Advice on Model shoots

[swatcop169]

I was approched today about shooting some hooter girls. It seems that they are wanting to start a portfolio.

For you model shooters, what package's do you give? Do you suggest x number of photo's, and package them into a portfolio?

Whats the typical price? I don't want to run these girls off by being to expensive, since this is my first time doing this, it will help me out alot also.

I'm kinda limited on lens right now, 50 1.8, 18-55, and 28-105 USM. They will be taken with my 20D and I'll use my sigma super 500 flash. I also have some home made lights. Reflectors bought at home depot and I use 100 watt GE Reveal bulbs in them. Any way to maybe soften those lights up?

I do have model release forms which will be signed.

[PhotosGuy]

Have you googled [NC "modeling agencies"] to see what the competition is doing in your area? Prices here are a lot different from NYC & LA. ;-)

[swatcop169]

Well some of the answers on other forums has lead me to maybe do a cheap setting fee, $50-$100 and then just do TFCD. Take 10-12 shots

[Red]

Hmmmm, who do we know that does modelling shoots in North Carolina? I'm sure there must be someone :lol:

[ilcounican]

i cannot answer for others, nor can i say what the going rate in nc would be, but i work out of philly and generally do time-for-prints/CD whenever i need a model to promo my work. when models approach me for portfolio help or development i offer them a cd of about 100-150 images taken during a 2 hour shoot for $250. the company i shoot for is expanding its model services now, but that is the basic package we offer for on-location work. i don't know how that might help/hurt what you do down there.

[Mike Panic]

if this is your first time doing it and you have no experiance - do a few TFP or TFCD shoots to build your name and your style

[iwatkins]

As Mike says. Do it for free, or if you have to, at cost only.

This way you are almost sure to get the job and you will be building your portfolio, which should (if managed correctly) generate you more paying work.

As for lighting, it does sound as though you are a little limited there. Possibly invest further in lighting or easier still, shoot outdoors at a nice local location.

Ian

[charlesu]

Never turn down any money.

:)

[Fills]

I wouldn't do it for free at all. At least cost (equipment, travel whatever) plus a few dollars for yourself and your time, you'll still be the cheapest, so if they don't do it, they aren't serious.

[Mike Panic]

Never turn down any money.

:)
i disagree - say you charge $150 for arguments sake and the photos come out to be a total flop - you give the client a cd - what do you think they are going to tell their friends and family - DONT use him/her - horrible quality AND i had to pay $150 for it..

you can't get a drivers license and expect to race in the indy 500 the same year - you have to practice... and you shouldnt be practicing on clients who are paying you to learn your trade - learn your trade on your time, not theirs

[Mike Panic]

I wouldn't do it for free at all. At least cost (equipment, travel whatever) plus a few dollars for yourself and your time, you'll still be the cheapest, so if they don't do it, they aren't serious.

ok lemme see here:

10d > 1500
grip > 220
50mm f/1.8 > 80
24-70 f/2.8L > 1200
3 alienbee b800 strobes > 900
3 light stands > 150
36" reflector > 50
background stand > 150
white/black/red background > paper 50/roll

thats $4400 right there - not including my monthly rent at the studio space im using... and by your reasoning, i still need to pay myself, gas money , etc.

just because someone is doing TFP work does NOT mean they are not serious about their craft... it means that they relize that they are humble enough to admit they are still learning their craft and would like to shoot with people who are doing the same. ive worked with pro models (pro meaning - this is how they make their living) and ive shot w/ models whom this was their first time - there is DEF a difference... there is nothing wrong w/ doing TFP work - and people won't think any less of you.

if you do decide to do it, have them sign a model release and let them know the reason that you are requesting it is so that you can use your photos w/ their image to promote yourself via the web, print or other mediums, and / or to sell as stock photos to compensate you for your time

[swatcop169]

Thanks guys, this was the same answer I was getting on FM, charge a cheap setting fee, $50-$100 then do the shots for TFCD. This is my first time, and the weather here has been pretty nice, high 60's low 70's so that might be a great time for outdoor shoots. Problem is finding a place to do them? Thats where I'll be stuck.

I would like to get a couple softboxes to add to my collection to do indoor stuff, but my funds are limited at this moment which really sucks.

Anyone know where to get a great model release form? I've got a standard but was told to look for something with more detail?

[ilcounican]

when building my online portfolio using promo models, i went through hundreds of releases. it was a struggle trying to boost my skills and develop a style that people would recognize as my own. at the same time i started to lose money because i was spending more on the models than i was making in the business. eventually, i had to curtail the time investment in free photos for models. (at some point, you won't need to practice THAT much anyway!) i have to agree with mike panic:
you can't get a drivers license and expect to race in the indy 500 the same year - you have to practice... and you shouldnt be practicing on clients who are paying you to learn your trade - learn your trade on your time, not theirs
10d > 1500
grip > 220
50mm f/1.8 > 80
24-70 f/2.8L > 1200
3 alienbee b800 strobes > 900
3 light stands > 150
36" reflector > 50
background stand > 150
white/black/red background > paper 50/roll

thats $4400 right there - not including my monthly rent at the studio space im using... and by your reasoning, i still need to pay myself, gas money , etc.
You really do have to build yourself before you can hope to help build someone else, i.e. a model looking to develop her portfolio. Again, CONSIDER, TFP/CD... but count your costs. Weigh them into the cost/benefit ratio. (i wish i had gotten some of this advice when i FIRST started in photography years ago!!!)

[Fills]

ok lemme see here:

10d > 1500
grip > 220
50mm f/1.8 > 80
24-70 f/2.8L > 1200
3 alienbee b800 strobes > 900
3 light stands > 150
36" reflector > 50
background stand > 150
white/black/red background > paper 50/roll

thats $4400 right there - not including my monthly rent at the studio space im using... and by your reasoning, i still need to pay myself, gas money , etc.

just because someone is doing TFP work does NOT mean they are not serious about their craft... it means that they relize that they are humble enough to admit they are still learning their craft and would like to shoot with people who are doing the same. ive worked with pro models (pro meaning - this is how they make their living) and ive shot w/ models whom this was their first time - there is DEF a difference... there is nothing wrong w/ doing TFP work - and people won't think any less of you.

if you do decide to do it, have them sign a model release and let them know the reason that you are requesting it is so that you can use your photos w/ their image to promote yourself via the web, print or other mediums, and / or to sell as stock photos to compensate you for your time

Honestly man, you're too much. :rolleyes: I assumed people know what I was talking about when I say equipment, such as wear and tear etc, nothing is free and I know lots of people will agree with me that giving away your pictures is the worst thing you can do... You gave your advise and I gave mine... don't attack my post with sarcastic remarks.

[Mike Panic]

thats not an attack - sorry if i dont know your personality or sense of sarcasim - this is the internet... text only remember - no facial expressions, no change in voice pitch or tone.

that said -what is wear and tear on a digital camera and lens for 2-3 hrs of shooting worth? i bet if you leave a brand new body in the box for 6 months it will decline more in resale value then a few hundred clicks on it.

again - i stand by my words from above - learn on your own time, not your clients time

[PhotosGuy]

I was approched today about shooting some hooter girls. It seems that they are wanting to start a portfolio. You might consider practicing on someone else. If you do one of these for free, every "hooter girls" within 400 miles will want free pics!
Models
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=444472#post444472
Longwatcher's Standard Model Release
http://www.longwatcher.com/model_release_standard.htm

[pugnugget]

To get my practice, my girfriend becomes my model whether she wants to or not! I take a good 400 + pics of her a day, and I'll tell you, there's still a lot I need to learn! My almost 2 yr. old son is a good model for me to. Plus, shooting those two doesn't cost me anything.. just gets in much needed practice in all areas. I've done "practice" shots for friends and such, and I've always charged then something small like $50. Just to cover the cost of gas, time and such.

But I do agree with practicing on your own time, not the models.

[blundar]

I have two basic rates.

If I am not confident that I can deliver quality shots, or it is for a charity event, or I expect to make money from prints; I'll charge $60/hr with a minimum of 2 hours. If I really screw it up and did not end up with good pictures, I'll offer to reshoot for nothing.

For most of my normal shoots, I charge $100/hr with a minimum of 2 hours. This price is not per model, its per shoot. I will sometimes shoot 4 models in 1 session for about 3 hours. Each model typically ends up with a hundred photos in a CD a week or so latter.

Always get model releases signed and witnessed prior to starting the shoot. Also make sure to ask for valid ID (this is a leagal document).

With a model release you can use the photos as part of your portfolio or web site, and also upload the photos to a stock photo agency to make some additional money that way.

[GerryDavid]

I have two basic rates.

If I am not confident that I can deliver quality shots, or it is for a charity event, or I expect to make money from prints; I'll charge $60/hr with a minimum of 2 hours. If I really screw it up and did not end up with good pictures, I'll offer to reshoot for nothing.

Not sure where I read it, but some advice I read was to charge charities for the full rate, then write them a check for a donation. This way you can write off the donation in full, not just your costs. This way you could write off the $80 you discounted them.

I would want to confirm this with an accountant first just to make sure, since accounting rules may be different in each state/province.

[LarrySilva]

Having been there myself, if you could get a sitting fee, take it, but the rest should be TFCD. I wouldn't though limit the work. I would do as much as possible for experience. Give her full access to the entire shoot, (except out of focus, test etc...) Also let her know she would get a cut if she recommends anyone or would get a free follow after X amount of referrals. Work on a look and style and fine tune your skills in this area. Working with models is very different than portraiture. Ive done mostly models through out the country and am now going the other way, to portraits.

Larry from Philly

[sswanson]

Not sure where I read it, but some advice I read was to charge charities for the full rate, then write them a check for a donation.


Forget the discount or what you charge, that doesn't have any bearing. What does have a bearing is the fact that you gave a donation. Keep in mind that not all charities have a tax deductible status, so you may not be any further ahead.

[sspellman]

Swatcop-

My personal standard is not to charge for any photo project where I cannot demonstrate professional results with existing portfolio pictures. How else do you know you can actually deliver professional results to the client? People often assume that good pictures in one type of photography means that you will be good at all types-big mistake.

Modeling/Fashion photography is very specialized and requires good resources and experience to deliver the right results. Locations, makeup, hair, clothing styling, color coordination, studio lighting, and much more are all required to give professional results. It seems like you have not done this, and there is no way you should charge.

-Scott

[DocFrankenstein]

Why don't you show us your portfolio? That's the best indicator of your skills.

If it's strong - the charge a lot. If it isn't - then do a freebie.

[DocFrankenstein]

Have you googled [NC "modeling agencies"] to see what the competition is doing in your area? Prices here are a lot different from NYC & LA. ;-)
Why do you automatically assume he's on the same level as the modeling agencies? I don't see any indications.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[GerryDavid]

Since this thread is about a year and a half old, Im wondering how things worked out.