Are there good and bad ED80's?

[troypiggo]

I've got an opportunity to buy this ED80 scope (http://www.yorkoptical.com.au/ProductMenus/Telescopes/tabid/42/CategoryID/364/List/1/Level/a/productid/4735/Default.aspx?SortField=UnitCost%2cProductName) like brand new in box for AU$650 (about US$415) at the moment). From my searching around Australian based astronomy sites this seems to be a pretty good price. I don't know if I can get it cheaper from US like I did (when the Aussie dollar was a bit stronger) for my camera gear.

1. Is it a good price?
2. What are some good, cheap astro gear US sites like B&H and Adorama are for photography gear?
3. Does the quality of the optics and in general look ok? I know it's a bit hard without having seen it in real life, but I mean the specs. I saw one in store the other day, and the guy in the shop recommended it over the Skywatcher one.
4. Would you go for it?

[Nighthound]

I like to see you doing you homework on this Troy. Lots of choices and many are similar in quality. I would keep an eye on that f ratio number and also ask about focal reducers /field flatteners for each model. You'll need one for imaging and you'll want to speed up those optics as much as possible to help gather light more quickly.

I'm not familiar with the brand at your link so I can't help much there.

Not sure on world wide shipping for the below retailers but here are some ideas from this side of the pond.

Here are some US outlet options:
https://www.highpointscientific.com/store/dynamicIndex.asp
https://www.highpointscientific.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=3398
https://www.highpointscientific.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=3328
https://www.highpointscientific.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1690

My personal favorite. My friend owns this scope, it's a beauty and has excellent optics.
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-765-1201-9643

I've bought most of my gear here:
http://www.optcorp.com/default.aspx

[troypiggo]

Thanks Steve. You guys get your astro and photography gear so much cheaper over there. When I look at those sites, the price of the one I mentioned isn't so much of a bargain, is it.

Of those ones you posted, I guess I was drawn to the Meade one because it's f/6, but it's only 480mm focal length.

The one your friend has is f/7 and 560mm, and the one I found is f/7.5 and 600mm.

Take the reach or the aperture or the optics? I'm a little confused, since the f/6 will gather more light but I respect your recommendation of the Stellarvue's optics.

[Nighthound]

Remember that a focal reducer/fattener will bring that f number down but also shorten the focal length a bit. I prefer shooting in the 400mm range with my Sky 90. I consider my scope's mount to be average or maybe a bit better and shooting at 400mm makes my nights easier. When I think of an 80mm scope I think of a scope meant for large deep sky objects like The Rosette Nebula, Heart Nebula, M31 for example or multiple objects you want to get together in one frame like galaxy groups. Not a great planetary scope, not a great small object scope at all, but it can produce some beautiful wider views of the sky that I've come to really enjoy shooting and looking at. Once you've mastered lower focal length imaging then look into shooting at higher focal length and getting those smaller objects at a scale that shows off those subtle details. Of course that'll mean a mount upgrade to pull it off without making you crazy.

I would gladly add any Stellarvue optics to my collection. The company owner individually scrutinizes each scope before it leaves the manufacturing site. They have a VERY solid reputation for quality. IMO you won't find a better 80ED for imaging in this price range anywhere.

A bit of a correction, my friend went with the upgrade version($999 US) The Feathertouch focuser is a work of art. I had one on my old LX200.
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-765-1201-9645

[troypiggo]

Thanks again, Steve. Your experience and helpful, informative posts here are invaluable. They'll either save me a lot of money by not making too many mistakes with bad buys, or they'll cost me a lot of money buying better gear :)

I just noticed a big "oops" in my first post. I said that scope I found was AU$650, which is about US$1010. That's completely incorrect, I did the conversion the wrong way. It is of course only US$415.

If the only difference between those 2 Stellarvue scopes you mention is the focuser, is it worth US$300 to a newbie like me? I would think the first one you posted would be more than sufficient.

PS - I'm thinking of getting an EQ6 (or equivalent capacity) type mount. That should be more than enough for an ED80, and I think also for a bigger scope like a 9.25" Schmidt Cassegrain. Expect a post soon about this :)

PPS - I am also thinking about creating a thread in here verbalising what I'm going through in my research from a beginner's point of view - hoping it will help someone else in their searches.

[Nighthound]

Did I forget to mention astrophotography is a slippery slope? Yes, that burning plastic smell is your credit card. :D

You're welcome Troy. Your idea on a beginner's point of view is excellent. I know how many questions and mysteries this hobby can present starting out and anything any of us can do, whatever level we are at to help minimize the difficulty for beginners is great. Deciding on equipment alone can really be stressful. It's easy to get to a point of being unable to make a choice from information overload. Hopefully we'll continue to build a knowledge base like we have already and collectively become a great place for all interested to come for assistance.

[ebann]

Here's a tip from my experience. If you are starting off with astronomy, it is important to get the best quality affordable *AND* make it a convenient kit. If the mount is too heavy, too complicated, and the telescope cumbersome and large, you'll find yourself using it just a few times, even less so when you consider packing, carrying, traveling, unpacking, building, aligning, etc.

This said, you picked a good sized telescope with a good design (refractor). Your mount is overkill for an 80mm refractor. A CG-4 is more than capable to handle it (and is already quite heavy). If you plan to use the mount with the telescope *AND* a camera, then the CG-5 would be a better match.

Keep in mind that a good mount is extremely important for good astro photos. People pay thousand of dollars for the most solid mount they can afford.

Also keep in mind that you don't need extremely long focal length to enjoy astrophotography. A DSLR with a 50mm f/1.8 on an equatorial mount (EQ3 or EQ4) will give you beautiful images of the sky.

My first scope was a TeleVue Ranger (it's a semi-APO refractor) and a CG-4 mount (the old model with aluminum legs). I used a dovetail adapter from Ken Dauzat's website to easily attach the Ranger or my 40D+lens (or 1Ds+lens). I also bought Celestron's NexImage CCD imager for planetary shots, but mainly for polar alignment using WCS software (cheap). Aligning the scope is very important, and making it simple and quick is the formula for a happy astro experience.

Another tidbit: I plan to use my Ranger as a guiding scope for my DSLR. I plan to buy a saddle adapter for my mount so that I can put the Ranger *AND* DSLR parallel to each other. I might have to upgrade my mount to the CG-5 to handle that extra weight. The Ranger+DSLR+lens is about 4-5 kgs.

Using DSLR+lens is more convenient than using DSLR+telescope because you avoid using T-Ring and T-adapter. Live View on the DSLR helps a lot! Put it in 10x mode and you can easily get focus rather quickly.

[troypiggo]

Hi ebann,

I'm kind of torn at this juncture. I'm aware that the EQ6 is overkill for an ED80, but I was planning for the future a little. I am the sort of person who'd rather spend a little more for the better quality stuff up front, but at the moment I'd have trouble justifying buying this gear now and would have to wait until mid to late next year to sell the idea to my wife.

So just this morning I had a "bright" idea. I could get the cheaper ED80 mentioned in my original post[1], and a lighter/cheaper mount like the CG5 or EQ5 or thereabouts. I could probably do that for half the cost I guess. The downside would probably be that I couldn't put a bigger scope on that mount.

But, if and when I decide to upgrade to a bigger/better scope, I could get the bigger mount then, and keep the smaller scope and mount. Then we'd have 2 mounts and 2 scopes - while I'm using one of them, my wife could use the other. She's into this also.

Good idea? I like it because it gets me up and running sooner, and when we know a little more we'll have a better idea of what we want.

[1] While I appreciate Nighthound/Steve's suggestion of that quality ED80, and I'm not ignoring his excellent advice deliberately, I am thinking that the price of the one on offer is too good to pass up. I reckon I could sell it if/when I decide to upgrade to a better quality one and not lose too much money, or just keep it and piggyback it or something.

[ebann]

Hi ebann,

I'm kind of torn at this juncture. I'm aware that the EQ6 is overkill for an ED80, but I was planning for the future a little. I am the sort of person who'd rather spend a little more for the better quality stuff up front, but at the moment I'd have trouble justifying buying this gear now and would have to wait until mid to late next year to sell the idea to my wife.

At 36 kgs just the mount, you'd hate to lug that thing around... but if you can afford it, better get it now than later. But if you decide later on that astronomy is not your kind of thing, you just over spent.

So just this morning I had a "bright" idea. I could get the cheaper ED80 mentioned in my original post[1], and a lighter/cheaper mount like the CG5 or EQ5 or thereabouts. I could probably do that for half the cost I guess. The downside would probably be that I couldn't put a bigger scope on that mount.

Depends on what bigger scope you are planning to get later on. My EQ3-2 (which is identical to Celestron's CG-4, and Orion's AstroView; older versions with aluminum legs) originally came with a 6" Newtonian reflector. That's way bigger than my tiny 70mm refractor. Obviously, refractors weighs significantly more. Bigger refractors will cost you an arm and a leg, so it's better to get them small and then LATER use them as guiding scopes on top of a reflectors or Cassegrains.

If you plan to do that, you'd better start off with the EQ6.

But, if and when I decide to upgrade to a bigger/better scope, I could get the bigger mount then, and keep the smaller scope and mount. Then we'd have 2 mounts and 2 scopes - while I'm using one of them, my wife could use the other. She's into this also.

Good idea? I like it because it gets me up and running sooner, and when we know a little more we'll have a better idea of what we want.

It really depends what you want to do. I'm assuming you want to do astrophotography with your DSLR at prime focus (i.e. use the scope as a lens). What is your wife going to do? If she just wants to view the sky, a really solid mount is not required. I love using my 70mm refractor on top of a normal tripod with an Alt-Azi mount (TeleVue Up-Swing which is similar to a Wimberly head). I scan the sky very quickly. When I'm really lazy, I just grab my nice 50x10 binoculars and head out of the door.

[1] While I appreciate Nighthound/Steve's suggestion of that quality ED80, and I'm not ignoring his excellent advice deliberately, I am thinking that the price of the one on offer is too good to pass up. I reckon I could sell it if/when I decide to upgrade to a better quality one and not lose too much money, or just keep it and piggyback it or something.

The good brands are:

Takahashi
William Optics
TeleVue
Meade
Celestron

I'm not aware of your particular model. Go to www.cloudynights.com forum and see if someone knows about it.

[troypiggo]

Cheers and thanks for your thoughts.

[troypiggo]

Sorry guys. How about these ED80's :

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-602-900-8146
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-602-900-3355

Seem like good value? But no comparison to the Stellarvue for US$300 more? What's a crayford style focuser? Is that good or bad?

[Adrena1in]

Sorry guys. How about these ED80's :

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-602-900-8146
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-602-900-3355

Seem like good value? But no comparison to the Stellarvue for US$300 more? What's a crayford style focuser? Is that good or bad?

Now you've got me looking!! I know that Crayford focussers are meant to be good, especially the dual-speed ones. I've got single-speed Crayfords on my scopes, but they're all I have experience of really, (other than the naff focusser on my Orion ST80).

[ebann]

Sorry guys. How about these ED80's :

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-602-900-8146
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-600-602-900-3355

Seem like good value? But no comparison to the Stellarvue for US$300 more? What's a crayford style focuser? Is that good or bad?

That's a NICE shop! Those are two good refractors. There are two types: Achromat, which means that chromatic aberration is controlled but will show its ugly head at higher magnifications (~150x and up); and the more expensive Apochromat which virtually has CA eliminated. It has to do with glass quality. The use of ED glass makes it a semi-APO. Fluoro glass are what makes it APO.

The "Celestron Onyx 80EDF - 80mm f/6.25 Fluoro-ED Refractor Telescope" looks very much like my Ranger and will definitely serve you well.

The Rolls-Royce refractor is definitely the "FS-60C - 2.36" f/5.9 Fluorite Refractor OTA 60mm f/5.9 Fluorite APO refractor yields beautiful views. Perfect for eclipses, as well as astrophotography, birding, travel...just about anything!"

Stellarvue and Borg are two other good brands.

I'd get the Onyx 80EDF because it is cheaper than the 80ED and it's APO! Don't ask me why... ask the store!

Crap... now I'm starting to feel that I want one too!

[troypiggo]

Thanks guys. In the 9 hours since my last post I have negotiated quite a sweet deal IMO. Let me know what you think. It's second hand, but the mount and ED100 are less than a year old, and the ED80 is only 2 years old.

Skywatcher ED100 (original blue color not gold)
Skywatcher ED80 (gold) with finderscope
Skywatcher HEQ5-Pro SynScan with Go-To
Mogg 0.66 focal reducer
Phillips 900NC guide cam
Shoestring Astronomy GPUSB guiding adaptor
Dew heaters (homemade with PWM controller)
Canon EOS adaptor
Adjustable guidescope rings

and he threw in an old second hand laptop to guide it all with. How much you reckon for all that? :)

[ebann]

Thanks guys. In the 9 hours since my last post I have negotiated quite a sweet deal IMO. Let me know what you think. It's second hand, but the mount and ED100 are less than a year old, and the ED80 is only 2 years old.

Skywatcher ED100 (original blue color not gold)
Skywatcher ED80 (gold) with finderscope
Skywatcher HEQ5-Pro SynScan with Go-To
Mogg 0.66 focal reducer
Phillips 900NC guide cam
Shoestring Astronomy GPUSB guiding adaptor
Dew heaters (homemade with PWM controller)
Canon EOS adaptor
Adjustable guidescope rings

and he threw in an old second hand laptop to guide it all with. How much you reckon for all that? :)

I'd guess you paid between USD$1000-1,500. If you said sweet deal, I'd believe it more like USD$1000.

[Nighthound]

The Rolls-Royce refractor is definitely the "FS-60C - 2.36" f/5.9 Fluorite Refractor OTA 60mm f/5.9 Fluorite APO refractor yields beautiful views. Perfect for eclipses, as well as astrophotography, birding, travel...just about anything!"


Love mine, only thing I like better is my Sky 90. They make a great pair side by side.

[ebann]

Love mine, only thing I like better is my Sky 90. They make a great pair side by side.

:mad: Yea, yea! I saw your rig... I can only dream of spending that much and still keep my marriage!

I'm keeping my Ranger as a future guiding scope... but I *WILL* have my Sky 90 someday!

[Nighthound]

:mad: Yea, yea! I saw your rig... I can only dream of spending that much and still keep my marriage!

I'm keeping my Ranger as a future guiding scope... but I *WILL* have my Sky 90 someday!


I've yet to post a pic of the 60 and 90 side by side (haven't taken one yet, need to), so you may be thinking of another rig. Not a brag, simply stating my opinion of these two optical tubes.

[Nighthound]

Thanks guys. In the 9 hours since my last post I have negotiated quite a sweet deal IMO. Let me know what you think. It's second hand, but the mount and ED100 are less than a year old, and the ED80 is only 2 years old.

Skywatcher ED100 (original blue color not gold)
Skywatcher ED80 (gold) with finderscope
Skywatcher HEQ5-Pro SynScan with Go-To
Mogg 0.66 focal reducer
Phillips 900NC guide cam
Shoestring Astronomy GPUSB guiding adaptor
Dew heaters (homemade with PWM controller)
Canon EOS adaptor
Adjustable guidescope rings

and he threw in an old second hand laptop to guide it all with. How much you reckon for all that? :)

Lots of necessities in that package. Seen any pics of it yet?

[troypiggo]

Only this one

http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/00_equipment/astro/purchase.jpg

[troypiggo]

I'd guess you paid between USD$1000-1,500. If you said sweet deal, I'd believe it more like USD$1000.

Are you insane?! Did you not read everything that was on the list?! And there was a laptop in there as well! :cool:

Yeah, you're pretty spot on :)

[Nighthound]

Very, very nice. Image with the gold, guide with the blue?

Steve

[troypiggo]

Guess so - haven't even got it yet, so might be getting a little ahead of myself but I can't wait. Feels like Christmas is coming early :)

[troypiggo]

I've got something in the mail. I've got something in the maaaaaaiiiiiil! I've got...
<jumping up and down clapping /> :D :D

Down side - we're having some of the worst weather in years here at the moment. Big storms, flooding, rain, lightning, clouds. Not really condusive to astro unfortunately. But still...

I've got something in the maaaaaiiiiiiil! :D

[FarmerDave8N]

Down side - we're having some of the worst weather in years here at the moment.

aka "The Curse" - congrats. :)

[ebann]

I've been having rain and clouds for the past 2 weeks...

[renderwerks]

I've got something in the maaaaaiiiiiiil! :D

Ha ha, I know the feeling exactly! :D I followed my new stuff online daily till it showed up!

Congratulations!

[screxer]

I've got something in the mail. I've got something in the maaaaaaiiiiiil! I've got...
<jumping up and down clapping /> :D :D

Down side - we're having some of the worst weather in years here at the moment. Big storms, flooding, rain, lightning, clouds. Not really condusive to astro unfortunately. But still...

I've got something in the maaaaaiiiiiiil! :D

All telescopes come packaged with material that instantly causes clouds when the box is opened....you'll learn that over time...haha!

[ebann]

How about some update on your mail??? Please post pics of your rig!

[troypiggo]

The guy I bought it off only mailed it Thursday, I think. So I should receive it Tuesday-ish. Bit disappointed. Private sale. He took a week to post it after I had paid him.

Don't worry. It will be plainly obvious when I have it in my hot, sweaty little hands. You'll be bombarded with questions and carp images. :)

[troypiggo]

It arrived! Looks great. Heavier than I expected. Unfortunately got things on tonight, so won't get to play with it for another couple of nights. That's all, Troy out. Just dropped in to brag. :)

[siddr20]

Any updates on this? Any pics??

Where did you buy those items from??

[troypiggo]

I've been meaning to takes pics of the rig, but haven't yet. Weather has also been lousy, cloudy night after cloudy night. What few acceptable nights I've had have been taken learning the gear, aligning, tracking etc.

I have had one, yes one, photo session with it. This was my humble effort. I have much improvement to make, got some ideas, just need the weather...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/3195922587_8013d4611a.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/3195922587_2ef3828fa6_o.jpg)

I bought is used from a guy at the IceInSpace forums (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/index.php).