digital rebel too hyped

[smittymike19]

i just bought a digital rebel yesterday ,as i had lost my canon s30 and needed a replacement. Wanting the same results i got from my nikon n70 (nondigital) i decided to spend a little more for the rebel. Well i took some indoor shots today and they stink. Or i should say they are no better than my s30 was, only difference is that i paid 700$ for the rebel. now i know everyone is going to tell me that i need abetter flash as i only used the pop up (built-in) flash. well i never had to buy a special flash for my regular slr and the pictures always came out great. whats the deal? i am by no means an expert in photography but i did manage to get great pictures with my nikon and its pop up flash. right now i am looking for the receipt as this may be going back. if i want decent pictures that will look good after a bunch of photoshop work, ill save 300 and get another s30.

[Steve Parr]

My 300D is the best photography-related purchase I've ever made.

For most things, my pop-up flash is workin' fine...

Steve

[Bluelens]

How do they stink?

Did you do any white balance adjusting? What aperature/shutter speed were you shooting at. There are several people in here that would love to give you a helping hand or 3 but we kinda need to know "how" the images were terrible. With that knowledge we can give suggestions as to what setting the adjust to get closer to what you are looking for.

Thanks.

[HJMinard]

What lens? What settings? It takes time and practice to get the best out of any new camera ... but I guarantee with the right glass and a little familiarity with the DRebel you'll achieve better results than is possible with the s30.

[kb244]

What ISO was your film.... :D etc.

[dewmuw]

You send me your Rebel and I'll send you my G3. :)

[Mike H]

Cameras don't make great pictures, photographers do.

You can either identify the problems that you ran into with the Rebel and work through them, or you can just blame the camera, whine a bit, and get another s30. You should get another s30.

Mike H

[Dante King]

maybe post a picture so we can see the problems? with the camera that is.. :lol:

[FlipsidE]

The difference in what I get with my DRebel and what I get with my S30 is astonishing. Granted, when I first got the cam and was using it on full auto mode, yeah...nothing too terribly great compared. Once I started to learn (still got A LONG way to go), the pictures got A LOT better.

FlipsidE

[smittymike19]

see like i said i am no expert. With my nikon slr i would just turn it on and shoot. never looked at aperture, etc.. I just set it to one of the pre existing modes for dummies (portrait, scene,etc..) aimed and shot. Now it seems like i may need to get a phd in photography to use this rebel. ARRGH!

[FlipsidE]

Not trying to be rude, so please don't think so. But, if you are a point and shoot person, I wouldn't recommend a DSLR. I'd go with one of the prosumer grade P&S cams like the Canon PowerShot G6.

FlipsidE

[DocFrankenstein]

I'd say smittymike is a PS person. Intended products for different audiences.

DLSR is not for everybody. Especially such a sucky one as the Drebel. LOL

[DocFrankenstein]

Flipside has much better typing skills.

[griff2]

Digital SLRs are not like point and shoot cameras, they have a much greater dynamic range, and as such you have to take a little more care especially for indoor shooting. The flash on the Rebel is not the most poweful in the world, but from my experience of my last film Canon SLR, the flash on that was pretty dismal, and not as good as the one on the Rebel. If you want to get the best out of the Rebel, using flash, I'd get an external one. Even a used speedlight 22EX can be obtained from Ebay for $95 and will significantly out-perform the built-in flash.

[mbze430]

But you know, all Canon digital does have stinky AWB, and directly setting the "appropriate" lighting source is no better. Custom WB is the only way to go with indoor lighting.

[Hellashot]

The Drebel is an advanced system, much unlike a P&S you were using. It might take some time to figure out the SLR features, settings, shooting modes, etc. And most film SLR users likely use an external flash for indoor photography.

[mbze430]

no, If I can, I use a 80series filter!

[DocFrankenstein]

If he has any significan nikon lenses, he should go and get the D70...

I keep hearing it's so good with skin tones in the green box. :lol:

[Scottes]

Cameras don't make great pictures, photographers do.

You can either identify the problems that you ran into with the Rebel and work through them, or you can just blame the camera, whine a bit, and get another s30. You should get another s30.

ROFLMAO!

Make that two votes for getting another S30!

[smittymike19]

Cameras don't make great pictures, photographers do.

You can either identify the problems that you ran into with the Rebel and work through them, or you can just blame the camera, whine a bit, and get another s30. You should get another s30.

Mike H

see its rude people like yourself that make life so interesting. I am not whining, just staing a simple fact. My nikon n70 took great pictures each time straight out of the box. Even my wife (who knows even less than i do about cameras) could take great shots ALL the time. No light balancing, no external flash, etc.. just turn it on and shoot. Grante di will probably learn some more about the camera nad will see better results, but it seems like this should all be somewhat nautomated by this point in the technology game. How is it taht my 10 yr old nikon nondigital camera gets it right but my new DIGITAL slr (which has a computer in it for ************) cannot? ps mike h need not reply.

[Scottes]

You were whining. And you're whining again.

The saddest thing is that you still can't realize that it's not the camera's fault.

[griff2]

With (negative) film, a lot of minor errors are corrected at the lab stage, so you might have made lighting mistakes with the Nikon and not even know about it. With digital SLR, if you make a mistake, you see it straight away.

[mr.photoguy]

I totally forgot my 20D had a pop up flash..
I didn't remember till I read this post.

[Phil V]

. How is it taht my 10 yr old nikon nondigital camera gets it right but my new DIGITAL slr (which has a computer in it for christ sakes) cannot? ps mike h need not reply.

Your 10 year old Nikon didn't get it right, the film had great latitude and was printed by a big machine that had a great computer in it (for the average snapshooter). All of that work now has to be done by you. If you're not up to this learning curve, a high end P&S is really a much better buy. Loads of my friends who had SLR's in the past are more than happy with their digital P&S cameras. They think I'm mad spending all this money on DSLR's and expensive lenses, because they can't see the difference.

[kb244]

This is another one of those threads, where the wrong camera falls into the wrong hands, automatically its the camera's fault, I mean X camera is more expensive and more hyped than Y camera, they're both digital cameras, X should be able to do everything right out of the box like Y can... right? Not nessarily. With Digital SLR canon ( and most other manufactures ) understand that most people would like their images altered as little as possible, the digital darkroom stage is where you would do the rest of what the lab would normally do, or what the point and shoots would normally do ( saturate, sharpen, noise reduction etc ). Also the lowest ISO on a digital SLR isnt as sentative as a P&S's ISO , basically in a way a P&S will handle low-light at the sacrifice of introducing noise, that most consumers dont normally complain about. If as you say you just stick it on auto mode most of the time and thats it, the G6 might be a bit much of control for the price, maybe knock down to one of the compacts like the S70, or S500. Those would give you higher resolution than the S30, I think the digic processor is newer too, and such so would be better in auto mode, apples to apples.

With the digital SLR , you are aiming to be specialized, at auto-vs-auto may not be much, but if you actually take the time to learn, and utilize all the additional capabilties the digital rebel is a far greater camera than any point and shoot no matter the price.

[Jon]

But you know, all Canon digital does have stinky AWB, and directly setting the "appropriate" lighting source is no better. Custom WB is the only way to go with indoor lighting.

And your evidence and/or documentation for this claim?

[kb244]

And your evidence and/or documentation for this claim?

Lol I'd like to know too. Lets see theres.... custom white balance, evalutive white balance, kelvin based white balance ( same as custom right? ), doing evalutive against an expodisc, etc etc etc.

[DocFrankenstein]

I think his comment referred to AWB only.

And he has a point. AWB doesn't really give good results most of the time.

[mr.photoguy]

The quality of the images taken with the 300D, or any equivalent DSLR, will be better than that of the S30. I have a S300 P&S, and I took a few images of myself, and they are nothing compared in quality to what the DSLR will take, especially when it comes to sharpness.
I think you should take the time to get used to your camera first. I see that you have yet to post a sample image.
If you think about it.. it's pretty inconsiderate of you to come here, and complain, but not post any of your image for us to evaluate. You are not even given anyone a fair chance to help you..

I have seen outstanding images taken by the Canon 300D's. So either you need to figure out if you are doing something wrong, or maybe you need to exchange your camera for another 300D.

[FlipsidE]

With the digital SLR , you are aiming to be specialized, at auto-vs-auto may not be much, but if you actually take the time to learn, and utilize all the additional capabilties the digital rebel is a far greater camera than any point and shoot no matter the price.
- Well said! You hit the nail on the head.

FlipsidE

[Jon]

I think his comment referred to AWB only.

And he has a point. AWB doesn't really give good results most of the time.

Well, he also said . . . and directly setting the "appropriate" lighting source is no better. so he evidently doesn't like any of the other "presets", either. The thing to remember about AWB is that it relies on the image averaging out to an essentially neutral grey hue under correct lighting/light balance. If you have a preponderance of one hue, it'll be thrown off. And if you have a discontinuous emissive spectrum (gas discharge or fluorescent lamp) light source, it'll be thrown off.

[oddball]

Last year, a pro-photographer friend of mine explained the dSLR world to me in very simple terms;

"Your tiny point & shoot cameras are like normal consumer cars; SLRs are like Indy race cars"

If one does not know how to operate a race car, I would imagine it would not be much fun after all...

[Mike H]

see its rude people like yourself that make life so interesting. I am not whining, just staing a simple fact. ... ps mike h need not reply.

I need not, but I will anyway. I wasn't being rude; I merely made observations and a recommendation (which I still think is a good one). I assure you that I'm capable of writing a far more acidic response to you posts.

You have to understand that it gets tiresome to continually read posts wherein people blame machines for things going wrong. A friend of mine bought the same bike that Lance Armstrong has been using to win the Tour de France, and yet, she hasn't even won local races with it. Should she assume that it's all a lie, that the bike is no good afterall? She has decided to train hard instead, and while I believe that Lance is safe for now, we're looking forward to better results on her expensive bike.

If you write back with specific problems and ask for help, there are many experienced shooters on this board that will help you. It's up to you to decide if that's what you want, or if you just want to rant.

Mike H

[MT]

If one does not know how to operate a race car, I would imagine it would not be much fun after all...

I disagree, it likely would be fun - it just wouldn't last long.

[robertwgross]

Occasionally, new Canon users find themselves sliding around on the steep end of the learning curve.

---Bob Gross---

[Steve Parr]

I look at it this way:



My 300D will only do what I tell it to do. If I take photos utilizing the default settings, then I am telling the camera to use those settings. If I decide to manipulate the ISO or the aperture, I am telling the camera to use these new settings.



If I’m not getting satisfactory shots, it’s not because the camera is doing something wrong, it’s because I haven’t told it to do something different. I’m learning to tell the camera what to do (in the way of using different settings, etc), but I still need to become fluent in the camera’s language.



Thus far, I’m generally pleased with the shots I’ve taken with my 300D. As I learn what to tell my camera to do, I expect the quality of the shots to improve…



Steve

[Pelao]

Perhaps it is an issue of expectations - maybe you expected outstanding shots out of the box, and in your view you did not get them.

My Rebel was my first SLR. When I got it, for the longest time I took shots on full-auto. I remain amazed at the quality of those shots, even with the kit lens.

[mr.photoguy]

Do this,..

Take an image in side with the flash ...


Take an image outside with out the flash ...


Give the camera to your wife, and let her take an image of the same thing you did inside..


Then post all the images on here ...
If you don't have anywhere to host them, i will let you use my pbase..

[mbze430]

And your evidence and/or documentation for this claim?

dpreview.com, every test they have done, they always complaint about the AWB.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page21.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dmkii/page19.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1ds/page15.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page19.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong6/page15.asp

[lmelendez]

Let me put it this way... when I just got my DRebel, I took a few shots (inside) of my kids.

Compared to the shots I was getting from my old G2... the DRebel ones were awful!!! Underexposed, soft... terrible!! I thought it was the camera too... until I start reading everything (the manual, reviews, this forum, etc). After a few days the pictures were similar... and right now, I am sure I can take better pictures with my DRebel than my old G2.

The difference? well, the DRebel allows you to do more (that's why is more expensive) but requires you to learn how to use it.

Give it some time, read some more.... you might like it...

Leo.

[smittymike19]

I need not, but I will anyway. I wasn't being rude; I merely made observations and a recommendation (which I still think is a good one). I assure you that I'm capable of writing a far more acidic response to you posts.

You have to understand that it gets tiresome to continually read posts wherein people blame machines for things going wrong. A friend of mine bought the same bike that Lance Armstrong has been using to win the Tour de France, and yet, she hasn't even won local races with it. Should she assume that it's all a lie, that the bike is no good afterall? She has decided to train hard instead, and while I believe that Lance is safe for now, we're looking forward to better results on her expensive bike.

If you write back with specific problems and ask for help, there are many experienced shooters on this board that will help you. It's up to you to decide if that's what you want, or if you just want to rant.

Mike H

why is it considered ranting/whining/complaining when soemone attacks the precious drebel. What all of need to realize is that you are justifying your money spending (or overspending). not that i am innocent of that type of thing, but it is what you are doing. i just had to do the same with the new tv i bought. in order to justify the almost 4000 i spent on my new tv i had to explain the following:
why did i spend 4000 on a tv that the regular (non hd) signal looks worse than a standard tube tv? why did i double my cable bill (to get hd)?why did i buy a new dvd palyer to use with this tv? the list goes on. All of this to justify my purchase. truth is i often question myself sometimes. When you take a step back and look at things the truth is the drebel is overpriced and requires alot of defending. Its just another item in the long line of technological advances that is actually a retreat. Now instead of picking up my nikon and clicking i must buy soft boxes, additional flashes maybe some umbrellas etc.. and ill get the same quality picture as when i just picked my nikon up and clicked "go". But hey since i paid for the drebel i guess thats what ill have to do. I can remember justifying the size of my 35mm camera bag to those who had p&s. It should be intereting when i show up with a dump truck full of accesories just so can shoot a nice shot on the beach. Be truthful with yourselves, the drebel is overhyped and overpriced. As one poster said "the printer at the lab corrected your mistakes" why shouldnt i expect the same out of the digital camera? In auto mode it should be able to at least process it to the same extent as photoshops one step fix. We have palm pilots that have full os's in them yet we cant build a camera that has "a one step fix" in it for all of those out there (me included) that do not want to spend an eternity learning about f stops, apertures, lighting etc.. and dont necessarily need the worlds absolutely perfect shot, just something reasonable. Out of the box, the drebel doesnt do this. After a couple hundred hours of lessons it may, but out of the box, it simply doesnt. Sorry drebel fans but if i took the time to learn all of the ins and outs of photography i could make my s30m shots turn out almost as nice and save 50% on the price tag, and thats a fact.

[lkorell]

I'm surprised at all of you for insulting this poor guy. Here, someone makes a great purchase, it's a Canon (we're all fans here) and he's having a problem.

Let's be constructive and try to reassure that he made a good choice instead of pointing to user ignorance.

If you are using the pop up flash, you will not get any better than P&S shots.
The pop-up flash is there as a convenience for people who cannot utilize a more sophisticated flash unit. Forget that.

Get the Sigma 500 Super DG. Immediately your flash pictures wil be different for you. The 580EX & 550EX are better but more so if you have a 20D and a bigger budget.

Read lots of info on photographers forums, like this one, to learn more about your settings to achieve optimum results.
Learn to read your histogram. It will be your guide to better exposures.

I own a digital rebel and a 20D. I'd love the XT too but I'd most likely buy a second 20D.

Shoot a lot and play with the settings. I have shot weddings with my digital Rebel (as my backup) and compared to the D70, my shots were way better right out of camera. So, don't give up too soon. Play with it.

Lou

[Bodog]

I'm surprised at all of you for insulting this poor guy. Here, someone makes a great purchase, it's a Canon (we're all fans here) and he's having a problem.

Let's be constructive and try to reassure that he made a good choice instead of pointing to user ignorance.



Lou
Ordinarily I would agree, but so far I haven't seen any request for help. Appears to be only one purpose for the post that I can see. Let him vent and ignore it. :rolleyes:

[mbze430]

I think his comment referred to AWB only.

And he has a point. AWB doesn't really give good results most of the time.

Yes I was refering to AWB, but from time to time the individual setting gives a hint of warmth or coolness to the picture. That is why I mention using the 18% grey card, is the only option for me within indoor usage.

[smittymike19]

Ordinarily I would agree, but so far I haven't seen and request for help. Appears to be only one purpose for the post that I can see. Let him vent and ignore it. :rolleyes:

ok i think i am done venting. :p

[oddball]

. Sorry drebel fans but if i took the time to learn all of the ins and outs of photography i could make my s30m shots turn out almost as nice and save 50% on the price tag, and thats a fact.

Speaks for itself.

[Bluelens]

smittymike19, don't be fooled into thinking that you need to buy all that extra grear. For the longest time I was just shooting with the room light and the pop-up flash. I have seen some of the most amazing photographs with little more then the camera and a lens and no other goodies. Photography really is all on how you can manipulate light. Not poses, not what gear you have, but light. The important thing to remember here is that this is a camera built with the idea that people want control over every aspect of the image capturing process. Yes it is a little overwhelming and a tad daunting to think of all the new info that you need to absorb, but think of what you gain at the same time.

Once you learn to manipulate the camera to do what you tell it to you no longer have to say "I don't know how I got the image, I just pushed the button". For a lot of people that is a fine answer and they don't think twice about it, others want a little more. When those that want more shop around for cameras, they turn to the manual mode of the camera and that is where the learning starts.

If all you are looking for is a P&S where the computer/lab/whatever corrects the exposures for you then thats cool. You know what you want and I see no problem with that. But when you take the step for a DSLR please keep in mind that while it is still the world of photography, the landscape just changed. Yes there are automatic settings on the camera, but the camera doesn't think. All it does is process the information that it receives from the setting and the light and does the best it can. Perhaps thecamera is on a white balance setting that is not proper for the room. Unlike the photoprocessing people there is no "other set of eyes" making sure the color is correct or is pushing/pulling the process to fix the image, but that is all part of the new landscape.

I have seen images from a disposable camera that would blow away captures from any digital camera out there, but the big difference is who is holding what. Think of the 300D like a car (and not a TV) for a moment. All new cars get you from point A to point B, but it is the extra features that the car offers that grabs the attention of the shopper. You don't have to get any extras on a car if you don't want them and you can get only those features that you are looking for. Does that mean that all PT Cruisers are perfect for all people looking for something bigger then a 2-Door car? Nope. It works for some and not for others.

I hope that you give the 300D a chance and peek into its more interesting features before drop kicking it out of the house. But, if you think that it is too much personal control over the camera with very little net protecting you, then I do think that a P&S would be the way for you to go. And there is no problem with that at all.

[Steve Parr]

When you take a step back and look at things the truth is the drebel is overpriced and requires alot of defending. Be truthful with yourselves, the drebel is overhyped and overpriced. Out of the box, the drebel doesnt do this. After a couple hundred hours of lessons it may, but out of the box, it simply doesnt. Sorry drebel fans but if i took the time to learn all of the ins and outs of photography i could make my s30m shots turn out almost as nice and save 50% on the price tag, and thats a fact.

No, that's opinion.

Everything you posted there is opinion.

Fact? Hardly.

You're not only doing your level best to slam the Rebel, it's also clear that you want to criticize those of us who own it, and get good shots with it, for no other reason than you cannot.

I have no reason to defend the purchase of my camera, and certainly not to someone like you. I wanted it, I had the money, so I bought it. Period. That's all there is to it.

While digital SLR's can be complicated, they ain't rocket science. It's clear you have no interest in learning anything more about your camera than where to point the round shiny thing with the glass in it.

Others here have offered honest assistance, and all you've done is get your panties in a twist even more than they already were. Why not take one of these guys up on their offer? I've been a member here for a whopping two weeks, and have learned much in that time to assist me.

Of course, I gave them a chance. You seem unwilling to do that, so you should be unsurprised by the types of responses you're getting...

Steve

[smittymike19]

Speaks for itself.

such snobbery here. What i should have said was that i could get the quality pictures i need if i got a photography PhD by using my s30. As i really only take portaits and print to 4x6 maybe 8x10 and at those sizes there is a ton of forgiveness. I am NOT the worlds best photographer, i dont intend to be. But i would like a digital camera that can provide as nice of an out of the box experience as my n70 gave me.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Smitty Mike,.
You're statements above regarding Rebel owners are assuming that everyone who has one and defends it is suffering from similar problems to the ones that you specified in your first post in this thread.

I'd wager that the very reason they are "justifying" there purchase is because they ARE NOT having similar problems,. and are in fact getting out of the camera exactly what they expected of it,. or more.

FYI, dropping into a forum full of fans of a particular peice of equipment for the sole purpose of bashing it will essentially allways garner a negative response.

There are two types of people that will do this sort of thing,.

Ones that are unaware of the implications of there post (we'll assume this includes you ;) )

And those that are perfectly aware that they are starting a "flame war" and do it for that very reason. :( We call them "trolls".


If you are having trouble with your camera and would like some of the resident experts here to share there experiences with Canon DSLRs in the hopes of improving your own,. then you have come to the right place! :)

Ask and you shall receive! We welcome you with open arms and I'm sure we can help! :)

But be aware that "trolls" on the other hand are not appreciated much.

[Bodog]

Thank you, CDS ;)

[Jon]

dpreview.com, every test they have done, they always complaint about the AWB.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page21.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dmkii/page19.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1ds/page15.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page19.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong6/page15.asp

And that's how many reviewers? Seriously, for such a broad claim as you made you need more than one reviewer, preferably from more than one publication. And you also said "and directly setting the "appropriate" lighting source is no better." Even your cited examples don't make that broad a claim.