Getting pin sharp birds? Frustrated!!

[Vulcan58]

I don't know whether it's me or the camera, but trying out the new 500L on birds in the garden, I just cannot get a pin sharp picture.
These are 1250/sec F4, ISO 400, AF mode -Al focus, centre focus (aimed at birds head) but each time I try I'm still getting slightly soft images.
Used on tripod, locked off as well & the IS turned off.
Tried the same with 'one shot' af and get the same.
I'm pretty sure the 500 is OK as this keeps happening with my 100 - 400 as well, yet the camera produces good crisp pics with all the smaller lenses (17 - 85, 24 - 105).
So where am I going wrong here please?

original
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/maypole_photos/feeder.jpg
100% crop
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/maypole_photos/feedercrop.jpg

[TATER64]

It looks like the focus is on the leaves and branches in the top 3rd of the pic.
eg can see the veins on the leaf at the very top left,
a crop in the area would probably confirm this

[Vulcan58]

Hi Tater
Here's a crop of the leaves
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/maypole_photos/feederleavescrop.jpg

Another one (no birds) 1250/sec F4, ISO 200, al focus, all AF points selected & again in AV mode.
As you can see, the focus is very hit & miss as none of the lower pic seems very sharp at all.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/maypole_photos/feederempty.jpg
crop
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/maypole_photos/feederemptycrop.jpg
The feeder is about 20ft from the camera.
Here's a robin taken just over the min focus distance.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q54/maypole_photos/robin2.jpg

[EOS_JD]

You might find that focusing with a 30D is more difficult with only 9AF points than with say a 1D with its 45.

What af point are you using?

[Vulcan58]

The first pics were using central AF point, then I thought try all 9 for the 2nd pics - which actually look worse.
The AF point was centred on the birds head in the first set, but looking at the crop it appears to be much higher up (somehow I can't get the AF points to show in ZB, otherwise I'd post the pics with the AF)
It does seem odd that I can get some real sharp pics, then on another occasion they just look rubbish.
Keep thinking it's got to be something I'm doing wrong.
I may try and borrow someone elses Canon and compare shot for shot with my 30D

[5Dmaniac]

I don't think the 30Ds lesser AF points is the issue here - there are many photographers using that combo who take great, tack sharp shots. I think it is your technique, rather than the body or the lens. I had to get used to my 500mm as well - took some time.

Here is my set-up and my technique: Gitzo CF 5 series tripod (very rigid and vibration free), Wimberley head (started out with the side kick, but pretty soon swapped for the full Wimberley), IS on the 500 is always on (either in mode 1 for your type of shots or in mode 2 for birds in flight). My left hand rests on top of the lens when I take pictures.

I use either AI Servo, or single shot AF and I typically shoot in AV mode.

Given that both your long lenses produce soft pictures, it must be your technique or you have the worst of luck and both of them don't focus correctly.

[Vulcan58]

I'm also using full wimberley head & Gitzo 3530ls tripod- (rock steady) - It's too heavy for me to hold for very long that's for sure.
Also prefer to use AV mode and normally one shot or al servo with central AF point.
The IS is off, as I'm led to believe it would do so anyway mounted on a tripod.
I guess it's probably me even tho' I'm soft on the shutter button and never 'stab' at it.
Have just taken some more which were much closer to the camera (probably 15 or 16ft max) and will post them on the Birds forum - they seem to have come out OK!!
Thanks for all the replies - we won't learn unless we ask.

[hollis_f]

These are 1250/sec F4, ISO 400, AF mode -Al focus
Aaargh! Try ignoring AI focus. It's supposed to have the advantages of AI Servo and Single-Shot. In fact it seems to combine the disadvantages of the two modes. For the sort of shots you're taking I'd stick with Single-Shot.

[Bill Boehme]

What was the shooting distance in the first image? If the bird was a significant distance way (like 50 feet for example) then there are two possible factors affecting sharpness:

the bird may not be filling enough of the frame to get a sharp image
the AF point is actually somewhat larger than the box etched on the focus screen and it tends to pick the point of sharpest contrast and not what is under the red dotI am still learning to be a decent bird photographer, but have a ways to go, but those who know what they are doing tell me that getting really close is the solution to the problem -- they seem to define "really close" as being less than 15 feet.

[Vulcan58]

Thanks for the reply Bill B.
I was thinking along the lines that the subject may have been too small to reproduce at a decent size when cropped.
Distance to the feeder was about 25 - 30ft away, yet when Itried hand held at about 16ft or so, they've come out reasonably -ish well.
Thinks to self that I must attempt to fill the frame more.

[Bill Boehme]

...Thinks to self that I must attempt to fill the frame more.

Yes, I think that is the key. So easy to say, but so difficult to do.

[Keith R]

AI Servo, centre AF Point, get closer, keep at it.

[gasrocks]

Leave the IS on when using the 500/4 on a tripod.

[Vulcan58]

Leave the IS on when using the 500/4 on a tripod.

That contradicts Canons info - that the IS will be turned off when on a tripod as the circuitry in the lens foot detects the tripod, although power will still be supplied to the IS circuit.

One thing that gets me thinking - if the foot detects a tripod, how come the IS still works with the lens plate attached, using hand held?

[hollis_f]

That contradicts Canons info - that the IS will be turned off when on a tripod as the circuitry in the lens foot detects the tripod, although power will still be supplied to the IS circuit.

One thing that gets me thinking - if the foot detects a tripod, how come the IS still works with the lens plate attached, using hand held?

The foot doesn't detect a tripod. The IS system detects when there is no movement and switches itself off.

[Vulcan58]

Guess the only way to find out is to try it.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Bill Boehme]

That contradicts Canons info - that the IS will be turned off when on a tripod as the circuitry in the lens foot detects the tripod, although power will still be supplied to the IS circuit.

One thing that gets me thinking - if the foot detects a tripod, how come the IS still works with the lens plate attached, using hand held?

Some of this information is probably forum folklore and not precisely what Canon says about IS -- at least my lens manual says when panning either hand held or on a tripod that mode 2 IS should be selected. If the tripod is locked down, then it doesn't really matter whether IS is on or off. The IS circuitry only uses significant power for a period of about two seconds after focusing or setting exposure with the * button or after a half press of the shutter. Otherwise, it is only consuming standby power.

AFAIK, there is no circuitry in the lens mounting foot -- I know that there isn't in my lens mounting foot.

[mikeivan]

Use One Shot, not AI ! I bet it cures your problem.

[andrewhuxman]

Get away from AI Focus.... useless in my opinion.

[marcoj70]

Sometimes the AF misses for some reason or other. If you manage to detect it on the viewer, try to unfocus manually a little and then refocus with the AF. It works for me with my 100-400 hand held.

[BradM]

I wouldn't use the one shot AF, in fact never have and I think I have a few sharp photos. :rolleyes:

This Pine Siskin is from about the same distance (~25') as you were shooting at, but with the 100-400mm @ 400mm which also makes me think you are under-estimating your distance, at 500mm you are holding more glass and should be filling more of the frame than this shot did.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Bradklr/apr2siskin.jpg


I use AI servo all the time for birds and wildlife, they move and are never static. Even at a feeder the bird is moving and at the distances for feeder type shots the dof even stopped down to f/8 or so is very thin, a turn of the head can take it oof.

If you are using the * button for focus it is simple thing to release the button and have it lock into place if the subject is staying still but it is so much easier to stay on the button and the subject to follow whatever move they might make.

[Roy C]

I wouldn't use the one shot AF, in fact never have and I think I have a few sharp photos. :rolleyes:

This Pine Siskin is from about the same distance (~25') as you were shooting at, but with the 100-400mm @ 400mm which also makes me think you are under-estimating your distance, at 500mm you are holding more glass and should be filling more of the frame than this shot did.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Bradklr/apr2siskin.jpg


I use AI servo all the time for birds and wildlife, they move and are never static. Even at a feeder the bird is moving and at the distances for feeder type shots the dof even stopped down to f/8 or so is very thin, a turn of the head can take it oof.

If you are using the * button for focus it is simple thing to release the button and have it lock into place if the subject is staying still but it is so much easier to stay on the button and the subject to follow whatever move they might make.
Superb shot but are you sure this has not been cropped? I have a 400mm prime and there is no way I could fill the frame with a bird this small from 25' (and the prime is said to be longer than the 100-400 at 400)

[BradM]

Yes it has been cropped, leaving about 40% from the center of the frame.

[Paul A]

Just forthe sake of discussion, which of the 3 focus range switches are you using? I have found that I need to experiment a bit at the kind of distance you are talking about to get the best AF. BTW my first long lens was the 100-400, I got some good shots with it but I never felt I mastered it, sold it bought the 400 5.6.

[Froggeh]

Maybe I'm underestimating your tripod (I don't have one) and your steadiness (I have slight tremor) but have you tried an off-camera shutter release? You could easily be getting lens tip from the shutter button, however soft you are on it.

I have that problem on a 100-400 f4L shooting from a beanbag mount on a landie, and not from a 70-300 shooting handheld!

[peat]

Looks like your 500f4 and 30d combo is front focusing to me.
Esp the robin shot.
I suggest you try a focus test on one of those test sheets to check.
My 1dmk3 and 500f4 back focused whereas my 1dmk3 and 100-400 were spot on.