Image taken without permission.

[misfit]

I never thought that I'd post here, after all I dont sell images, I'm not a great photographer or pro. After going to see a gig at which a CD album was purchased, my wife spotted my photo in the CD sleeve, photo was ripped from this site. I'm a little pi**ed at this because I'm a fan of the band, and I have discovered that it has been used on the bands myspace, facebook and CD sleeve without prior consent.

I'm at a crossroads with this and don't know what to do, should I let it slide or should I write them a letter stating the obvious, but without being threatning?

Image number 3 was the one that was ripped.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=394989

Cheers guys

[Peacefield]

I'm far from an expert on this stuff. First let me say, for shooting with an XT and the lenses you have, those are three very nice shots.

I'm a collaboration/relationship kind of guy. I would tell you to reach out to them; let them know your a fan. You recognized the use of your photographs and are flattered that they'd want to use them with their own material, but they really should've done the right thing and get in touch with you first.

Where I'm going is this: try to be positive and not angry or threatening. Because the coolest outcome (I would think) is to have the band hire you to do some real commercial work for them. Clearly, they already think pretty highly of your work. Good luck.

[tomslens]

I never thought that I'd post here, after all I dont sell images, I'm not a great photographer or pro. After going to see a gig at which a CD album was purchased, my wife spotted my photo in the CD sleeve, photo was ripped from this site. I'm a little pi**ed at this because I'm a fan of the band, and I have discovered that it has been used on the bands myspace, facebook and CD sleeve without prior consent.

I'm at a crossroads with this and don't know what to do, should I let it slide or should I write them a letter stating the obvious, but without being threatning?

Image number 3 was the one that was ripped.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=394989

Cheers guys

Did you register the image witht he copyright office? If not, do it right now. I wouldn't let it slide. I also don't think you need to go on the offensive. Take a strong stand as they are in the wrong but its up to you how much you want to work with them. At an absolute minimum you should be credited but if you are going to grant them any usage rights, consider making it specific and legal. Using the image for credit only might be fine now but what happens if they go big with the image? If they get paid, you should.

[cory1848]

Being in a band myself, ripping off someones photo would be the last thing I would do. Get one of there CDs, Put your name on it and sell it at their next show as your music...when they complain that you ripped off their music, then educate them on the photo thing... Same issue, different mediums...still no excuse.

[TheHoff]

What were the photo regulations at the concert? Were you allowed to bring a camera in? I'd look at your ticket first to make sure your shot is actually owned by you. If so, I agree on the personable approach -- after all, you're a fan -- you might get some cash or swag, so certainly don't give away your images for free.

[sspellman]

Misfit,

You are right to be frustrated by the use of the photo without permission. As a fan and emerging photographer, you should be able to negociate a trade or $$$ for the use of the picture. A trade could come in the form of merchandise, credit, web links, etc or $50 for the use of the pictures each year.

Of all types of clients, bands should understand the use of creative property. After all, im sure that they would be upset if you used the bands music in an advertisement.

-Scott

[Dennis_Hammer]

I would send them a bill. Inform them just like their music is copyrighted so are your images. And when someone wants to use their compositions they pay, and when someone uses yours especially without permission they pay also.

[silverhalide]

I would send them a bill. Inform them just like their music is copyrighted so are your images. And when someone wants to use their compositions they pay, and when someone uses yours especially without permission they pay also.

If you do send them a bill, or communicate any other sort of price with them, make sure they understand that that's the discounted price to settle the issue right now; if it needs to get a lawyer involved, the price will go higher. You don't want this to become a legal fight after you've established that the max you are asking for is $50. I believe the magic phrase is "without prejudice" -- I've seen several discussions on here about the issue, a search should turn up useful material.

[silverhalide]

What were the photo regulations at the concert? Were you allowed to bring a camera in? I'd look at your ticket first to make sure your shot is actually owned by you. If so, I agree on the personable approach -- after all, you're a fan -- you might get some cash or swag, so certainly don't give away your images for free.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any concert photo regs could take away your copyright -- they may allow the venue to kick you out if you are taking pics, or take away your right to sell the images, but you'd still retain copyright. And since the band is using your images, I'd imagine that a good lawyer could convince them that they've pretty much granted you a model release on the image. And as for selling the images, if you can't sell them, I'm pretty sure no one else can without your permission.

[noxcuses1]

Doesn't seem the band/(or art dept) really cared about this PRIOR to the printing of the CD's, so I say just send them a bill for the usage, your MAX price.

Why be nice at this point as if they REALLY wanted to do business with you, they would have contacted you IN THE FIRST PLACE! It's all about principle and I can GUARANTEE that if it was them that had a song stolen or copyright infringed, I'm sure they would have their panties all in a bind.

Good luck with this. Either way, whether or not you had a photo pass, YOU took the photo, YOU own the rights to the image!


That's why you should ALWAYS watermark your images of bands.

[dekalbSTEEL]

FROM THE MYSPACE T.O.S.:


6. Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.

6.3 You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the MySpace Services or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this Section 6, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the MySpace Services does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person or entity. You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person or entity by reason of any Content posted by you on or through the MySpace Services.

Contact mySpace to have your images removed

[amfoto1]

It always amazes me that musicians, who you would think in particular would be sensitive to intellectual property issues and copyright laws, are sometimes among the first to help themselves to images they find on the web. I found out about a band's website using five of my images that they lifted from my online galleries. Just low res stuff... but still.

On the other hand, I wonder how many photographers' websites are featuring music without permission from its copyright holders?

This sort of thing is why I've reluctantly started adding watermarks to everything I post online. I'm making it "an ad" because I know it will get ripped off in spite of the watermark... So I might as well get some mileage out of it in the process.

[bReed]

register your image and then threaten them and send them a high bill 2,000 or more and then if they refuse to pay it, take them to court.

[ooo]

It's happened to me once, basically I was shooting a show and the performer took my image off my flickr and used it as her invitation card. I just let it go. I learned to just watermark my images from now on.

[misfit]

Thanks for all your responses, it may have been a little stupid of me to not watermark the images, but in honesty I never thought this would happen.

I'll probably chalk this one up as a lesson learned. I'll get my thoughts together and send the band an email, just to make sure they know where they stand.

Again thanks for your help.

Regards

[noxcuses1]

It's happened to me once....... I just let it go.


I'll probably chalk this one up as a lesson learned.


And this is the very reason it keeps happening again and again. :|:|

[jbimages]

misfit, I see you are in Scotland and the photograph was taken there. If the CD cover was printed in in the UK, American copyright law doesn't apply and there is no need to register the image at any copyright office.

In British law the first owner of a copyright is assumed to be the author of a work. If a work is made by an author in the course of employment then the author's employer is the first owner of copyright. Unlike American copyright law, duration of copyright term does not vary regardless of who owns the copyright.

The copyright law is silent on the question of permission to make an image.

[GWLS]

Jeez , for a sceond I thought it was going to be a Setting Sons picture we'd nicked there Misfit :)

[misfit]

Thanks, As far as I know the CD was produced and printed in the EU, as most of the band are now european and their contacts are from Stockholm, as is the designer of the sleeve. The official release of this CD is next month, so the CD will be on general sale in music shops. I have found the name of the management company so will have to do a little digging before I fire off an email.

Another POTN'er has one of his photos in the sleeve also, image number 2 appears in the sleeve with no credits, although the band have a watermarked version on their website.
http://http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=302676&highlight=warrior+soul

Setting Sons are a bit bigtime for me, how's the lighting at the Rossborough though, would I have to sneak my camera past security:lol:

Cheers

[_aravena]

I couldn't find it on MySpace. I wouldn't let it go because the least you deserve is credit and probably some payment since they stole it. If they asked and you were a fan, I'm sure they still would have sent ya an autographed photo. That's disappointing and honestly wouldn't support them again.

[GWLS]

If that happened to me , I'd be after something.
If I was a fan of the band, at least a credit, a letter, signed copies of the pictures.

Crackin shots btw.

[misfit]

I couldn't find it on MySpace. I wouldn't let it go because the least you deserve is credit and probably some payment since they stole it. If they asked and you were a fan, I'm sure they still would have sent ya an autographed photo. That's disappointing and honestly wouldn't support them again.


Third row of the page, linked to full size that was posted here ;)

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=141131770

[JMHPhotography]

If you are the legal copyright owner of the image, and understand the MySpace TOS which leaves no gray area there. A band can't grab images from someone's Myspace page and assume it's cool. However, as some earlier pointed out, sometimes you can forfeit ownership by buying a ticket to an event. It will say something like, "any photographs or recordings taken should be consider property of {insert band or venue, here]. It's worth looking into at least. You'd think with all the Napster crap and RIAA stuff going on, a band would be the last to infringe on a copyright. I would have hoped that they would respect an artists work. Ughh.

[_aravena]

I'd be tempted to "FRIEND" them and just comment them to death.

[WillMass]

Don't know about the UK, but in the US the image must be registered or have been submitted for registration PRIOR to the infringement. If the image isn't already registered, it would be very easy for the band's lawyer to prove that it was not registered at the time.

As to the question about cameras at the show, many performers own the rights to their likeness. If this is the case, and it was so stated on the ticket. They could potentially come after you for taking the photos of their performance without permission.

[izzy35]

hey look at the bright side, the comment on Myspace states, "the best pic of all....like an eagle on stage." :-)

Man if i were you, i don't care WHERE you or they live, they "stole" your property and i would try to get it rectified...If i download their music illegally, i can get charged hundreds in fines!! Not saying it should be a fight, but it should get addressed...DON'T let it slide...bc they sure as heck wouldn't let u slide if their music was bootlegged...

[Mike-DT6]

You could try a different approach and see if you can turn their appreciation of your photography into some official work. Maybe they could get you into some gigs as a photographer. Maybe that could lead to photography jobs for other bands.

If you defend your rightful position regarding copyright, the best you are likely to achieve is them removing your photograph and that will be the end of it.

In your situation I think I would do something along the lines of pointing out that you are the photographer who took that photograph and that you were pleased to see that they like your work. Say that as the copyright holder you normally charge XXX amount (or whatever your terms are) for the use of your work. Then say (if it is indeed the case) that you would be interested in getting some official work and ask if they can help, in return for maybe you giving them some photographs or a discount on future work.

Mike

:-)

[misfit]

Don't know about the UK, but in the US the image must be registered or have been submitted for registration PRIOR to the infringement. If the image isn't already registered, it would be very easy for the band's lawyer to prove that it was not registered at the time.

As to the question about cameras at the show, many performers own the rights to their likeness. If this is the case, and it was so stated on the ticket. They could potentially come after you for taking the photos of their performance without permission.

In the Uk there is no need to register the image. I'm aware and have been to many shows that display photographic rules etc. In this instance there were no such rules in place, moreover I did get permission prior to the event from the venue.

[reelly1]

Am I missing something or is the main thing to me is that it got ripped off of this site! Of all places. Who among us ripped it off? I am sure the band members were not just surfing this forum and found it accidentally. I think you may find they have already "bought" it from someone else. And that someone else is a member of this forum. Or am I way off base and clueless as to what is going on here?

[dekalbSTEEL]

Do a google image search for "Warrior Soul"

His photo is on the first page of results

[Eyelikedurt]

Cheers for the info Misfit. I've not seen the CD sleeve, but might try and find one, and if i'm absolutely certain it's my image in there too i'll e-mail Kory(sp) and ask for an explanation. I'm not going to demand payment, and a credit wouldn't be possible unless they re-printed the album, so i think in this case i'd settle for an apology.

I found one of my images on youtube too for the same band :D Think someone nabbed it off their old website though.

[misfit]

Here you are, I'll save you a bit of hassle. The image is on page 5 of the sleeve.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/misfit100uk/insert2.jpg

regards

[Andrushka]

You could try a different approach and see if you can turn their appreciation of your photography into some official work. Maybe they could get you into some gigs as a photographer. Maybe that could lead to photography jobs for other bands.

If you defend your rightful position regarding copyright, the best you are likely to achieve is them removing your photograph and that will be the end of it.

In your situation I think I would do something along the lines of pointing out that you are the photographer who took that photograph and that you were pleased to see that they like your work. Say that as the copyright holder you normally charge XXX amount (or whatever your terms are) for the use of your work. Then say (if it is indeed the case) that you would be interested in getting some official work and ask if they can help, in return for maybe you giving them some photographs or a discount on future work.

Mike

:-)

if you still have a soft spot in your heart for these guys this is some solid advice!

[Eyelikedurt]

Ah look, my picture.

So then Misfit, what have you decided to do? I've already sent a polite e-mail to a website this morning suggesting they get in touch with the relevant people before using any photography they dont own the copywrite to.