Trouble with indoor soccer

[drmac]

My son plays indoor soccer and the lighting is poor. I have tried several different settings including M, AV, and TV, but I can't get the right combination. Does anyone have suggestions?

I have a 40D with a 70-200 2.8IS... I will typicall shoot in RAW to make adjustments.

Should I shoot with a low exposure or right on? Other ideas?


BTW - I cannot use a flash...


Thanks for your help!

[EOS_JD]

What ISO are you using?

[EOS_JD]

Indoor use means slow shutter speed - even with a 2.8 lens. I'd suggest ISO1600, f2.8 and camera in Av. M if you know what the light is like). See what shutter speed you get. If the camera underexposes, you may need to add some EC but that may reduce your shutter speed more. Without flash I doubt very much that you will be able to get a high enough shutter speed. You probably need in excess of 1/250th

[JeffreyG]

Indoors you might as well shoot in M mode as it is not likely that the lighting will be changing.

Here is how I would approach this before the game starts:
M
AI Servo
Burst

Set the aperture to f/2.8, shutter speed to 1/500 and ISO to 1600. Take a picture of a referee or player warming up....find someone wearing white if at all possible. Now look at the histogram for this shot. Given their white outfit, you should be able to find some pixels that are lighting up the rightmost 1/5th of the histogram that correspond to the white clothes.

If the histogram is bunched to the left then it is too dark. Change ISO to 3200 and try again. Still too dark? Drop the shutter speed to 1/400 or even 1/320. If you have to go under 1/320 put the camera away and peer through the gloom at the game. You need a faster prime lens at this point.

If the histogram runs off the right side and the white parts are blinking it is too bright (this won't happen to you most likely). If so just speed up the shutter a bit or drop the ISO until the histogram looks right.

Once you have followed this process before the game you can shoot the entire game with these settings you dialed in up front. This is the good part about working in M mode. The only reason this would not work is if the arena were lit very unevenly....like if a whole bank of lights were turned off at one end or something.

[EOS_JD]

I've had many decent footy shoys at 1/250th and less however for fast actiuon shots I agree that you should aim for 1/500th.

Regards ISO, I try to avoid ISO3200 but I sppose it depends on the camera. However if that's what gives your correct exposure then it may the only way to go.

I shoot in M but given that the OP wasn't sure I thought a semi auto mode may suit but either will work. I agree check your histogram.

I should have said AI Servo should be used. Half press the shutter and follow your target and the camera should work to keep it in focus. Also in that regard, set your camera to centre focus point only. Keep your target on the centre point. You will see the camera track your subject so long as you keep the focus button (default is a half press of the shutter) depressed.
Do you have an example of the shots you've taken and some exif info?

[S.Horton]

ISO 3200
f/2.8
AI Servo
Center Point AF Only
M
Set shutter speed such that you get a histogram reasonably well exposed

[drmac]

I shot 3200 in the past, but had noise issues... Thanks for the tips. He has two games today so I let you know how it goes....

[drmac]

Is it OK to under expose? If so, how much?

[DDCSD]

Is it OK to under expose? If so, how much?

It is less than desirable, as upping the exposure using software will also up the noise. With that being said, I'd rather have a noisy image, that I can use a noise reduction program on, than a blurry shot that can't be saved.

I'd say underexpose it to where you have 1/500s shutter speed, as long as that isn't making everything so dark that you lose all of your shadow detail. If you are losing your shadow detail, just adjust the SS until you have a decent amount.

[drmac]

It is less than desirable, as upping the exposure using software will also up the noise. With that being said, I'd rather have a noisy image, that I can use a noise reduction program on, than a blurry shot that can't be saved.

I'd say underexpose it to where you have 1/500s shutter speed, as long as that isn't making everything so dark that you lose all of your shadow detail. If you are losing your shadow detail, just adjust the SS until you have a decent amount.


thanks! I will let you know how it goes

[EOS_JD]

It is less than desirable, as upping the exposure using software will also up the noise. With that being said, I'd rather have a noisy image, that I can use a noise reduction program on, than a blurry shot that can't be saved.

I'd say underexpose it to where you have 1/500s shutter speed, as long as that isn't making everything so dark that you lose all of your shadow detail. If you are losing your shadow detail, just adjust the SS until you have a decent amount.

Yes... The OP would be better using a high ISO and getting a correct exposure than a lower ISO and correcting. Noise is much more of a problem on an under exposed image. His shooting conditions are obviously less than ideal and you can only do what you can.

[danaitch]

Buy a cheap light meter and take a reading. Then you can shoot the correct exposure in 'M'. If you use Av or TV, your exposure will vary dependant on the jersey colours of whoever's in frame at the time.

When you take your reading, try and do it in the playing area, and tilt the dome downwards by about 45 degrees, otherwise it'll expose for the light that comes straight down, rather than the 'ambient' light that will be on the players' faces.

Shoot as low an ISO as the conditions will allow, and then recover your noise problems in post-processing. If you under expose and then recover during PP, I tend to find the noise is higher than doing it the other way around.

Have fun!

[EOS_JD]

Buy a cheap light meter and take a reading. Then you can shoot the correct exposure in 'M'. If you use Av or TV, your exposure will vary dependant on the jersey colours of whoever's in frame at the time.

When you take your reading, try and do it in the playing area, and tilt the dome downwards by about 45 degrees, otherwise it'll expose for the light that comes straight down, rather than the 'ambient' light that will be on the players' faces.

Shoot as low an ISO as the conditions will allow, and then recover your noise problems in post-processing. If you under expose and then recover during PP, I tend to find the noise is higher than doing it the other way around.

Have fun!

In this situation I'm not sure a light meter will be of any great use. Sure it will help make a correct exposure but the camera's meter should be able to do a decent job and a careful eye on the histogram will make sure.

Shooting a low ISO is what we stated above but in order to get decent shutter speeds I fear he may need to be at 1600 or even 3200.....

Noise will be far higher underexposing than getting a correct exposure in-camera. Even underexposing at ISO100 will give noisy results when corrected.

[S.Horton]

..the lights will cycle anyway.

[danaitch]

In this situation I'm not sure a light meter will be of any great use. Sure it will help make a correct exposure but the camera's meter should be able to do a decent job and a careful eye on the histogram will make sure.



I disagree with your contention that the camera's meter will do well under those conditions.

What if one team's in light blue, the other in white?

What if one's in dark blue, the other in red?

What if one's in dark jerseys, the other light?

A meter reading is the only way to get consistent, accurate exposures.

Looking at the histogram means it's too late to recover the image you shot, other than in PP.

[EOS_JD]

I disagree with your contention that the camera's meter will do well under those conditions.

What if one team's in light blue, the other in white?

What if one's in dark blue, the other in red?

What if one's in dark jerseys, the other light?

A meter reading is the only way to get consistent, accurate exposures.

Looking at the histogram means it's too late to recover the image you shot, other than in PP.

I do see what you are saying yes. What kind of meter though? A reflective reading or a spot reading? Your camera will do the same job as a meter regards a reflective reading and spot meters are very expensive! OK You can try and get a reading before the game starts but you would be assuming the tog chas access to these areas.

Shooting in M will give very consistent results I was only trying to put a simple perspective - how many carry meters around?

OK I actually do :) but only cause I do weddings. Most dont.

I don't disagree with what you are saying at all though.

[JeffreyG]

I do see what you are saying yes. What kind of meter though? A reflective reading or a spot reading? Your camera will do the same job as a meter regards a reflective reading and spot meters are very expensive! OK You can try and get a reading before the game starts but you would be assuming the tog chas access to these areas.

Shooting in M will give very consistent results I was only trying to put a simple perspective - how many carry meters around?

OK I actually do :) but only cause I do weddings. Most dont.

I don't disagree with what you are saying at all though.

Do you mean 'incident meter' when you say 'spot meter'? Because most Canon bodies have a spot meter capability with the reflective meter.

[EOS_JD]

Do you mean 'incident meter' when you say 'spot meter'? Because most Canon bodies have a spot meter capability with the reflective meter.

haha you know what! terrible to say but I actually forgot about my newer body having the spot meter facility!!! DOH!

I have 2 bodies - a 20D which I've used for 3 years and a 40D. I've yet to use the spot metering on that and have used my light meter more! Thanks for reminding me.

[JeffreyG]

haha you know what! terrible to say but I actually forgot about my newer body having the spot meter facility!!! DOH!

I have 2 bodies - a 20D which I've used for 3 years and a 40D. I've yet to use the spot metering on that and have used my light meter more! Thanks for reminding me.

The spot meter was one of the two 'features' that the 30D had over the 20D. The other was a larget LCD. Otherwise they are nearly the same camera.

[EOS_JD]

The spot meter was one of the two 'features' that the 30D had over the 20D. The other was a larget LCD. Otherwise they are nearly the same camera.

yes I know. Not sure why but I just never had the need to use it yet.