Shooting a Big 10 basketball game

[kansascityshuffle]

Ok, here's my dilemma. I was watching my school (Purdue) get handled by Duke last night in Mackey Arena, and I said to my girlfriend, "hey I wonder what it would take to get media credentials to shoot a game against one of the **** schools coming up on the schedule."

So, today I e-mailed a few Assistant Sports Information Directors here at Purdue. I got an e-mail back within an hour. This is what he said.

"While we don't normally credential freelance photographers, I will grant
you a credential to one men's basketball game that is very lightly
attended. In exchange, I ask that you provide me with a CD of the images
you shoot for possible use in future publications.

I can credential you for one of the following games:
Dec. 13 vs. Indiana State
Dec. 22 vs. IPFW
Dec. 28 vs. Valparaiso

Thank you."

Now, I was both excited and not at the same time. On one hand, this is too good to pass up. I may never have another chance to be down on the Mackey Arena floor taking pictures of the guys in a game. I love Purdue basketball, and it really is an awesome opportunity. It would also be great to add to my portfolio for my own future use.

On the other hand, I really was hoping they wouldn't ask for the rights to my shots. I just wanted to learn, and experience Mackey from the floor at the same time. I really don't want to be stepping on the toes of any professional photographers who would have been paid for the shots I'll give on a CD.

I haven't replied yet, but I want to soon. I don't really know what to say. I know I'm being used, but it's Big Ten basketball COURTSIDE. This is my first time shooting basketball at a level above high school, so I feel like my shots would be good, but not yet on the level of the professionals. For that reason, I almost feel like I would not be taking any business away from anybody.

Second, is there anyway to get around his statement? He said he wants a CD...Maybe I could get a CD together of small file size images with watermarks on them or completely unprocessed shots and then say, "If you would like the rights to the full size images, contact me and we will talk business." I would feel like a jerk, but I also feel like he just wants to use me anyways.

Do I just agree as is? What I won't do is tell him no thanks. An opportunity this cool might not come around again.

[kansascityshuffle]

I know it has only been an hour, but I was hoping this would stir up some quick discussion...I'm hoping to get back to him tonight or tomorrow at the latest.

[MT]

If you want to learn and experience Mackey from the floor embrace the opportunity.

If you feel you are being used (or are likely to feel that way), pass.

[FlyingPhotog]

I wouldn't approach this in an arrogant, half-a$$ed manner...

Either shoot and comply or pass but don't try and pass yourself off as more important or bigger than you really are. Honestly, the guys/gals who are shooting on deadline won't care if you're there or not unless you get in their way.

[kansascityshuffle]

I wouldn't approach this in an arrogant, half-a$$ed manner...

Either shoot and comply or pass but don't try and pass yourself off as more important or bigger than you really are. Honestly, the guys/gals who are shooting on deadline won't care if you're there or not unless you get in their way.


That is not what I'm trying to do at all. I'm not sure you understood my entire tone from the first post. I don't want money. I want to be down there for the experience. I also don't want to step on anybody's toes, and I've read a lot of peoples' staunch arguments on POTN about never giving shots away for free.

If the pro shooters down there don't care if I'm shooting for free, then I really don't either.

[MT]

Unless of course...

Second, is there anyway to get around his statement? He said he wants a CD...Maybe I could get a CD together of small file size images with watermarks on them or completely unprocessed shots and then say, "If you would like the rights to the full size images, contact me and we will talk business." I would feel like a jerk, but I also feel like he just wants to use me anyways.


Diplomatically as possible, I would agree with the flyingphotog, your message reads as though are maybe more than a little full of yourself.

Again, if you want to go for the experience - have at it.

[DDCSD]

I'd write up a contract and give him a price for a CD of the images. You'll be potentially giving them thousands of dollars worth of images for a courtside seat.

You are stepping on other people's toes by giving away a CD of the images for use in publications.

Also, do you have insurance. If something happens and a player or someone else gets hurt due to your actions, you're likely to get sued into oblivion. I'm surprised the school wouldn't require it.

[kansascityshuffle]

Maybe I should have worded things differently. I honestly couldn't care less about getting any sort of money for my shots here. I just was under the assumption that giving images away for nothing is a big no-no in the photography world.

This is the type of thread that led me to believe that. Look at post 23 and the conversation going on there.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=585978&highlight=chiefs&page=2

I have e-mailed him back and told him I'm perfectly fine with giving them a CD of my work that night. I can't wait to get down there and shoot with the gripped 40D and 100 2.0!

[kansascityshuffle]

I'd write up a contract and give him a price for a CD of the images. You'll be potentially giving them thousands of dollars worth of images for a courtside seat.

You are stepping on other people's toes by giving away a CD of the images for use in publications.

Also, do you have insurance. If something happens and a player or someone else gets hurt due to your actions, you're likely to get sued into oblivion. I'm surprised the school wouldn't require it.


I understand where you are coming from, and I respect that viewpoint. This is why I started the thread in the first place. On the other hand, I don't feel as though I will be stepping on toes.

I am going to shoot in RAW to keep for myself of course, then convert to a slightly smaller sized JPEG to put on the CD for him. The CD I give will not have full-size RAW files, simply to avoid cutting the professionals out of their regular sales of images.

[Tony-S]

Yeah, I'd say go for it. Sounds like a nice opportunity to get your legs in DIA hoops. But if you're from Kansas City, shouldn't you be trying to get to Allen Field House? :)

[kansascityshuffle]

Yeah, I'd say go for it. Sounds like a nice opportunity to get your legs in DIA hoops. But if you're from Kansas City, shouldn't you be trying to get to Allen Field House? :)


I'm going to take the opportunity,


And I would if I was. You obviously haven't seen the movie Lucky Number Slevin...It's where the name comes from. I just thought it sounded kind of neat.

[Tony-S]

I have that movie - I just haven't watched it yet. I'll think about this thread when I do, though.

Seriously, Allen Field House is amazing. I had a courtside opportunity back in 1980 and it was completely cool. I'll have to dig out those slides - I'm sure I have them somewhere...

[kansascityshuffle]

That's exactly why I'm going to do this...I can look back 30 years(sorry to make you feel old if I did!) from now and remember getting these shots on the court.

[MT]

Allen has a terrible infestation of jayhawks - who would want to be there?

[kansascityshuffle]

I almost forgot! I will be shooting a 40D with the lenses in my sig. I will also be able to try out my newest addition to the stable...the Tokina 11-16! It should make for a few really neat perspectives of the arena! The 100 2.0 will, of course, be my main lense.

[Tony-S]

Allen has a terrible infestation of jayhawks - who would want to be there?

Allen's a really fun, civilized place for 363 days of the year. It's just those two days when the mildcats and tiggers come to town that it turns into the Night Of The Living Dead. ;)

[lauderdalems]

First, I don't think you will be stepping on any professional toes doing this game. Assume the university already have a staff or contract photographer anyway.

BUT if you handle this the right way, it could open the door in the future for you.

IF you get some great pictures and IF you give them decent resolution pictures they could use, then they MIGHT use them in future media guides (along with your credit) and offer you a contract later.

I know since this is exactly how I became a small college sports photographer (on contract).

[liam5100]

If you want to learn and experience Mackey from the floor embrace the opportunity.

If you feel you are being used (or are likely to feel that way), pass.


There is truth in this for sure, but my 2c is that sometimes experience, networking and opportunity is more valuable than money. I would email him back and do it, and tell him you dont mind any shots being used as long as your notified (for tears and pr), and that your properly credited if they do.

[nphsbuckeye]

I've shot four games for OSU's student newspaper, three women's and one men's, and I doubt any photographer would care if a freelancers was there. Many publications have regular freelancers anyhow. Plus, most photographers are shooting for someone, I doubt you would take too much from anyone. Have fun sitting on the hard court for two hours!

[canonnoob]

being that this is almost the exact way I got my job.. I will say this.. Take the oppertunity.. It will benefit you in the long run. I work for Missouri State Unversity's Photo Services and sometimes we will hand out passes to the football games to people who want to get better.. normally its nothing more than maybe one or two but Thats how I got my start. I asked to shoot a football game, the director got me onto the field, asked me if I would like to shoot for him after seeing my work... Really this could be a great thing for you! Take it and try your hardest or pass...

[kansascityshuffle]

I've e-mailed back and said yes, of course. I can pick up my credentials sometime next week for the game at 2pm on Saturday. I just got my Tokina 11-16 in today, and it's tack sharp, so I'll use it for a few specialty shots of the arena and maybe during starting lineups or something.

The only questions I have now are the ones pertaining to where I'm allowed to be, how to get down to the court, and a few other small informational tidbits that I'm sure I can pick up on from the other photogs down on the floor.

I plan to shoot around 1/800th, with my 3 primes from my sig close to wide open. Hopefully the light is kosher enough to be able to do that at ISO 1600 or less, but I imagine it will be. Anything other than that will be experimental to try and get something different and interesting.

Should be a fun time anyways, and I feel like I'm prepared for it.

Anybody shot in Mackey or have any tips or see things I missed?

[canonnoob]

well honestly go and rent a 70-200 you wont want to keep switching.. I shoot with my 70-200 2.8 from sigma all game... i shoot around f/3.2, ISO 640 SS= 500 it works pretty well for me.. Your going to want something longer than what you have...

[kansascityshuffle]

I'm not going to spend the money. I'll mainly just worry about the close end for now. If I ever start getting paid to get every perfect shot, then I'll buy a 70-200 2.8.

[psuphoto09]

He is basically offering you what the terms are for anyone who works for them minus the pay. I got to Penn State and I know if you work for the athletic office you do not own the rights to the images.

As for what goes on the CD, just make them medium size jpg files.

Good luck

[nphsbuckeye]

With the 70-200 you'll miss shots in the paint. I'd rather have shoots in the paint on my side of the court than the other side as with a 70-200.

[Tony-S]

One of my favs courtside is the 50-150 f/2.8. The 200L is handy as well, for opposite end shots.

[computerguru3190]

The 100 will be to long for in the paint, its hard enough to shoot at 70. Also you most likely will not be allowed any where except the baseline to shoot during the game. Unless you get an all access pass (in place of a normal media credential) then don't plan on getting into many places.

Your 11-16 will make for a great WA but I wouldnt do to many of those unless they are dunking, that is what makes those types of images. Shoot down court with the 100 some of the time, then switch to the 28 or 50 considering how far you are on the baseline.

[kansascityshuffle]

What I'm hoping is this...

11-16...Special effect shots of the whole arena. Just something you don't normally see

28 and 50...Shots in the paint.

100...Getting nice full-viewfinder images of the guards working up the court. Also some shots of the far end

That's plenty for me to work on. I also got a credential to shoot the womens' game Saturday at 7pm. So I'll be shooting both games on Saturday. The men play at 2pm.

[computerguru3190]

You don't normally see wide shots of the arenas because the SI deparments dont give access to upper levels unless you are one of theirs.

[kansascityshuffle]

You don't normally see wide shots of the arenas because the SI deparments dont give access to upper levels unless you are one of theirs.

At Mackey, you can just walk up to the top. I don't see any complications. Not to mention, I have season tickets anyways.

[rdompor]

I can tell you that the 100 is not long enough to shoot for the opposite side of the court without heavy cropping involved. You will find it useful for shots of players just outside the arc and across the court (you will be shooting through players when shooting across the court and 100 may still be short). The 50 will be useful when the action is on your side and you want a wider shot, but I think you will find the 28 is too wide to really give a "normal perspective". It would probably serve you best when used under the basket where you will be closest to the action. The Tokina will be waaay wide - I've never had a lens that wide on the floor so I wouldn't really know what to do with it.

Since you only have one body, I suggest picking one lens for a certain period of time. Plan the image you want to capture, wait for the scenario to occur and shoot it. If you try to swap lenses depending on the action on the floor then you'll never get the shot you want.

Without a longer lens, I wouldn't plan on shooting down the court toward your basket. I usually set up with a 200 2.8, 100 2, and 50 1.4 and the 200 is barely cutting it down the court. So unless you plan on concentrating on defense I suggest sitting by your basket - you probably won't be able to move to the other end of the court until halftime. With your lenses being relatively wide, I also suggest spending most of your time directly under the basket and occasionally work your way toward the sideline (you may have to jockey for position with other photographers).

Last tip (for now): Wear comfortable clothes and maybe knee pads if you have them. You have to sit on the floor the entire time, and as you may have guessed, it can get tiring and uncomfortable.

Have fun! Be sure to post the images after the game.

PS. Just read that little bit about you shooting at 1/800th wide open - I shoot Rutgers basketball and in our arena, the RAC, I'm barely getting 1/320 at 2.8 ISO1600. Not sure what it's like at your school. Just saying.

[nphsbuckeye]

Yeah, unfortunately you'll have to choose between a lens that shoots wide or tele. Can't wait for that 24-200 2.8

[nphsbuckeye]

PS. Just read that little bit about you shooting at 1/800th wide open - I shoot Rutgers basketball and in our arena, the RAC, I'm barely getting 1/320 at 2.8 ISO1600. Not sure what it's like at your school. Just saying.
Really? I shoot 500 F5.8 1600 at the Schottenstein Center and usually pretty decent exposure. Although, with my new 24-60, I'll shoot a little differently.

[kansascityshuffle]

It went very well I think. Check out the results here.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6873302#post6873302

[TjStrider]

If you understand based on his email what is implied with his request, as your post and question imply. It would be a breech of contract for you to give, unprocessed low grade, watermarked images.

You could be sued for specific performance. (meaning they make you comply) and give over the images.

Just so you know.