4 mos. Still no Payment

[dsze]

I shot a senior portrait session Nov. 8th for the girl of a woman my wife works with. I treated it like anyone else and she signed the same contract, etc.. But, I still have not been paid. No prints have been ordered and I haven't recieved payment for the session for nearly 4 mos. now. I've talked to her and she assures me that she loves the photos and she's added several to her online shopping cart, but she hasn't finished the order.

Any advice? I don't want to be like, "its time to pay" because I'm just not like that, but at the same time....its been 4 mos. I've sent emails checking on her and making sure the photos were ok..I offered to re-shoot at no charge if she didn't like them, but she promised that she loved them. What to do?

thanks,
daniel

[elkootcho]

Since your wife works with this woman I can totally understand your reluctance to say "pay up...now!!!". I would suggest simply mailing her a reminder bill. Nothing nasty - just a simple "here's another copy of the invoice in case you lost the first one. Please remit payment." Maybe she'll get the hint and pay her bills.

After that the decision to DEMAND payment or possibly send bill collectors after her gets a little muddy (there are online bill collectors that you can use to send demand letters and leave marks on her credit). Will the collection of your fee be worth it or will your wife's life at work become a nightmare? It might be something that you'll just have to forget to spare your wife the headaches.

[Andy_T]

What does your wife say?

Best regards,
Andy

[pradeep1]

I agree with elkootcho. It may not be worth the relationship to collect on this person. A gentle reminder invoice sounds like a good idea. I have customers like this. You see them regulary, at conventions and all. They will be respectable business people. But when it comes time to pay or finalize an order, they'll string you along. I don't know why....it's not like they don't have the money. Usually in that case, I send them an "Accounts Receivable" summary listing of all items sold, services rendered, and all. The listing should look like it was automatically generated by your "billing service" and not have any harsh or unkind words. Just having a line somewhere with the words "Account Status: Overdue 120 days" would suffice.

Next time, don't mix business with friends.

[dsze]

Well, she's not really a friend and my wife just wants to ask her for the money....she's tough like that.

-daniel

[IndyJeff]

Me, I am a prick I guess, I would just delete the gallery. When she calls frantic that the images are gone simply say you had 4 months and never ordered and I needed the webspace. I am sorry. Tell her if she mails a check for the amount agreed upon plus the amount for extra prints you will order them for her and have them shipped directly to her. If she doesn't send a check, that's her fault, not yours.

[Vegas Poboy]

I agree with Indy, I did a Big Family party a few months ago & posted everything online. I had over a 100 hits on thier site but no orders. So I posted that the site would expire in 30 days after the shoot date & bam the orders started comming in by the end.

[IndyJeff]

PoBoy I did that with a soccer league I covered this fall. Posted that the galleries would be deleted 30 days after the last match/game whatever they call it. This was done on the first date I was at their league. Plenty of hits but few orders. So 15 days before the deadline I changed the heading to say this will expire I think the date was October 28th. Even 3 days after that posting it still had about 25 more hits but no more orders. At midnight on the 28th, the gallery expired. Two days later I get an email asking what happened to the gallery? They want to order some prints. I asked if they had been to the site in the last couple of weeks, yes they had. Didn't you see the announcemnet that the galleries would be deleted on the 28th? Yes but we have been busy. Could I please put the galleries back up? Sorry but the files were deleted when the galleries were. I no longer have them uploaded and to redo them would require about 4 hours. If they would like the galleries back up they needed to send a check for $80 and I would relist the galleries for 7 days, and then they would be gone for good.
Well you guessed it, no reply, no check and then about 3 days later a call from the league director. She asked if I could relist the galleries. I told her the same thing, $80 and I will list them for 7 days. I also explained that all the people that were so interested in getting pictures, she told me about, of their little darlings probably bought all they wanted at the tourney they attended the week before I began shooting their league. If I would have known they were at a covered event the week before I wouldn't even had driven the 38 miles (one way) to cover their games. All in all I went up there 6 times, Tuesdays and Thursdays for 3 weeks. Total sales...about $120, and $70 of that was from a parent who's kid wasn't at the previous tourney.
In the end she apologized for not telling me about the previous tourney and them getting prints. I did get a check from the league, which I returned, for $100 for my inconveinence.
She said she would contact me about shooting them this spring. If she does I will probably tell her I am booked and can't do it, sorry.

[FlipsidE]

Jeff,

I'm curious...why did you return the $100 check from the league?

FlipsidE

[JX]

Hi dsze,

I have to agree with IndyJeff.

Good Luck

Jim

[Harry Settle]

Close the online photo site to her.

[IndyJeff]

Jeff,

I'm curious...why did you return the $100 check from the league?

FlipsidE

It was money I felt was not due me. There was no agreement that the league would guarentee me a certain number of sales or amount of money. She didn't say anything about reposting the images just "sorry for your inconveinence." I sent it back with a nice note explaining that while I do appreciate her gesture, it was not necessary. She should apply that money to better uses for the betterment of the league and for the benefit of the kids playing.
Now if I would have asked for a guarentee of a certain dollar amount in sales, I would have asked for the remainder of the balance to be paid. I have an agreement with a baseball league this year, they get 10% of all sales once the dollar amount goes over the guarentee but, they guarentee $750 in sales within 30 days of the gig. LOL Now if sales are $739 I will invoice them for $11 and send them a thank you note.

[kb244]

Is the place she can order the pictures showing decent size previews of the senior picutures if so, Make them very very small watermarked alot or just remove the gallery all together, she's obviously using the site to link friends and family to see the photos rather than ordering prints.

[Avalonthas]

keep buggin her until she pays. If were talking big money then maybe u need the authorities, but if its small time stuff, either absorb the loss, or keep sending her invoices till she gets the idea. Maybe remind her that she signed a legally binding contract and since shes using the photo's without paying for them, shes violating the copyright u have on em. I dont know up to u to decide wether this si worth it or not.

[elkootcho]

Well, she's not really a friend and my wife just wants to ask her for the money....she's tough like that.

After reading this I'd have to change my vote too. Originally I felt that saving your wife the heartache and possible work problems was ultimately more important. Bite the bullet for marital bliss and all that.

Since she has no problem confronting her workmate I'd pull the gallery and send an new invoice with "180 days past due", etc. Put the gallery back up after she pays up.

[dsze]

Alright,

I emailed her this morning telling her that it costs me $10/mo. to keep her gallery open and that I can't help but think that something is wrong after 4 mos. and no payment/order. We'll see what kind of response I get. I hate to be a jerk, because taking photos is a 'fun' thing for me, but I also hate to be taken advantage of.

thanks,
daniel

[pradeep1]

If you don't care about the relationship and it won't cause your wife any grief, then my vote would be for you try to aggressively collect. Even if you take down the gallery, you should still invoice her for your time/costs. I looked at your gallery and it seems that you've done a pretty good job, so you deserve to be paid. BTW, what amount are you trying to collect on? If it is under a certain dollar amount, you can just take her to small claims court in the end if your gentle persuasion tactics don't work. Usually it'll cost you between $30-100 to file a complaint and they'll have 30 days to answer. If you have a signed contract and your case is clear, most leveled headed people will answer the complaint and settle with you instead of going to court, since they will incur your original invoiced costs, interest, court costs, and their time costs if they choose to challenge you. If they don't answer and they don't show up, just ask the Clerk of Court for a default judgement against the debtor and go from there. I run a business with occassional deadbeat customers and I've done this twice and it seems to work reasonably well. Since you don't have to go through a lawyer, Small Claims Court works out cheaply.

[kb244]

Alright,

I emailed her this morning telling her that it costs me $10/mo. to keep her gallery open and that I can't help but think that something is wrong after 4 mos. and no payment/order. We'll see what kind of response I get. I hate to be a jerk, because taking photos is a 'fun' thing for me, but I also hate to be taken advantage of. Here is the gallery: See what you guys think. Are the photos just so terrible that they aren't worth paying the session fee for?

http://www.moments4ever.com/partner/client/event/login/index.cfm?EVENT_ID=1663

the event password is: battleground

thanks,
daniel


Good pictures indeed, the way you have the proofs setup, my assumption would be as I said before she's just sending friends and relatives to the site to look at all the picture rather than the traditional method of sharing. But you did make a good point that doesnt make it sound like you are nagging either, about the 10/month thing, and thats a perfectly legitimate point too, showing that you are spending money out of your pocket, for her to make her selection and if she had not ordered anything she's costing you money. (By the way , #9 looks like a good senior pic :D)

[epeace]

i think kb244 nailed it . . . shes was using your gallery as her own personal display . . why buy prints when everyone can see them online? why pay you when shes gotten what she wants? its a deadbeat attitude but unfortunately there are loads of people who wont think twice about taking advantage . .

[LisaMarie]

I shot a senior portrait session Nov. 8th for the girl of a woman my wife works with. I treated it like anyone else and she signed the same contract, etc.. But, I still have not been paid. No prints have been ordered and I haven't recieved payment for the session for nearly 4 mos. now. I've talked to her and she assures me that she loves the photos and she's added several to her online shopping cart, but she hasn't finished the order.

Any advice? I don't want to be like, "its time to pay" because I'm just not like that, but at the same time....its been 4 mos. I've sent emails checking on her and making sure the photos were ok..I offered to re-shoot at no charge if she didn't like them, but she promised that she loved them. What to do?

thanks,
daniel

Hi Daniel- This unpaid amount is the session fee I assume ? Even with a contract -letting people walk out the door with out paying a the fee you require is a big gamble. Friends, relatives whom ever it does not matter if you are doing a paid session GET PAID . Restructuring your contract and fee payment to be upfront for the session and additional for prints/package at a later time after selections are made might be a good idea. As for going after her for the amount- send one last notice and then put her in collection- after all that is one of the reasons you have a contract for in the 1st place isn't it ?

[DeeplyDigital]

Alright,

I emailed her this morning telling her that it costs me $10/mo. to keep her gallery open and that I can't help but think that something is wrong after 4 mos. and no payment/order. We'll see what kind of response I get. I hate to be a jerk, because taking photos is a 'fun' thing for me, but I also hate to be taken advantage of. Here is the gallery: See what you guys think. Are the photos just so terrible that they aren't worth paying the session fee for?

http://www.moments4ever.com/partner/client/event/login/index.cfm?EVENT_ID=1663

the event password is: battleground

thanks,
daniel


There are too many photos for a normal person to choose from.
I would drastically minimize the gallery. Pick out the best and
display only those. She might buy all.
If this was my daughter I would buy 9; 12; 36; 43; 53; 61.


Good luck,
Julia

[epeace]

kennyG just posted a bit on this subject (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60342). . saturated with wisdom . .

[elkootcho]

#9 is a very nice pic. The leaves and fence make a great setting. Even the dog is posing nicely! Good work.

[Steve Parr]

Me, I am a prick I guess, I would just delete the gallery. When she calls frantic that the images are gone simply say you had 4 months and never ordered and I needed the webspace. I am sorry. Tell her if she mails a check for the amount agreed upon plus the amount for extra prints you will order them for her and have them shipped directly to her. If she doesn't send a check, that's her fault, not yours.

This is outstanding...

Steve

[IndyJeff]

If she had left her car at the mechanic's she'd have paid the mechanic to get the car out of the shop.



I got news for you bloo dog, if she leaves the car at the mechanics for more than 30 days the mechanic will not only charge her a storage fee but, after 30 days in some states he can file to gain a title of the car and sell it at auction. To bad nobody wanted to buy the prints of the Bride du jour huh?

[dsze]

....The latest:

Well, she sent me an email appologizing and saying she'd have an order in a couple days...then a couple days later they called me and wanted to know what exactly was included in the package (and they were very nice) ...so I told them again and 3 hours later they had completed their order for over $300 plus the session fee.

thanks for all the help,
daniel

[pyterps]

I'm really glad it worked out for you and enjoyed reading this thread as I think it will help me in the future.

[SecondFocus]

Just forget it and move on. They don't have the money or it is just not a priority to them. Eihter way it will give you more grief than what it is worth.

[IndyJeff]

dsze,

I'm glad that it worked out.

If you ever need instructions for disemboweling noncooperative customers, you know where to turn.


LOL That reminds me of my favorite line out of Star Trek: The Next Generation, it came from Lt. Worf...."If you were not an ambassador, I would disembowl you here and now."


Glad things worked out on getting you money dsze. Let this be a lesson to you and all of us about getting paid.

[dsze]

....well, their order was processed and they ended up spending more than $550 on prints (and I price pretty cheap).... so, I am pleased. She emailed me today, after recieving her prints yesterday, and was extremely pleased with her prints. All turned out well. Lessons learned for me:

1. get paid the session fee upfront
2. don't rush into being a jerk in return (small claims court, pulling the site, etc.)...sometimes being patient and understanding works out better.

thanks for all the advice.

-daniel