(looking for a) New Ball Head . . .

[RJSorensen]

I am in the market for a new ball head. I have been using the Bogen pistol grips on tripods to this point, and they have worked just wonderfully. The weight of the Canon 100-400 is causing some 'creep' and I have tightened up the adjuster to the point that it is time to look for something else. I would like a nice product but have limited access to 'real world' products. I am the only one I know that shoots anything other than 'snapshots.'

I see there are real ball heads that look like they would take the weight of my dream 3Kmm lens, lol, at some point. I need something that is fast to pan on bids on the wing and yet will setup fast for 'Rock Steady' shots as well.

What do you guys use and what would you recommend for me. I have a Bogen 3001, 3033 & monopod now, all with the pistol grip noted. Link attached: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=5558&is=REG

So please share what you like and what you don't, share your dream head with me and then something that a fellow can afford.

[robertwgross]

If you are trying to shoot flying birds with a long lens, then you almost need a Wimberly head, or something close to that.

---Bob Gross---

[CyberDyneSystems]

Robert has a point,. but the Wimberly (and the sort of similar Manfrotto) are huge "gimble mount" heads, and not much use for anything but huge lenses.

A good solid "normal" ballhead will solve a lot of your problems,. and many will in fact handle the weight of a huge tele prime,. although they won't be as fast to use as a Gimble mount.

Bogen/manfrottos larger ballheads will do the job, as will Acratech, Kirk, RRS, Arca, Graf, Giottos etc..

Check the Tripod "sticky" in "Talk about Photography" .. there is quite a little treasure trove there.

[robertwgross]

I keep thinking about this, and I never get to the point of starting it, but I've been interested in constructing my own gimbal-type head for a long lens (a 100-400). Instead of making it "single-sided" like a Wimberly, I've thought of making it symmetrical with the lens hanging inverted. <sigh> But I would have to find some metal-working tools and a brake bar and some moderately hard alloy metal.

---Bob Gross---

[bballboy30]

Bob,

Instead of making one you could buy a Bogen/Manfrotto 3421 Head for about $150.

Alex

[scottbergerphoto]

Bob,

Instead of making one you could buy a Bogen/Manfrotto 3421 Head for about $150.

Alex
Ya beat me to it!
Scott

[Scottes]

I've got a Bogen 490RC4 which is a monster ballhead with tension control. I like it a lot, despite it's size, and use it all the time with my 100-400. It's never failed, and does things almost perfectly. $170.

The Acratech Ultimate ballhead is pretty darn close to perfect I'd say, after having checked out IanD's. It's sweet. But another $100...plus an Arca-type QR plate... That's almost twice the price.

The Bogen gimbal, though inexpensive, is a monster that I just can't justify. It's just too big. If they came out with a model 1/2 or even 2/3 the size I might reconsider. It really is big.

[Rokkorfan]

I just got the Markins M10 ballhead after a lot of research, and I can't rave about it enough. It is a fantastic head, rated by many as better than Arca-swiss, and with no delays in delivery (unlike the RRS heads with waits of 6 weeks or so). Cost was $310, and it is worth every penny.

[RJSorensen]

I hate to share my lack of knowledge & information on such . . . but I only know of RC2 Bogen plates. What are these RC4 and or RC5 systems. Are they better? I just looked up Scottes 490RC4 head and thus found he is using a different attachment plate as well. If I am up to a 'better' head perhaps I should look for a better attachment method(s) as well. Everything I own is now RC2 X three heads.

CDS thanks for the point to the sticky thread as well. You are the Best. It seems to be a brave new world out there for one as me tucked away in the back waters of the world, let alone high tech photo gear.

My thanks to all whom are able to help and or point me toward a system that will 'steady up' my much improved Canon gear.

[robertwgross]

Instead of making one you could buy a Bogen/Manfrotto 3421 Head for about $150.

Excellent. Send me the cash and I will get right on it.

---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

Excellent. Send me the cash and I will get right on it.

---Bob Gross---

I cannot recall such an unselfish gesture. Bob, you are a prince of a guy.

[Scottes]

The RC4 plates are quite large - they seem like they're more for medium or large format. They're really big.

If I could have gotten the 490 with RC2 I'd be happier. (Not that I'm sad, but the RC4 is a little too big sometimes.)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Bob,.. I don't have the cash,. so I think your Idea is better,. You build me one! :lol:

[Mike Panic]

check my review of bogen's grip action ball head: http://www.iphotoforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12527

[robertwgross]

Bob,.. I don't have the cash,. so I think your Idea is better,. You build me one! :lol:

I could make it out of anodized black metal, or I could paint it L white and charge triple for it.

---Bob Gross---

[Belmondo]

I thought about having Bob build me a head, but in the meantime, I bought one of these (http://acratech.net/) used from one of the forum members. It is a beautiful thing. This is going to make a good companion for the Wimberly.

[RJSorensen]

Thanks so much for the tips, links, and stickies. Buying is at least half the fun . . . and at the end one gets to 'choose.' I want a Gwen Stefani 'Rock Steady' ball head, lol.

This is a lot like a NASA moon shot of old. Rounding up all the proper gear to make the 'perfect' shot.

Thanks.

[musthavemuzk]

I thought about having Bob build me a head, but in the meantime, I bought one of these (http://acratech.net/) used from one of the forum members. It is a beautiful thing. This is going to make a good companion for the Wimberly.

so what setup do you use for your train shots?
the wimberly? if so it is needed or overkill?

Monty

[Europa]

Markins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MarkoPolo]

I sure like my Kirk BH-3 and I use it with a 10D, battery grip and the 100-400 all the time. It is "rock solid" and stays where I put it, for about $240 pluse Arca style plates. Having said that, I hear a lot of good things about the Acratech and I might get one for the Gitzo 1228CF that I have on my "wish" list when I can save up enough. The Acratech is reported to be as stable as the Kirk, but is lighter. Hope this helps.

[Belmondo]

so what setup do you use for your train shots?
the wimberly? if so it is needed or overkill?

Monty

In my opinion, the Wimberly is nearly essential on very large lenses. Its main asset is the ability to balance the camera/lens. If properly setup, you can allow the lens to 'hang' in just about any attitude without having to tighten the friction knob.

Since the vast majority of trains I photograph are moving, having the ability to pan and change attitude easily is pretty important.

BTW, I'm now changing over to Arca/Swiss compatible heads on everything. I don't believe it's any better than the Manfrotto/Bogen quick release systems, but I want complete interchangeability among all my equipment.

[musthavemuzk]

thank you belmondo. i think i have mentioned before that i grew up around trains. so i will prolly give them a go in time.
now these wimberly products...are they common at camera shops? as i would like to see and play with one. all i have seen around me so far is bogen, some gitzo, velbon (sp).
i had decided on bogen 3021BPRO legs but not on a head yet. but since i am still confused and such i am far from set in stone on legs and head.

what is considered a large lens? 400, 500, 1-400, 70-200 IS
as i am pretty sure i will end up with one of the latter 2, but not sure if i can justify the 4 or 5 though it would be nice.

as for interchangebility...can ou explain this a bit more please?

i see that bodies have a socket with 1/4-20 threads for tripod use.
is there another thread used by some makers?
can i put a gitzo head on bogen legs?

thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

Monty

[CyberDyneSystems]

The lenses that are large enough to absolutely "require" a gimble head are the 500mm primes and larger,. but lenses like the 300mm f/2.8 or 200mm f/1.8 will certainly benifit as well.

What a Gimble mount gives you that NO other head will give you no matter what the size lens is though,. is the speed and fluidity of motion that otherwise is only availble when hand held. So some people will use much lightere,. hand holdable lenses with a gimble,. as it will take the weight, let you move fast and yet still offer tripod stability and reduce camera shake dramatically over hand held.

Nothing let's you move that fast with as much stability.

All heads and tripods will work together.

[Belmondo]

as for interchangebility...can ou explain this a bit more please?
I use quick release mounting plates whevever possible. I never screw the tripod directly into a camera or lens. I want to be able to use any tripod with any lens/camera. At present, I have the Arca/Swiss system on the Wimberly mount and one other tripod with an Acratech ball head. I also have the Bogen/Manfrotto heads on another tripod and my monopod. I am currently replacing all the Bogen/Manfrotto heads with Arca/Swiss compatible units.


i see that bodies have a socket with 1/4-20 threads for tripod use.
is there another thread used by some makers?
Just about every camera/lens uses 1/4"-20 threads. Most heads mount to the tripod with 3/8"-16 threads. You can't usually screw a camera directly onto a set of legs without an adapter or some kind of head.


can i put a gitzo head on bogen legs?

As long as they both have the above-mentioned 3/8"-16 thread. Otherwise, an adapter will be required.

[RJSorensen]

I was hoping this thread would get down to brass tacks . . .

[musthavemuzk]

and i thank you for the responses.

not that it makes my decision any easier, but at least i can make an informed one now.
until i can think of more questions to ask.

Monty

[Moses]

The information in this thread is very helpful. This is a perfect example why I hang around here so much! :)

[rssfhs]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I just took the plunge today and ordered an Acratech ball head. It seems like kind of an overkill for my Drebel, but I guess in a few years I will have a better camera and then at least I won't need to get a new ball head to match it.

[Belmondo]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I just took the plunge today and ordered an Acratech ball head. It seems like kind of an overkill for my Drebel, but I guess in a few years I will have a better camera and then at least I won't need to get a new ball head to match it.

You're goint to love it. The overall look, feel, and quality are impressive.

[Moses]

I just got the Markins M10 ballhead after a lot of research, and I can't rave about it enough. It is a fantastic head, rated by many as better than Arca-swiss, and with no delays in delivery (unlike the RRS heads with waits of 6 weeks or so). Cost was $310, and it is worth every penny.
Rokkorfan: Can you tell me where you bought the Markins? I have read a lot of good things about the Markins M10. It's not widely available outside of South Korea, is it?

[radar-eclipse]

The Kirk heads RULE! However, I use a quick fix from RRS that cost a few dollars and use it with larger lenses on my monopod. See the link for reference on "Optimize your monopod".

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/projects/index.html

[CyberDyneSystems]

Rokkorfan: Can you tell me where you bought the Markins? I have read a lot of good things about the Markins M10. It's not widely available outside of South Korea, is it?


Markins has FINALLY got there asct together with a North American Distributor.
http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA3/about.php

[Moses]

Markins has FINALLY got there asct together with a North American Distributor.
http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA3/about.phpOK, this is great, but do I need to buy a plate and tripod base in addition to the head? That would be about another 120 dollars on top of the 379 for the ball head.

[CyberDyneSystems]

You'd want a plate or plates,. not sure but I would think that the head comes with one plate?

Tripod base? No,. you don't need that... it just looks like additional unnecesary weight to me.

[RJSorensen]

Well I found a Bogen head I liked, one with hydraulic locking for $275 or so . . . but it went out of stock. SO I ordered a Bogen horizontal pistol grip and flipped it for left hand (I am right handed) operation and I just love this combo on top of my Bogen 3033 tripod. I stuck the surplus Bogen vertical pistol grip on top of the Bogen monopod I ordered at the same time. One of the quick pull down ones.

All is well in Tin Cup as far as tripod gear and such for the time being. If I ever get to Denver or Reno or a big city I would like to see 'nicer' ballheads in person. For my next rig. Or . . . I might just get what Tom gets to replace his.

Thanks everyone for the help and such on this.

[eosster]

Markins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ditto, you will never regret it. :lol::lol::lol:

[DwightMcCann]

Why am I suffering along with a Bogen 3021/3030? Oh, because I don't yet shoot wildlife! :-)

[MarkoPolo]

RJ, you won't see much in Denver! I have been to practically every camera shop and the availability of tripods and heads is awful! That's the reason I comment that buying tripods and heads is the hardest decision. I can make good choices on cameras and lenses without ever actually using one, but tripods and heads are such "hands-on" things that you just "pays your money and takes your chances."

[RJSorensen]

LOL, yes Mark . . . I am glad to know another whom feels the pain of living in the red states. We just don't have access to the better photo goods and or services. Not even in two days drive. Salt Lake City is dismal as well, as far as I can find. Filled with Ritz and Nik*n gear. Low end Bogen and worse.

I do like my new grip however and I can not see the ground quiver through the lens with the 100-400 and 1.4 TC anymore. This is good. I was able to get a pan shot the other day with it as well. That was a plus.

I wonder how much grain, hay, and oats it would take to get to SanFrancisco? At petro going for $2.50/gal I am going to need to ride the nag.

[Maureen Souza]

I wonder how much grain, hay, and oats it would take to get to SanFrancisco? At petro going for $2.50/gal I am going to need to ride the nag.

Ain't that the horrid truth?

[I Simonius]

A complete newbie to balheads but having read all I could I went for the RRS BH-40

Couldn't be more pleased with it, very very well engineered, very well thought out:cool:

[Doctor Diesel]

Simon, may I ask where in the uk did you get the rrs head ?...thanks

[DavidW]

I think the only option for RRS, along with certain other "premium" American brands such as Newton Brackets and Custom Brackets, also the wonderful range of CopperHill cleaning products, WhiBal products and the POTN store, all of which are are only available from the US (direct from the company for RRS, CopperHill, WhiBal and the POTN store, or from a couple of big US distributors in the case of the flash bracket companies), is to order from abroad.

You may happen to find what you're looking for in the UK, but I don't believe there's any stockists - it's simply a case of finding very occasional second hand sales. Most people that have these products tend to hang on to them.


Don't forget to allow for about 25% charges when the package hits the UK. That's somewhere between 0 and 6.5% duty (most camera gear is around 3.5%, lenses are nearer 6.5% though I forget the exact rates). 17.5% VAT is then charged on the purchase price, shipping and duty. Finally, the postal or courier service usually adds a brokerage fee for settling up with Customs for you and billing you later (often something around £7.50).

Your credit card company will likely also add a charge - these days, there tends not to be a service charge for foreign currency transactions, but most card issuers push the Visa or Mastercard exchange rate a further 2.5% or so in their favour as a commission. PayPal tends to be a bit worse than Visa or Mastercard - has anyone found a way of telling PayPal to bill a UK issued credit card in US dollars rather than apply their own exchange rate which tends to be worse than the card issuer's rate?


I have had packages that are a bit over the limit for being duty free (up to around US$65 value) come in free of charge via the postal system, but have always been charged on packages coming in via couriers. I recently had a US$65 package come in from CopperHill via USPS Global Express (which is transferred to ParcelForce 24 when it reaches the UK), and I haven't been charged anything yet, despite a full Customs declaration being attached. It is possible to get a bill up to a couple of months later (FedEx did that to me once - the package was delivered without any mention of charges but I was later sent an invoice, which I had allowed for but expected sooner), but there was no sign of any Customs labels or stamps anywhere on the CopperHill box. In the last year, I've also had a WhiBal and and a couple of small packages from the POTN store come in via the postal service - none have had any charges applied.


I'm thinking of ordering a Newton bracket, and will probably order from B&H and ask them to send USPS Global Express. I'll budget on paying 25% in charges, nevertheless. At the moment, it is relatively advantageous to order from the States, as the dollar is quite weak (it's around £1 = $1.89), but I still only order from abroad if there's no UK supplier. The next best thing to ordering from the UK is ordering from elsewhere in the EU, as there's no VAT or duty to pay on intra-community trade.



David

[Belmondo]

Wow. I guess we really are spoiled over here. I still wince when I think about the time the Canadian government tried to extort $70 out of a POTN member when they tried to ship Nifty #1 there on a leg of his world odyssey. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1419434&postcount=381

On top of that, they returned him in pieces. (RIP, Nifty #1:( ).

[Doctor Diesel]

well, I just splashed on a kirk bh-3 and camera plate....anyone want to buy an as-new manfrotto fluid head???

[I Simonius]

Simon, may I ask where in the uk did you get the rrs head ?...thanks

I ordered it direct from the RRS site

I don't think there is an UK distributor
I got my Tripod from warehouseexpress.com

Posted a mni review of both here:
http://www.digitalgrin.com/showpost.php?p=368825&postcount=14

[I Simonius]

Don't forget to allow for about 25% charges when the package hits the UK. That's somewhere between 0 and 6.5% duty (most camera gear is around 3.5%, lenses are nearer 6.5% though I forget the exact rates). 17.5% VAT is then charged on the purchase price, shipping and duty. Finally, the postal or courier service usually adds a brokerage fee for settling up with Customs for you and billing you later (often something around £7.50).<snip>

David
yeah you do have to budget a bit more for various charges, but I doesn't work out that much and IMO is very much worth it to get the RRS gear (yes - you can tell I'm impressed with it - and I used to be an engineer!)

The only thing I object to is Parcel force taking £13 for collecting it from customs 0 cheeky blighters, but there you are everyone is on the make... (Don't get me started on that one! let me tell you just what I think about speed traps, parking tickets, etc!!!! nanny state etc,:evil: .......:evil: ) :lol:

[Doctor Diesel]

Thanks, I went with the kirk head BH-3 as I wanted a wee one!

will get some rss plates from the states though

many thanks

[I Simonius]

Thanks, I went with the kirk head BH-3 as I wanted a wee one!

will get some rss plates from the states though

many thanks

I think RRS do a smaller BH too;)

[Doctor Diesel]

needed it for this weekend and warehouse express can deliver to me tomorrow....oh well, I hear the kirk ones are pretty good too.