one of my HDR's was stolen!!

[zacker]

GRRRRRRRR!!!
I know this has been done to death but I need to throw this at ya'll and see if it bounces... So, my boss is on va ca in florida for 2 weeks, now, this man gets an ungodly amount of junk mail like magazines, coupon books and such so, today im walking past the huge stack of back up junk on his desk and i decide to look through it because sometimes theres some cool catalogs there.. so im flipping through the stack and i see a local mag/ paper thing called "Local eyez on Milford".. and the pic on the cover looks pretty familiar. it should because its mine.. lol so now. this mag is part of "The Bargain News" a pretty big paper here in CT.. (i dont know if its NY or MA or not) but its a giant want ads paper... and kinda pricey if you want to put a photo ad in it.. so, being that they are a business who doesnt seem to be in need of free photographs, how do i proceed ... im thinking to get the ball rolling, ill send em a bill for a crazy amount? im thinking they will (hopefully) come back with a lesser amount that will still be more than enough. any ideas?



Look here...lol

My shot:



http://www.brokenfencephotography.com/photos/149054097_f8QBW-L.jpg



Mag Cover:



http://zacker.smugmug.com/photos/430693739_sE5Qu-L.jpg

[stathunter]

Kind of funny.....you found it snooping though your bosses stuff. Anyway. I would suggest that you figure out what they charge for a full page advertisement-- then triple the price for the cover. You might want to contact an attorney if it is over 5K -- if not get your ducks in a row and call the editor--- not mad but with fact. (dont tell him you found it snooping through your bosses desk though :) )

[zacker]

good idea.... should i just include a bill?

[InsaneSkippy]

good idea.... should i just include a bill?I would tell them up front that you expect compensation.

[82NoMe]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/panclan/signs/worthless.gif

[zacker]

lol.... look at my first post now..

[kirkt]

Wow - that is crazy. You might think that your shot has been done by other people from that scenic viewpoint and perspective, but scale and overlay the images and use the "Difference" blending mode and BAM! they are spot on - especially the clouds. What coincidence - maybe call the publisher and speak to them civilly as a start?

[tmcman]

Please keep us posted on how it turns out...

[octospit]

wow! go for it bro! they gotta "show you the money!" :lol:
that IS your photo!

[zacker]

Wow - that is crazy. You might think that your shot has been done by other people from that scenic viewpoint and perspective, but scale and overlay the images and use the "Difference" blending mode and BAM! they are spot on - especially the clouds. What coincidence - maybe call the publisher and speak to them civilly as a start?


wow i never thought to try that.. lol its even on the website too.. in TWO spots. Ohhhh they gonna pay!! lol (i hope) i downloaded fotoquotepro and for a cover, circulation of 10k-25k they say its 988.00 to 1307.00 USD... ill send a bill for the 988.00 with a letter explaining the situation and see where it goes.. it had to be a screen grab as its right click protected and on my flicker site its also down load protected.. ill keep you guys up to date!

[Bill Pham]

good luck buddy. hope thing works out for you. at least you made the front cover :lol::lol:.

Bill

[stathunter]

Not only is your photo on the cover of their mag but now your photo is their websites official logo and is on the front page............... this is going to get good!

FYI -- they have a WARNING on their website that everything is copyrighted etc----- :) --

I would call a local attorney--- scare the crap out of the little rinky paper-- get them to run a full page advertisement (every month -- promoting your photography business-- and one on the back cover or ask them for $5 for the photo --- that is $5 for every one of their promoted 23K papers in circulation.

[realitysays]

I would call an attorney as they will deny "stealing" your image. As long as your stern and show that you KNOW its your photo, you should get some compensation out of this.

Im' hoping for you, a big payout :lol:

[toyoufromzero]

definitely keep this updated.

get you some

[canonloader]

Lawyer up first.

[-Douglas-]

they should read their own privacy statement.

start documenting everything and contact that lawyer!

[canonloader]

Wait a minute. It's not your picture. The clouds are different. Maybe not.

[MKULTRA]

Subscribed. :D I'd like to see how this turns out

[-Douglas-]

looks the same to me Mitch, even the cars are in the same spots!

[CROW21]

looks the same to me Mitch, even the cars are in the same spots!

I noticed the cars also , it's your photo . I hope everything turns out on your favor.

[Andrushka]

dang - the folks at that fish wrap certainly have some brass ones - hope you score big $$ (or at least some!)

Is this your first cover shot??

[kirkt]

Zacker - take a look at your original(s) - the EXIF data may (should) have the Serial Number of your camera embedded in it. For the ultimate "FU", take a picture of their coupon clipper with the same camera and send them a screen shot with your original image and the photo of their cover side-by-side with the EXIF data Serial Number displayed for each image. Is there anything in your original hi-res image that would allow you to verify the date/time that you took the original (as embedded in the EXIF) - you know, like: is that a clock on the steeple of the church displaying the time - something in the scene that matches your EXIF time/date? I know it is ridiculous, but if you can "prove" that your originals are yours, you are halfway there. In other words, if I were them, I would make you prove YOU took the original shot. I know it sounds crazy, but I am a cynic, so I will play Dr. Evil in this reenactment.

Obviously, if they took a screen shot of your image from somewhere it will have none of your EXIF, but it does not take much of an effort to demonstrate that it compares exactly with yours - i.e., image elements that are dynamic (cars, clouds, things that move) are exactly the same. Even if the same car parks in the exact same place each day, I am guessing the cloud formations over the scene change and are never identical.

Good luck. I would love to see the image they claim is theirs - i.e., their "original" file. It will have no EXIF and will probably be 72 dpi - i.e., not taken by a camera. If they cannot demonstrate the "provenance" of the image, then I would guess they would have a problem. Where else might you have posted the image (i.e., where else might they have copied it from)? I recall seeing it in the Forum, but that image may have been a hotlink from Flickr. I am no lawyer though, so what the hell do I know.

I suppose watermarks are ugly and distracting, but I bet you start using them.... Hey, look at it this way - you are published! Congratulations!

Good luck, I am staying tuned for this mini-series!

Kirk

EDIT - if you take that screenshot image I referred to above, DO NOT POST IT ANYWHERE! Keep all that data to yourself. :)

[JoYork]

*grabs popcorn*

[JoYork]

By the way, these are the people responsible for the web design of the newspaper's website:

http://www.9summer.com/

[[CaliGirl]]

Go get your paycheck zacker!!! Keep us in the know....this should be good!

**Subscribed**

[JoYork]

Might also be an idea to make some screen grabs of their website - they've used your photograph twice on there.

[kirkt]

Dude - funny thing. I just copied the image on their website from the header. Check out the filename of the image, straight from their website - how does that compare to the name you gave it Zacker? :)

No other EXIF or other metadata (the creation date, etc. is from when I copied the image from their site to my desktop).

Kirk

[drummerhc]

Yeah the clouds look different. :O

[kirkt]

I did a Google image search with the term "milford, ct image" - your image was the 7th hit, listed at this address:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/newengland/discuss/72157602144703759/

I was able to drag a copy of the image straight onto my desktop. However, the image name was: "482585431_8b8f94a78d.jpg".

[canonloader]

These guys need to pay. Nobody that stupid should get away with it. :)

[kirkt]

And here is the HTML in the header frame, just for fun:


<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tr>
<td colspan="2" align="center" style="background-image: url(milford_BD_hdr_bg.jpg); background-repeat: repeat-x;">
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0">
<tr>
<td><a href="mbd_frame.cfm" target="_top" title="Bargain News Local-Eyez on Milford"><img src="milford_BD_hdr_logo.gif" alt="" width="431" height="156" border="0"></a></td>
<td width="25"><img src="pixel.gif" alt="" width="25" height="1" border="0"></td>
<td><img src="milford_BD_hdr_pic.jpg" alt="Bargain News Local-Eyez on Milford" width="427" height="156" border="0"></td>
</tr>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>


I love a good mystery!!!

Kirk

[InsaneSkippy]

Subscribed :)

[civicseth]

Go get 'em!

[TheReal7]

Good luck. Squeeze em for every penny :D hahaha

[andrew748]

with all due respect to zacker :)

we have been here before.
was the photo uploaded to an image house?

[tkoutdoor]

I would call an attorney as they will deny "stealing" your image. As long as your stern and show that you KNOW its your photo, you should get some compensation out of this.

Im' hoping for you, a big payout :lol:It's easy to KNOW it's his photo. The matching cars are a dead giveaway. There's also a person in a red shirt walking in front of one of the cars and several of the areas of the water fall that stand out are identical. The water fall is totally random from second to second so between the cars and the details in the falls it's easy to prove.

[JJD.Photography]

I remember when you posted this photo. In to see the big pay out :cool:

[CameraBuff]

Don't settle for anything less than a Canon 5D Mark ll and a 24-105 F4L with IS.

[teresazada]

Yikes, that stinks! Keep us posted for sure. They better pay up!

[maxblack]

Could this help?
TinEye is an image search engine built by Idée currently in beta. Give it an image and it will tell you where the image appears on the web.
http://tineye.com

The water looks the same to me.

[rms2005]

that is messed up, I hope the fact there to cheap to get there on photos comes back to bite em in the but. Good luck

[jdizzle]

Wow! Kick 'em where the sun don't shine! :) Of course I wouldn't condone that. :) Get a lawyer and do what you got to do. :)

[JackFlash19]

-subscribed- Man, like others have said, get them for every penny! And THEN SOME!


btw max that tineye site is BADASS!! Hopefully it will be easier for us to track our images and who steals them.....amazing software

[ArcticShooter]

Oops. To interesting tread to not subscribe to it. Get them for what it's worth

[Red Cloud]

Subscribed

I had a look at both images, yours and the cover and they are exactly the same (except website + cover looks to be sharpened a little extra).

Layered over each other, the clouds/water/cars are identical.

[Shultz]

shuffles in seat & takes a slurp of coke............

Shelton.

[Napalm_fire]

This will get good, the photo is the exact same. Look at the large cloud right above and to the right of the steeple of the church. If that's not definitive, idk what is.

Good luck!

[randy.wick]

My thought was to check it using one of the images as a difference layer. Looks pretty incriminating.

Notice:
-clouds match exactly
-building matches exactly
-trees match exactly
-bird feeder (whatever that thing is) matches exactly
-cars appear to match exactly
-foam matches exactly

There is absolutely no possibility this is a different photo.

[_Sim]

Good thinking, Randy. I don't think there's any way they can argue it wasn't ripped off.

[poloman]

Moving straw up and down in cup :)

[oldvultureface]

Subscribed.

[randy.wick]

Moving straw up and down in cup :)
Maybe I've lived too sheltered of a life... I don't get it :confused: <-- apparently this is the confused smiley. Trust me, I look more confused than it right now!

[Dusty]

Maybe I've lived too sheltered of a life... I don't get it :confused: <-- apparently this is the confused smiley. Trust me, I look more confused than it right now!
It's like being at the movies, watching a thriller or something and sipping on a drink while you wait for the action to unfold. ;)

[-Douglas-]

Where are you Zacker? ...any minute now, Zacker appears with details....some people spill drinks, popcorn flies in air. :p

[Dusty]

Where are you Zacker? ...any minute now, Zacker appears with details....some people spill drinks, popcorn flies in air. :p
Let's not confuse Randy more than need be. :lol:

[-Douglas-]

Let's not confuse Randy more than need be.
;):lol:

[imahawki]

I know technically there isn't a difference from a copyright perspecgtive but I find this much more compelling than that typical (I saw my image on another forum posted by someone claiming they took it).

[watchtherocks]

Go git 'em!!
Subscribed, on edge of seat.

[-Douglas-]

Could this help?
TinEye is an image search engine built by Idée currently in beta. Give it an image and it will tell you where the image appears on the web.
http://tineye.com

Downloaded the plug-in for FF. This looks like it could be quite a valuable tool,
right click image, click search with Tineye, quick and simple. Their data base is not that big yet, but with more crawling around the web, picture thieves look out!

[randy.wick]

Let's not confuse Randy more than need be. :lol:
Not fair!! Okay, fair, but not fun. It's too easy to confuse me! :D

[poloman]

Just relax Randy....come have a seat with us and watch the show! :)

[randy.wick]

(takes seat)
(takes confusion pills)
(feels better)

[Bill Pham]

dang it zacker. i'm almost out of chips over here waiting.

Bill

[waynedsargent]

Just goes to show once you put a pic on the internet people can.....and will take it. Low res. and watermarking is the only way to go!

[Andrushka]

Low res. and watermarking is the only way to go!

no then they will just steal crappy watermarked versions of your photos!! :lol:

[Mike-DT6]

I don't usually put more than a 500 pixel (on longest side) image online, and watermarked too. People will steal anything that isn't tied down though! :lol:

Mike

[Photon Phil]

Please keep this one a HOT thread.

We want updates hourly Monday!! :)

[Photon Phil]

Wait , I've got it! Put your nicest stuff out on flickr and let the $$$ roll in with your lawyer.

[DDCSD]

Wait , I've got it! Put your nicest stuff out on flickr and let the $$$ roll in with your lawyer.

More like roll to your lawyer.

OP Register your image. Send them a an invoice for about double what Photoquote says. Only worry about a lawyer if they refuse to pay.

[zacker]

By the way, these are the people responsible for the web design of the newspaper's website:

http://www.9summer.com/

awesome.. thanks!

[zacker]

Could this help?
TinEye is an image search engine built by Idée currently in beta. Give it an image and it will tell you where the image appears on the web.
http://tineye.com

The water looks the same to me.


Thanks.. I tried it but its not there..

[zacker]

My thought was to check it using one of the images as a difference layer. Looks pretty incriminating.

Notice:
-clouds match exactly
-building matches exactly
-trees match exactly
-bird feeder (whatever that thing is) matches exactly
-cars appear to match exactly
-foam matches exactly

There is absolutely no possibility this is a different photo.

that is frickin sweet...thanks Randy!

[zacker]

Mailing a letter, invoice, copy of mag cover and print out of the pic today... Im betting they wont respond.. prolly never paid over $50.00 in their lives for a photo. Funny, they charge $600.00 for a full page add though...Hmmm.. what i cant understand is why a Legit company, who here in CT is a pretty popular paper, would go and take a photo and actually use it as their own?

[JoYork]

It could have been their web designers. Either way don't let them get out of their responsibilities.

[TheReal7]

Mailing a letter, invoice, copy of mag cover and print out of the pic today... Im betting they wont respond.. prolly never paid over $50.00 in their lives for a photo. Funny, they charge $600.00 for a full page add though...Hmmm.. what i cant understand is why a Legit company, who here in CT is a pretty popular paper, would go and take a photo and actually use it as their own?

My guess is the big wig's at the plant have no clue. The person doing the layout was probably asked to find a particular photo and just happened to find yours. Definitely be an eye opening experience for them when they get your letter.

[kirkt]

You should take out a full page add in their circular advertising full color, poster-sized prints of the cover image "signed by the original artist". Ahhh, that is the kind of irony reserved only for lottery winners. Good luck, ought to be interesting.

Did you ever name your tonemapped HDR with the same name as their header image? That may give you a clue as to what version of your art they accessed.

[SwiftFootTim]

Haha, dang this is too good. I'm thinking that you'll profit from this. A lawyer should be able to get you big money on it too. This mag needs to give credit where credit is due.

[breal101]

I like the idea of selling signed prints, it's a beautiful image. They should give you a full page ad for free though, and certainly would be better for them than a cash payment or a lawsuit. Many times this kind of magazine has offered me ad space in trade for photography services. It could be a fair way of settling this. Making lemonade from lemons, it could be an opportunity for the OP to make more than he might collect in an adversarial role and have less stress.

[SwiftFootTim]

While an ad may be nice, I believe that with a large distribution of 25,000 * value of said photo > Any amount of business from a free advertisement. If he follows the RIAA's guidelines then each act of infringement is able to be used as value in the equation. So if the distro is 25,000 and the value turns out to be > $1.00 there is significant money from just suing them for infringement.

Heck, a song is worth $25,000 or something ridiculous for the RIAA, I say a picture is too.

[Perry Ge]

More like roll to your lawyer.

OP Register your image. Send them a an invoice for about double what Photoquote says. Only worry about a lawyer if they refuse to pay.
This is THE MOST IMPORTANT advice given in this thread so far. Register your image. If this goes to the lawyers, you can't get anywhere near as much compensation (even if they are found guilty of copyright infringement) for unregistered work.

Go register that image right now!

[kokicubano]

It's true without your pic being registered or copyrighted you might get screwed. IF it were copyrighted you could file a copyright infringement case in federal court against them. One of the recent Photoshop User mags just had a whole article on this. I hope you do get payed.

[poloman]

If Zacher registers it immediately, I think he is still in good shape.

[DDCSD]

Copyright is automatic unless signed away. Registering your copyright ensures that you may receive damages if your copyright is infringed upon.

Excellent read on copyrights and registering your images.
http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/copyright/

Your rights to sue for damages are likely gone, even if registered. It has been more than 14 months since you "published" your image on Flickr. The law generally allows for a 3 month grace period after publication to register the image. You can still sue for "breach of contract".

Again, sending them a high-markup bill for this is the way to go. If they refuse to pay, small claims court may be the way to go.

ASMP's page on what to do if your copyright has been infringed.
http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/copyright/protect.php

[René Damkot]

Agree. This is one case were I'd register an image were I in the USA ;)

Edit: I thought that the 3 month grace period was 3 months after infringement?

Edit2: Ah, seems not...
You can register at any time, but to preserve the protection of collecting attorney’s fees and statutory damages for infringements, you have to register either before the infringement occurs or within three months of publication. If you do this, you are retroactively covered back to the actual day of publication. If you don’t make the 3-month window, you are only covered after your actual registration date. If you are infringed after this 3-month window yet before you have submitted a registration deposit, you can still register your copyrights and file suit, but you will not be eligible to ask for statutory damages and counsel fees. If you then register and another infringement occurs after the registration, you will be entitled to ask for statutory damages and counsel fees in connection with this later infringement, as long as the copyright office has received your properly completed application.

[Mike-DT6]

Surely if it was from the date of publishing there would be a free-for-all on every image ever published, once they were more than three months old.

Mike

[HSK]

hmm nawty nawty! interested to see/hear what they come up with in response.

[Chris Rodgers]

Good luck with it mate, you have all the proof you need :)

[randy.wick]

Your rights to sue for damages are likely gone, even if registered. It has been more than 14 months since you "published" your image on Flickr. The law generally allows for a 3 month grace period after publication to register the image. You can still sue for "breach of contract".
I think you may be misunderstanding here. Intellectual property rights are created when the photo is created, and outlive the author by 70 years. You can't "copyright" an image because copyright protection is integral to it from its inception. Registration does not create any additional privileges other than easing infringement suits.

Edit: regardless of whether you can collect damages, you can sue for specific performance to halt publication using the logo and change the website. It would be much easier for the infringer to just settle with you for a license.

Edit 2: sorry, should have included this too. Your copyright is infringed upon if anybody else in the world tries to exercise any of your rights protected by 17 U.S.C. § 106 (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106). It's the remedy for infringement that may be limited by lack of registration, but you'll want your attorney to get into that, if you take it that far. Also, copyright is all federal (i.e., no state has jurisdiction over copyright) so you shouldn't have to worry about any local provisions or statutes causing you problems.

[DDCSD]

Surely if it was from the date of publishing there would be a free-for-all on every image ever published, once they were more than three months old.

Mike

Well, that is what the law states. You can sue, but you can't get extra damages or your legal fees paid. You can get money for the use of the image, but not anything extra, making a lawsuit involving a paid lawyer counter-productive in most cases not involving massively huge corporations or infringments. It will cost the OP more in attorney fees to sue this company using a paid attorney than it is worth.

That is why I recommended small claims court if they refuse to pay.


I think you may be misunderstanding here. Intellectual property rights are created when the photo is created, and outlive the author by 70 years. You can't "copyright" an image because copyright protection is integral to it from its inception. Registration does not create any additional privileges other than easing infringement suits.

Edit: regardless of whether you can collect damages, you can sue for specific performance to halt publication using the logo and change the website. It would be much easier for the infringer to just settle with you for a license.

Edit 2: sorry, should have included this too. Your copyright is infringed upon if anybody else in the world tries to exercise any of your rights protected by 17 U.S.C. § 106 (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106). It's the remedy for infringement that may be limited by lack of registration, but you'll want your attorney to get into that, if you take it that far. Also, copyright is all federal (i.e., no state has jurisdiction over copyright) so you shouldn't have to worry about any local provisions or statutes causing you problems.

Yes, your copyright lasts for 70 years after the death of the holder, however, lack of registration within the 3 month grace period given from the date of publishing limits the amount of money that you can seek in a lawsuit. The OP will likely not even be able to recover his legal fees.

Do you really think it will be worth paying an attorney thousands of dollars for a fairly low-level infringement?

Now if he registers the image and sends them a C&D letter, and they print up another issue using the image, then it is all fair game and hiring a lawyer would be worth it, since the new infringement would take place after notification and registration and he could then recover legal fees and damages.

i know everyone wants to nail infringers to the wall, but sometimes sending out a bill and a cease & desist is the best course of action.

This just shows you, either don't publish your images to the internet, watermark them heavily, or be sure to register them.


I didn't mean to make my post sound like there was no point in registering the image, just that a lawsuit won't likely be fruitful.

[randy.wick]

Well, that is what the law states. You can sue, but you can't get extra damages or your legal fees paid. You can get money for the use of the image, but not anything extra, making a lawsuit involving a paid lawyer counter-productive in most cases not involving massively huge corporations or infringments. It will cost the OP more in attorney fees to sue this company using a paid attorney than it is worth.

That is why I recommended small claims court if they refuse to pay.




Yes, your copyright lasts for 70 years after the death of the holder, however, lack of registration within the 3 month grace period given from the date of publishing limits the amount of money that you can seek in a lawsuit. The OP will likely not even be able to recover his legal fees.

Do you really think it will be worth paying an attorney thousands of dollars for a fairly low-level infringement?

Now if he registers the image and sends them a C&D letter, and they print up another issue using the image, then it is all fair game and hiring a lawyer would be worth it, since the new infringement would take place after notification and registration and he could then recover legal fees and damages.

i know everyone wants to nail infringers to the wall, but sometimes sending out a bill and a cease & desist is the best course of action.

This just shows you, either don't publish your images to the internet, watermark them heavily, or be sure to register them.


I didn't mean to make my post sound like there was no point in registering the image, just that a lawsuit won't likely be fruitful.

I was about to quote a few of your lines and follow with "agreed," but when I got to the end and there weren't any lines I wasn't including I thought it would be a bit... overkill. Agreed on all.

[DDCSD]

I was about to quote a few of your lines and follow with "agreed," but when I got to the end and there weren't any lines I wasn't including I thought it would be a bit... overkill. Agreed on all.

i thought it seemed like we were on the same page, just using different words. :)

[clarkent1]

This has been a good show, silently staying out of the way watching.


P.s Totally your photo!!! and a good photo nonetheless

[Mark A]

Good luck with the outcome

Mark

[Inspeqtor]

Zacker - take a look at your original(s) - the EXIF data may (should) have the Serial Number of your camera embedded in it.

Kirk


I just saw this thread for the first time. I was intrigued by the statement above. I looked at some of my photos taken with my Canon XSi, but I did not find any Serial Numbers anywhere. That would be totally cool if the S/N were embedded in the EXIF data. I am assuming there are camera's out there that really do this?

Zacker, go get 'em!

[randy.wick]

I just saw this thread for the first time. I was intrigued by the statement above. I looked at some of my photos taken with my Canon XSi, but I did not find any Serial Numbers anywhere. That would be totally cool if the S/N were embedded in the EXIF data. I am assuming there are camera's out there that really do this?

Zacker, go get 'em!
Mine does, and it's older than yours. You can see it in Bridge.
Edit: it's an XT, so I'd assume yours follows suit...

[stathunter]

*sits waiting for an update*

[Inspeqtor]

Mine does, and it's older than yours. You can see it in Bridge.
Edit: it's an XT, so I'd assume yours follows suit...

Randy,

I know Bridge is in Photoshop. I do not own Photoshop, but I do have Photoshop Elements.

EDIT: I have Photoshop Elements 6

Thank you for replying!

[zacker]

lol... so today i get an email from the editor.. it seems he tried to call me at 4:30 last night..funny, i have no message or even a missed call on my cell phone. Hmmm he said he found it on flickr (i knew it!!!!) its not my photo, it belongs to "definetlyoverdone" (lol thats my flickr name) and it wasnt listed as copyrighted and he couldnt find an owners name, or email.. lol heres the email:

Dear Craig:
Got your letter and invoice concerning the photo that we used on Locaeyez
Milford advertising booklet.

We DID NOT get this photo from your web site. We found it on Google.

If you search "Milford Ct Waterfalls" on google some links come up. At the
top of the Google page just above the word Google click on the second link
that says "Images".

The photo we used was the third one that appears. It is posted on flickr.com

If you click on the photo image to look at the full size once you are on
Flickr.com a bunch of photos show up.

YOUR PHOTO appears as the 28 photo down in this list.

These are photos posted by definiteltoverdone and hes has three photos on
the site.

There is no link, copywrite disclaimer or any reference to
brokenfencephotography.com or your name .

You have submitted an invoice for $984.00.

I am not sure where you came up with this amount.

I left you a phone message on Dec 9, 2008 at about 4:30 PM

We have always respected all copywrite laws and would never knowingly use
someones photo without their permission.

We know better!


Sincerely,
xxxx xxxxx

[zacker]

this is what i fired back.. at this point... im not even caring about the $$$, its the whole principal of it.. just because its on flickr, its ok to take? and flickr too is pretty effed up.. you can right click protect your images there, but only on your page.. the version he took was from it posted into a thread..

Thanks for replying John.

The Photo you "Found on Google" does in fact belong to me.

If you go to the photo where you say you found it, click on the actual
photo, it takes you to my Flickr Page, now click on my screen name
"Definetlyoverdone" and click "Profile" you can plainly see its me as my
website is labeled there. Yes, that photo you used is copyrighted, if you
look at that pic on my Flicker page, go to the right and scroll down, you'll
see it says "Copyright All Rights Reserved"... I don't know why you were
able to down load it as it is set to be non downloadable.. but that wouldn't
matter anyhow.

Well I am sure you do understand the copyright laws, and you know that Just
because a photo is on line, it does not mean it is not copyrighted, even if
it doesn't have a copyright symbol on it. Also, the photo, whether it is
listed as copyrighted or not, or if it is download protected or not, is the
intellectual property of the owner, That's me, the Photographer, from the
second I took the Photo.

Just not sure why you didn't actually do more to try and find out who the
owner was, you could have sent me an email right through Flickr to ask for
permission to use it.


for pricing, I use a piece of software to set pricing.. It's called Foto
Quote Pro.. It is used by a lot of Pro Photographers to set pricing and for a
front page photo for use on a Brochure with a 10-25K Circulation, its
anywhere between $984.00 to $1400.00 I didn't even figure in the Web site
use. (two places on your site no less)

Now, I have checked... You charge $600.00 for a full page add in that
magazine, I'm thinking my price for the use of my photo isn't too far off
base here, Coupled with the website usage.

Thanks,
Craig

[TheReal7]

Cool. Hold you guns high Zack. :D

[ibdb]

Cool, explicit instructions on what they did to violate your copyright and how they did it! :lol::lol::lol:

Take those screen shots of their homepage with your image in use twice and keep those handy for when they claim ignorance again the next time.

[digirebelva]

Okay who has the popcorn...this is getting interesting...;)

[freakeystyley34]

That's a good reply, i can't believe the guy thought it was legal to steal an image from flickr because he couldn't see a copyright sign anywhere! He clearly doesn't understand copyright law at all, as you said copyright is created automatically from the moment you take the photo.

good luck!

edit: It also really riles me that they think they can charge $600 for a full page ad in the magazine but don't have to pay for a front page image!

[canonnoob]

wow... This is intersting (Popping popcorn litterally as i type)

[justincase724]

Sounds like he's just trying to play you as a fool. Most people wouldn't even be aware that their photo had been used, let alone persue compensation like you did. Your response was excellent, and I really can't wait to see what he comes up with in return.

[DDCSD]

What a goober. I assume you sent a Cease and Desist letter along with the invoice?

[canonnoob]

^^lol goober.... My friend from highschool said that all the time... :)

[ibdb]

Just noticed how they were sure to add the vignette over the watermark in the lower right of the image. :lol:

[Gimpy00Wang]

I've got popcorn in the microwave...subscribed.

- Chris

[digirebelva]

Sounds like he's just trying to play you as a fool. Most people wouldn't even be aware that their photo had been used, let alone persue compensation like you did.

I wonder, how many are of the opinion that if they can snatch it, the probability thet the owner will discover it are slim..thus they become emboldened...?

[digirebelva]

I've got popcorn in the microwave...subscribed.

- Chris

Butter flavored i hope...got a big bowl..;)

[tomd]

I agree that it sounds like he is treating you like a NOOB-fool.

My next response:
"look, we can deal with this now - the $924 is reasonable, or the next step for me is my copyright attorney who charges $275 an hour and she will seek far more in damages than what we have already discussed, which route shall we take?"

[aseainthesky]

Subscribed. This is very interesting and I'd like to see the outcome of this. I'm sure everyone else already said this but stand your ground and don't back down.

[zacker]

Ok so dont kill me... lol
This guy called me and this is where we settled.. $500.00 and Photo credit on the mag and site and free advertising on the site. one of those side bar links like the google ad things.. Im pretty stoked as i thought this would have dragged on and on and for a pic i took while on my lunch hour one day, i think i did pretty good!

[Permagrin]

Ok so dont kill me... lol
This guy called me and this is where we settled.. $500.00 and Photo credit on the mag and site and free advertising on the site. one of those side bar links like the google ad things.. Im pretty stoked as i thought this would have dragged on and on and for a pic i took while on my lunch hour one day, i think i did pretty good!

I think that was a good ending. No litigation, you sold a photo and have advertising. That's a nice job for a bad situation.

[TheReal7]

Ok so dont kill me... lol
This guy called me and this is where we settled.. $500.00 and Photo credit on the mag and site and free advertising on the site. one of those side bar links like the google ad things.. Im pretty stoked as i thought this would have dragged on and on and for a pic i took while on my lunch hour one day, i think i did pretty good!

Bang bang. *takes your $500*

Damn you did good my friend. Sad that this how you have to go about getting paid for your work. Glad you settled and got a new lens out of the deal ;)

[Bill Pham]

congrats craig. i'm glad to hear that thing works out for you. way to stick to your gun.

Bill

[aseainthesky]

How long is he allowing you to advertise for?

[Mike-DT6]

Ok so dont kill me... lol
This guy called me and this is where we settled.. $500.00 and Photo credit on the mag and site and free advertising on the site. one of those side bar links like the google ad things.. Im pretty stoked as i thought this would have dragged on and on and for a pic i took while on my lunch hour one day, i think i did pretty good!

Well done! Sounds good to me. Maybe he took legal advice and got a shock at what he was told! :lol:

Mike

:-)

[joedlh]

Do not send them the EXIF data. If they're stupid enough to showcase an image for which they didn't pay or acquire rights, then they may not know about the EXIF data. Work with your lawyer and get a copy of their original file. Open it up and see if the EXIF data is still in it. If so, case closed.

If you clue them in about this, they will purge the EXIF data from their file copies. Then you'll have a tougher case.

Also, register the copyright immediately. It might be late, but legal advisors say that you have a better case for damages if the copyright is registered.

Try this web site for your rights: http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/licensing/index.php

[Aj`]

Yeah i would like to say a big well done for making a move on this and sticking your ground, not a bad shoot then really for what came out of it, you ask hi if he wants to use any more pictures of yours lol

[theague]

Congrats on the outcome! :)

[tomd]

nice job.
Sounds like once he figured out you were not some beginner photographer, he realized that he should make this go away before the cost huge.

[jgrussell]

This guy called me and this is where we settled.. $500.00 and Photo credit on the mag and site and free advertising on the site. one of those side bar links like the google ad things.. Im pretty stoked as i thought this would have dragged on and on and for a pic i took while on my lunch hour one day, i think i did pretty good!A first class resolution, fair to all, and you didn't have to sue. Good job!! (And it's a great photo too!)

[12mnkys]

I am glad to hear that it worked out for you!! I thought you handled yourself very professionally!

[DL.Photography]

Great outcome. The photo you took at during lunch just bought you lunch for a few months! lol

[[CaliGirl]]

Way to get paid zacker...you handled the situation well. Good job!

[TheReal7]

I need to find a FEW of my images infringed now. hahaha

[andrew748]

Good job Zacker :)

glad it worked out for you

[seagate]

Excellent outcome, situation really well handled, this could have been ugly.

http://cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/a084.gif

[canonloader]

Well Craig, at least your published now and made the news, all in one shot. :lol:

[octospit]

congrats! good to see it went through!

[Andrushka]

good work man!

[justincase724]

What a resonable ending to this one. I really expected more of a fight. Congratulations.

[HSK]

Glad to see the perpetrator was brought to justice.

[randy.wick]

Glad it's resolved, but... I would have liked to see you get more. At least as much as they charge for a full-page ad :)

[poloman]

Glad you got some cash out of it Zacker!
Was a good show too. Filing out of the theater..........

[DDCSD]

Good job for coming to a reasonable outcome.

Just curious, are they going to continue using the image?

[René Damkot]

we settled.. $500.00 and Photo credit on the mag and site and free advertising on the site. one of those side bar links like the google ad things..
If you are happy, we are!
Congrats!

Probably not worth the hassle to make a further point of being right. Takes up more time (and energy) then it's worth. Pretty okay settlement I'd say.

Be sure to make *very* clear that this compensation is for this use only, so they have to pay again for other use!

[zacker]

thanks guys.. im pretty stoked.. not bad for a photo taken on my lunch break... lol and free advertising too boot.

[jgrussell]

thanks guys.. im pretty stoked.. not bad for a photo taken on my lunch break... lol and free advertising too boot.Just keep tabs and make sure they do what they say. I mean, hey, it's been hours already and the website isn't giving you credit yet! (Immediate gratification takes too long...)

[kirkt]

Zacker, nice work. Get the agreement you made in writing. Way to stick up for your work. They know all about copyright, they just assume that most people will not pursue the issue like you did - they know when their goose is cooked, hence the quick resolution.

Get paid brutha.

Kirk

[82NoMe]

Way to go Zacker...

[MKULTRA]

Congrats man, that's a nice win under your belt :D

[zacker]

What a resonable ending to this one. I really expected more of a fight. Congratulations.

yeah me too... but lets see how long it takes to get paid.. lol

[queenbee288]

Interesting read. A good one for all those members who whine about "your watermark is so distracting".

[TheReal7]

Interesting read. A good one for all those members who whine about "your watermark is so distracting".

Yes and no. :)

Had he had a watermark his photo would have never been stolen thus no $500 settlement. :confused:

[waynedsargent]

Yes and no. :)

Had he had a watermark his photo would have never been stolen thus no $500 settlement. :confused:


Compelling argument! :D:D:D

[DDCSD]

Yes and no. :)

Had he had a watermark his photo would have never been stolen thus no $500 settlement. :confused:

And if his boss was at work he never would have known that he had been robbed to get that settlement. I'd guess that 99% of image theft goes unnoticed. I'd rather not have my images stolen then to hope I get lucky and catch someone using it someday to get a settlement. :)

[w7cma]

Send him an amended invoice with the terms you agreed to. The invoice should have a 10 day net payment on it. This way if he does not pay with in the 10 days you can send a late notice and can be turned in for collection. By doing this you enter into contract and will have some collection leverage. Make sure the invoice has the wording " as agreed on our phone conversation dated XXXX I submit this invoice to correct invoice #XXX. Congratulations on a good win.