How much to charge for this situation...

[BaseballPhotographer]

A lady wants me to come take pictures of her and family so she can have them printed on Christmas Cards. She wants me to travel to a local park about 20 minutes away from my house and take pictures of her family and put some of her favorite pictures on a CD and make Christmas Cards. I'm not sure what to ask for her because I usually don't sell CD's, I usually just sell prints. But, I guess a CD is the only way to do it since I don't print Christmas cards. I know I would need enough money to cover gas, my services, the cost of the CD, and a little extra. Any advice,hints, or tips are greatly appreciated. I have always valued everyones opinion on here, so thank you in advance for any help.

Stephen

[thebishopp]

How about 50 bucks an hour with a 3 hour minimum? Time starts the moment you walk out the door. This includes your PP (whatever you do plus cropping) of the pictures as well as putting it on cd. You may want to go to 75 an hour if it is a large family or you think that there might be a lot of PP work to do.

[BaseballPhotographer]

Thats exactly what I was thinking is 50.00 an hour. Im pretty sure there is only 5 in the family. So, I don't think we will be shooting for 3 hours. She just wants to get a few nice frames of the family and pick a few for her cards. Then I would go home and PP them, put them on a CD and give them to her. So maybe 100.00 total for the shoot and the PP. Well, it depends on how long the shoot is, I was guesing about an hour, but it could be shorter or longer depending on the client.

[thebishopp]

An hour flies. I helped a friend out with some shots of him, his fiancee, and their two kids. One hour turned into 4 really quick lol. The main issue was the kids. One was a babe and the other was 4 I think. Trying to get the kids in "sync" was the main issue.

[BaseballPhotographer]

Well, im not sure how old the kids are. We'll just do 50.00 an hour and see how long it takes.

[tehshocker]

I would do 50 with a 2 hour minimum. That way even if you finish the shoot early you can charge 100.00

[Alleh]

Ummm I would charge $200 for an hour then maybe $75 for each additional.

[Karl Johnston]

Ummm I would charge $200 for an hour then maybe $75 for each additional.

Why?

[rickydiver]

Kajuah, Alleh probably said $200 an hour as he makes a living from Photography and if you do then $200 is not unreasonable in my opinion!
Ricky

[Karl Johnston]

Well so do I, but how do you justify 200 $ an hour ? Where is that money going and why is it going there?

[Li_Photo]

$50 an hour with 2 hours min sounds reasonable for something like that.

[LBaldwin]

Hey Stephen,

For something like this, where you won't get any extra income from print sales 150 does not cut it. There are post production, color correction and resizing issues to deal with too.

You know that she will use the images for other uses other than just the cards too so...

The xmas cards are a usage but not the only one and it is somewhat misleading until you do this and relize that she actually wants all images shot, with full reprints and no further cash to you. I would charge no less than 450-650 for this gig.

Newbie photographers need to understand that leaving cash on the table only prevents you from raising prices in the future.

[Karl Johnston]

$450-650?!?!?!?

A gig like this could literally be done in less than a couple of hours with a couple people.

$ 150 for the whole shoot; I can see if you were to consider your wage, your gas money, post production if you have the time and the client wants it.

Do everything from a laptop in the car and zip out a CD. Hell even take a portable battery and a small printer for a custom CD cover if you really wanted to. Chances are that's not necessary though if she just wants a CD.

Newbie photographers, professional photographers or not ...someone's going to have to tell me how on earth you convince the client exactly where the amount of money is going to justify the amount of work something like this would take. Otherwise client will hit the roof and find a cheaper photographer to work with !

Nobody in their right mind who wasn't aching for a place to blow cash would buy a CD with full res images, regardless of their usage, for half a grand.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

I'd charge $150 as well.

[egordon99]

OK, chances are he's NOT billing 40 hours a week at $200/hour (like a day job)
Out of that needs to come -
-Income Tax
-Self-employment tax (if you are a W2 employee, your employers takes care of half of this)
-Health insurance
-Office space/PCs/other equipment (again, if you have a day job, your employer probably provides you with all of this)
-Mileage/wear-tear on your car

So at the end of the day, it's not like he's raking in $8K a week. My employer probably bills me out at $150/hour to our customers, but I sure as heck don't see all that. But they do provide me a nice place to work, nice health insurance, etc....

As for the original post, I charge $100 for up to an hour of location shooting ($75 each additional hour) and deliver a CD/DVD of all the high resolution "keepers" from the shoot, I (currently) don't do prints.

but how do you justify 200 $ an hour ? Where is that money going and why is it going there?

[airfrogusmc]

I would charge my regular rates which would be a MIN of $150 per hour, two hour min, plus all expenses and at least $500 for a disc and only final images on the disc. So I would e-mail her a low res contact sheet to pick from then let her pick say 10 images for the disc and those will be art worked, color balanced and saved as high res tiffs. The reason $500 for the disc is the lost revenue for letting her do the cards herself. So it looks like 2 X $150 + $65 for an hour of photoshop + $500 for the disc so thats $865 min.

[egordon99]

But you have that 200mm f/2 IS to pay off ;)

So it looks like 2 X $150 + $65 for an hour of photoshop + $500 for the disc so thats $865 min.



I kid, I LOVE looking at the photos you post :)

[airfrogusmc]

But you have that 200mm f/2 IS to pay off ;)





I kid, I LOVE looking at the photos you post :)

Thanks but I also have a mortgage, and health insurance for both me and the Mrs, and business insurance, car insurance and I have to pay quarterly taxes so this is what feeds me and my family. If you do get work and do good work and you are professional in your approach, your service is worth something. If you give yourself away you are saying that you don't think your talent has value. Value that talent and so will your clients.

[zagiace]

200 for the first hour and 75 for additional comes out to just under 100 per hour and under 800 per day rate. That is not unreasonable. If I recall that was a average day rate a few years ago.
In addition if you make your money from photography I would find a way to get those cards printed. It is great advertising for your studio when you add your logo to the back.

[airfrogusmc]

200 for the first hour and 75 for additional comes out to just under 100 per hour and under 800 per day rate. That is not unreasonable. If I recall that was a average day rate a few years ago.
In addition if you make your money from photography I would find a way to get those cards printed. It is great advertising for your studio when you add your logo to the back.

Why would you lower your hourly after the first hour? Day rates should be at least a grand a day. My day rate is my hourly and that is usually $175-$300 per hour depending on the client and the assignment.

[_aravena]

I'd $50-$100 an hour. Sweet and simple and a good starting place. It really depends on your professional level and what not. I Just charged a lady $90 for the same thing. Should I have charged more? Probably considering she wants it done over the weekend , the shoot is on the 20th and they are for cards. But I've gotten a lot of business from her and she's helped me get even more business so I charged less than what I thought because of how this situation has played out.

It's like coupons. Businesses give them out to keep ya coming back! You may not have coupons but you can say, "Well I usually charge this but for you and blah blah blah, I'll charge this."

Once again, all depends. I still say what the majority of everyone else has said is the way to go. Because if you do something stupid and charge $450 they'll go to some dept store studio and still pay as much after they printed the 60 4x6's they need at $5 each and the sitting fee of $40 and $10 per person after the initial etc...but they didn't know that until they took the photos. When I worked at The Picture People, I sold $600 worth of photos so easily and that was...18 sheets (which included an 8x10, 2x 5x7, or 4x 4x6 on a sheet) Yeah, not much.

[zagiace]

Not actually my rate nor how I charge for a family portrait location shoot. I was referring to Alleh's comment and the posts suggesting his rates were outrageous.
Not sure what the average day rate is now days as I haven't check for a few years. Don't even remember where I read about it originally.
But, I can see the logic in charging more for the first hour as typically my location portrait sessions take about 1 1/2 hours at most. If I want $275 for the session it may be easier for a potential client to hear $200 for the first hour and 75 for additional and typically take 1-2 hours then saying rates are $200 per hour.

[airfrogusmc]

My rates are very reasonable for what clients get which is my talent and expertise. You are worth what you can get and if you don't have another day job the expenses won't get covered by $70 an hour.

[Karl Johnston]

I suppose it's imp. to consider your market, around here I sure as hell wouldn't get away with 650 an hour with the competition doing 50-100 per hour. A shoot like that, it'd take me less than an hour then within the second hour we'd have prints done and framed. Mind you I work with 2 people, and this town is only 3 kms long.

Mind you printing would cost more, but that's if I were doing my own thing. In his case, what's happening is he's going for a shoot for 1 hour and then giving out a CD, just the CD. How can you charge 650 $ for a CD (0.05 cents per CD) and 649.95 for the rest of the one hour?

A lady wants me to come take pictures of her and family so she can have them printed on Christmas Cards. She wants me to travel to a local park about 20 minutes away from my house and take pictures of her family and put some of her favorite pictures on a CD and make Christmas Cards. I'm not sure what to ask for her because I usually don't sell CD's, I usually just sell prints. But, I guess a CD is the only way to do it since I don't print Christmas cards. I know I would need enough money to cover gas, my services, the cost of the CD, and a little extra. Any advice,hints, or tips are greatly appreciated. I have always valued everyones opinion on here, so thank you in advance for any help.


What do you say to the person? I really don't dispute the price, I dispute how on earth you get away with charging so HIGH without losing the client.

[airfrogusmc]

I suppose it's imp. to consider your market, around here I sure as hell wouldn't get away with 650 an hour with the competition doing 50-100 per hour. A shoot like that, it'd take me less than an hour then within the second hour we'd have prints done and framed. Mind you I work with 2 people, and this town is only 3 kms long.

Mind you printing would cost more, but that's if I were doing my own thing. In his case, what's happening is he's going for a shoot for 1 hour and then giving out a CD, just the CD. How can you charge 650 $ for a CD (0.05 cents per CD) and 649.95 for the rest of the one hour?



What do you say to the person? I really don't dispute the price, I dispute how on earth you get away with charging so HIGH without losing the client.

One word

QUALITY

And I've always said if you have something your competition doesn't have (your vision) then seek out the market that will appreciate that approach. Theres always a market for quality. And the KEY is QUALITY.

Also you need to try and not follow what the others are doing visually. If you're different then clients will see that. I have the very first client I had when I started. I've picked up dozens more but again its service and quality that keep them coming back and will allow you to get your price and the client will see it as a real bargin.

Thats what will keep you busy and thats what will allow you to make a decent living. Well anyway its worked for me.

[TAZorich]

My current rate is $50/hour. Strictly as an hourly wage, that's a lot more than most Americans make. If I can't get 40 hours of work at $50/hour, it's NOT okay for me to make up for that deficiency by spreading the difference among whatever customers I CAN get. And if you can't get 40 hours of work per week in your chosen field, you probably shouldn't be a full-time (whatever).

The original response of $50/hour is right on. Don't mention anything about a "two hour minimum" or any BS like that. It will take you however long it takes you, probably in the 1-2 hour range for the actual shooting, and at least an hour afterwards. If you want to add something for the CD, that's your call. (I often include the CD, but also charge for editing/post time.)

[zagiace]

If you charge your client $50 an hour that is your billable rate, not your hourly wage. You still have:
Travel (unless they are coming to your studio)
Pre-Production (charging batteries, packing equip, cleaning sensors...)
Post-Production (burnuing DVD's, Color Correcting, Retouching, transferring, converting)
Expenses (equipment, food, props, assistants, insurance...)

I figure that for every hour I spend shooting I probably spend 2 times that in "Other" times/ expenses.
So, my math would take $50 an hour and immediately figure that probably translates to $15-20 an hour.
Not figuring out how much a shoot really costs you is a costly mistake.

[LBaldwin]

You know it is kind of odd, I wonder how many of the posters have ACTUALLY had to rely on your photographic skills to eat, pay the bills etc.

Some you say that you charge this - or that figure, but how often do you get it and can you provide actual invoices to show proof of same?

Until you do your first second and third year taxes to show EXACTLY what you spent down to the nickel my guess is that many have no real clue where your business is at financially. The real answer for the OP and those that are shooting for food and clothes, is get as much as you can for each shoot and DO NOT LEAVE CASH on the table.

You often hear - I charge such and such or I have a flat fee, or Hey a CD only costs 99c..

What are your SKILLS worth. If your clients are doing business with you on the basis of costs then you are just a copy machine, not a photographer. I have been doing this for a living both with and without an 'real" job for over 30 years now. And the same issues keep coming up. Will you be in business next year?

[Natural Imagez]

$100.00 is more than enough to charge. i would charge 50.00 to show up and shoot for an hour and they buy prints of my smugmug page. they do offer x-mas cards. but in your case she is going to take the images to wallmart and print her xmas cards for about .10 a piece. so the extra 50.00 your charging is probably more than she is going to spend on prints anyway (thus covering your lost prints). you tell her 200.00+ in today's economy she is going to tell you no thanks.

[Karl Johnston]

Will you be in business next year?

I think i'd be outta business in a week, permanently. So you say your skills are worth 500/hour? Regardless of tax (the higher the rate, the more tax you take!), post processing (Come on...it doesn't take an hour per image), travel expenses (20 minutes in this case is like 2 bucks in fuel if you drive a big truck!), materials cost (CD for 99 c?)..that's high.

If you can do that, that's cool ! I know nothing about your market, where you live, your clients and their incomes...but if I were to do that where I live, in this market, to my clients, based on this level of work ... really it doesn't matter about "skill" worth. A family generally doesn't have a lot of money to burn, I'd feel cruel charging THAT high for something like this. A session that lasted at least 3 hours, yeah I can see 150 $ an hour but 450-650 an HOUR?

All I can say to that is thankfully you've got someone willing to work with you ! :D

[zagiace]

Kajuah you got me confused.
I re-read the thread in case I missed it but who said they charge 500 per hour? or do an hours worth of post on a single image (admittedly sometimes I do.)?
And travel expenses are more then just gas, there is time, wear and tear, insurance and where I am parking....
Its up to you what you charge. I was just attempting to make a point that there is a lot to consider when you come up with your quoted hourly rate. If you feel $50 is what your clientele will pay then by all means figure out how to make that amount work for you.

Will you be in business next year?

I think i'd be outta business in a week, permanently. So you say your skills are worth 500/hour? Regardless of tax (the higher the rate, the more tax you take!), post processing (Come on...it doesn't take an hour per image), travel expenses (20 minutes in this case is like 2 bucks in fuel if you drive a big truck!), materials cost (CD for 99 c?)..that's high.

If you can do that, that's cool ! I know nothing about your market, where you live, your clients and their incomes...but if I were to do that where I live, in this market, to my clients, based on this level of work ... really it doesn't matter about "skill" worth. A family generally doesn't have a lot of money to burn, I'd feel cruel charging THAT high for something like this. A session that lasted at least 3 hours, yeah I can see 150 $ an hour but 450-650 an HOUR?

All I can say to that is thankfully you've got someone willing to work with you ! :D

[yankees2519]

Kajuah you got me confused.
I re-read the thread in case I missed it but who said they charge 500 per hour? or do an hours worth of post on a single image (admittedly sometimes I do.)?
And travel expenses are more then just gas, there is time, wear and tear, insurance and where I am parking....
Its up to you what you charge. I was just attempting to make a point that there is a lot to consider when you come up with your quoted hourly rate. If you feel $50 is what your clientele will pay then by all means figure out how to make that amount work for you.

someone said $550, but deleted their post

[Karl Johnston]

Specifically LesBaldwin said for this instance he would charge 450-650 an hour based on travel expenses, taxes, the fact that he does it for a living and that his skill is enough to justify the cost.. still waiting for that response. Not trying to be obnoxious or anything, at least not on purpose, but I'd really like to know how.

[zagiace]

I see what you mean, He was not quoting hourly but the rate he would charge for the whole gig.
Truly not unreasonable considering the OP's client is requesting a CD for reprinting. Many studio's / photographers will charge much more if the client is requesting the images on CD to be printed elsewhere. You lose any reprint profits, and depending on location you maybe forfeiting copyright.
IMO these days many photographers do not give high resolution images enough value considering what it takes to produce them. (not meaning the .99 cent lol.)

[LBaldwin]

I never said per hour, I said if you look at my post "for the gig". For the entire job. Charging by the hour is for plumbers and electricians, all needed skills but not much creativity to speak of. I don't advertise, no longer have a website and only have old sample images in a few places. My customers come to me and stay with me.

In California if I provide them with a CD (which I would rarely do anyway) there are no sales taxes, since electronics transfers are not taxed!!

I don't charge on a per hour basis, if I did my business would go under quickly. My job is to create unique images for my clients, provide them with licensing for those images if needed and or custom prints when asked. I get paid well because I charge for it. I make sure that I always pay myself first
If you are interested in how I bill drop me a PM I'd be glad to help but if course there is the fee..... lol

[Karl Johnston]

Ahh okay now I understand.. that makes more sense.

[LBaldwin]

The primary reason I don't like to provide a CD with either edited or RAW images is two fold.
1. It has a built in loss of potential income. From two primary sources depending on the shoot type A. is lack of total image control. I like to present my images directly to client and control all aspects of that sale, I have rarely like what secondary printers have done to my images.
2. Loss of the print sales themselves. If the client go and takes the CD to an outside vendor then I loose that revenue stream, as well as the tax base. Sales are what we do so letting another business handle it takes cash out of your pockets.

[airfrogusmc]

I charge by the hour and I have a two hour min. Sometimes they ask for a bid but I have mostly repeat clients and have had them for years. They call I come out and shoot and send them an invoice and my prices are by the hour plus expenses and usage. My day rate equals my hourly rate. Most of my work goes to media, newspapers, magazines, internal publications, etc. I work allot with art directors and graphic designers. Rarely do I sell individual prints but when I do, I like Les, want the control over the final image.

I don't advertise or have a site either. My clients would never higher a photographer without a recommendation. I have a few dozen clients and don't know if I could take on any more at this point.