Wedding - Don't want to interfere with the Pro, but what to do?.....

[Yannis_l72]

I am an enthusiast photographer with a passion for photography. I am not a full-time Pro and I am not considering becoming one.
I respect all aspects of the Pros work.

Well, here comes my first photo-dilemma! ...
Due to my photo work (check my website at http://www.larios.gr - portrait photos are not there though!)
ALL and I mean ALL my lady family-friends, colleagues etc. bound to get married want me to shoot their weddings (talking about 6 requests already for year 2009).

Bear in mind that a large percentage of Pros shooting weddings here in Greece, just do the "typical" stuff, no glamour aspects whatsoever, and in some cases the results are ... well plain dull and unimaginative, artistically speaking.

I have told my lady-friends that I will not be shooting weddings (despite having the equipment) and they should leave it to the Pro. But they are insisting....

They propose that they hire the Pro just to be safe for capturing Uncle-Joe, and that I am the guy who takes all the "artsy" photos before the wedding (the Pros don't do it that often), during the wedding and probably the day after at a different setting.

I tell them that they should inform the Pro guy before booking him about that, if I am to be the "second" photographer .

What do you suggest that I do?

Thanks in advance,
Yannis

[chadp23]

I say go for it dude bust your cherry and welcome to the inspirational side- I think you would do well or you can get me to come in and shoot with you.

http://www.sobitartphotography.com

[ooo]

It seems Yannis is from Greece and you are from the states Chad.

I was actually just having this discussion with my friend yesterday. I'm not a wedding photographer by a fashion photographer. Basically there was a photographer at a show yesterday shooting for a designer. I, on the other hand, work for the newspaper where the event was being held. He wanted to stand right in the middle, me and several other people wanted him to kneel down, because he was blocking the audience and several other photographers. This is how I got into the wedding discussion. I was explaining to my friend that I think since the pro is paid, you should just try to stay out of their way and do your own thing. I mean if the pro is in one side of the room you can go to the other side. If the pro wants to do a family portrait, you shouldn't run up next to him and start shooting until he's finished. The thing is usually half the people look into one camera and the other half look into the other messing up the shot for both of you.

[tim]

Go for it, but until you're sure you can do it make sure there's a pro to capture the important shots. If you're both there stay out of his way, make sure he knows you'll be there in advance, and have little word at the start of the day telling him you'll stay out of his way.

[Vascilli]

Work with the pro to come up with a good solution. Seeing as the images each of you will be taking will be totally different they shouldn't have a problem with you being around.

I suggest you do your best to stay out of his way, remember he's at that wedding because he wants to eat..

[amfoto1]

Why don't you charge and be the pro... Sounds like you have the skills. Then, if you don't want to deal with the candids, you can hire a second shooter to handle those.

[rooeey]

Go on do it you know you want to...
But i must say IMO you are up for it if your photos are any proof great work...
May i also ask is that soft pastel look an in camera or PP result like the one looking through the old car windscreen ..I really like it...

[TheHoff]

I would tell the brides to hire another photographer but to explain to that pro that another 'pro' will be on-site shooting a different style of photography. That way you are considered to be on the same level and will have the same access to the couple. If the other person thinks they are the only professional, you will have to step aside and let them take control.

If the brides want you and you don't want to shoot it all, make them take the arrangement you want -- shoot the glamour style you like and let another pro do the group shots. A true professional would put aside their ego, take the job, and work with you and not against you.

[sapearl]

Yannis, your landscape work is beautiful. Use that same creative attention to detail at weddings and events and you should do well.

[ozziepuppy]

Yannis, Your site is beautiful. You are much more talented than many professional photographers. May I ask how you did the slideshows and uploaded them? I am curious as to what software you used and how you were able to put them into your website. I made a slideshow for a friend and so far I have been unable to show it to her because of its size (it crashed my email, for example). I am just trying to figure out how to do this. I apologize if this is too off-topic. Thanks.

[ozziepuppy]

Personally I think you should be the professional photographer. . .

[blackshadow]

Yannis - why don't you take on the role of pro and organise one of the boring pros you mention to be your second shooter to cover safe shots?

[MsLitch]

My contract doesn't allow the bride to have a second shooter present paid or unpaid. It states directly that I am the only photographer. I explain to them that Uncle Joe is free to take photographs when I am not and explain how another photographer's flash can ruin an image. I also explain to them what it looks like to have a second photographer in all the photographs because we are not working together.

With that in mind I'd say go be the pro. Get paid. Explain to them what they can expect if they hire you and remind them if they want the other photos they should hire a different pro.

If you don't have the time or energy to become the pro might I suggest they hire a pro for their wedding day and hire you to do a bridal portrait shoot the day after or the day before. It is quite common.

[ozziepuppy]

Actually the day before or the day after sound like good suggestions.

[Alleh]

I also think you should take the role of the pro shooter and then just hire another photographer as a second shooter. You have some really great work and you have no reason not to be confident that you can produce great work at the weddings.

I think it's pretty funny actually that there are many people that don't want to take the step into professional photography that are quite good and even more that seem to have had plans to be a professional from the day they bought their camera and quite suck.

[vpnd]

My contract doesn't allow the bride to have a second shooter present paid or unpaid. It states directly that I am the only photographer. I explain to them that Uncle Joe is free to take photographs when I am not and explain how another photographer's flash can ruin an image. I also explain to them what it looks like to have a second photographer in all the photographs because we are not working together.

With that in mind I'd say go be the pro. Get paid. Explain to them what they can expect if they hire you and remind them if they want the other photos they should hire a different pro.

If you don't have the time or energy to become the pro might I suggest they hire a pro for their wedding day and hire you to do a bridal portrait shoot the day after or the day before. It is quite common.
I agree, I point out the line in my contract that states that I am there as the only paid photographer and everyone like uncle Joe is welcome to shoot away if it doesn't hinder my job. Remember they are paying me or the paid pro to capture the day. Even formals, if I have the shot, I don't mind letting aunt Mae shoot that pose if there is time.

[Yannis_l72]

Thanks to all for the suggestions!
I would also like to thank you for your warm comments about my photos at my website (http://www.larios.gr).
I really appreciate it!

After all your interesting points of view, I am thinking of approaching a Pro photographer together with the bride, explaining the whole issue from the very start (before actually any contract with him/her).

I think that in this way we can negotiate a fair workaround without any surprises whatsoever.


Regards,

Yannis
(http://www.larios.gr)

[Yannis_l72]

Go on do it you know you want to...
But i must say IMO you are up for it if your photos are any proof great work...
May i also ask is that soft pastel look an in camera or PP result like the one looking through the old car windscreen ..I really like it...

Thanks rooeey!
Offtopic: Since you are asking, the colours in this photo (http://www.larios.gr/photo_755074.html)are due to the prevailing colours back then, as well as due to the warm-up filter used.

Regards,

Yannis
(http://www.larios.gr)

[Yannis_l72]

Yannis, Your site is beautiful. You are much more talented than many professional photographers. May I ask how you did the slideshows and uploaded them? I am curious as to what software you used and how you were able to put them into your website. I made a slideshow for a friend and so far I have been unable to show it to her because of its size (it crashed my email, for example). I am just trying to figure out how to do this. I apologize if this is too off-topic. Thanks.

Ozziepuppy thanks! ;)

I did the slideshows, exported them in .mpg and then uploaded them on Viddler (http://www.viddler.com/). Much better quality than youtube.


Regards,

Yannis
http://www.larios.gr

[razyl]

My contract doesn't allow the bride to have a second shooter present paid or unpaid. It states directly that I am the only photographer. I explain to them that Uncle Joe is free to take photographs when I am not and explain how another photographer's flash can ruin an image. I also explain to them what it looks like to have a second photographer in all the photographs because we are not working together.

I'm right on your side Ms Litch, as one thing I can't stand: another "pro" shooter at a wedding. They often get in the way, take up time doing the same shot I just took, and get people's eyes wandering around in group shots.

It also bugs me that they get to shoot as they please, not worrying about the usual / "standard" shots, and then seem to take a lot of credit for a couple of artisitic / unique angles that the pro didnt get :)

I take the presence of a second pro shooter as meaning the bride & groom don't trust me to do a great job. Trust is very important in a work situation, does your boss get someone else to follow along at your job and be ready if you fail?!

If, as you say, they want "artistic shots that the pro wont get" then why not hire someone who WILL get the artisitic shots they want? People often want great photos but aren't prepared to pay for them.

Or (as others suggest) why dont they just hire YOU? Are they or are you worried you can't do the job well enough? Or if you don't want the work, then I suggest leaving your camera at home and just enjoy the day. It's a rare privilege for me to attend a wedding without a camera and I cherish every moment of it! My advice is to leave the photography to an issue between the hired pro and the couple, dont get involved.

[zagiace]

In my contract I also state that I am the only Photographer. I have never enforced it and it only bugs me in 2 situations:
When I pick the place, choose the light, pose the couple and select the angle while Uncle Joe stands directly behind me calling the couple to look at him.
When I am directed by the Coordinator of where I am allowed to be during the ceremony while Uncle Joe is in the middle of the aisle blocking my shot. I have been scolded by a coordinator for letting my assistant disrupt the Ceremony. (Of course it was a family member not my assistant.)
If you want to get into wedding photography talk to a couple of local pros and attempt to assist them. Leave your camera at home when you do and learn the ropes first. There is more to shooting events like this then creating a few nice shots (Yours are very nice by the way.) I would not suggest photographing a friends for your first for a few reasons:

1 If you do not capture the story of the day in a way satisfactory to your client/friend it probably will cause stress on your relationship.

2 When you know prople in the wedding party or who attend the reception you are constantly approached by them interupting your work.

3 Friends often insist you party at the reception and enjoy yourself. You are there to work.

After you have assisted a few, then acted as a second photographer for a few, try to either book one of your own letting your client know you are a new photography looking for experience (otherwise be honest.) or see if your new Pro friends can book one for you.

[tim]

When I pick the place, choose the light, pose the couple and select the angle while Uncle Joe stands directly behind me calling the couple to look at him.

This never happens to me, as I don't start to do the B&G photos if there's anyone with a camera around. I explain how I work ahead of time. For the group photos I have a ladder I stand on, and I politely explain to people why they can't take photos at the same time as me. If I remember I put my camera down to let them take a photo. I talk to the people in the group so they look at me rather than anyone else.

[Yannis_l72]

In my contract I also state that I am the only Photographer. I have never enforced it and it only bugs me in 2 situations:
When I pick the place, choose the light, pose the couple and select the angle while Uncle Joe stands directly behind me calling the couple to look at him.
When I am directed by the Coordinator of where I am allowed to be during the ceremony while Uncle Joe is in the middle of the aisle blocking my shot. I have been scolded by a coordinator for letting my assistant disrupt the Ceremony. (Of course it was a family member not my assistant.)
If you want to get into wedding photography talk to a couple of local pros and attempt to assist them. Leave your camera at home when you do and learn the ropes first. There is more to shooting events like this then creating a few nice shots (Yours are very nice by the way.) I would not suggest photographing a friends for your first for a few reasons:

1 If you do not capture the story of the day in a way satisfactory to your client/friend it probably will cause stress on your relationship.

2 When you know prople in the wedding party or who attend the reception you are constantly approached by them interupting your work.

3 Friends often insist you party at the reception and enjoy yourself. You are there to work.

After you have assisted a few, then acted as a second photographer for a few, try to either book one of your own letting your client know you are a new photography looking for experience (otherwise be honest.) or see if your new Pro friends can book one for you.

I really appreciate your elaborate comments!
Thanks. It has put me into serious thinking about my approach. Well articulated.

Regards

___________
Yannis
http://www.larios.gr

[photofx]

I have been in love with photography my whole life, I can't get enough, yet there was a huge fear before I took my first pro wedding. It's normal, I say go for it. With your work I don't see how you could go wrong.

[chadp23]

Yannis If they are still interested in having a photography from the sates shoot them please contact me Hi, my name is Chad Pennington and I saw your inquiry about wedding photography.

Here is my web site for my photography http://www.sobitartphotography.com also http://www.sobitartphotography.blogspot.com