New GI Bill = Free Photography School. Should I do it?

[afb]

I know there are a ton of school vs. self-taught threads out there. I've read the arguments for and against both sides. But here's my current situation...

-I'm approaching 30.
-I've already got a B.S. in Info Systems
-If I were to go to Brooks, the sum total of the new GI Bill (approx $104,000) will essentially cover all of the cost to attend. The only thing I'd need is cost of living (about $60k total at the most).

Keeping in mind the current economic situation, should I take my savings and go right into the business? (wedding/events, etc). Or should I take advantage of the GI Bill and get a free degree out of it and potentially face a $60k loan for cost of living?

[neilwood32]

Only you can decide this but bear in mind a few things:
1) While doing the photography course, there is nothing to stop you earning from it (or another job) in your spare time.
2) The photography course will probably cover the business side of things as well as the photograpy aspects. IMHO that would be of great benefit when approaching banks etc for start up loans etc (esp in the current financial climate).
3) Only you know how much knowledge you have at the moment. Looking at your flickr, you are doing ok but would you be better with more training? Probably.

The other thing is, given current market conditions, new businesses are going to struggle to establish themselves as clients are (fairly) scarce. Doing the course would give time for better economic conditions which will improve your prospects long term.

[Dennis_Hammer]

neilwood has given you great advice. The other thing is school v self taught is a silly argument for anyone to engage in. Anytime you can get schooling its worth it, there is no reason you can't do both to limit yourself to one or the other just sets up limits in yourself and your photography.

[Matthew Craggs]

As the poster above said, only you can decide, and not knowing how much money you have saved right now and your current financial situation it's impossible to recommend anything. But I can relate my experiences as a person who went to school and now does wedding and event video for a living.

I got a film degree which did nothing for me, then went to college and took a post production course. I learned a lot, and met a lot of great people, but all in all if I could do it again I would have put the money into equipment, marketing, and business courses. The fact is that I didn't learn anything I couldn't have learned by myself, and a few accounting and marketing classes would have been priceless if I had chosen to go that route instead.

You meet great people, have fun, and get to play with equipment you couldn't afford on your own, but I haven't talked to anyone from the class for a couple of years and if you want to network, there are other ways to do it.

If I was in your spot, I would probably set aside as much as I could, even at the expense of purchasing more equipment (you can rent anything, and anyone who tells you that you need $20,000 of gear off the bat is lying), and work as hard as I could to create a killer website and get my name out there as much as possible. Besides, most people can cut it in school but not everyone can cut it when you hit the pavement and start acquiring clients. It makes sense to me to hit the pavement right away, because if you're not the type of person who can handle the business end then you'll know it right off the bat.

But that's just me, and I know nothing about your personal situation. Only you can decide what is best for you. I could be completely off base, in which case you should ignore everything I just typed :)

[afb]

lol...thanks for the input guys.

being in the military, i've had lots of time on staff (ie. working w/ a lot of different personalities, cultures; meeting deadlines, working under pressure, etc). not exactly the same, but i feel it's given me a lot of experience to handle clients in a photo business realm.

i'm due to get out of the army next june. by then, i'll have about $40k in savings.

i started photography by going to events/military training and simply taking pictures. i know i still have a ways to go, but i have the most confidence in going right into the business if i were to do events/weddings. the idea of getting a photo degree is nice b/c it would expose me to other areas of the business (commercial, ads, etc).

[breal101]

A degree from Brooks would certainly open doors for you if you want to work for a corporation or go to work for another photographer in the advertising field. I know of some Brooks grads who worked as an assistant to some well known photographers and went on to become highly successful on their own. I also have heard stories of Brooks grads who are now working outside of photography. If you are set on event photography as a career it would be a little less help in my opinion. A course in business management while setting up your event business could be an option to consider. One great thing about Brooks is the location, Santa Barbara is beautiful and the experience would be challenging and fulfilling. Good luck in whatever decision you make.

[Gentleman Villain]

Hi AFB

Everybody has a different route to achieve success in the photography business so your story is going to be unique. The main point I'd like to make is that photographers are entrepreneurs and have to think like small business people. These are things that cannot be learned in a school environment. Schools are designed around a corporate education model that is not relevant to the small business world. The culture of the military is also largely irrelevant to the small business world (except for the discipline aspect) The things a person needs to know about running a small business can only be learned through working directly in the field or just kind of starting up a business and saying a few prayers and jumping in feet first.

IF you want to learn more about advanced lighting and techniques then 30 years old is the BEST age to assist. You are at absolutely the best age to assist a good working professional photographer. Early 30s is a great age to be hired as a head assistant or to be a studio manager for an already established photographer. It's hard to get these kinds of jobs, but if you really want to do it you can. It just takes time and effort...but it's possible. When you get into your late 30s and early 40s it becomes a lot harder to get a job in a studio. And young people in their 20s often find it difficult to relate to older business people. But, 30 is the perfect age to be if you want to assist. It's right in between old and young. Plus, a lot of photographers will respect your prior military experience. They know you'll show up to work on time :)

Finally, starting a business costs lots of money. Right now, you've got plenty of money to get started. Going to school will put you into debt and then you won't have the money necessary to start a business when you graduate. Also, school might distract you into devoting lots of time to types of photography that won't make you any money. If you plan to start a wedding/portrait business....then you want to start shooting those things right away and try not to waste much time doing other things.

Just some thoughts. Good luck with whatever you do....everybody takes a different route so hopefully yours will work out just fine.

[Gentleman Villain]

i started photography by going to events/military training and simply taking pictures. i know i still have a ways to go, but i have the most confidence in going right into the business if i were to do events/weddings.

BTW - I actually know an ex-Air Force guy that started his own wedding/portrait studio and does VERY well. I know he makes 6 figures plus his retirement.

He started out exactly like you...he took some pictures in the military at events and stuff. He was mostly self taught and tried to surround himself with people that had similar interests.

He retired after about 23 years in the service....and immediately rented a small space and took out ads in the phone book. Business was slow at first but picked up over time. I think it took him about 5 years until he was making in the 6 figure range. Eventually he was able to purchase the entire building where he was renting a studio....and sold it during the real estate boom and did really well for himself.

So anyhow, I thought it was worth sharing that story. He's an ex-military guy and a successful photographer that is completely self taught.

[NeutronBoy]

no jobs in IT?

[tim]

Photography is not an easy way to make a living. You're lucky to have IT to fall back on. THAT is a good way to make money.

Follow your dreams, but be a little realistic.

[Jon Foster]

no jobs in IT?

There are almost NO jobs in IT right now. In fact, IT is kind of like working at a 7-11 store. Most people are making close to minimum wage and have no benefits. Every day when you go to work you expect it to be the last day you have a job. Or, IT guys don't have jobs right now. Which one is worse?

Should the OP go to school for photography? That is his choice. An education is great to have but making money in the real world is what we all need. I would keep the schooling as a consideration and watch the economy in the mean time. See what things are like in June and see what the local economy is supporting in the area he will be living.

Jon.

[ozmosis]

My 2 cents. I found going back to college to be a waste of time, everything I learned was on my own. In my Photography class the teacher did not even know how to set up the studio strobes or take a light reading. When I asked her questions I just got attitude and pretty much solidified my position that the only way for me would be to get out and just do it. With the Internet you have the world at your fingertips, there is nothing you have a question about that someone has not asked before.
I suggest you get a degree in small business and marketing which is what you will need to get above those around you. Read "best business practices for photographers" by Harrington, "Building your Photography Business" by Orenstein. Good luck. Plus read "rich dad, Poor dad" which opened doors by looking at things with a new perspective. Today get your website name locked in now, and any alt names you might want to use. Trust me on that one. Only a few dollars today to register a domain.

[brecklundin]

only thing I would add is no education is ever wasted. At Brooks you would be given the chance to investigate areas of photography you might not otherwise be able to explore. You can always pick up needed business courses at SBCC (Santa Barbara City college) because, well, business courses are business courses no matter where you take them.

But what I would add is the cost of living in the SB area is HUGE. a living wage, as in just surviving, is at minimum $40k/yr...there are no such things as Walmart or any other sort of discount stores where a student might be able to cut some corners cost of living wise. You could commute from say, Lompoc but then you are at the mercy of fuel prices and loose a solid 1.5hrs/day on the road round trip. Same goes for anywhere south of SB. So you are basically looking at renting a room or sharing an apartment for probably $600-$900/mo in Goleta or Isla Vista. Perhaps Brooks can help with vetted living options, because well, you're gonna have a ton of $$$ gear and need a place you can trust...living costs are something to seriously consider SB area has a very large population of what is called "the working poor". And while you have a fair amount of savings, there is little doubt you'll need so sort of income from somewhere to keep you fed and housed with a few bucks in your pocket to actually enjoy your time in the area...

[airfrogusmc]

I went to college on the G-I bill. Majored in photography and it helped me and opened doors to me that I couldn't even begin to explain in short. I wouldn't be working in the field I'm in today if not for my degree. It does depend on the school and your professors. I learned so much about the technical end of photography and when I graduated I went to work for a very successful photographer and between him (worked there for a couple years) went to work for another photographer for a couple more years and really learned the business side of the profession and its so unique that none of my business classes in college would not have prepared me for the profession though I would say take some and a marketing class or two. Got hired by a hospital where the you needed at least 5 years professional exp a B/A and a strong portfolio. Worked there for 10 years then opened my own business 8 years ago where I work mostly in health care. I made friends and connections in college that are still valuable to me today and without the degree I would have never gotten the job at the hospital thus I would not be working in my field or be as successful today if not for my education. I have worked every day as a full time professional since graduating. So its worked for me. ;)

[brecklundin]

airfrog:

GREAT to read of folks who used the GI Bill for the education you EARNED...I have a number of buds who have had experiences similar to yours. The funniest one is a guy who got his BS in Business Admin and then opened his own Bail Bonds...dude is worth a fortune today. He put in his 20 and then went to school.

afb: I wanted to clear up my earlier post to you. I wasn't trying to discourage you but just did not know if you are aware of the cost of living in the Santa Barbara area...that said it's an area with a LOT to offer. If you are interested in wildlife photography the Channel Islands offer some of the most pristine and un-adulterated habitats you might find anywhere. Not so sure about underwater stuff though since the ocean waters here are not super clear...and of course there are always the nude beaches...but for the most part ya gonna need a LOOOOONG lens cuz that salt water is COLD and the "shrinkage factor" is huge....hehehehehe...

[Armywife]

From my understanding, the new GI bill that is coming out will cover your cost of living.....I could be wrong, but that is what i have heard.

Goodluck however you decide!

[tlw1964]

From one retired AF guy to another.
All I have read is great info. More schooling is never a bad thing but it may not fit into your situation at this time. However, I would encourage you to get it when you can and not to let the opportunity to pass you by. I can promise you one thing, if you do let the opportunity of more schooling pass by you will regret it. I wish I had the GI bill to use for our photography needs as well but I could not afford to take it 26 years ago. We started Redbud Photography like you, small and have crossed many of the same challenges that you faced or are facing. Hang in there and remember anything worth having will require lots of work and determination. We choose to go through our local chapter of small business association. Via the SBA we were able to develop solid business plans, create realistic goals and have many avenues available to use. Our SBA supports us very well with how to information, seminars and has also given us some leads that developed into profits for the business. I would suggest you sit down with yours SBA office and see how they can help you as well.
tw

[afb]

However, I would encourage you to get it when you can and not to let the opportunity to pass you by. I can promise you one thing, if you do let the opportunity of more schooling pass by you will regret it.

this statement has been in the back of my mind ever since you mentioned it.

to give an update, i just found out today that brooks will be participating in the Yellow Ribbon Program under the new GI Bill. it essentially means that i will no longer have to take out any loans. school, including everything else cost-wise, will be 100% covered! going to look into art center as well to see if they're doing the yellow ribbon thing too. planning to attend one or the other this fall. :D

[RDKirk]

My GI bill will time out in June, and although I've been using it the last ten years since I retired, I'm still trying to squeeze as much out of it as possible. There are a couple of IT certs I can probably get in before then (the GI bill pays the testing costs, and you can repeat a test as many times as it takes to pass). Maybe they'll come in handy one day, maybe not. But it would be dumb to pass up a free opportunity to get them.

As has just been said, do notsquander this educational opportunity. Brooks may not be the best use of it, especially if it will use up your entire benefit, but you have to be the judge of that. Be willing to go to different schools and sample different programs as necessary to learn what you need.

Look at business programs in community colleges, where they tend to cater more to small business learning; university business programs are more often designed to create "corporate cogs," not small business owners.

You may want to take courses in different places. Look up Excelsior College, a college set up specifically with the GI in mind (guys like I was, who the military moved around too often to ever finish a program in residence). Although the college is based in New York, they have a fully accredited program that designs a BS curriculum with you and allows you to take the courses where ever they are offered.

[PhotosGuy]

I suggest you get a degree in small business and marketing which is what you will need to get above those around you. I'd agree with that. You are at absolutely the best age to assist a good working professional photographer. But this is the fastest way to learn the business.
So You Want To Be A Photographers Assistant (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=212443)

[afb]

checking in for another update. since then, i've attended a solid year (6 sessions) at brooks. when i first started researching schools, i was hesitant about a business vs. photo degree. and now i'm beginning to see the value of a good photo education.

right now i'm in a table top/product class that is extremely technical. our first assignment we had to shoot 10 images (different lighting setups) that took our group 26 hrs to shoot. the second assignment supposedly averages about 50 hrs to shoot. it's a real long process learning how to get each image perfectly exposed, and lots of students absolutely hate this class. but for me, it's not about shooting a boring racquetball...the subject/object is irrelevant. it's all about learning what light does, how to modify it to do what you want, getting the ratios etc. this kind of meticulously boring stuff i don't think i would EVER do on my own. but the more you can master the technical side of things, the less restrictive the creative aspect can be. also, i believe that assisting will teach you more about the business side, so it makes sense to learn the technical in school

anyway, santa barbara is beautiful, and not unbearably expensive to live. i often find myself wishing it was closer to LA though. i've been going down there a lot to do personal work, assisting jobs, etc. i decided not to take on a part time job so that i can fully devote myself to photography. our teachers are also great to pick their brains, as they are working pros who help guide us in the right direction. we also have 3 industry pro guest speaker events each session that offer great stories and advice. i'm also really excited to attend the eddie adams workshop (http://www.eddieadamsworkshop.com) in a few weeks.

[tim]

Assisting will teach you how to carry stuff, but almost nothing about the business. Business is critical, if you want to work for yourself, a photography degree is good if you want to work for someone else.

[ShotByTom]

Hi AFB

Everybody has a different route to achieve success in the photography business so your story is going to be unique. The main point I'd like to make is that photographers are entrepreneurs and have to think like small business people. These are things that cannot be learned in a school environment. Schools are designed around a corporate education model that is not relevant to the small business world. The culture of the military is also largely irrelevant to the small business world (except for the discipline aspect) The things a person needs to know about running a small business can only be learned through working directly in the field or just kind of starting up a business and saying a few prayers and jumping in feet first.

IF you want to learn more about advanced lighting and techniques then 30 years old is the BEST age to assist. You are at absolutely the best age to assist a good working professional photographer. Early 30s is a great age to be hired as a head assistant or to be a studio manager for an already established photographer. It's hard to get these kinds of jobs, but if you really want to do it you can. It just takes time and effort...but it's possible. When you get into your late 30s and early 40s it becomes a lot harder to get a job in a studio. And young people in their 20s often find it difficult to relate to older business people. But, 30 is the perfect age to be if you want to assist. It's right in between old and young. Plus, a lot of photographers will respect your prior military experience. They know you'll show up to work on time :)

Finally, starting a business costs lots of money. Right now, you've got plenty of money to get started. Going to school will put you into debt and then you won't have the money necessary to start a business when you graduate. Also, school might distract you into devoting lots of time to types of photography that won't make you any money. If you plan to start a wedding/portrait business....then you want to start shooting those things right away and try not to waste much time doing other things.

Just some thoughts. Good luck with whatever you do....everybody takes a different route so hopefully yours will work out just fine.

This is just littered with all kinds of bad advice!! It sounds like you didn't take this advice and chose to go to school. GOOD FOR YOU!!

I completely agree with Tim. Being an assistant will slow you down in your desire to start your own business. My advice would have been along the lines of what Tim said, use your IT degree. There are SO many sources for learning photography, there's nothing wrong with working in IT to support you while you build a photography business and learn through seminars and classes.

Good luck with school, and thank you for your service to our great country!

[freaking102]

I know there are a ton of school vs. self-taught threads out there. I've read the arguments for and against both sides. But here's my current situation...

-I'm approaching 30.
-I've already got a B.S. in Info Systems
-If I were to go to Brooks, the sum total of the new GI Bill (approx $104,000) will essentially cover all of the cost to attend. The only thing I'd need is cost of living (about $60k total at the most).

Keeping in mind the current economic situation, should I take my savings and go right into the business? (wedding/events, etc). Or should I take advantage of the GI Bill and get a free degree out of it and potentially face a $60k loan for cost of living?

do you want technical photography training? or do you want to go to art school?
big difference. think about it.
you already got a BA or BS, so why not get an MFA and pursue art rather than photography technical path?

[airfrogusmc]

Assisting will teach you how to carry stuff, but almost nothing about the business. Business is critical, if you want to work for yourself, a photography degree is good if you want to work for someone else.

If you are going to work for IBM then major in business. My business and marketing classes did little to prepare me for a full time career in photography. How many with an MBA graduate and open a business or go to work as a CEO. Very few, if any. Most work in the field for several years before opening a business or getting bumped up the corporate ladder.
My advice get a good education from a good school and major in what you want to do. Not only will what you learn be important also the contacts that you make will be so valuable and being in a creative environment everyday with other creative people is so valuable anyway it was to me. When you get out get a job working for someone whose work you admire and is successful Consider it a continuation of your education.

Oh yeah almost forgot GOOD LUCK and sounds like you are learning a ton. I'll bet you get out and I'll also bet you wind up working in something other than weddings.

[Gentleman Villain]

to the OP...best of luck with your schooling. Thanks for checking back in because it's really interesting to hear what is new with you

[airfrogusmc]

This is just littered with all kinds of bad advice!! It sounds like you didn't take this advice and chose to go to school. GOOD FOR YOU!!

I completely agree with Tim. Being an assistant will slow you down in your desire to start your own business. My advice would have been along the lines of what Tim said, use your IT degree. There are SO many sources for learning photography, there's nothing wrong with working in IT to support you while you build a photography business and learn through seminars and classes.

Good luck with school, and thank you for your service to our great country!


This right here is the worst advice I've read in this thread. With this advice you will wind up being stuck with all the GWCs that follow this advice and that will be your competition.

You need to separate yourself from the herd and being highly skilled and having a couple years assisting experience and the connections that come with that are a great way to separate yourself. I would HIGHLY recommend assisting a very successful pro. It will not only teach you about that particular area of photography first hand but will allow you to make connections. Having a highly skilled niche is a great way to be able to command a decent price for your work and will also keep you in demand. So don't rush getting a shingle out before you have acquired more skill than you can get on the internet and on your own or before you have the connections and knowledge of a particular field. ;)

[Vineet666]

I am from India and had a long time contemplating a business vs photo-degree debate in my head and decided to go for a business in the end.. I must say that some of the things I learnt as a businessman, would have never been possible to know in a school.. but I still miss the feeling of being a part of a community and having a formal degree. I think workshops is probably the way to go in my case. I cannot afford to take a loan and go to the US, nor do I have a military grant which covers the bills, but I can work hard here and take small trips in between to take workshops and get a change of perspective and gain more experience.. or even assist some photographers from time to time in a new country. Let's see how far can I push myself with the ideas of self-inspiration and self-education.

I'm glad you took the decision and went to Brooks though. 20 years down the line, you would have regretted if you didn't.. you are one lucky bastard! All the best :)

[tim]

This right here is the worst advice I've read in this thread. With this advice you will wind up being stuck with all the GWCs that follow this advice and that will be your competition.

You need to separate yourself from the herd and being highly skilled and having a couple years assisting experience and the connections that come with that are a great way to separate yourself. I would HIGHLY recommend assisting a very successful pro. It will not only teach you about that particular area of photography first hand but will allow you to make connections. Having a highly skilled niche is a great way to be able to command a decent price for your work and will also keep you in demand. So don't rush getting a shingle out before you have acquired more skill than you can get on the internet and on your own or before you have the connections and knowledge of a particular field. ;)

I agree with this. My point was assisting won't teach you the business, but you will learn other things.

[airfrogusmc]

I agree with this. My point was assisting won't teach you the business, but you will learn other things.

The best thing is to get a full time job with someone. I learned more about how to run a successful photography business(and in some cases what not to do)in just a couple of months working for someone that was very successful than I learned in all of my business and marketing classes put together though those classes gave me a good base and I would always recommend taking enough to get the basics.

[airfrogusmc]

I am from India and had a long time contemplating a business vs photo-degree debate in my head and decided to go for a business in the end.. I must say that some of the things I learnt as a businessman, would have never been possible to know in a school.. but I still miss the feeling of being a part of a community and having a formal degree. I think workshops is probably the way to go in my case. I cannot afford to take a loan and go to the US, nor do I have a military grant which covers the bills, but I can work hard here and take small trips in between to take workshops and get a change of perspective and gain more experience.. or even assist some photographers from time to time in a new country. Let's see how far can I push myself with the ideas of self-inspiration and self-education.

I'm glad you took the decision and went to Brooks though. 20 years down the line, you would have regretted if you didn't.. you are one lucky bastard! All the best :)

The problem is most really creative people will not do very well in business classes. Its not where the love is or the way the creative mind works 9right brain, left brain).

Most really good and very successful photographers that i know hve really good accounts to handle the money and give them advice on the biz. (I have a great one) if they have a studio they usually have a studio manager to run the studio. Most commercial photographers have reps to help them market . That gives them the freedom to do what they do best. Photography.

Why is it the photographers think they can do it all well? In my opinion its usually the kiss of death(and I've seen them come and go over the years) because if you are really creative the odds of you being a really good with money, running the studio and marketing are pretty slim. Do what you do best and hire people to help you in the areas that you need help in.

The future is even going to become more competitive and many business men that are photographers are going to find harder and harder if they don't have the skills. If you do a business plan any really smart business man would more than likely open a McDonalds rather than a photography business because on paper it just makes more financial sense. So do it for the love of photography and get all the skills, try and get all the bugs worked out before you hang out your shingle. Your rep is going to be your future and you really are only as good as your last job.

Start out without getting the kinks ironed out and all the marketing, good business planning will go right in the toilet because word gets around really fast and its a lot smaller out there than you might think when you don't deliver. Thats my 2 cents.

[ShotByTom]

Good luck finding someone that will hire you to assist, and you'll need more luck trying to survive on what they are willing to pay you. There are no well known studios in my area that are willing to hire an assistant, and be willing to pay anything close to minimum wage.

I would argue that you will learn more from your local photography organizations and by getting an education, than by lugging light stands around for another photographer. There are more pros willing to mentor and work with you, than are willing to pay you and actually give you any kind of creative control over the work coming out of their studio.

A small group of photographers here in Indy, members of our local photography guild, have been trying for three years to do this, none of us have found any studios willing to hire an assistant. The two studios that are within walking distance of my house, and both do very well, are staffed by one photographer and a bunch of college students. The students only do school portraits in a very small closet inside the studio that is always set up with a camera on a stand. They charge $35 for the picture, and the photographer gets $25.

Neither of the studios have ever hired any of the students that interned with them. The successful photographers in our local guild all have moved from another career and into photography.

We all have different experiences, and have found different ways to accomplish the same thing. In my experience, I have never met a successful photographer that started out as an assistant. Every single successful studio involved in our guild is owned by an educated person with a background in another field. The two leading wedding photographers were attorneys at one point. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, just saying that I've haven't seen it.

I take a different approach than airfrogusmc....I agree that a person is very unlikely to go to a business school, come out with a degree in accounting and then decide to become a photographer. I consider myself to be a photographer who happens to be a police officer. I have a plan and have been working on more formal education, and plan to work full time as a photographer in 7 years, when I retire from the police department. I have several friends who are also photographers working as police officers who are doing very well as sports photographers.

Again...there isn't one path that leads to becoming a full time photographer. There are a ton of resources out there that will let you gain valuable experience and knowledge without making $25 a day lugging around light stands for another photographer.



Oh...and what's a GWC?

[airfrogusmc]

Good luck finding someone that will hire you to assist, and you'll need more luck trying to survive on what they are willing to pay you. There are no well known studios in my area that are willing to hire an assistant, and be willing to pay anything close to minimum wage.

I would argue that you will learn more from your local photography organizations and by getting an education, than by lugging light stands around for another photographer. There are more pros willing to mentor and work with you, than are willing to pay you and actually give you any kind of creative control over the work coming out of their studio.

A small group of photographers here in Indy, members of our local photography guild, have been trying for three years to do this, none of us have found any studios willing to hire an assistant. The two studios that are within walking distance of my house, and both do very well, are staffed by one photographer and a bunch of college students. The students only do school portraits in a very small closet inside the studio that is always set up with a camera on a stand. They charge $35 for the picture, and the photographer gets $25.

Neither of the studios have ever hired any of the students that interned with them. The successful photographers in our local guild all have moved from another career and into photography.

We all have different experiences, and have found different ways to accomplish the same thing. In my experience, I have never met a successful photographer that started out as an assistant. Every single successful studio involved in our guild is owned by an educated person with a background in another field. The two leading wedding photographers were attorneys at one point.

Well I guess it all depends on whether you want to shoot weddings or commercial work. The future of wedding photography I'm afraid with all the flood of all the GWCs in doesn't look all that bright. I don't personally know any successful commercial photographers that didn't assist for a really successful commercial shooter. Its really hard to get into commercial/advertising work without the inside knowledge and a few connections to open the door. And you are right those jobs are not easy to get but how bad do you want it. Nothing in this industry is easy nor is it going to get any easier.

[ShotByTom]

Well I guess it all depends on whether you want to shoot weddings or commercial work. The future of wedding photography I'm afraid with all the flood of all the GWCs in doesn't look all that bright. I don't personally know any successful commercial photographers that didn't assist for a really successful commercial shooter. Its really hard to get into commercial/advertising work without the inside knowledge and a few connections to open the door. And you are right those jobs are not easy to get but how bad do you want it. Nothing in this industry is easy nor is it going to get any easier.

Two of our members were college students last year and interned for a very successful commercial studio. They have the most amazing studio I've ever seen! Both of them were hired their senior year and now work full time as photographers. Commercial work is very different, and I think requires a different route than weddings and portraits. They also have a few full time marketing staff...

GWC's??

[airfrogusmc]

Two of our members were college students last year and interned for a very successful commercial studio. They have the most amazing studio I've ever seen! Both of them were hired their senior year and now work full time as photographers. Commercial work is very different, and I think requires a different route than weddings and portraits. They also have a few full time marketing staff...

GWC's??

GUY WITH CAMERA whose adds clog craigslist and are a real thorn in the side of the high volume low to medium end and small low to medium end wedding photographers. The only real wedding shooters I see that have it half way safe are the really high end shooters and its only going to keep getting harder and harder to make it as a full time photographer in that field.

[Doc Fluty]

I own a successful non-photography business but have been contemplating going into photography/web design as a 2nd income.

I hired 2 separate web design companies to create a website for me and each sucked. Both took over 6 months and created nothing more than a guy on craigslist prolly could have. So during that time i learned how to create websites myself. I also have dabbled into video with my 5d2 because i want to create short tutorials on for my website.

so now armed with adobe creative master suite cs5.. im tempted of really getting into things.

my only concern is that while i think i could create nice clean websites and some nice photos.. sometime is see a website or photo that is so far beyond me creative wise that i just dont think i would be special enough to actually gain any respectable income. I could probably do wedding or portraiture because those are not too creative intensive. Location, light and shallow depths of field usually impress most people i know.

However i seen a photographer who took a shot of a coast line with an amtrack train going around a 100 foot tall cup of coffee.. and i was like.. whoa

(i found those ads to see here for you guys http://rebeccagbailey.com/the-beauty-of-california-amtraks-new-ads/)

I could never imagine something like that on my own.

So while i build up my photo gear again.. i will continue taking shots of friends cars, truck and motorcycles.

Does brooks have a class on how to be creative? lol

[airfrogusmc]

The one thing that going to a GOOD school to learn photography is that your creativity can be nurtured and brought out to its fullest and you are taught things that most would never take the time to learn on their own. And yeah its great to take one good photo of a train and a designer drop in a coffee cup but the key to success is not one good photograph no more than one good at bat in the majors would make you an MVP. You need a strong body of work and if you are a full time photographer, you need to be able to create everyday because you're only as good as your last photo shoot. And the train shot has lees to do with the photographer in this case and more to do with the art director and designers. This kind of work isn't really my thing. I prefer to work with those that take a more straight approach as do I. Bresson wold go as far as to send out letters with his work reminding people that his work was copyrighted and that none of his images were to be cropped or altered in any fashion.