshop and paste back into Photoshop and the image doesn't match.

Is this par for the course or is something wrong with my color settings? Can anyone who is calibrated repeat this?

[tonylong]

You're right, you can Alt/PrintScreen an image to the clipboard, then paste it into a new PS window and it has a completely different color cast, whether the original is 16 bit Adobe RGB or 8 bit sRGB.

It's gotta be the fact that Windows mangles the color space when you do that.

When, however, you do a copy and paste into either a new layer or a new document all inside of Photoshop you retain the original colors!

Good tip not to use the PrintScreen/clipboard for our images!

[AndreaBFS]

Thanks for confirming that it's not just me. That makes me feel better about my settings. I would hate to think I'm not getting my money's worth on my calibration by not setting it up properly. :)

[Wilt]

tzal, I don't understand at all what you just said.

Are you simply confirming that yes, true color is not able to be restored upon pasting a screenshot into Photoshop?


Andrea, let me try to describe it this way...the program expects to display the color (150, 110, 20) but when the color management tool for the monitor reads the screen, the program figures out that it really needs to send (155, 115, 20) to the screen because its display of color is biased wrongly. The color managed program therefore sends (155, 115, 20) whenever it wants you to see (150, 110, 20) , but the non-color managed program sends (150, 110, 20) all of the time -- but then you end up seeing a biased representation on the LCD of your computer!

Similarly the color managed program expects to print the color (150, 110, 20) but the color management tool for the printer knows that it really needs to send (156, 116, 19) to the printer because its priting of color (150, 110, 20) is biased wrongly. The color managed program therefore sends (156, 116, 19) whenever it wants you to see (150, 110, 20) on the print, but the non-color managed program sends (150, 110, 20) all of the time and you end up seeing (149, 109, 21) on the print.

[AndreaBFS]

OK, I understand HOW color management skews the colors of your display to a ratio. I get it. I didn't really ask how color management works. I asked if color management is applied to screenshots. Windows Picture Viewer IS color managed, so it would stand to reason that the clipboard uses the same technology and therefore my color SHOULD survive. Apparently it doesn't, so the question has been answered.

[Wilt]

OK, I understand HOW color management skews the colors of your display to a ratio. I get it. I didn't really ask how color management works. I asked if color management is applied to screenshots. Windows Picture Viewer IS color managed, so it would stand to reason that the clipboard uses the same technology and therefore my color SHOULD survive. Apparently it doesn't, so the question has been answered.

Yes, that is a reason why products like Huey, Spyder, and MacBeth Eye-one have sensors that sit on the monitor to profile it.

[tzalman]

A screen shot captures the image in your monitor color space without regard to what the working space of the file on your HD is and without regard to what the application sending the display has done, but doesn't create and embed a profile. Non-sRGB image and no profile to indicate that, means no color management or at best faulty c. m.

[René Damkot]

Depends on the OS: Mac OSX does color managed screenshots: They come with the monitor profile embedded. If you convert to sRGB before saving and embed the profile, all is well.

You're on Windows I guess?
Can't test, since I don't have a windows machine, but I'd think that if you *assign* your monitor profile to the screenshot in PS, it should look good. Andrea, you say "the screenshot is sRGB". That means an sRGB profile is embedded??? That would be really stupid on windows part. There should be no profile embedded, rather then the wrong one....

If a screenshot is saved without embedded profile, it should look good on Safari and FF2 on your machine. The only way to have it look good (predictable) on another machine (good only on a color managed browser), is to assign the proper (display) profile in PS, then convert to sRGB, and save with embedded profile.

(If there's no embedded profile, FF3 assumes sRGB. Safari assumes monitor profile (stupid). FF2 for instance doesn't assume anything, since it doesn't color manage ;))

[AndreaBFS]

The screenshot is sRGB in that when I paste it in Photoshop (which is the only place where I'm looking at it), I can convert it to sRGB (although that is the profile it already says it has because every new document I open uses that color space and I have to paste it into a new document in order to see it).

[tzalman]

You're on Windows I guess?
Can't test, since I don't have a windows machine, but I'd think that if you *assign* your monitor profile to the screenshot in PS, it should look good. Andrea, you say "the screenshot is sRGB". That means an sRGB profile is embedded??? That would be really stupid on windows part. There should be no profile embedded, rather then the wrong one....

Good thinking, Rene. That should work.

Andrea, PS is assuming that since the image has no profile it is sRGB and in that it is mistaken. As Rene said, if you assign (not convert) your monitor profile that will correct the mistake.

[René Damkot]

The screenshot is sRGB in that when I paste it in Photoshop (which is the only place where I'm looking at it), I can convert it to sRGB (although that is the profile it already says it has because every new document I open uses that color space and I have to paste it into a new document in order to see it).

If you create a new document, there's a dropdown menu:

http://img.skitch.com/20081108-bfn51qenkb41yqgq6andkwnqmf.jpg

If an image has no embedded profile (which is what I'd suspect of a Windows screenshot), you should get a popup warning when you open it in PS, provided you have the correct tick boxes ticked in the PS color settings (As in the link from my sig):

http://img.skitch.com/20081108-nk8x9gyrp4w9hh1g6mgkffkt5w.jpg.

If you choose the monitor profile there, all should be well, and you get this pop up if you copy paste into an sRGB document:

http://img.skitch.com/20081108-fnjmjnsd2nwmfyin6dr9tckh9a.jpg

If you copy paste from a non color managed environment (I think) (for instance when you copy -paste from windows file browser into PS if that's possible) or when you choose "do not color manage" in the second screenshot, you will *not* get a warning, nor will you get accurate colors....

[AndreaBFS]

Hmmm. It was pasting in as sRGB because that is my default. But apparently if I use the Spyder profile when pasting, that works and the colors stay true. I don't use the spyder profile in PS, though -- I've always just used sRGB. I have to use the Spyder profile, THEN convert to sRGB. Thanks! I'm glad there was an easy solution.

[René Damkot]

Hmmm. It was pasting in as sRGB because that is my default. But apparently if I use the Spyder profile when pasting, that works and the colors stay true. I don't use the spyder profile in PS, though -- I've always just used sRGB. I have to use the Spyder profile, THEN convert to sRGB. Thanks! I'm glad there was an easy solution.

Yep. This would be about the one and only time to ever use your monitor profile as a document profile (for a short while) ;)