Motorsport shooting advice

[weka2000]

Well first shoot of the seson for me results not bad but I think I need some advice.

Ok 1Dsmk3 sRAW, ISO200, AI Servo, center point focus, 1 shot, 300F4 IS with and with out 1.4 TC, IS off. Nice sunny day.
(sRAW prints ok with tiff and A4 think would need tobe higher for A3)

Decided to use "M"mode ....... AV ranged from f5.6-F8.0 Shutter speed 1/90th (woops bit slow) up to1/500 (to fast lost feeling of motion)

I have found that lower AV values create a nice blured back ground but often much of the bike is OOF and soft.

Have way to many to biff out due to oof. Just as a general indicator what is your keeper rate? I would say about 60% for mine.


So what do other use, any advice.

[weka2000]

Ok update .... Checked the last yrs 2 events (bikes) the first time I set on AV mode the second event TV mode. 1Dmk2 + 300F2.8......

Basically same results with both modes.

Seems to be a bit hit and miss ..... are other facing the same issue, and does experence help?

[GSH]

Erm..how about posting some samples with EXIF intact?

It's a bit difficult to comment / offer advice from a written description of a photograph. It's rather like Da Vinci writing someone a letter and asking what they think of his latest painting of an ugly bird with a dodgy smile..

[weka2000]

What I need is a ruff guide on what settings people are using. How to get consistant in focus photos using a 1D series body. Also what is the average of keep rates.

No photos needed. Just information.

If someone asked the same question in landscapes the answer would be F16 adjust shutter speed etc .......thats what I use :lol:

[GSH]

What I need is a ruff guide on what settings people are using. How to get consistant in focus photos using a 1D series body. Also what is the average of keep rates.

No photos needed. Just information.

If someone asked the same question in landscapes the answer would be F16 adjust shutter speed etc .......thats what I use :lol:

Maybe, but landscapes don't move or come at you from all sorts of angles ;)

But, if you want the absolute basics...

Unless the cars are running headlights use Shutter Priority (TV). Go Manual for lights.

Head on & 3/4 shots. 1/400th max- i tend to use 1/320th mostly. Use the ISO to get your aperture to f8 (ish)

Side-on pan shots. Start at 1/200th and reduce as you get better. Aperture is largely irrelevant for pans.

AI Servo focus. Choose a focus point to suit your composition. NEVER use the "ring of fire" or whatever it's called for cars / bikes.



"Keeper" rates?. Anywhere from 50% upwards depending on how useless i am on the day. On the RAC Rally last saturday i deleted around 20 shots out of 200 or so.

[weka2000]

Thats what I was after :)

What focus points do you use?

It was my first shoot of the season so may be a bit rusty thus lots of deleted pics.
Have a car meeting on 30th so will see if keeper rate goes up. Also bigger target than bikes.

[GSH]

Thats what I was after :)

What focus points do you use?

.

Have a read of this...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=135409

Then if there's anything else you need to know, just ask away :)

[weka2000]

Have a read of this...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=135409

Then if there's anything else you need to know, just ask away :)

Cheers.

[Simon Harrison]

On the RAC Rally last saturday i deleted around 20 shots out of 200 or so.

Show off :o:lol:

Simon.

[GSH]

Show off :o:lol:

Simon.

:D

I was very suprised to be honest Simon..

Having said that i didn't do a great deal of night shooting. I suspect i would have junked more if i had.

[weka2000]

Looking over 2000+ photos from 3 bike events I have come to the folloing conclusion

The faster the shutter speed the better the keeper rate but the less "feeling" you have.

Wheels not moving do nothing for me, even if it is sharp and in focus.

[John Thawley]

If you're not deleting, you're not trying hard enough.

[jamesb84]

True point ^^^

Shooting pro sports I will shoot anything from 150 to 300 pics during 90mins of football, technically most of them (85%) are good. However, from point of view of interesting photos for editorial purposes I will send 15 first edits (peak action etc) and perhaps a further 30 for "second edits" so portraits, head and shoulders, general views, coaches etc.

That is technically a 10% keeper rate. But I'm being exceedingly selective...I mean REALLY selective.

James.

[ryant35]

My panning ranges from 1/250sec through 1/60sec. The average shutter speed is 1/250sec. I find a slow enough shutter speed blurs your background enough so you don't really need to shoot with a wide open aperature. Unless you have an ND filter to keep your aperature wide, you will usually be shooting with a small aperature at 1/250sec: f/8 - 12 or so.

I always shoot motorsports in Tv mode, manual for night races so I can keep a consistent shutter speed.

[Bosscat]

Just as a general indicator what is your keeper rate? I would say about 60% for mine.

Its not how many you keep, its what you keep thats important IMO.

I'd rather fail 49 time out of 50....if that one keeper is a knockout shot.

[Cadwell]

Its not how many you keep, its what you keep thats important IMO.

I'd rather fail 49 time out of 50....if that one keeper is a knockout shot.

That rather depends on your marketing model. If you are looking for one or two killer photos to illustrate an event then yes, quite right but that model doesn't work for everyone.

Consider some of the following scenarios.

Case 1.
I'm shooting a forest rally for a magazine feature. I get to see each car twice, once on each of the two stages I shoot. The magazine editor will want a photo of the cars in first, second and third place plus class winners for each class, perhaps another 12 photos / cars. I don't know in advance which cars those are going to be (no-one does until the event ends). Getting one good shot out of fifty isn't going to get the photos the magazine wants but it is going to get me fired. I need a "keeper" ratio of 50% or better since I have to have a shot of every car.

Case 2.
I'm shooting a race event with the intention of speculative photo selling to drivers / teams / perhaps a magazine who wants a shot of the winner or a particular driver / car for a feature. I therefore need a good photo of every car competing in each race, 8 races per day, 25 cars per race. That makes a total of 200 cars. Again, I have no way of knowing in advance which drivers / teams are going to order photos or which cars the magazine editors are going to be interested in - it might be the guy who finished first on the track or it might be someone mid-field who's just had his first class win.

Going by the 1 in 50 rule I can either take 10,000 frames at the event and hope that the law of averages means that I get every car, then spend a couple of weeks ploughing through them or I can use a more conservative set of parameters which get me a higher percentage of acceptable photos and maybe only take 500 frames.

If I don't have a shot of the particular car / driver then I don't make a sale, it is as simple as that. Saying "no, I don't have a photo of your car but I do have this really nice artistic one of another car in the race after yours" isn't going to get me very far with my customer.

Different business models need different approaches - the trick is understanding the one that suits your needs and getting the best shots you can under the constraints that puts you under.

[andrewc]

Glenn's post above sums up the way I feel about it. If you are working as a photographer you need to fulfill your brief first.

I've been shooting a Sprint series this season. I am supplying pictures to 4 magazines and also to the competitors.

Each car has 8 runs at the course. I change position at the end of each run so I get 8 different shots.

I don't know who is winning or has won until the event is over and I get back to the paddock. The magazine wants shots of the class winners plus a few other shots that may be spectacular for some reason - thrills and spills as it were. They want prizegiving shots. They want paddock shots. They want candid shots.

SO much so that I bring along a 2nd photographer to cover paddock and candid shots whilst I am out on course risking life and limb...

However, some events permit a much freer approach to photography, giving some time to experiment.

[Bosscat]

That rather depends on your marketing model. If you are looking for one or two killer photos to illustrate an event then yes, quite right but that model doesn't work for everyone.

Consider some of the following scenarios.

Case 1.
I'm shooting a forest rally for a magazine feature. I get to see each car twice, once on each of the two stages I shoot. The magazine editor will want a photo of the cars in first, second and third place plus class winners for each class, perhaps another 12 photos / cars. I don't know in advance which cars those are going to be (no-one does until the event ends). Getting one good shot out of fifty isn't going to get the photos the magazine wants but it is going to get me fired. I need a "keeper" ratio of 50% or better since I have to have a shot of every car.

Case 2.
I'm shooting a race event with the intention of speculative photo selling to drivers / teams / perhaps a magazine who wants a shot of the winner or a particular driver / car for a feature. I therefore need a good photo of every car competing in each race, 8 races per day, 25 cars per race. That makes a total of 200 cars. Again, I have no way of knowing in advance which drivers / teams are going to order photos or which cars the magazine editors are going to be interested in - it might be the guy who finished first on the track or it might be someone mid-field who's just had his first class win.

Going by the 1 in 50 rule I can either take 10,000 frames at the event and hope that the law of averages means that I get every car, then spend a couple of weeks ploughing through them or I can use a more conservative set of parameters which get me a higher percentage of acceptable photos and maybe only take 500 frames.

If I don't have a shot of the particular car / driver then I don't make a sale, it is as simple as that. Saying "no, I don't have a photo of your car but I do have this really nice artistic one of another car in the race after yours" isn't going to get me very far with my customer.

Different business models need different approaches - the trick is understanding the one that suits your needs and getting the best shots you can under the constraints that puts you under.

I have found that once a driver, rider or crew member has purchased a certain "look" they won't be buying a second image of that style. So one always has to come up with new "looks' to get a second and subsequent sales.

Magazines are a different animal, but in one magazine I work for, they let me submit whatever I want to go along with the story, and I often will put different people in every article, because for many, that will be the high point of their racing career.

I have people that want one "bomb" shot for a poster, people that will buy everything I have, people that will pick a few, but at the end of the day, I never worry about my keeper rate.

But then I've never been one to follow convention either....LOL

[Simon Harrison]

One of the most level headed and sensible posts I've read on POTN for a very long time. Well said Glenn.

Simon.

That rather depends on your marketing model. If you are looking for one or two killer photos to illustrate an event then yes, quite right but that model doesn't work for everyone.

Consider some of the following scenarios.

Case 1.
I'm shooting a forest rally for a magazine feature. I get to see each car twice, once on each of the two stages I shoot. The magazine editor will want a photo of the cars in first, second and third place plus class winners for each class, perhaps another 12 photos / cars. I don't know in advance which cars those are going to be (no-one does until the event ends). Getting one good shot out of fifty isn't going to get the photos the magazine wants but it is going to get me fired. I need a "keeper" ratio of 50% or better since I have to have a shot of every car.

Case 2.
I'm shooting a race event with the intention of speculative photo selling to drivers / teams / perhaps a magazine who wants a shot of the winner or a particular driver / car for a feature. I therefore need a good photo of every car competing in each race, 8 races per day, 25 cars per race. That makes a total of 200 cars. Again, I have no way of knowing in advance which drivers / teams are going to order photos or which cars the magazine editors are going to be interested in - it might be the guy who finished first on the track or it might be someone mid-field who's just had his first class win.

Going by the 1 in 50 rule I can either take 10,000 frames at the event and hope that the law of averages means that I get every car, then spend a couple of weeks ploughing through them or I can use a more conservative set of parameters which get me a higher percentage of acceptable photos and maybe only take 500 frames.

If I don't have a shot of the particular car / driver then I don't make a sale, it is as simple as that. Saying "no, I don't have a photo of your car but I do have this really nice artistic one of another car in the race after yours" isn't going to get me very far with my customer.

Different business models need different approaches - the trick is understanding the one that suits your needs and getting the best shots you can under the constraints that puts you under.

[GSH]

One of the most level headed and sensible posts I've read on POTN for a very long time.


And to be brutally honest there haven't been many...

Too many people trying to score points, take cheap shots and comment about equipment and situations of which they have little or no experience.

The Motorsports area is particularly prone to the above.

[Bosscat]

And to be brutally honest there haven't been many...

Too many people trying to score points, take cheap shots and comment about equipment and situations of which they have little or no experience.

The Motorsports area is particularly prone to the above.

It's Motorsports after all, home to the biggest egos in any form of sport. No matter if its a driver, rider, mechanic, official or photographer.

But thats why I love the whole industry, its about pushing the ragged edge. Everybody pushes each other, and we all benefit in some way shape or form. be it better cars, better bikes, better sleds, or a moment captured in time for all eternity.

[weka2000]

Well had a second outing ..... which raised another set of issues. Keeper rate went up but so did the static images. 1081 shots that dont tell a story and lack emotion or motion.

It was a lotus club day so not full on racing. Gave me a chance to try a couple of things, check new spots etc.

[GSH]

It was a lotus club day so not full on racing. Gave me a chance to try a couple of things, check new spots etc.

Track days are a bit of a black art. No racing as such and drivers that want to have fun without bending their pride & joy...

Then again if you're shooting a track day to sell, clean pictures of each car at as many points on the circuit as you can cover is the order of the day. If you manage a few "racing" shots (more than 1 car in the frame) it's a bonus.

[weka2000]

Track days are a bit of a black art. No racing as such and drivers that want to have fun without bending their pride & joy...

Then again if you're shooting a track day to sell, clean pictures of each car at as many points on the circuit as you can cover is the order of the day. If you manage a few "racing" shots (more than 1 car in the frame) it's a bonus.

Yes these lads had to drive their lotus to work today :lol:

There is a very different feel to club day vs race meets when you know they will push things as far as they can.

Also noticed a big difference between shooting bikes and cars on the same track. Whats may work for 1 wont work for the other.

[Mike Hoyer]

Indeed, and it can be the same for modern cars vs. historic cars as well.

[weka2000]

Indeed, and it can be the same for modern cars vs. historic cars as well.

In what way?