street shooting - less prolific equipment?

[Jaykue]

Hi all,

My name is Jay, and I don't usually post outside the Urban Life Photo Sharing section. Currently, I'm still very much learning, where I mostly enjoy taking urban photographs. I'm pretty damn eager though to learn the ins and outs of street photography.

The qualm I have, however, is the equipment. I don't know if anybody feels the same way, but I find that even the 400d and wide angle lens that I use is pretty prolific and prone to attention. I would rather be a quiet observer for this genre and use something less intrusive - I think it's most effective. I know that many old school street shooters, used small filmed based cameras i.e. leica etc.

So I wanted to ask whether anybody felt the same way, and if so, with what gear they used to resolve this issue. I'm willing to purchase another small camera just for street photography. But I don't want to jeapordize the quality I've grown accustomed to with the 400d and, 17-40L. I know camera info, specs etc is out there, but I'm hoping for some introductory direction, before I delve into a reading frenzy of a gazillion pages (I'm pretty horrible when it comes down to technicalities and equipment specs).

If you have an opposing view to this approach, I'd also like to hear your reasoning

Cheers

Jay

[D_CeLiRaToR]

get a 70-200 and wrap it in urban cammo :P but seriously with a longer lens you can be further away from the action without being noticed and still get a good shot.

[TheHoff]

Many, many street shooters are waiting for an affordable digital street camera, rangefinder or otherwise. Your current options:

Leica M8 (or variant) -- extremely expensive all around, mediocre IQ, smallish

Epson DP-1 -- expensive but less than the Leica on the used market, pretty good IQ but a dead-end system, no longer made or supported, lenses are all around though

Some film rangefinder -- Voigtlander, Leica, etc. Of course you'll have to develop and scan.

Olympus E-420 or similar 4/3rds based sensor -- much smaller DSLR but a much smaller sensor. Good quality lenses, pretty big selection but not a lot of primes, good IQ but it has limitations of a smaller and less complex camera than your Canon. Olympus also has a small P/S street type camera coming out that looks interesting, was announced at Photokina.

A good P/S like G-10 or Panasonic LX3 -- very small, good IQ, not so high on ISO, but of course no lens options... this is probably the best choice if size is your concern


Leica will likely come out with an M9 that is better but more expensive... Rumors say Nikon might make a rangefinder some day... other than that? It is a niche market and not many want to fill it. I don't personally support the philosophy of shooting street by using a long lens and sniping. The results are not as engaging nevermind the voyeuristic aspect.

[AB8ND]

You might try the Sigma Dp1 or when it comes out this spring the Dp2
These are quirky little cameras with amazing IQ. You might take a look at the Sigma forum on DPreviews, search for street.

Jack

[TheHoff]

There's going to be a DP2?! Whoa, I missed that news :D

[Jaykue]

thanks guys for the comments and recommendations so far.

d_celirator - i'm not a big fan of the telephoto look for street photography. i prefer the wide angle, with perspective and angular lines all over the place just so it feels like you're in the midst of the action and activity.

thehoff - thanks for all those recommendations. i'll definitely look into those options, but initially i was hoping for one solution with a fixed lens size or no lens options - something between the 10-40mm range. i guess i wouldn't mind a decent iso either, since night street photography is an area i'd to explore. i also completely agree with your philosophy on street shooting.

AB8nd - thank you, i'll definitely look into that option as well. i've always been one for the quirky alternative :)

[Ook]

thanks guys for the comments and recommendations so far.

d_celirator - i'm not a big fan of the telephoto look for street photography. i prefer the wide angle, with perspective and angular lines all over the place just so it feels like you're in the midst of the action and activity.

thehoff - thanks for all those recommendations. i'll definitely look into those options, but initially i was hoping for one solution with a fixed lens size or no lens options - something between the 10-40mm range. i guess i wouldn't mind a decent iso either, since night street photography is an area i'd to explore. i also completely agree with your philosophy on street shooting.

AB8nd - thank you, i'll definitely look into that option as well. i've always been one for the quirky alternative :)

I think that all the shiny badges and red rings on the camera might be attracting as much attention as the size - a bit of electrical tape might be the cheapest solution.

[TheHoff]

thanks guys for the comments and recommendations so far.

d_celirator - i'm not a big fan of the telephoto look for street photography. i prefer the wide angle, with perspective and angular lines all over the place just so it feels like you're in the midst of the action and activity.

thehoff - thanks for all those recommendations. i'll definitely look into those options, but initially i was hoping for one solution with a fixed lens size or no lens options - something between the 10-40mm range. i guess i wouldn't mind a decent iso either, since night street photography is an area i'd to explore. i also completely agree with your philosophy on street shooting.

AB8nd - thank you, i'll definitely look into that option as well. i've always been one for the quirky alternative :)


Panasonic LX3. That is a good fit (fast, wide zoom), no lens options, lowest price of almost anything I listed.

[AB8ND]

Hoff

DP2 will have a 24.2mm (41mm on a 35mm SLR) f/2.8 lens, supposed to be a bit fast processing

jack

[Ook]

Hoff

DP2 will have a 24.2mm (41mm on a 35mm SLR) f/2.8 lens, supposed to be a bit fast processing

jack

Yes, I found that a bit surprising, as the dp1 was a 28mm equivalent FOV. I'd find 41mm to be a bit tight personally, for generally walkaround. My A650IS starts at 35mm equiv., and there are lots of times when I want wider. Don't much care about the telephoto end for walkarounds.

[dig-it-al]

Can you place the camera in a shoe box or other such container with an opening for the lens at one end and a remote or wireless shutter release? Or set up a small table, near the action but not interfering with pedestrian traffic, with a chess game and place the camera in a "game case". You should get plenty of interest from spectators watching 2 people play chess.

[CooperTown]

Can you place the camera in a shoe box or other such container with an opening for the lens at one end and a remote or wireless shutter release? Or set up a small table, near the action but not interfering with pedestrian traffic, with a chess game and place the camera in a "game case". You should get plenty of interest from spectators watching 2 people play chess.

Why all the stealth about street photography on these forums?? Huge tele lenses, shooting everything from the hip, putting camera's in boxes!!

You are more likely I would think to get your lights punched out if you were caught wandering around surreptitously photographing people with a hidden camera. It's a bit weird and creepy.

What's wrong with putting your camera up to your eye and taking a photo? I've been doing it for years without an issue.

[AB8ND]

One reason rangefinders, read that Leica, where and still are preferred is that the view finder in on the left side. This allows one to compose and focus with the right eye and watch what is going on with the other eye. You must learn to shot close to people all the time making them think you are shooting anything put them. Now if only I could actually to this.
I use a Sigma Dp1 with a Voigtlander viewfinder mounted on it.

jack

[CooperTown]

One reason rangefinders, read that Leica, where and still are preferred is that the view finder in on the left side. This allows one to compose and focus with the right eye and watch what is going on with the other eye. You must learn to shot close to people all the time making them think you are shooting anything put them. Now if only I could actually to this.
I use a Sigma Dp1 with a Voigtlander viewfinder mounted on it.

jack

n
Is that directed at me?? Yes I know what a rangefinder is. Yes I know what a Leica is. What's your point?

[AB8ND]

No, not directed at anyone, more agreeing with you.
Although I am saying that Leica's, usually with a 35mm lens, are the preferred cameras of street shoots.

jack

n
Is that directed at me?? Yes I know what a rangefinder is. Yes I know what a Leica is. What's your point?

[Jaykue]

Can you place the camera in a shoe box or other such container with an opening for the lens at one end and a remote or wireless shutter release? Or set up a small table, near the action but not interfering with pedestrian traffic, with a chess game and place the camera in a "game case". You should get plenty of interest from spectators watching 2 people play chess.

i have to admit, and please don't be offended, but this is one of the strangest things i've yet to read for shooting the streets. I agree with Coopertown and it is a tad creepy. I'd feel like more of a PI investigating the activities of an unfaithful husband, than a street shooter :) and what would you do to capture sporadic adhoc moments? would i keep my camera in a shoe box, cut out a hole, and walk around with it? ;)

the purpose of using something less conspicious is not because of a fear of photographing people. it's more about avoiding their reaction towards my photographing them. especially in a smaller city i'm in (melbourne), people seem more mindful of what's happening around them - they may look straight into the camera, which ruins the wall flower effect, or be considerate and try not to walk into what they think is your shot...

one more thing with the telephoto alternative, i remember having borrwed a friend's 70-200mm L and that thing is heavy. Carrying that around would seem pretty impractical after an hour walking the streets.

You might try the Sigma Dp1 or when it comes out this spring the Dp2These are quirky little cameras with amazing IQ. You might take a look at the Sigma forum on DPreviews, search for street.

Jack

Jack, thanks for pointing out the Sigma DP1. It's definitely piqued my interest. I've yet to read up the dp forums in regards to it, but have discovered that Markus Hartel (http://www.markushartel.com/)has been using it as part of his street gear. I may shoot him an email in regards to his experience with it, and ask which photos have been taken by it. It'd be good to see images taken by it in the street context. Hopefully he will reply :)

[Geno DM]

OK, I gotta jump in here.

Be obvious and don't worry about it. Worst case, you'll find somebody that will make you eat your camera. :) That's pretty unlikely though, you might run into someone that will ask if you took a picture to delete it. If you've got some buddies with you (like The Hoff and Cosworth) tell them to get stuffed, otherwise appease them and delete it.

How's this for nonchalant?

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff44/genodm/Street/3D3X5241-Edit.jpg

I think you'll be OK with a 40d. I've done it a couple times myself.

[Geno DM]

n
Is that directed at me?? Yes I know what a rangefinder is. Yes I know what a Leica is. What's your point?

Wow, 8 posts and already banned.... Must have maced somebody... :)

[TheHoff]

Wow, 8 posts and already banned.... Must have maced somebody... :)

I don't think he really understood how this internet thing worked with all the people in the tubes typing at each other.


And what the hell is that in the photo??? some guy's head mounted cam? That looks like Granville Island, is that your shot?

[Ook]

And what the hell is that in the photo??? some guy's head mounted cam? That looks like Granville Island, is that your shot?

Looks like a strange variation on the Avatar Suit (http://www.marcowens.co.uk/avat.html) to me!

[TheHoff]

Looks like a strange variation on the Avatar Suit (http://www.marcowens.co.uk/avat.html) to me!

OK I LOL at that for at least 2 minutes...

[Geno DM]

And what the hell is that in the photo??? some guy's head mounted cam? That looks like Granville Island, is that your shot?

You know the rules, no posting if it's not yours. I took it on Granville Island the day I shot the rainy playground. BTW, I'll give a Creative Commons license to anyone that wants to use it. :) It apparently doubles as an umbrella.

Strange part is that there was another girl videotaping this one as she walked through the Market and around the island. They weren't very friendly when I tried asking what the f*** they were doing. I'm guessing they were students from Emily Carr. :)

Looks like a strange variation on the Avatar Suit (http://www.marcowens.co.uk/avat.html) to me!
OK I LOL at that for at least 2 minutes...

OK, that looked like a cross between this girl and somebody with a camera in a box as was suggested in one of these threads. Only thing is, this guy had the box over his HEAD! Whacko! :lol:

Hmmm, wonder if it was anyone we know.....

[dig-it-al]

My comment considers a side effect of Street Photography - Your subject becomes aware of the camera and reacts before you can capture the intended image. I think a helmet cam with a remote cable or even wireless remote would be really useful if you pose as a cyclist. Maybe we should have a new category, Stealth Photography.

[mrbojangles13]

i have the same problem.. i have learned to be quick with it... get the picture before they even know you are pointing it in their direction... sometimes if i cant be quick i take one picture of whatever it is behind or around them(so they are just outof the frame) then take my shot(with or without them in it). and act like that(the first one) was the picture i was planning on taking in the first place. and this way i have proof to show them.. i know sneaky and not such a nice thing to do. but i dont sell any of my stuff. and if you are on public property you are pretty much cool.

[condyk]

A 400D with 24mm 2.8 is a small and cheap street option. I tried a P&S for a while and it is easier because people just ignore you.

[airfrogusmc]

Thats why allot of the greats shoot/shot with M Leicas and a 35mm lens.

[Jaykue]

A 400D with 24mm 2.8 is a small and cheap street option. I tried a P&S for a while and it is easier because people just ignore you.

I definitely considered this option, but ended up getting a Sigma DP1 brand new for not much more than the 24mm 2.8 lens would have cost me. To be honest, I'm still contemplating on getting this lens cause i do like the POV - but i'm also tossing up between that and shooting in the style of HCB - full frame and 50mm - which means saving up for a 5D *sigh*

anyway, i do love the Sigma DP1. its a bit slow for low light conditions, and is a bit of a hassle to use - you'll need to do everything manually, but i think the image quality of the camera is well worth the effort to learn. here's a shot from the camera below for anybody interested.


http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/jaykue/SDIM0403-copy.jpg

[cryforashadow]

That's why I always shoot streets when I'm in a car. And that's why I have very few good street pictures.

[bluefox9er]

A 400D with 24mm 2.8 is a small and cheap street option. I tried a P&S for a while and it is easier because people just ignore you.


+1 to that....someone who dosn't look through a view finder is always going to draw attention compared to folks who use mobile phones and P&S type cameras.

[snakekid]

have you considered the lens attachment that makes it a right angle lens?
http://photojojo.com/store/awesomeness/candid-photography-spy-lens

[TooManyShots]

Have you read this article....?
http://news.deviantart.com/article/19649/#whatis

I mainly shoot birds but really want to master the discipline of taking pictures of people in their habitats (street photography).

[S7000]

I used to think the same way, however am slowly getting out of that frame of mind. The bottom line is, people don't notice you as much as you think they do. As was said, you might get a couple of people looking at you, but most people are too caught up in what they're doing to notice, or care. The more you get out and shoot infront of people, the better you will get at it. Just get some confidence, then let it grow and grow.