Hasselblad ..... which one?

[Tareq]

Hey all,

I was talking with a salesman here in a local store, and we discussed some things, and he told me that there are few Hasselblad cameras coming in the way [he said 39 and 50], and many times i told him i will try to save and wish to get one, after short discussion about the photography club i am a member and about my photography i told him that i really crazy about Hasselblad H3D, then he told me if i can give him some money then i pay him later every month, he told me if i can give him about $5500 or $6000 then he can give me the body [i am not sure which one, but i told before in the past that i don't want H3D 31, so either 39 or 50], i told him i can give you about $9000 or even 10k, he said ok, but he will check again with the boss or someone i don't know if they will accept that but i think he told me i am a special friend and he will do this offer for me only, i hope he can accept to give me that 50mp, WOW, i will be very happy.

So know, if he will tell me i can't give you 50mp, but i can give you only either 31 or 39, so do you think people i should get 39mp for ahwile and upgrade it later? i was dreaming about 39mp in the past but now with 50mp and 60mp in the future i feel i want that and not 31 or 39 but still so over my budget, but i am happy that this saleman is so cooperative and he will help me to get my first medium format [there are cheaper MF i know, but i want Hasselblad as my dream], so again, 39 or 50?

I will use it only for some work in studio and advertiement in the future when i can get something, and i have some photos i was looking to print up to 2 or 3meters, i know those Canon cameras can do that but still MF are kings for larger prints with higher resolution closer.

[400dabuser]

Blimey, Hasselblads are way to expensive. Mainly used for putting up large posters and astronauts

[Tareq]

Blimey, Hasselblads are way to expensive. Mainly used for putting up large posters and astronauts

So whats the problem? Yes, i is very expensive, but the salesman told me that i can pay about half or 1/3 the price and then i pay later by installment i think, so in this case i can get it as soon as possible and pay later when i can earn something every month.

about large print, i always wanted to print as large as a camera can, not always stay with A5 or A4 up to A2, here in my country some clients and i shoot in a sports clubs want some posters or wall size, so does that Hasselblad for rich and pro photographers only? we can't use or dream about it.

[400dabuser]

Can I spoil the party here, this is really a Canon based photography forum, ok, you have seen some Nikon threads, but most of us here, are Canon

OK, so you want to print in large format, since I have no experience of large format cameras, I wouldn't really know what to say or recommend which one

[Permagrin]

Tareq, Hasselblads are beautiful cameras.

Aside from their price, the lens and accessory prices, there are a few things that make them really not for everyday use.

the H3DII's iso options are the highest with (100, 200, 400 & 800) as options. But I believe the other models only go to iso 400. Often that's not practical.

It's shutter speeds only go from 32 -1/800. Obviously that's not really going to make it an action camera.

Time btw. shots is 1.2 seconds...definitely not a speed shooting camera.

It's very heavy so it's not a walk around camera. IMO this is really meant for studios and I don't know that you'd notice a huge (worth the price difference) from a 1dsIII (for less than half the money) for regular shots.

[Tareq]

Can I spoil the party here, this is really a Canon based photography forum, ok, you have seen some Nikon threads, but most of us here, are Canon

OK, so you want to print in large format, since I have no experience of large format cameras, I wouldn't really know what to say or recommend which one

Yes i know, but there are threads talking about another cameras, i didn't ask to talk about Hasselblad camera, i asked only for recommendation to choose one of two, so no offend.

[Tareq]

Tareq, Hasselblads are beautiful cameras.

Aside from their price, the lens and accessory prices, there are a few things that make them really not for everyday use.

the H3DII's iso options are the highest with (100, 200, 400 & 800) as options. But I believe the other models only go to iso 400. Often that's not practical.

It's shutter speeds only go from 32 -1/800. Obviously that's not really going to make it an action camera.

Time btw. shots is 1.2 seconds...definitely not a speed shooting camera.

It's very heavy so it's not a walk around camera. IMO this is really meant for studios and I don't know that you'd notice a huge (worth the price difference) from a 1dsIII (for less than half the money) for regular shots.

I know about all that, i said i will use it for studio works, and for the sports club some players would like to have their own portraits in so large posters size, so in all those situations i will be using studio lighting with means i will be using ISO 200 maximum, Shutter speed up to 1/250, and with one shot i will never use high FPS, so did i say i want this camera for actions and high speed shooting? i know this camera is mostly used in studios for fashion/glamor, portraits, products,..... so i am thinking to those in the near future.
Heavy? is it really heavier than 1D series + 400/600? i will not walk in the streets or outdoor carrying my Hasselblad, and still i have my Canon gear, i will not sell them for hasselblad.

OK, seems no one here recommend me to get a medium format at all.

[Permagrin]

I was just pointing out it's downsides. No offense meant. I don't know anyone who wouldn't take one if they could. :)

I'm just not sure that it's worth going into debt for. But everyone has their own opinions on that.

[Tareq]

I was just pointing out it's downsides. No offense meant. I don't know anyone who wouldn't take one if they could. :)

I'm just not sure that it's worth going into debt for. But everyone has their own opinions on that.

I see, don't worry, i printed the specifications of these cameras and i know what they are look like, i even tried H3D 31 in the store there, and i have a general idea about it, the problem is this camera seems like the Ferrari of the cars maybe more, so i always dream to get one even just to look at it, but i will do everything to work with it in those fields, i started to call some magazines and try to check some agencies or companies that i may get something with them, but i feel this camera is ultimate and i want to own one sooner or later.

[chauncey]

Hey Tareq

The others might not know of you, but I do, and I know of your quality work and desire to learn.
My suggestion...go for it and enjoy every minute with it. ;)

[Tixeon]

Tareq; I used a pair of (film based) Hasselblad 2000FCW's for 25 years & never regretted it. Like Chauncey said, "Go for it" if you can afford it. I'd look at the 39 or 50 for sure.

[Tareq]

OK, i will check with the sales guy and see how it will go, if he didn't accept and i couldn't afford doesn't matter, one day i may get one.
Just i should get 39mp or i should try 31 for awhile if he didn't accept the offer with 30 or 50?

[hard12find]

Remember that with 39 or 50 MP you will need a very robust computer to process efficiently.
Jim

[DrPablo]

If it's only the occasional print you want that big, for god's sake spend $600 on a Hasselblad 500 c/m with an 80mm Zeiss CT* Planar, $3 for a roll of film and $3 to process the roll, then spend $50 to $100 on a professional scan and you'll have a 100 megapixel image.

Honestly, it makes no sense to spend $10,000 or more on a camera in order to make 5 or 10 huge prints. You can do it FAR more cheaply in other ways. Do the same thing with a 4x5 system and you can get 350 megapixel images with a $500 camera and a $100 scan.

[sapearl]

Not only that, but as long as you have surplus cash you can spend less than $2K on one of the top notch Minolta or Nikon MF scanners and scan all the film negatives you want.

Hasselblads are wonderful machines - I used their analog bodies for a number of years. As good as the new digital cousins are you'd be paying a ton of money for something less versatile and flexible in some ways than our current crop of dSLR's. Not slamming the 'blads - just that machines like you describe have somewhat narrow niche uses as opposed to others on the market. And if you go the digital 'blad route, make sure you have plenty of large supplemental hard drives ;)

If it's only the occasional print you want that big, for god's sake spend $600 on a Hasselblad 500 c/m with an 80mm Zeiss CT* Planar, $3 for a roll of film and $3 to process the roll, then spend $50 to $100 on a professional scan and you'll have a 100 megapixel image.

Honestly, it makes no sense to spend $10,000 or more on a camera in order to make 5 or 10 huge prints. You can do it FAR more cheaply in other ways. Do the same thing with a 4x5 system and you can get 350 megapixel images with a $500 camera and a $100 scan.

[brianch]

If you can afford it I say go for it, but financing it would just put you in debt, a time where debt is not such a good idea. You just need to ask yourself whether you need to go that far. Hasselblad digitals are very expensive. If you are going to get the 30MP one, why not get a 1Ds Mark III? OR Wait for the 1Ds Mark IV, it might be 30MP.

[danpass]

Tough call. Big sensor = big pixels = tres awesomenicity

I played with an MF digital back once, a Mamiya 645AFD, P45 back, 120 macro prime manual focus:



http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v3/p281506002.jpg

http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v3/p274155422.jpg

http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v3/p550488078.jpg

http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v3/p902986200.jpg

http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v5/p849630412.jpg

[DrPablo]

Dan, here's a $500 4x5 view camera and a scanner at work. This would naturally enlarge to the size of a wall at 300 dpi.

http://www.pbase.com/drpablo74/image/64577780.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/drpablo74/image/106335467.jpg

[sapearl]

Pretty impressive Doc - film still has a few tricks up it's sleeve ;). - Stu

[Tareq]

I asked that salesman before if he can sell that H3D as a film camera, so it will not be H3D maybe, so if i want to buy a digital back later i will do that.
I read about many many medium and large formats camera, but always i end up to wish to get H3D no doubt, i can get Mamyia or even Hasselblad H2 or 500 series but as long i am staying with digital i feel that i will hate o use film these days and go to lab and scanning, will take longer time than getting file digitally from the camera itself.
I know it is very expensive, but as i said above, i am always dreaming about this H3D camera and i was going to save for it sooner or later, i know many here think it is a bad idea to buy this camera for few print and no much using, yes i agree, but it is that collecting bug, and when i used H3D once in the shop even i don't know how to use it i felt i hate all my Canon gear.

@Brianch, I have 1Ds MarkIII

To be honest, many Medium Formats with digital back if above 30mp will be very expensive, because digital back is so expensive itself, so technically if i think about any good enough medium format with digital back then i have to e ready to spend above $10k, i don't want even Mamyia ZD kit which coming in about $9000

[Tareq]

Sinar and Phase one Digital backs coming closer in prices with Hasselblad, but i don't know why i see in many shots somewhere that Hasselblad is most used with Mamyia more than Sinar or Phose one [some using Phase one digital back on Mamyia, but Phose one cameras are not common used maybe].

[sapearl]

Well Tareq, if that's your dream camera and you don't mind an effective cost of several hundred dollars per print I say go for it. You can obviously afford it and I'm happy for you.

I don't mean to sound negative - no pun intended - but not having your resources the majority of us have to take a more practical approach to financing our photography. As a result some of us have difficulty identifying with your purchase dilemma, especially with the way our local economies are going. The purchase price of that 'blad is enough to pay the downpayment on a modest home here. :rolleyes:

[PhotosGuy]

Dan, here's a $500 4x5 view camera and a scanner at work. This would naturally enlarge to the size of a wall at 300 dpi. That's my choice, too. only for some work in studio and advertiement in the future You get PC (perspective control) which is a bonus. Wait a few years & the price of the Blad you want will be cut in half when other people upgrade.

[danpass]

Dan, here's a $500 4x5 view camera and a scanner at work. This would naturally enlarge to the size of a wall at 300 dpi.






Cheater. Everyone knows that film, being analog, is essentially infinite pixels :cool:



;)

[danpass]

I asked that salesman before if he can sell that H3D as a film camera, so it will not be H3D maybe, so if i want to buy a digital back later i will do that.
I read about many many medium and large formats camera, but always i end up to wish to get H3D no doubt, i can get Mamyia or even Hasselblad H2 or 500 series but as long i am staying with digital i feel that i will hate o use film these days and go to lab and scanning, will take longer time than getting file digitally from the camera itself.
I know it is very expensive, but as i said above, i am always dreaming about this H3D camera and i was going to save for it sooner or later, i know many here think it is a bad idea to buy this camera for few print and no much using, yes i agree, but it is that collecting bug, and when i used H3D once in the shop even i don't know how to use it i felt i hate all my Canon gear.

@Brianch, I have 1Ds MarkIII

To be honest, many Medium Formats with digital back if above 30mp will be very expensive, because digital back is so expensive itself, so technically if i think about any good enough medium format with digital back then i have to e ready to spend above $10k, i don't want even Mamyia ZD kit which coming in about $9000


Even a 21mp MF digital back is superior to FF digital. You just can't get past those big pixels. :)

[Tareq]

Well Tareq, if that's your dream camera and you don't mind an effective cost of several hundred dollars per print I say go for it. You can obviously afford it and I'm happy for you.

I don't mean to sound negative - no pun intended - but not having your resources the majority of us have to take a more practical approach to financing our photography. As a result some of us have difficulty identifying with your purchase dilemma, especially with the way our local economies are going. The purchase price of that 'blad is enough to pay the downpayment on a modest home here. :rolleyes:

We don't have that problem in financial as you had, maybe my income is not good enough at all, but our economy is still great, UAE doing all the best to be good in economy and what happened there will make us to have a lesson and not do mistakes.

I know it is expensive as i said, and i will not pay the full cash, just in parts, the guy told me he will do that to help me to get into Medium Format world by Haselblad, and i know myself even if i use another MF film i will never stop thinking about Hasselblad, so i waste more money to test some cheaper MF cameras if i know i will end up with Hasselblad? i go direct to Hassy and save more than trying many MFs.

That's my choice, too. You get PC (perspective control) which is a bonus. Wait a few years & the price of the Blad you want will be cut in half when other people upgrade.

I didn't get the point, is that mean i have to get a used one? and why i should always waiting? ofcourse i will look for latest gear anyway, so even those people will upgrade theirs so the old blads will be cheaper i will look at the latest hassy, will that make any difference then.

Cheater. Everyone knows that film, being analog, is essentially infinite pixels :cool:



;)

;)

Even a 21mp MF digital back is superior to FF digital. You just can't get past those big pixels. :)

Thats what i think too, even 16mp MF is better than 21mp FF DSLR, so if i go with 39mp MF or more, which DSLR can be equivalent now then?

[danpass]

Toward the bottom of this page you can download full size files (Phase One digital back) to compare various MF sizes with the Canon 1DsM3.

http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/


.

[Tareq]

Toward the bottom of this page you can download full size files (Phase One digital back) to compare various MF sizes with the Canon 1DsM3.

http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/


.

OK, i will give it a look, thanks!
Too bad they didn't add anything from Hassy H3D, as this is the only MF i am looking at.

[brianch]

do you not like the 1Ds Mark III>? o.0

[sapearl]

Based on everything he's said so far I believe it is simply the GIGANTIC file sizes he's after as well as the Hasselblad name. Part of that I can understand. For years I shot MF Mamiya which did the job, until I could afford the Hassy and those Zeiss lenses.

I could see the difference in that jump. But to do what he is proposing for the type of work I contract, it would not be cost effective, my clients don't care/don't see the difference, and I simply could not afford it. But that's just me ;).

do you not like the 1Ds Mark III>? o.0

[brianch]

i would only consider getting a hasselblad if I was doing photography full time, and I had enough work to justify a hasselblad. And even then I would probably get a 1Ds Mark III. I think an enthusiast or part time photographer investing in systems like the 1Ds Mark III and medium format backs is extreme, but that is just me. But then again, people buy Lamborghini's and drive them on the street.

[Tareq]

do you not like the 1Ds Mark III>? o.0

Based on everything he's said so far I believe it is simply the GIGANTIC file sizes he's after as well as the Hasselblad name. Part of that I can understand. For years I shot MF Mamiya which did the job, until I could afford the Hassy and those Zeiss lenses.

I could see the difference in that jump. But to do what he is proposing for the type of work I contract, it would not be cost effective, my clients don't care/don't see the difference, and I simply could not afford it. But that's just me ;).

i would only consider getting a hasselblad if I was doing photography full time, and I had enough work to justify a hasselblad. And even then I would probably get a 1Ds Mark III. I think an enthusiast or part time photographer investing in systems like the 1Ds Mark III and medium format backs is extreme, but that is just me. But then again, people buy Lamborghini's and drive them on the street.

And thats why i am wondering, is Hasselblad for pro and full photographers only? 1Ds MarkIII is a professional camera and all 1-series cameras so why many non pro getting it then? because it is cheaper or affordable? so if money is not an issue then we can get any camera in the world even if it is the best and most expensive. And i want to use a medium format at least even i am a novice or hobbyist, i just don't want to use only cameras in $1000-5000 range because i am not a pro yet, and it is weird that only pro can use cameras that cost $30k, i am sure if they use those cameras that cost $1000 they will never become pros, but i care about myself now, if i want a camera and i can afford it one way or another then why not.

I know this thread will go this way 100%, but my OP question was to get 31 first or i should just think of 39mp and above only, still i am not sure that offer the salesman told me about 31 or 39, as he said there are H3D coming soon to the store, only 39 and 50 and he told me to afford even $6000, but i told him i will give him $10k so then i don't take longer to pay the rest later.

[Tareq]

oh i forgot to say that i won in a local competition with second place [Sports competition], and the prize of second place is 20,000 AED [about $5400], and i have enough in my savings and some in card and earn from another business, so i can hardly reach around $9k-12k, all that without a problem of my bills and my another life spend, so let's not talk about money issue here, and just focus about my option of which, not an option of to get or not.

[brianch]

if you have the money to get it, noone is stopping you. I am guessing most people on this forum can not afford/does not want to afford the Hasselblad H3D. I was just shocked that anyone is buying that camera, maybe because I personally would never want to afford something like that. But of course for those who can, it is a great option whether it seems pratical for most people or not. I think you might be better off asking in a Hasselblad forum, I have passed by one once, and it seems pretty active. I don't think there are many hasselblad users on this forum. We are just average Joes here. At least most of us. I hope you get the one you want, you only live life once. I say just get it, seems like you already have your heart set anyways. I would get the most expensive one, the one that should be arriving in the store soon. New toys are always the best. edit: just did some research, i think this model would be suitable for what you do. Hasselblad H3D-39II

[Tareq]

if you have the money to get it, noone is stopping you. I am guessing most people on this forum can not afford/does not want to afford the Hasselblad H3D. I was just shocked that anyone is buying that camera, maybe because I personally would never want to afford something like that. But of course for those who can, it is a great option whether it seems pratical for most people or not. I think you might be better off asking in a Hasselblad forum, I have passed by one once, and it seems pretty active. I don't think there are many hasselblad users on this forum. We are just average Joes here. At least most of us. I hope you get the one you want, you only live life once. I say just get it, seems like you already have your heart set anyways. I would get the most expensive one, the one that should be arriving in the store soon. New toys are always the best.

OK, i will check with the guy, for me if i can't get 50 then i will start with 39 anyway, still it was my dream before that 50 is coming out, and the salesman told me that i can use 39mp now, and when i have more money the difference between 39 and 50 then i can replace my 39 with 50 without buying 50 again full cash, and in this way i can stay upgrading in less spending than keeping bodies and pay again full for new body, but i hope i hope i can earn more these days coming, so then i can go with 50 instead of 39mp, i can't wait to use it [any] and learn with it fast so i will start higher level in my area when i can, just i didn't start any business in photography as many there out using Medium formats and many agencies or companies here wants those over DSLRs owners, it is really ridiculous so fine, i will get a MF and see what they will say then.

[airfrogusmc]

Theres noth'n like a Blad.

I shot with 500C/Ms for 20 + years. Theres not a better portrait camera or format for portraits especially square. I know the new digital Blads are not square but you can get square backs for say a 500 C/M.

You think L glass is pricey? What'll ya get a load of the price Hassy Zeiss but its worth it.

[Tareq]

Theres noth'n like a Blad.

I shot with 500C/Ms for 20 + years. Theres not a better portrait camera or format for portraits especially square. I know the new digital Blads are not square but you can get square backs for say a 500 C/M.

You think L glass is pricey? What'll ya get a load of the price Hassy Zeiss but its worth it.


I was very close to buy either Mamyia 645 II/III or this Hasselblad 500/503, but i know that i will not have much fun with film, in my country all or most pros using digital even with MF, because no many films labs here and most accept digital more than film, even those labs which films prices are so expensive hi, so my option is to be in safe side and get Digital MF, and what comes to mind is Hasselblad H3D.

[airfrogusmc]

I've shot wit most of the major film medium format cameras and I always prefered Hasselblad and the 500 series and CF lenses. But I'm sure the digital blads are every bit as rewarding to shoot with. Good luck and keep us in the loop.

[Tareq]

Thanks!

[sapearl]

It's for anybody who wants to spend the money for it - pure and simple.

But Tareq, in general it is NOT wierd that only pro's in general use camera's that cost $30K. That's because it's the rare amateur that can afford that huge sum of money. Pro's are generally the ones that make enough money to afford that sort of thing. You are very fortunate to be the amateur exception to the rule, who can actually afford a digital 'blad.

But your other statement is completely false if I understand you correctly.

You are saying " i am sure if they use those cameras that cost $1000 they will never become pros," - Many, many pro photographers throughout the world have produced beautiful images with far, far less gear. You are making it sound like the gear is more important than the skill, creativity and ability of the photographer. I could not disagree more, but if the 'blad is what you want then go for it.

But more importantly - congratulations on winning in the photography competition. That is certainly something to be very proud of. Is there a link to that photo somewhere?

And thats why i am wondering, is Hasselblad for pro and full photographers only? ........, i just don't want to use only cameras in $1000-5000 range because i am not a pro yet, and it is weird that only pro can use cameras that cost $30k, i am sure if they use those cameras that cost $1000 they will never become pros, but i care about myself now, if i want a camera and i can afford it one way or another then why not.........

[DrPablo]

Based on everything he's said so far I believe it is simply the GIGANTIC file sizes he's after as well as the Hasselblad name.I'm actually not so intimidated by those file sizes. I mean the largest files I work with are 4000 dpi 16-bit scans of 4x5 film -- they are around 1.8 gigabytes and 320 megapixels. THAT will make your computer puke up its processor. With 4 GB of RAM it takes a good 5 minutes just to open the file up. But change it to 8-bit (not much reason to have 16-bit scans anyway) and you've got a 900 megabyte file that actually is not too hard to work with.

A 50 megapixel file even in 16-bits would be a cakewalk :p

But Tareq, in general it is NOT wierd that only pro's in general use camera's that cost $30K. That's because it's the rare amateur that can afford that huge sum of money. Pro's are generally the ones that make enough money to afford that sort of thingAnd it's an itemizable business expense, so it's tax deductable. And many of these pros are employed by magazines or other bigger entities that will fund that equipment (so that it doesn't really belong to them). And many pros just lease or rent a camera like that for a specific job -- so it ends up costing a few hundred dollars to use it for a few days (and you have to put your house down as a deposit), but you get to use it without buying it.

Fiscal responsibility is seldom talked about among gearheads. But my god isn't there anything else we can do with money besides buy more toys? I mean why not put it in the bank and let it get some interest?

You think L glass is pricey? What'll ya get a load of the price Hassy Zeiss but its worth it.Nah, only if it's new. The CT* series by almost all measures are just as good as the CF T* and CFi T*, and they go for a song. I mean to get a 150 f/4 CT* Sonnar for under $500 is pretty easy; the 80 f/2.8 CT* Planar is under $300 usually, and the 50 f/4 CT* Distagon is around $500.

[airfrogusmc]

I'm actually not so intimidated by those file sizes. I mean the largest files I work with are 4000 dpi 16-bit scans of 4x5 film -- they are around 1.8 gigabytes and 320 megapixels. THAT will make your computer puke up its processor. With 4 GB of RAM it takes a good 5 minutes just to open the file up. But change it to 8-bit (not much reason to have 16-bit scans anyway) and you've got a 900 megabyte file that actually is not too hard to work with.

A 50 megapixel file even in 16-bits would be a cakewalk :p

And it's an itemizable business expense, so it's tax deductable. And many of these pros are employed by magazines or other bigger entities that will fund that equipment (so that it doesn't really belong to them). And many pros just lease or rent a camera like that for a specific job -- so it ends up costing a few hundred dollars to use it for a few days (and you have to put your house down as a deposit), but you get to use it without buying it.

Fiscal responsibility is seldom talked about among gearheads. But my god isn't there anything else we can do with money besides buy more toys? I mean why not put it in the bank and let it get some interest?

Nah, only if it's new. The CT* series by almost all measures are just as good as the CF T* and CFi T*, and they go for a song. I mean to get a 150 f/4 CT* Sonnar for under $500 is pretty easy; the 80 f/2.8 CT* Planar is under $300 usually, and the 50 f/4 CT* Distagon is around $500.

Its been a while since I've priced Hassy stuff. HMMM with prices like that I might just look into picking a body and a 50mm kens up. I think i paid almost $6000 for my 180 CF in the mid 1990s. .

[DrPablo]

Man, just trawl Craigslist. This is local for you: http://chicago.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=hasselblad

This one is highway robbery: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/pho/953406216.html
Another great kit: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/pho/951014720.html

Here was the kit I bought in Boston, all for $1400:

Hasselblad 500 c/m body
Zeiss 50/4 CT* Distagon
Zeiss 80/2.8 CT* Planar
Zeiss 150/4 CT* Sonnar
Waist level finder
90 degree prism finder
Zeiss filter kit (two softars, a starlight, and a UV)
Flash bracket
Pistol grip
Two A12 (120) backs
Compendium shade with square filter holder
Three lens hoods
Three extension tubes (10mm, 21mm, and 56mm)
And a bunch of other little doohickeys

[Wilt]

Digital technology changes too rapidly still. If you bought a digital back from Leaf or Aptus just a few years ago, a brand new higher technology unit would have replaced that by now! So medium format digital seems to beg the practice of a business lease for working photographers.

[Bumgardnern]

I think that you should get whichever camera that you can afford right now. I have used the 39mp camera and can say that the files are amazing. I have yet to even see the 50mp version. Boas makes a great system and I don't think that you will be let down by any of the cameras if you know what you are getting in to and the system limitations.

[brianch]

OK, i will check with the guy, for me if i can't get 50 then i will start with 39 anyway, still it was my dream before that 50 is coming out, and the salesman told me that i can use 39mp now, and when i have more money the difference between 39 and 50 then i can replace my 39 with 50 without buying 50 again full cash, and in this way i can stay upgrading in less spending than keeping bodies and pay again full for new body, but i hope i hope i can earn more these days coming, so then i can go with 50 instead of 39mp, i can't wait to use it [any] and learn with it fast so i will start higher level in my area when i can, just i didn't start any business in photography as many there out using Medium formats and many agencies or companies here wants those over DSLRs owners, it is really ridiculous so fine, i will get a MF and see what they will say then.

how is the market for the digital backs? you could get the 39 now, sell it later and get the 50.. because 50... is 50... that would be insane resolution and detail. DROOOOOL

[Tareq]

Thanks all.
For now i should think about myself, it is a tool at the end, and i don't care much about the business issue, some people can afford expensive tools even they don't use it professionally and some professionals can't afford it but they have to rent or earn money by their profession to fund their tools, ok, i will start a business sooner or later not in photography, so in this case i am not worry about money, and because i am addicted to photography so badly, i don't care what tool i use, who knows, maybe i will not get Hasselblad at all and get something else.

[Tixeon]

Thanks all.
For now i should think about myself, it is a tool at the end, and i don't care much about the business issue, some people can afford expensive tools even they don't use it professionally and some professionals can't afford it but they have to rent or earn money by their profession to fund their tools, ok, i will start a business sooner or later not in photography, so in this case i am not worry about money, and because i am addicted to photography so badly, i don't care what tool i use, who knows, maybe i will not get Hasselblad at all and get something else.

Hey Tareq;

You only live once & if you don't do it when you have the chance you'll regret it forever. In 1966 I passed up the chance to buy a brand new Corvette. I could afford the payments but not the insurance. Do I regret that decision? You bet I do.

[Tareq]

Hey Tareq;

You only live once & if you don't do it when you have the chance you'll regret it forever. In 1966 I passed up the chance to buy a brand new Corvette. I could afford the payments but not the insurance. Do I regret that decision? You bet I do.

Today i was in the store, got one nice A3 catalog of Hasselblad, talking with the guy but i didn't ask him about the offer, just at the end he told me new cameras will be coming next week, so i will get ready coming weeks and get some cash and then i have to be closer to my dream.

[DrPablo]

You only live once & if you don't do it when you have the chance you'll regret it forever.A camera that is more expensive than it's worth isn't exactly a 1966 corvette. Getting a brand new Leica M-series is the closest analogy, or a Hasselblad V-series SLR, because they are timeless cameras.

Go check a retirement calculator to see how much $10,000 will be worth in 40 years if you just invest it in the S&P 500 or something (especially now with a depressed market). If historical trends continue, it could appreciate to $100,000 by retirement. On the other hand, $10,000 spent on camera equipment will be money that depreciates very rapidly, and if you sell the camera in 3 years you'll probably only get $3,000 for it. So will the advantage of this camera be worth that net expenditure??

[andrew748]

DO IT!

i have no idea which model is best for you but to own and enjoy such a legend......

[Wilt]

A camera that is more expensive than it's worth isn't exactly a 1966 corvette. Getting a brand new Leica M-series is the closest analogy, or a Hasselblad V-series SLR, because they are timeless cameras.

Go check a retirement calculator to see how much $10,000 will be worth in 40 years if you just invest it in the S&P 500 or something (especially now with a depressed market). If historical trends continue, it could appreciate to $100,000 by retirement. On the other hand, $10,000 spent on camera equipment will be money that depreciates very rapidly, and if you sell the camera in 3 years you'll probably only get $3,000 for it. So will the advantage of this camera be worth that net expenditure??

Back around 1964, my dad and I looked at a Shelby Cobra 327 on the used car lot (I was still too young to drive)... at $6000 it was too rich for our blood (when gas was only $0.25 a gallon and houses were $20-25k in California!) Too bad, because that 'extravagance' would now be worth $250k.

[PhotosGuy]

Originally Posted by PhotosGuy View Post
That's my choice, too. You get PC (perspective control) which is a bonus. Wait a few years & the price of the Blad you want will be cut in half when other people upgrade.
I didn't get the point, is that mean i have to get a used one? and why i should always waiting? ofcourse i will look for latest gear anyway, so even those people will upgrade theirs so the old blads will be cheaper i will look at the latest hassy, will that make any difference then. I quoted the point, "only for some work in studio and advertiement in the future"
You'll need a PC lens for Blad if you're doing product shots. A view camera has that capability built in.
I get the feeling that you don't really care to hear that, so have fun with whatever you get.

[Tixeon]

A camera that is more expensive than it's worth isn't exactly a 1966 corvette. Getting a brand new Leica M-series is the closest analogy, or a Hasselblad V-series SLR, because they are timeless cameras.

Go check a retirement calculator to see how much $10,000 will be worth in 40 years if you just invest it in the S&P 500 or something (especially now with a depressed market). If historical trends continue, it could appreciate to $100,000 by retirement. On the other hand, $10,000 spent on camera equipment will be money that depreciates very rapidly, and if you sell the camera in 3 years you'll probably only get $3,000 for it. So will the advantage of this camera be worth that net expenditure??

In this instance it doesn't matter what the item is or what it will be worth in 3 yrs or 40 yrs. we're talking about instant gratification. When I was drooling over a '66 Vette I wasn't thinking about it's value in 40 yrs - just how cool it'd be to own & drive one. Same for anything else including cameras.

[DrPablo]

All right -- is instant gratification worth $10,000? I hate to be a downer when he's enthusiastic, but he has never presented a case that justifies why he needs this camera, and it's an awfully expensive impulse to follow. And write it down that the H3D is NOT a timeless camera the way a Leica M7 is, or the way a Deardorff 8x10 is. In 3 years the entire world will forget about the H3D. Everyone will think about Hasselblad glass, as they have for generations, but the digital bodies are just a blink in the night.

Read this again:
i didn't start any business in photography as many there out using Medium formats and many agencies or companies here wants those over DSLRs owners, it is really ridiculous so fine, i will get a MF and see what they will say then.
What they'll say if he gets a digital MF will be absolutely nothing if his shots aren't any good. I can give you the world's best golf clubs and you're not going to be Tiger Woods either.

[airfrogusmc]

Speak'n of great glass. One of my favorite Hassy Zeiss lenses and for a real good price. Man to bad I'm tapped out right now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hasselblad-180mm-4-0-Sonnar-CF-Lens-180-4_W0QQitemZ310101506561QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_L enses?hash=item310101506561&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A2%7C 240%3A1318

[cdifoto]

Maybe I'm late, but why don't you just rent one?

[Tixeon]

All right -- is instant gratification worth $10,000? I hate to be a downer when he's enthusiastic, but he has never presented a case that justifies why he needs this camera, and it's an awfully expensive impulse to follow. And write it down that the H3D is NOT a timeless camera the way a Leica M7 is, or the way a Deardorff 8x10 is. In 3 years the entire world will forget about the H3D. Everyone will think about Hasselblad glass, as they have for generations, but the digital bodies are just a blink in the night.

I don't think that he (Tareq) has a real need for this purchase. It's more of a want & he apparently has the money available. Remember, It's his money & if spending this much on a camera causes no financial (or otherwise) hardship then it's his decision to indulge.

Two years ago I retired & bought a 5D as a retirement gift to myself. Did I need it? No, I was done with full time photography, I wanted it and I have enjoyed it tremendously.

[danpass]

Don't worry about the haters who practically demand that you send all your money to the government so they can send it to starving people in a remote village and that you hate yourself for being successful .

Let's see some pics :D

[DrPablo]

I don't think that he (Tareq) has a real need for this purchase. It's more of a want & he apparently has the money available. Remember, It's his money & if spending this much on a camera causes no financial (or otherwise) hardship then it's his decision to indulge.

Two years ago I retired & bought a 5D as a retirement gift to myself. Did I need it? No, I was done with full time photography, I wanted it and I have enjoyed it tremendously.Understood, but his posts make me think that he is a young person trying to start out a career -- not someone retired who of necessity has a good handle on his assets.

[Tareq]

It is mostly a fun for my to photography for now, and i will use any gear for that and really i don't feel regret to use any tool, until now i never have any issue with all my gear because i always choose what i really want even i don't use it that much, but believe it or not, there are always situations where i need one camera or another lens, so i try to have complete set of gear so then i never feel i am missing something, and the only missing in my gear collection is a medium format, for any reason as some said i don't need it, but really i am thinking seriously to start a career in photography sooner or later, so i want to be ready for that, can't imagine if they ask me if i can use a film or medium format then i answer no, not yet, so i should be ready now with a medium format or even film then i can be proud that i can use some systems, until that time i just want to enjoy and have fun, i don't want to say but i also feel jealous when others using expensive gear whether it is for fun or mostly for business and doesn't matter if they rented or own.

I am worry this thread going nowhere, so just i didn't have many options and confusing myself much, in MF world i just focus on Hasselblad, and even i focus in H3D series, if i keep my options open then i will have maybe 10 choices, and sure out of those ten people here will recommend me 4-6 highly then i will not buy anything.
For what i see, H3D still an amazing camera in MF world, even there are many MFs and many tested them all but still there are many drooling for H3D anyway, and in many cases when the prices is so universe size then they try to ignore it and look at another cheaper options.

[DrPablo]

For what i see, H3D still an amazing camera in MF world, even there are many MFs.I don't know, it's not even MF by MF standards. Its sensor is 36x48mm, which is just two 35mm frames stitched together, and the smallest recognized film MF frame is 50% larger (60x45).

[sapearl]

Tareq, does your current career lend itself to a move to photography? What I mean, is it something that would be a natural bridge to a job in photography?

One possible danger I see here is that you are so focused on a wide range of gear - it seems like GEAR is more important to you than anything else - that you may be missing opportunities for your technique to grow and mature.

Your work is good.... I've perused your galleries.... but I've seen people become so obsessed with collecting everything just for the sake of more "stuff", their work does not move forward.

.....but really i am thinking seriously to start a career in photography sooner or later, so i want to be ready for that, can't imagine if they ask me if i can use a film or medium format then i answer no, not yet, so i should be ready now with a medium format or even film then i can be proud that i can use some systems, ..........., and even i focus in H3D series, if i keep my options open then i will have maybe 10 choices, and sure out of those ten people here will recommend me 4-6 highly then i will not buy anything........

[sapearl]

Perhaps this is true in the studio and advertising world - most of those are leases since I don't think you'll see too many POTN folks being able to afford them - so these are just not as practical for everyday use.

But I will echo those others - you want it, you have the money so just go ahead and get it.

......For what i see, H3D still an amazing camera in MF world, even there are many MFs and many tested them all but still there are many drooling for H3D anyway, and in many cases when the prices is so universe size then they try to ignore it and look at another cheaper options.

[Mark]

Why not just go for broke and get the phase one P65+ :D

[DrPablo]

Tareq,

What are you planning on doing for lenses for the H3D?

[Tareq]

hmmmmmmmmmm, ok, i am very sorry to start this thread,i was asking simple question but it led us to go further more.
To be honest, i hate my current job [civil engineer] very much, and i try to find another job but seems it is difficult in my country for some reasons, and after i enter photography world i loved it and after 3 years [still new and refresh] i feel i should have a career in what i really love and interested in, so that i will never stop to pay and spend all what i have for what i love.

If you people really care and worry that i shouldn't waste and spend that much and get more then i don't know what to say, i wish most of you come and live same my situations and then will see how they can get into photography? by the way, i am not the only person, i know some friends who are members of our photography club doing the same, and their works are good enough an they don't need more, but what you all here don't know is that we are in UAE as original citizen of UAE [and some other closer nationalities] have very bad habit which is we like always to show that we have the best, so if someone buy 1 camera i buy 2, if i buy $5000 lens the other but $50k lens and so.

Anyway, i just was so happy to buy any medium format, and my heart was going to H3D, but seems i shouldn't talk about what i buy at all even if i will buy a palace and a plane.

Now i hope a mod close this thread as i don't want many recommendation about another cameras or to stop planning to get one, i asked if i should get 31 or 39 or even to go for 50mp directly, but even this question is not supposed to be here, all will give their own thinking whether it is wisely or something else, and i already wasted too much money on gear that many think that i don't use it at all if need it so it will be the same if i buy a MF that costs 3x of one top DSLR body, i appreciate all the replies here, now i should ask or wait for the answer, i will follow what is there and even i am not looking to post anything about H3D if i will get one because this is mostly Canon forum [even any posts of different brand can be posted here] so i should post in Hasselblad forum, i signed in Nikon Forum as many here but i never post one shot there, so please let's stop now and shouldn't talk what is photography will do for me or what i can do to photography, you all know it is just a fun and a hobby for me and shouldn't advise me to stop now as it is late.

[Wilt]

Tareq,
Since your culture has ingrained the need to " keep up with the al-Joneses " ;), if you have the money, do it.
The point I was making about the expense was merely that medium format digital is a very large expense which depreciates in commercial value and in technical value very rapidly. So if you accept the fact that digital bodies have a two year halflife ($8k body is worth $4k on the used market after 2 years), then depreciating and eating that 'loss' for a medium format digital is throwing an even larger purse away in the same period of time. For that reason, digital back makers like Aptus and Leaf have offered business leases, so that at the end of the period, they take back the old stuff and provide you with the newest stuff to use instead, rather than you being stuck with an 'old technology' product that you cannot sell (due to limited market interest).
Using a high expense digital body can easily be a saving to the professional, when the business volume is sufficient. Many years ago, I calculated that a wedding pro would spend as much for film based wedding jobs (film, processing) as a 1D body costs, if he/she simply shot one wedding each weekend for the year...and that calculation was using the more conservative shooting that film photographers were accustomed to! For the pro who needs a digital file for a client, one can simply shoot on film, use an inexpensive scanner to provide previews, and then pay for a very expensive drum scan to create the final files for the customer. A digital back is not the only solution, and would be much less expensive to use the film+scanner approach. But if your culture has ingrained the need to 'keep up with the al-Joneses', if such a money saving method might not keep you sufficient high in stature within your community, then you need to take the more expensive approach. It just seems a shame to throw money away, even when you have it to squander without thought!

[Tareq]

Tareq,
Since your culture has ingrained the need to " keep up with the al-Joneses " ;), if you have the money, do it.
The point I was making about the expense was merely that medium format digital is a very large expense which depreciates in commercial value and in technical value very rapidly. So if you accept the fact that digital bodies have a two year halflife ($8k body is worth $4k on the used market after 2 years), then depreciating and eating that 'loss' for a medium format digital is throwing an even larger purse away in the same period of time. For that reason, digital back makers like Aptus and Leaf have offered business leases, so that at the end of the period, they take back the old stuff and provide you with the newest stuff to use instead, rather than you being stuck with an 'old technology' product that you cannot sell (due to limited market interest).
Using a high expense digital body can easily be a saving to the professional, when the business volume is sufficient. Many years ago, I calculated that a wedding pro would spend as much for film based wedding jobs (film, processing) as a 1D body costs, if he/she simply shot one wedding each weekend for the year...and that calculation was using the more conservative shooting that film photographers were accustomed to! For the pro who needs a digital file for a client, one can simply shoot on film, use an inexpensive scanner to provide previews, and then pay for a very expensive drum scan to create the final files for the customer. A digital back is not the only solution, and would be much less expensive to use the film+scanner approach. But if your culture has ingrained the need to 'keep up with the al-Joneses', if such a money saving method might not keep you sufficient high in stature within your community, then you need to take the more expensive approach. It just seems a shame to throw money away, even when you have it to squander without thought!

And why i keep 1Ds markII and 1D MarkIIN and 5D? because i know i will sell them with half price or maybe less, so that i never sell any of my gear, and i never buy a product to sell it later, still i have a car since 2003 and many many of my friends who hs same car sold it and replace it with 2005 then 2006 and now 2008.

I understand your point, but what that will do to my decisions anyway, and i talked with that guy when i was there in the store and he told me many pros coming to his shop to get that hasselblad and they never think about film, and they are pros [unless you don't accept or consider them as pros at all], even he told me now that the market here in UAE are not going with films, so that i didn't want to have a mistake to buy cheap MF film camera and a scanner and i know that flm market here is low or almost disappeared, it will take longer for me to process film and then scan it, and also to buy another MF with different digital back, from what i see that digital back itself is very expnesive, maybe i will pay more on that than to get a H3D, that salesman is a nice huy with me and he gave me good offer if i want to go with it, even he told me he will give me the body with the lens free, doesn't matter for me how quality is that lens but it is not cheap lens at all as well, so why i have to miss the opportunity? believe me if the offer and the price is not good then i will never think about it, but maybe it is my luck now to have something like that offer, What do you think of these prices?

Hasselblad H3D 31mp II + 80mm lens = about $16500 [60,000AED]
Hasselblad H3D 31mp II + 80mm lens = about $22000 [80,000AED]

All New completely from the factory and no shipping or taxes.

[Tareq]

Forgot to say that i can pay half or 1/3 now and then monthly payment.

[Wilt]

Tareq,
We are worlds apart. Here, many pros will not use medium format digital because their clients are not so demanding as to force its use, and the expense and rapid depreciation makes it a less than optimal business 'investment'...therefore the business lease. You see many 'FF digital is as good as medium format' comparisons, so the buying public just does not go looking for medium format digital photographers! It seems in your area, it is a necessity, to undertake that level of expense in order to be competitive, on the other hand. Worlds apart.

I can buy a 31MP Hassy H3D with 80mm lens, any day of the week, for $17,900. Direct comparison of prices is rather meaningless, as I have no idea what 'full price' is in your country. Tariffs and taxes often make direct comparisons between countries illogical.

[Tareq]

Tareq,
We are worlds apart. Here, many pros will not use medium format digital because their clients are not so demanding as to force its use, and the expense and rapid depreciation makes it a less than optimal business 'investment'...therefore the business lease. You see many 'FF digital is as good as medium format' comparisons, so the buying public just does not go looking for medium format digital photographers! It seems in your area, it is a necessity, to undertake that level of expense in order to be competitive, on the other hand. Worlds apart.

I can buy a 31MP Hassy H3D with 80mm lens, any day of the week, for $17,900. Direct comparison of prices is rather meaningless, as I have no idea what 'full price' is in your country. Tariffs and taxes often make direct comparisons between countries illogical.

Even i don't know about the tariffes and taxes here, they said that we don't have taxes at all, but there are many products so expensive maybe same as in Europe or UK where they have taxes so badly so how come we don't have any taxes [liars], some products are cheaper other way.
I will buy medium format for myself first of all, then later i will think if our business here really care that i have Medium or DSLR or even large, the problem this salesman i talked with him many times about how good cameras are now and it is important with the skills and talents, he said i agree, but really no camera can be closer to medium or large format even the best DSLRs, and from his position and the place [Dubai, the capital of business in UAE] he saw many pros coming to buy or rent MF [he sells only Hasselblad] even they have top DSLRs, the only way is that i will ask him to do a meeting with them so i can come and ask them why you choose MFs if you already have 1Ds2/3 and D3 and 5DII, so with their answers i can see what keep them in Medium formats range mostly than DSLRs, and if the reason is because the resolution and large printing then this reason is enough for me as well, but really here is different than USA or Canada or Europe, maybe to you film and MF are not necesary but here we can get more income and clients with MFs than DSLRs, not saying that DSLRs are useless but we use those DSLRs for sports and landscapes and photojounalism mostly and keep MF or LF for dedicated studio and advertisement work.

[Wilt]

Tareq,
I shot medium format film for a very long time, so I well understand the merits of a larger format (look at my equipment list!). With digital the premium paid for going from APS-C to FF is high, and the premium for going from FF to 645 format is also high...US$1200 vs. US$3000 vs. US$8000 (Mamiya), and the added cost of the leap to Hasselblad is incredible even for a relatively 'old technology' 31MP (US$17.9k) and if you want current state-of-art it is outright unthinkable for most...H3DII at $28k...one could buy a lot of lighting and multiple formats for the price of one camera+lens+digital back! Interesting the price differential rendered digital medium and large format not a realistic purchase except for certain specialized uses, compared to how widely medium format film equipment and large format film equipment had become so necessary for film recording. At least finally Mamiya moved it from a 5-digit US Dollar cost to a 4-digit cost! The fact that FF digital is so high in quality that it made larger format digital less essential was also key in this slow acceptance of anything larger.

I wish the USA produced enough oil so that its citizens could be free of income tax, too! It will be interesting to see what happens as Dubai oil becomes scarcer.

[sapearl]

Tareq, how large do you want to make your prints?

Other than that I see a couple of really big problems here. And I come to this conclusion after reading your recent posts. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE at all what gear you end up getting. You will never be satisfied with what you get. That has become painfully obvious. There will always be "something better out there...."

In your country apparently it's all about who has the biggest camera or the longest lens. It seems to be a gear competition as opposed to a skill competition.

Also, most of us cannot relate to your economics. As Wilt so aptly states, we are worlds apart. It makes no difference how much $$$ you throw at gear, and that's ok; it's just that many of us outside of the UAE are stuggling with what we have just to stay afloat. An most of us turn out some damn good images with far less expensive gear.

But I say go ahead and spend the money - you won't be happy or unhappy, just locked into the never ending chase to impress other photographers and get the latest gear. When you get older and perhaps face more responsibility, maybe you will see truly unimportant many of these things really are.

[Tareq]

Tareq,
I shot medium format film for a very long time, so I well understand the merits of a larger format (look at my equipment list!). With digital the premium paid for going from APS-C to FF is high, and the premium for going from FF to 645 format is also high...US$1200 vs. US$3000 vs. US$8000 (Mamiya), and the added cost of the leap to Hasselblad is incredible even for a relatively 'old technology' 31MP (US$17.9k) and if you want current state-of-art it is outright unthinkable for most...H3DII at $28k...one could buy a lot of lighting and multiple formats for the price of one camera+lens+digital back! Interesting the price differential rendered digital medium and large format not a realistic purchase except for certain specialized uses, compared to how widely medium format film equipment and large format film equipment had become so necessary for film recording. At least finally Mamiya moved it from a 5-digit US Dollar cost to a 4-digit cost! The fact that FF digital is so high in quality that it made larger format digital less essential was also key in this slow acceptance of anything larger.

I wish the USA produced enough oil so that its citizens could be free of income tax, too! It will be interesting to see what happens as Dubai oil becomes scarcer.

Say UAE not Dubai, as Dubai don't have oil so they depends on tourism and financial issues, Abu Dhabi is the Capital of UAE and has oil enough to cover all UAE.
Back to cameras issues, anyway, i have DSLR and they are really amazing, i just want to use Medium format, and to get that Mamyia one which is about equal price of 1Ds bodies then i shouldn't think about getting MFs then, do you know any medium format that shoot digital and in about 32+ resolution?

[Tareq]

Tareq, how large do you want to make your prints?

Other than that I see a couple of really big problems here. And I come to this conclusion after reading your recent posts. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE at all what gear you end up getting. You will never be satisfied with what you get. That has become painfully obvious. There will always be "something better out there...."

In your country apparently it's all about who has the biggest camera or the longest lens. It seems to be a gear competition as opposed to a skill competition.

Also, most of us cannot relate to your economics. As Wilt so aptly states, we are worlds apart. It makes no difference how much $$$ you throw at gear, and that's ok; it's just that many of us outside of the UAE are stuggling with what we have just to stay afloat. An most of us turn out some damn good images with far less expensive gear.

But I say go ahead and spend the money - you won't be happy or unhappy, just locked into the never ending chase to impress other photographers and get the latest gear. When you get older and perhaps face more responsibility, maybe you will see truly unimportant many of these things really are.

Understood and got the point, thanks! :)

[Tareq]

Tareq, how large do you want to make your prints?

Other than that I see a couple of really big problems here. And I come to this conclusion after reading your recent posts. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE at all what gear you end up getting. You will never be satisfied with what you get. That has become painfully obvious. There will always be "something better out there...."

In your country apparently it's all about who has the biggest camera or the longest lens. It seems to be a gear competition as opposed to a skill competition.

Also, most of us cannot relate to your economics. As Wilt so aptly states, we are worlds apart. It makes no difference how much $$$ you throw at gear, and that's ok; it's just that many of us outside of the UAE are stuggling with what we have just to stay afloat. An most of us turn out some damn good images with far less expensive gear.

But I say go ahead and spend the money - you won't be happy or unhappy, just locked into the never ending chase to impress other photographers and get the latest gear. When you get older and perhaps face more responsibility, maybe you will see truly unimportant many of these things really are.

Say 1 meter minimum up to 3 or 4, here my room office there is a space in wall with dimension about 2.5m x 3.70m, so i am really thinking to do many prints in size width of 1-2m.

[Croasdail]

Just go get your self a 500c and both a digital and film back for it. You will have the best of both worlds, and you can upgrade the data back as things progress keeping your happy little camera body for the entire ride. I wouldn't go with the new stuff as it is changing ever so fast.. This week, 50 mpx, next year 100. Just upgrade the data backs and your good to go. But like mentions, make sure you have a good computer attached to it.

[sapearl]

Tareq, other than a few experts here - and I'm not one of them - your Hassy questions would likely be better served in the HB forum where there's a more extensive knowledge base. Most of us here just don't have the experience with that type of really high end gear.

[Tareq]

Just go get your self a 500c and both a digital and film back for it. You will have the best of both worlds, and you can upgrade the data back as things progress keeping your happy little camera body for the entire ride. I wouldn't go with the new stuff as it is changing ever so fast.. This week, 50 mpx, next year 100. Just upgrade the data backs and your good to go. But like mentions, make sure you have a good computer attached to it.

How much is that 500c hassy? with the film and digital backs for it?

[Tareq]

Tareq, other than a few experts here - and I'm not one of them - your Hassy questions would likely be better served in the HB forum where there's a more extensive knowledge base. Most of us here just don't have the experience with that type of really high end gear.

Yes, i found that,..... LATE.
Anyway, thanks for the help and i appreciate that :)

[Perry Ge]

Supposing I had all the money in the world, I still wouldn't get a Hasselblad digital MF body. Why?

a) They are slow as hell. As permie mentioned, 1.2 seconds between shots = a MASSIVE pain in the ass to shoot with. I can't wait 1.2 seconds for my strobes to refresh in the studio, let alone for my camera to get ready!

b) The new H3D 'blads don't take third party backs. Tsk tsk.

c) Digital medium format just ISN'T ready yet. You'll buy the blad, and then in a few years time, digital MF will either die out or really mature, and you'll be left with an obsolete, super expensive, product, or an obsolute, immature product, while everyone else will have cheaper, better bodies.

Digital MF just isn't the same as film MF. It's still in its infancy, and I frankly think it's a stupid investment. They aren't even as sexy as ferraris, they're just cumbersome. Want to shoot MF? Shoot film.

I know part of the reason why the blad is appealing is because of the bling factor, and the 'oh look I have the best thing out there' appeal, but for what it's worth, the blads, in my eye, are nowhere near the best thing out there.

The thing is, not only is it a bad investment, as others have been saying.....the bodies aren't even that cool. I look at the H3D series and all I see are deficiencies, I don't see a great camera...like Doc pablo said, the hassies are known for their glass, not their MF digital bodies. The H3D series ain't no Leica M series.

[sapearl]

Where I live, many would still consider your 2003 auto quite current, and a 2006 downright new. You have good economic times there Tareq - enjoy them while they last.

.... still i have a car since 2003 and many many of my friends who hs same car sold it and replace it with 2005 then 2006 and now 2008.......

[jothefish]

Tareq,
I have the H2 with the P45+ Phase One back. Has it made me a better photographer? No. Do I have fun with it? Absolutely... I have taken it with me around the world, but I still fall back on my Canons, ease of use being the main reason. The H2 is a great camera, the Phase One backs give you more megapixels than we really ever need... but if you can afford it - go for it - life is short... enjoy the kick it gives you.... but do it because YOU want it - not to prove anything to anyone else. They won't like you more just because you have a bigger camera... and if they do... they shouldn't be the peopleyou want to hang around with. What WILL get you respect and attention, is donating the cameras you don't use - to kids who want to learn about photography, but cannot afford to... and yes you do have them in the UAE :)
Best of luck to you... MF is a wonderful format to work in... you see the world a different way than through 35mm
And don't be so touchy about the UAE

[Mark]

hmmmmmmmmmm, ok, i am very sorry to start this thread,i was asking simple question but it led us to go further more.
To be honest, i hate my current job [civil engineer] very much, and i try to find another job but seems it is difficult in my country for some reasons, and after i enter photography world i loved it and after 3 years [still new and refresh] i feel i should have a career in what i really love and interested in, so that i will never stop to pay and spend all what i have for what i love.

If you people really care and worry that i shouldn't waste and spend that much and get more then i don't know what to say, i wish most of you come and live same my situations and then will see how they can get into photography? by the way, i am not the only person, i know some friends who are members of our photography club doing the same, and their works are good enough an they don't need more, but what you all here don't know is that we are in UAE as original citizen of UAE [and some other closer nationalities] have very bad habit which is we like always to show that we have the best, so if someone buy 1 camera i buy 2, if i buy $5000 lens the other but $50k lens and so.

Anyway, i just was so happy to buy any medium format, and my heart was going to H3D, but seems i shouldn't talk about what i buy at all even if i will buy a palace and a plane.

Now i hope a mod close this thread as i don't want many recommendation about another cameras or to stop planning to get one, i asked if i should get 31 or 39 or even to go for 50mp directly, but even this question is not supposed to be here, all will give their own thinking whether it is wisely or something else, and i already wasted too much money on gear that many think that i don't use it at all if need it so it will be the same if i buy a MF that costs 3x of one top DSLR body, i appreciate all the replies here, now i should ask or wait for the answer, i will follow what is there and even i am not looking to post anything about H3D if i will get one because this is mostly Canon forum [even any posts of different brand can be posted here] so i should post in Hasselblad forum, i signed in Nikon Forum as many here but i never post one shot there, so please let's stop now and shouldn't talk what is photography will do for me or what i can do to photography, you all know it is just a fun and a hobby for me and shouldn't advise me to stop now as it is late.

Well, in that case, if you have the money go straight to the 50mp, you will eventually.....
It's not what I would do with the money, but if you want it, do it!

[Tareq]

Supposing I had all the money in the world, I still wouldn't get a Hasselblad digital MF body. Why?

a) They are slow as hell. As permie mentioned, 1.2 seconds between shots = a MASSIVE pain in the ass to shoot with. I can't wait 1.2 seconds for my strobes to refresh in the studio, let alone for my camera to get ready!

b) The new H3D 'blads don't take third party backs. Tsk tsk.

c) Digital medium format just ISN'T ready yet. You'll buy the blad, and then in a few years time, digital MF will either die out or really mature, and you'll be left with an obsolete, super expensive, product, or an obsolute, immature product, while everyone else will have cheaper, better bodies.

Digital MF just isn't the same as film MF. It's still in its infancy, and I frankly think it's a stupid investment. They aren't even as sexy as ferraris, they're just cumbersome. Want to shoot MF? Shoot film.

I know part of the reason why the blad is appealing is because of the bling factor, and the 'oh look I have the best thing out there' appeal, but for what it's worth, the blads, in my eye, are nowhere near the best thing out there.

The thing is, not only is it a bad investment, as others have been saying.....the bodies aren't even that cool. I look at the H3D series and all I see are deficiencies, I don't see a great camera...like Doc pablo said, the hassies are known for their glass, not their MF digital bodies. The H3D series ain't no Leica M series.

Yes Yes, when you will be pro and working with different MFs then you will accept hat 1 or 2seconds, if you did and didn't like it then others are different, i never shoot in studio with my 1DIII or 5D using 5 or 10fps.

Thanks!

Where I live, many would still consider your 2003 auto quite current, and a 2006 downright new. You have good economic times there Tareq - enjoy them while they last.

Yes ofcourse, i will keep my car because i don't see that new will give me more than the old one, specially if i don't drive and go out that much.

Tareq,
I have the H2 with the P45+ Phase One back. Has it made me a better photographer? No. Do I have fun with it? Absolutely... I have taken it with me around the world, but I still fall back on my Canons, ease of use being the main reason. The H2 is a great camera, the Phase One backs give you more megapixels than we really ever need... but if you can afford it - go for it - life is short... enjoy the kick it gives you.... but do it because YOU want it - not to prove anything to anyone else. They won't like you more just because you have a bigger camera... and if they do... they shouldn't be the peopleyou want to hang around with. What WILL get you respect and attention, is donating the cameras you don't use - to kids who want to learn about photography, but cannot afford to... and yes you do have them in the UAE :)
Best of luck to you... MF is a wonderful format to work in... you see the world a different way than through 35mm
And don't be so touchy about the UAE

TBH, i was looking into H2 with a digital back, i even ask him if he has H3D but without a digital back so i don't pay that much because of the DB, and later if i want to get real H3D then i buy a digital back like 39mp or 50mp to use it, seems he didn't find that or there is not, but i looked into the prices, it is almost the same if i got H2 then Phase one digital back as H3D, and i forgot to tell you that if for example i got H3D 39mp, the salesman told me if i ant to upgrade to H3D 50mp then simply i have to return 39mp and replace it with new H3D 50mp and i just pay the difference in the price, so if 50mp cost about $30k and 39mp is $20k, then i just pay $10k, it is almost same price if i replace my P45+ to P65+ or P25+ to P45+, or am i wrong?

Well, in that case, if you have the money go straight to the 50mp, you will eventually.....
It's not what I would do with the money, but if you want it, do it!

Don't worry, i don't have that much money believe me, if i have that much money then i will buy 2 Medium formats, one is film and one digital, but let's wait and see, still i am searching and i am talking with the salesman and i will see if i will end up with one or nothing, and i am not ignoring that Film MF anyway, so still i have tme.

[Tareq]

I checked the prices of Phase P-series digital backs, the prices are much more than H3D itself, and we don't have any local store to buy Phase digital backs from, so in this case i have to get $20k or more to buy a digital back including of some $6-7 for Hassy body, WOW, no thanks, i prefer to get this H3D with better payment offer, if you can find any offer where i can buy Phase or film back with a hasselblad body with less than $12000 then i pay later monthly then i will go for it, you people still forgot about the offer that salesman giving to me i don't have full cash now to buy full Digital Medium format, and i told you about the film future in UAE, so i don't know what are you people really telling me, seems you telling me all that explanations and recommendations to make me to forget about any Medium formats completely, so no film future here in UAE and no MF digital recommendations from you, then what?

[Wilt]

I checked the prices of Phase P-series digital backs, the prices are much more than H3D itself, and we don't have any local store to buy Phase digital backs from, so in this case i have to get $20k or more to buy a digital back including of some $6-7 for Hassy body, WOW, no thanks, i prefer to get this H3D with better payment offer, if you can find any offer where i can buy Phase or film back with a hasselblad body with less than $12000 then i pay later monthly then i will go for it, you people still forgot about the offer that salesman giving to me i don't have full cash now to buy full Digital Medium format, and i told you about the film future in UAE, so i don't know what are you people really telling me, seems you telling me all that explanations and recommendations to make me to forget about any Medium formats completely, so no film future here in UAE and no MF digital recommendations from you, then what?

Tareq, you are missing the point. If digital sensors continue to evolve for medium format (and it will!), then getting a BACK and not a full integrated body+back makes more sense, as you 'throw away' less when you adopt newer technology. But as I said, we are worlds apart in our attitudes in spending money on the absolute newest...the attitude toward new cars is an example of that...my BMW is now approaching 8 years, and I have no care about what the 2009 BMW driver sitting at the stop light next to me thinks of it!

[Tareq]

Tareq, you are missing the point. If digital sensors continue to evolve for medium format (and it will!), then getting a BACK and not a full integrated body+back makes more sense, as you 'throw away' less when you adopt newer technology. But as I said, we are worlds apart in our attitudes in spending money on the absolute newest...the attitude toward new cars is an example of that...my BMW is now approaching 8 years, and I have no care about what the 2009 BMW driver sitting at the stop light next to me thinks of it!

So what is the point?

[Wilt]

So what is the point?


What I said..."If digital sensors continue to evolve for medium format (and it will!), then getting a BACK and not a full integrated body+back makes more sense, as you 'throw away' less when you adopt newer technology. "

[Mark]

What I said..."If digital sensors continue to evolve for medium format (and it will!), then getting a BACK and not a full integrated body+back makes more sense, as you 'throw away' less when you adopt newer technology. "

I agree with that, but Tareq will probably end up with the 'best' in the end (h3d)....
Just go for it mate!
It'll drive you mad if you don't:)

[Tareq]

What I said..."If digital sensors continue to evolve for medium format (and it will!), then getting a BACK and not a full integrated body+back makes more sense, as you 'throw away' less when you adopt newer technology. "

What is that meaning? more explain please.

I agree with that, but Tareq will probably end up with the 'best' in the end (h3d)....
Just go for it mate!
It'll drive you mad if you don't:)

We will see ;)

[Wilt]

What is that meaning? more explain please.



We will see ;)

Tareq,
My point was that an integrated digital body (digitial back and body are one piece, like typical dSLR), rather than a typical medium format body with replaceable and separate digital medium format back, involves less to be replaced as technology continues to evolve.
OTOH, you have already pointed out the fact that the integrated Hassy H3D is less expensive than purchase of a digital back alone. So that greatly neutralizes my argument about 'less that is thrown away' to get newer technology!

[Tareq]

Tareq,
My point was that an integrated digital body (digitial back and body are one piece, like typical dSLR), rather than a typical medium format body with replaceable and separate digital medium format back, involves less to be replaced as technology continues to evolve.
OTOH, you have already pointed out the fact that the integrated Hassy H3D is less expensive than purchase of a digital back alone. So that greatly neutralizes my argument about 'less that is thrown away' to get newer technology!

Not sure if that is a problem with that full integrated system, as Hasselblad is also try to be with technology, but if that digital back alone is a better choice then i can't buy any medium format very soon now, i have to wait so long time until i can afford the full cash to buy a Medium format with different Digital back which is itself alone costs the most expensive. I don't know if Hasselblad with H3D system they will not updating with new technology then for sure that H3D system will dissapear after few years later.
Now back to the prices, i didn't ask for the best, because i feel even digital backs are almost the same and can't say one is the top best over the other, and in resolution topic, if 2 medium format systems or say ne integrated and one digital back on a different body with same mp resolution will not show that much difference in IQ, what will that P45+ will be much more differnce and advanced than H3D 39 [both at 39mp]? I was thinking about the prices, as the salesman told me that they are connected with the Euro, so Hasselbald prices went down with that Euro as he said, he even told me that in the past that H3D was so much expensive as those digital backs like Leaf or Phase one, i talked with him and he has the point that digital back are really good enough nowadays, but to pay that much only on digital back is really so ridiculous, and he prefer to take full system than separated parts connected together even good high quality, and for prices he said it will be even less to take that full integrated, he told me that if i got H3D 31 then i can upgrade it to 50 without to pay full cash of 50mp, so it is like i upgarde the Resolution and the salesman will tak care of exchanging the body without i have to pay again full new price, i feel it is almost similar that i have fixed body and i just change the digital back, but the difference here will be that i will pay full cash for new digital back, and to me it will be much more losing and wasting money in this case, but do you look at it different way or are we wrong in this here?

[andrew748]

unsubscribing with this little gem.

No offence Tareq

i had a ducati748, it was superb and did all i wanted it to do, it was also clumsy and slow at some stuff by comparison other models, but i wanted a Ducati748 and it made me grin like a looney every time that i opened the garage.

you are here on this planet but once, get it, if you want it and can afford it.
If it suck's at what you need if for,then sell it.
but give it a fair crack of the whip, do not be swayed buy the PERSONAL opinions of others here.
your photos are pretty darn good.

will this camera make you a better photog?
probably not.
will this camera give you the confidence to be a better photog?
not sure, i don't know you well enough but possibly.
will this camera make you grin like a looney every time that you open the case?
YES!

there are reasons that blokes do stuff
sometimes you have to go with that gut feeling and just do it, don't seek justification for your purchase, as you can see from some of the posts in this thread there are some jealous types, some canon fanboys who will never understand and some film buffs who may have a point.

Go out and be confident in your ability and say " i want that"

do you want it?

will it make you get a big cheesy grin?

do you think you will every regret the cost?

work out the 3 above questions and then post your hassy pics

have fun mate and don't stress over it too much

[Tareq]

unsubscribing with this little gem.

No offence Tareq

i had a ducati748, it was superb and did all i wanted it to do, it was also clumsy and slow at some stuff by comparison other models, but i wanted a Ducati748 and it made me grin like a looney every time that i opened the garage.

you are here on this planet but once, get it, if you want it and can afford it.
If it suck's at what you need if for,then sell it.
but give it a fair crack of the whip, do not be swayed buy the PERSONAL opinions of others here.
your photos are pretty darn good.

will this camera make you a better photog?
probably not.
will this camera give you the confidence to be a better photog?
not sure, i don't know you well enough but possibly.
will this camera make you grin like a looney every time that you open the case?
YES!

there are reasons that blokes do stuff
sometimes you have to go with that gut feeling and just do it, don't seek justification for your purchase, as you can see from some of the posts in this thread there are some jealous types, some canon fanboys who will never understand and some film buffs who may have a point.

Go out and be confident in your ability and say " i want that"

do you want it?

will it make you get a big cheesy grin?

do you think you will every regret the cost?

work out the 3 above questions and then post your hassy pics

have fun mate and don't stress over it too much

Just i want anyone here to show me where i did say i want that hassy or medium format "TO BE BETTER PHOTOGRAPHER", i just said for larger and so large printing thats all.

[andrew748]

Just i want anyone here to show me where i did say i want that hassy or medium format "TO BE BETTER PHOTOGRAPHER", i just said for larger and so large printing thats all.

my error

sorry

[Tixeon]

unsubscribing with this little gem.

No offence Tareq

i had a ducati748, it was superb and did all i wanted it to do, it was also clumsy and slow at some stuff by comparison other models, but i wanted a Ducati748 and it made me grin like a looney every time that i opened the garage.

you are here on this planet but once, get it, if you want it and can afford it.
If it suck's at what you need if for,then sell it.
but give it a fair crack of the whip, do not be swayed buy the PERSONAL opinions of others here.
your photos are pretty darn good.

will this camera make you a better photog?
probably not.
will this camera give you the confidence to be a better photog?
not sure, i don't know you well enough but possibly.
will this camera make you grin like a looney every time that you open the case?
YES!

there are reasons that blokes do stuff
sometimes you have to go with that gut feeling and just do it, don't seek justification for your purchase, as you can see from some of the posts in this thread there are some jealous types, some canon fanboys who will never understand and some film buffs who may have a point.

Go out and be confident in your ability and say " i want that"

do you want it?

will it make you get a big cheesy grin?

do you think you will every regret the cost?

work out the 3 above questions and then post your hassy pics

have fun mate and don't stress over it too much

Very well worded......

[Tareq]

my error

sorry

Its ok, no problem.

Very well worded......

Answered him ;)

[Wilt]

unsubscribing with this little gem.

No offence Tareq

i had a ducati748, it was superb and did all i wanted it to do, it was also clumsy and slow at some stuff by comparison other models, but i wanted a Ducati748 and it made me grin like a looney every time that i opened the garage.

you are here on this planet but once, get it, if you want it and can afford it.
If it suck's at what you need if for,then sell it.
but give it a fair crack of the whip, do not be swayed buy the PERSONAL opinions of others here.
your photos are pretty darn good.

will this camera make you a better photog?
probably not.
will this camera give you the confidence to be a better photog?
not sure, i don't know you well enough but possibly.
will this camera make you grin like a looney every time that you open the case?
YES!

there are reasons that blokes do stuff
sometimes you have to go with that gut feeling and just do it, don't seek justification for your purchase, as you can see from some of the posts in this thread there are some jealous types, some canon fanboys who will never understand and some film buffs who may have a point.

Go out and be confident in your ability and say " i want that"

do you want it?

will it make you get a big cheesy grin?

do you think you will every regret the cost?

work out the 3 above questions and then post your hassy pics

have fun mate and don't stress over it too much

What you say is true. It is simply making an informed decision rather than seeing only one side of the coin, that we are providing couterpoint perspective. We have almost all said, "If you can afford it, do it", after all!

[Tareq]

"IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT, GO FOR IT".

Is this statement means: " We don't care what you will get, do it" or "you don't listen or care about our points, fine, no way you can understand so don't waste your and our time, go for it"? :rolleyes::confused:

[Croasdail]

How much is that 500c hassy? with the film and digital backs for it?

The body would be cheap, relatively speaking... under a grand (USd). Databack would be at whatever price you can bear.... most are now running between 7 and 12 grand. Film back would be really cheap. lens, thats another story. For a really nice one expect to spend between 2 and 3 grand. I am not saying it would be totally cheaper than an older h3, but it would absolutely be more flexible.

Either way, they are great. You'll wonder what all the hype of a 1D was about afterwards.

Hope it works out for you.

[René Damkot]

this statement means: :confused:


I think it means that if you can afford it (not getting in trouble for it), why not get it? It's your money, and it'll probably make you happy ;)

I've processed images of an Aptus P75 (Can be used on a Hasselblad 503). It's a nice set, but it's very different from a 1DsMk2. Better? Yes, at low ISO. Worth it? Depends on you.

I'd say: Rent one first, and see whether you like it (doesn't even need to be digital for that). Working with medium format is different from shooting with a Canon.

[Bumgardnern]

You obviously want the camera just buy it!

You obviously think that the H3DII is the best camera on the market for you so what decision is their to make? You say you want the best so it sounds to me like you go with the 50mp camera. I think you should go over to the store and buy it now. If I was in your shoes you can bet I would have a MF digital camera.


You could also check out the new Leica that is coming out it looks pretty pimp.

[Tareq]

The body would be cheap, relatively speaking... under a grand (USd). Databack would be at whatever price you can bear.... most are now running between 7 and 12 grand. Film back would be really cheap. lens, thats another story. For a really nice one expect to spend between 2 and 3 grand. I am not saying it would be totally cheaper than an older h3, but it would absolutely be more flexible.

Either way, they are great. You'll wonder what all the hype of a 1D was about afterwards.

Hope it works out for you.

OK, i have to look again at the prices, Thanks!

I think it means that if you can afford it (not getting in trouble for it), why not get it? It's your money, and it'll probably make you happy ;)

I've processed images of an Aptus P75 (Can be used on a Hasselblad 503). It's a nice set, but it's very different from a 1DsMk2. Better? Yes, at low ISO. Worth it? Depends on you.

I'd say: Rent one first, and see whether you like it (doesn't even need to be digital for that). Working with medium format is different from shooting with a Canon.

Thank you for your answer, in fact there is no rent here, don't know if i can rent but i asked him and he said he will rent maybe only for a company or agency, not personal and i can't use my government company as i know it will not work with him, so the only way is to own one, and i tested it twice at the store on him with Profoto lights [once with nice Beauty Dish] and really i felt i want to sell all my Canon gear [impossible to do it], so i decided that i will go with H3D no doubt, i looked at many medium formats, there is no dealers for medium formats in UAE rather than 2, say 3, Hassellad [Only H3D], Sinar, and maybe Mamyia [not sure where], i will not buy it online but locally, and only those 3 above, i can't try to search more to find another dealers of another Medium formats but seems we don't sponsor many brands whatever cameras are, and i am talking about prices and offers in a local store, not online because definitely i can't buy online even cheapest H3D.

You obviously want the camera just buy it!

You obviously think that the H3DII is the best camera on the market for you so what decision is their to make? You say you want the best so it sounds to me like you go with the 50mp camera. I think you should go over to the store and buy it now. If I was in your shoes you can bet I would have a MF digital camera.


You could also check out the new Leica that is coming out it looks pretty pimp.

I feel i read a post very similar above, where it is? seems sarcastic to me.

I will look at Leica, many many times i heard about it, sure it is excellent one but how Excellent to other choices in the market.

[jothefish]

Just i want anyone here to show me where i did say i want that hassy or medium format "TO BE BETTER PHOTOGRAPHER", i just said for larger and so large printing thats all.

Man, how big to you really want to print your prints? and how many of them :) You must have some big walls :)

[René Damkot]

in fact there is no rent here

Not even for a film medium format?

[Wilt]

I think it means that if you can afford it (not getting in trouble for it), why not get it? It's your money, and it'll probably make you happy ;)

I've processed images of an Aptus P75 (Can be used on a Hasselblad 503). It's a nice set, but it's very different from a 1DsMk2. Better? Yes, at low ISO. Worth it? Depends on you.

I'd say: Rent one first, and see whether you like it (doesn't even need to be digital for that). Working with medium format is different from shooting with a Canon.

Yes!!! "...if you can afford it (not getting in trouble for it), why not get it? It's your money, and it'll probably make you happy "

[airfrogusmc]

Man, how big to you really want to print your prints? and how many of them :) You must have some big walls :)

Even at smaller sizes you can see a difference.

Its like in the old audio days why have 300 watts rms per channel and .002 distortion? Because its really sounds clean at 50 waits.

[Tareq]

Man, how big to you really want to print your prints? and how many of them :) You must have some big walls :)

How big i can go with medium formats?

Not even for a film medium format?

Not even a film medium format, unless i buy online which is as some said it is cheap, but which one.

Yes!!! "...if you can afford it (not getting in trouble for it), why not get it? It's your money, and it'll probably make you happy "

ok

Even at smaller sizes you can see a difference.

Its like in the old audio days why have 300 watts rms per channel and .002 distortion? Because its really sounds clean at 50 waits.

Thanks for explanation!

[sapearl]

It's been a while so I may be wrong, but I didn't think the 500/C series could mate with a digital back. I thought it had to be something in the 503xx series.

The body would be cheap, relatively speaking... under a grand (USd). Databack would be at whatever price you can bear.... most are now running between 7 and 12 grand. Film back would be really cheap. .....

[Tareq]

It's been a while so I may be wrong, but I didn't think the 500/C series could mate with a digital back. I thought it had to be something in the 503xx series.

If i will use only B&H then i didn't find 500/C new, only saw 503 series.

[sapearl]

Correct - I've got the 503CW which I purchased back in 1998 and I believe there are several decent digital backs out there that will work well with it. But I don't want to invest that kind of money in that direction, while I currently enjoy the flexibility of my Canon dSLR system.

If i will use only B&H then i didn't find 500/C new, only saw 503 series.

[DrPablo]

If i will use only B&H then i didn't find 500/C new, only saw 503 series.Go to www.keh.com. They have tons of used Hasselblad bodies of all sorts, and all of their "bargain" condition equipment is the equivalent of "excellent" by any other used dealer.

If you're thinking about buying a medium format film SLR system to match with a digital back, you might also keep in mind the Rollei system and the Mamiya RB67. Rollei also uses Zeiss lenses (effectively the same as Hasselblad), but also has Schneider lenses which are just as good as Zeiss. Mamiyas are a steal, much better prices for equipment that is comparable to Hasselblad, and their lenses may even be sharper than Zeiss (the Mamiya rangefinder lenses certainly are sharper than anything by Zeiss).

I chose Hasselblad because there are so many choices for it and it's compact and portable -- which the RB67 really isn't.

[Perry Ge]

Correct - I've got the 503CW which I purchased back in 1998 and I believe there are several decent digital backs out there that will work well with it. But I don't want to invest that kind of money in that direction, while I currently enjoy the flexibility of my Canon dSLR system.

Stuart, have I ever told you how jealous I am of you? I would absolutely love a Hassie 503CW. Well priced, it'd let me get rid of all my current film gear, and is there in case digital MF backs ever get affordable.

Man that's a sweet camera...I love waist level finders.

[sapearl]

I understand your feelings Perry ;).

With the waist level finder, that LARGE viewfinder was phenomenal with the brightscreen, even with my f/3.5 lenses. But.... I quickly put the 45 degree angle prism housing on it, which was pretty bright.

With the WL finder, I was literally holding the camera at my waist (go figure :rolleyes:). Problem is, when you are somewhat close to the person, they look "down" at the lens, which causes them to create a double chin on their neck. Very unflattering. It also "lowered" the flash which could cause some hot spots.

The eye level prism put things in place like a convention SLR viewfinder and eliminated the aformentioned problems. But yes, I hang onto the 503CW against the day that digital backs become both affordable and practical in function.

Stuart, have I ever told you how jealous I am of you? I would absolutely love a Hassie 503CW. Well priced, it'd let me get rid of all my current film gear, and is there in case digital MF backs ever get affordable.

Man that's a sweet camera...I love waist level finders.

[Perry Ge]

I understand your feelings Perry ;).

With the waist level finder, that LARGE viewfinder was phenomenal with the brightscreen, even with my f/3.5 lenses. But.... I quickly put the 45 degree angle prism housing on it, which was pretty bright.

With the WL finder, I was literally holding the camera at my waist (go figure :rolleyes:). Problem is, when you are somewhat close to the person, they look "down" at the lens, which causes them to create a double chin on their neck. Very unflattering. It also "lowered" the flash which could cause some hot spots.

The eye level prism put things in place like a convention SLR viewfinder and eliminated the aformentioned problems. But yes, I hang onto the 503CW against the day that digital backs become both affordable and practical in function.

I know what you mean about the double chin effect. The waist level finder certainly isn't for every application. I LOVE the fact that the body doesn't need batteries.

I'd love the hassie to shoot landscapes too, especially with the waist level finder. Medium format film still feels like a magnificent way to shoot them, especially with that sweet german glass.

Hmm....:eek:

[airfrogusmc]

For shooting weddings the eye level finder is almost a must. I wish that I would have kept one of my 500C/Ms and my 180mm and a 50mm FLE lens:(:(

In my opinion the square format is just perfect for portraits.

I think that maybe next yeear I might pick one up or maybe an SWC :)..

[DrPablo]

In my opinion the square format is just perfect for portraits.
I love it for portraits, too, but on the other hand getting custom prints and custom frames of square format is a lot more expensive than a 4:5 enlargement. And I so habitually try to fill my composition with the subject that it becomes very difficult to crop down from the square.

I think that maybe next yeear I might pick one up or maybe an SWC :)..
I was thinking about an SWC as well, but realized that I don't use my 50mm enough to justify having a 38mm. And for the same price (actually LESS money), I bought myself a Noblex 150, which yields a 137 degree field of view on a 6x12 format -- and that camera is the sharpest thing I've ever seen.

[airfrogusmc]

I love it for portraits, too, but on the other hand getting custom prints and custom frames of square format is a lot more expensive than a 4:5 enlargement. And I so habitually try to fill my composition with the subject that it becomes very difficult to crop down from the square.


I was thinking about an SWC as well, but realized that I don't use my 50mm enough to justify having a 38mm. And for the same price (actually LESS money), I bought myself a Noblex 150, which yields a 137 degree field of view on a 6x12 format -- and that camera is the sharpest thing I've ever seen.


When I did weddings I only offered square flush (Leather Craftsman) 8X8 or 10X10 bridal books and 5X5 parent books. You can always go with a traditional frame and a mat with a square or just print an 6X6 on a 8X10 sheet of paper with border. It actually makes for a nice presentation.

[Wilt]

When I did weddings I only offered square flush (Leather Craftsman) 8X8 or 10X10 bridal books and 5X5 parent books. You can always go with a traditional frame and a mat with a square or just print an 6X6 on a 8X10 sheet of paper with border. It actually makes for a nice presentation.


Ah yes, I remember that tactic well..."Sell square so the client has to buy stuff from me, because they can't find them in stores!"

[Croasdail]

Tareq - and V class body will do. Leaf and PhaseOne make amazing databacks that work with them all.

Do a search on Hasselbald V in Yahoo or Google and there are a few sites that explain the differences between them. It is a camera body series built for over 40 years. So do a little homework to know which one is right for you.

[Tareq]

Tareq - and V class body will do. Leaf and PhaseOne make amazing databacks that work with them all.

Do a search on Hasselbald V in Yahoo or Google and there are a few sites that explain the differences between them. It is a camera body series built for over 40 years. So do a little homework to know which one is right for you.

OK, i will do, Thanks!

[kevinf]

Want to make your friends envious? Take all the money you were planning to spend on the Hassy, buy a nice DSLR camera or a film MF, a few lenses, and a case, and take a sabbatical to spend the rest on a trip around the world. Make a photo-journal as you go, show it to your friends when you get back. By the time you are itching to blow a wad of cash again, digital MF may be a reasonable expense.

What good is a 5 figure camera (that isn't for business use) if you don't go further than around the block?

The best money I've ever spent was in traveling. Give it a shot if you haven't already. And it doesn't count if you aren't at least 2000 miles from home ;)

[Tareq]

Want to make your friends envious? Take all the money you were planning to spend on the Hassy, buy a nice DSLR camera or a film MF, a few lenses, and a case, and take a sabbatical to spend the rest on a trip around the world. Make a photo-journal as you go, show it to your friends when you get back. By the time you are itching to blow a wad of cash again, digital MF may be a reasonable expense.

What good is a 5 figure camera (that isn't for business use) if you don't go further than around the block?

The best money I've ever spent was in traveling. Give it a shot if you haven't already. And it doesn't count if you aren't at least 2000 miles from home ;)

1. I have 7 DSLRs
2. I travel only once every year, i can't travel more for some reasons, i just came back from New Zealand about 2 weeks ago and i didn't enjoy much there so i will not show anything.
3. I want to try MF anyway, not just renting, i decided to own one sooner or later for business or fun.
4. Film is almost discontinued in UAE, and it will be funny if i try hard to get my film here which will take days or weeks, and if i will make it digital then i will pay also on expensive scanner maybe, so at the long time i feel i will pay for film more than digital anyway, unless i live in Europe or USA where Film is still occured.
5. Make others envious? huh, in fact i am envious that many friends and members here already used MF [film or digital] now or in the past and they have plenty of lenses and DSLRs, so why they envy me, i should be jealous/envious.

6. THANKS! :D

[airfrogusmc]

Ah yes, I remember that tactic well..."Sell square so the client has to buy stuff from me, because they can't find them in stores!"

I was never K-Mart Wilt and never sold frames. I charged enough to shoot so I didn't have to ;) and most of my clients would get custom framing anyway so it was never an issue for me.

[sapearl]

Hey, I'm envious of that - you have 5 more dSLR's than me, AND a trip to New Zealand. Was it bad weather that you couldn't get anything good? I hear it's an absolutely gorgeous place with just about every ecology and climate zone. I would have gone nuts with my one 5D.

Perhaps you're getting distracted by the gear and fail to see the world around you?

As far as envy, again it's the results that really count Tareq. Sure a number of us have used MF film in the past - and a lot of "us folks" are twice your age ;).... so you still have plenty of time. But I don't believe too many of us have used MF digital because as has been pointed out:

1. It's too expensive for most.
2. It has not really matured in a practical sense
3. It's not necessarily as versatile/portable as the moder dSLR (in general.)

1. I have 7 DSLRs
2. I travel only once every year, i can't travel more for some reasons, i just came back from New Zealand about 2 weeks ago and i didn't enjoy much there so i will not show anything.
5. Make others envious? huh, in fact i am envious that many friends and members here already used MF [film or digital] now or in the past and they have plenty of lenses and DSLRs, so why they envy me, i should be jealous/envious.

6. THANKS! :D

[Wilt]

I hear it's an absolutely gorgeous place with just about every ecology and climate zone. I would have gone nuts with my one 5D.

My wife and I went to New Zealand, and spent our entire time there on South Island. The western coast has a lot of land declared as a World Heritage site, and it is truly spectacular and largely untouched.

[Tareq]

Hey, I'm envious of that - you have 5 more dSLR's than me, AND a trip to New Zealand. Was it bad weather that you couldn't get anything good? I hear it's an absolutely gorgeous place with just about every ecology and climate zone. I would have gone nuts with my one 5D.

Perhaps you're getting distracted by the gear and fail to see the world around you?

As far as envy, again it's the results that really count Tareq. Sure a number of us have used MF film in the past - and a lot of "us folks" are twice your age ;).... so you still have plenty of time. But I don't believe too many of us have used MF digital because as has been pointed out:

1. It's too expensive for most.
2. It has not really matured in a practical sense
3. It's not necessarily as versatile/portable as the moder dSLR (in general.)

Just it is personal reasons about New Zealand that i don't want to talk about it, it is my fault and i didn't arrange it very well, but i hope next time when i travel anywhere then i can arrange it better way, and the weather in New Zealand was really terrific, just i was in the wrong places smetimes and most of the time was at the wrong time.

I feel i will cancel the idea of getting any MF now, i have some bad situations nowadays that may not help me to get something as soon as possible.

[Tareq]

My wife and I went to New Zealand, and spent our entire time there on South Island. The western coast has a lot of land declared as a World Heritage site, and it is truly spectacular and largely untouched.

Show us ;)

[sapearl]

I think that's a wise decision Tareq, IMHO - look at it this way, the longer you wait, the more technology will mature and the more bang you'll get for the buck.

You're young and have plenty of time.... not like some of us old farts ;). And besides, the way the world financial situation is going these days every country will be hit, with repercussions to jobs too; you may want to hang onto to such a huge sum of money. But, that's just super conservative me talking.:rolleyes:

Sorry about the N.Zealand experience - sounds like you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unfortunately that can happen sometimes when travelling.

I recall you said there are no MF digital store rentals where you live, only cameras for sale. Maybe you know a private individual, agency or other company that has one that may rent it to you for a couple of days? At least this could satisfy some of you MF lust :D.

Just it is personal reasons about New Zealand that i don't want to talk about it, it is my fault and i didn't arrange it very well, but i hope next time when i travel anywhere then i can arrange it better way, and the weather in New Zealand was really terrific, just i was in the wrong places smetimes and most of the time was at the wrong time.

I feel i will cancel the idea of getting any MF now, i have some bad situations nowadays that may not help me to get something as soon as possible.

[NZDoug]

Hey Tariq,
a good buddy of mine www.cosmocondina.com shoots with Hass hd-31 and he only carries one lens on travel assignments.
The things weigh so much, its a bit of a drag, or so I hear.
He does a lot of dusk, dawn long exposures and finds that camera can pull off shots well.

[Tareq]

I think that's a wise decision Tareq, IMHO - look at it this way, the longer you wait, the more technology will mature and the more bang you'll get for the buck.

You're young and have plenty of time.... not like some of us old farts ;). And besides, the way the world financial situation is going these days every country will be hit, with repercussions to jobs too; you may want to hang onto to such a huge sum of money. But, that's just super conservative me talking.:rolleyes:

Sorry about the N.Zealand experience - sounds like you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unfortunately that can happen sometimes when travelling.

I recall you said there are no MF digital store rentals where you live, only cameras for sale. Maybe you know a private individual, agency or other company that has one that may rent it to you for a couple of days? At least this could satisfy some of you MF lust :D.

Yes, i am not in rush anyway, i may or may not get one, depends on my situations for at least 2 months, and believe me, i can buy a MF without digital back anytime now if i want, but i don't want to get something that i am not thinking or dreaming about and then i go buy something else, and doesn't matter about the technology, i always think about today, thinking about technology will make me to wait forever anyway.

About the travel, we will see for next time.

Hey Tariq,
a good buddy of mine www.cosmocondina.com (http://www.cosmocondina.com) shoots with Hass hd-31 and he only carries one lens on travel assignments.
The things weigh so much, its a bit of a drag, or so I hear.
He does a lot of dusk, dawn long exposures and finds that camera can pull off shots well.

Aha, good for him, and yes, i was looking to use only one lens, mostly these days i know how i can use few lenses [2-3] for most of my jobs, and i know with Hassy i can use one lens and i can crop as much as i can if so.

[jothefish]

Just it is personal reasons about New Zealand that i don't want to talk about it, it is my fault and i didn't arrange it very well, but i hope next time when i travel anywhere then i can arrange it better way, and the weather in New Zealand was really terrific, just i was in the wrong places smetimes and most of the time was at the wrong time.

I feel i will cancel the idea of getting any MF now, i have some bad situations nowadays that may not help me to get something as soon as possible.


Next time you go to NZ you should get in touch with some of the guys (girls) on this forum who live there - or like me are, from there... they will give you a ton of great information about the country - where to go and what to see. My brother would have a blast showing you around - and he knows some truely stunning places down there.
Give it a second chance - it is one of the most beautiful countries in the world (yes I am biased :)) ( together with Bhutan, by personal favourite...) and it is not just thelandscape - the people are AWESOME

When

[Tareq]

Next time you go to NZ you should get in touch with some of the guys (girls) on this forum who live there - or like me are, from there... they will give you a ton of great information about the country - where to go and what to see. My brother would have a blast showing you around - and he knows some truely stunning places down there.
Give it a second chance - it is one of the most beautiful countries in the world (yes I am biased :)) ( together with Bhutan, by personal favourite...) and it is not just thelandscape - the people are AWESOME

When

Thank you very much, but i have many another countries to visit as well, i may give NZ another chance in the future, but it is always when i try to get in touch with some then no one is available, in fact there is one member here from there [NZ] sent me his number and he never get in touch with me and didn't interest to meet or even to arrange, i just call him always and maybe 2 or 3 times only he answered, i can't trust people when i am just a tourist and coming for few days, and i see that no one will do it free anyway, so i shouldn't waste their time and my time trying to contact them.

[Tareq]

Thank you very much all, finally i got it, H3D

[sapearl]

Major event Tareq, congrats - was that an outright purchase or lease?

Thank you very much all, finally i got it, H3D

[Wilt]

OK, Tareq. Now you have the opportunity of becoming a POTN Measurebator Extraordinaire. Mount the Hassy on a tripod and shoot a photo of something with very fine detail and tonal range. Then do the same with your best Canon dSLR and lens. And post a 500 x500 pixel section of each frame, from the same section of the subject. so we can see the difference in detail resolution and contrast resolution and tonality.

[sapearl]

Since you've invested so much interest and discussion in the topic Tareq, we now have very high expectations for comparison shots - you have achieved your Holy Grail :D.

[Bumgardnern]

Alright. Now we really have to see some pictures from this bad boy. Congrats on the purchase.

[airfrogusmc]

What no duck:confused:?

[Bill Roberts]

Thanks all.
For now i should think about myself, it is a tool at the end, and i don't care much about the business issue, some people can afford expensive tools even they don't use it professionally and some professionals can't afford it but they have to rent or earn money by their profession to fund their tools, ok, i will start a business sooner or later not in photography, so in this case i am not worry about money, and because i am addicted to photography so badly, i don't care what tool i use, who knows, maybe i will not get Hasselblad at all and get something else.


Tareq, If you want a Hasselblad then do get one. I really doubt that you'll regret it.

Years ago I bought a 500CM, kept it for a while, enjoyed it immensley and sold it a few years later at little or no loss (I'm not a pro, this is just a hobby for me). It was a brilliant camera system, the quality was astounding, and the Zeiss lenses (although expensive) were superb.

I eventually moved back to 35mm but never ever regretted buying the Hasselbald, it really was that good. I can't speak about the current models but I've no doubt that they're top class as well.

Life's not about money anyway...

cheers

[Mark]

OK, Tareq. Now you have the opportunity of becoming a POTN Measurebator Extraordinaire. Mount the Hassy on a tripod and shoot a photo of something with very fine detail and tonal range. Then do the same with your best Canon dSLR and lens. And post a 500 x500 pixel section of each frame, from the same section of the subject. so we can see the difference in detail resolution and contrast resolution and tonality.

Congrats tareq!
And please do that!

[Tareq]

OK, Tareq. Now you have the opportunity of becoming a POTN Measurebator Extraordinaire. Mount the Hassy on a tripod and shoot a photo of something with very fine detail and tonal range. Then do the same with your best Canon dSLR and lens. And post a 500 x500 pixel section of each frame, from the same section of the subject. so we can see the difference in detail resolution and contrast resolution and tonality.

But at what settings? which lens of Canon i should i use? i have only Hasy 80/2.8 now so what lens is equivalent for Canon to do that test? in fact i didn't use hasselbalad yet [just got it on Monday 2 days ago and i was busy and tired those 2 days to test, but today i will do].

Since you've invested so much interest and discussion in the topic Tareq, we now have very high expectations for comparison shots - you have achieved your Holy Grail :D.

Thank you very much :D
Yes, i am so happy i've got this camera, it is really my dream camera and i can't be happier than that now, so i will give this bad body more serious tests, and i am just trying to check the business and markets here to se if i can start photography business, but at the moment i have to enjoy it as much as i can, and i will do comparison tests soon.

Alright. Now we really have to see some pictures from this bad boy. Congrats on the purchase.

Thank you very much!
I will do as soon as possible, just be patient and wait the results ;)

What no duck:confused:?

Duck by hasselblad? idiot, this body rejects to shoot ducks :lol:

Tareq, If you want a Hasselblad then do get one. I really doubt that you'll regret it.

Years ago I bought a 500CM, kept it for a while, enjoyed it immensley and sold it a few years later at little or no loss (I'm not a pro, this is just a hobby for me). It was a brilliant camera system, the quality was astounding, and the Zeiss lenses (although expensive) were superb.

I eventually moved back to 35mm but never ever regretted buying the Hasselbald, it really was that good. I can't speak about the current models but I've no doubt that they're top class as well.

Life's not about money anyway...

cheers

Thank you very much!
I was going to get Hassy 503 but i know that film here doesn't have a market anymore, and i am sure 1000% that i will buy a digital back to use with it, so i just saved a lot and went with H3D instead and i am happy.

Congrats tareq!
And please do that!

Thanks!
I will do so soon :)

[Mark]

But at what settings? which lens of Canon i should i use? i have only Hasy 80/2.8 now so what lens is equivalent for Canon to do that test? in fact i didn't use hasselbalad yet [just got it on Monday 2 days ago and i was busy and tired those 2 days to test, but today i will do].


About a 50mm, so slap your 50L on your 1ds3 and your 80 2.8 on your H3D (which one did you get BTW) then put them on your tripod and shoot the same scene at f/8 on both, then lets find out :D

[Tareq]

About a 50mm, so slap your 50L on your 1ds3 and your 80 2.8 on your H3D (which one did you get BTW) then put them on your tripod and shoot the same scene at f/8 on both, then lets find out :D

Too bad, i don't have 50L, i have only 50 1.8 and 50 1.4
I've got H3DII 39mp
and i forgot that i don't have any plate for my hassy yet, so how can i use a tripod for test then.

[Mark]

Too bad, i don't have 50L, i have only 50 1.8 and 50 1.4
I've got H3DII 39mp
and i forgot that i don't have any plate for my hassy yet, so how can i use a tripod for test then.

Oh, use the 50 1.4 then at f8, seems to still be eye cuttingly sharp :p

Nice!

Use just a lens plate, need a tripod for max sharpness at 39mp :D

[NZDoug]

Tariq,
with SINAR P3 U got swings n tilts , why Blad!
Switzerland is neutral.....

[Tareq]

Oh, use the 50 1.4 then at f8, seems to still be eye cuttingly sharp :p

Nice!

Use just a lens plate, need a tripod for max sharpness at 39mp :D

OK then ;)

Tariq,
with SINAR P3 U got swings n tilts , why Blad!
Switzerland is neutral.....

First of all, i like Hasselblad design and its name, and it is also one of more popular medium formats.
Second, i've got the best offer i had for H3D, so why not going for it, couldn't be happy more than that, and who knows, in the future after using H3D i may get another medium format with highest features or performances, for now i shouldn't even touch H3D which is too much for me to be honest.

[NZDoug]

Slow down,
studio should have tilt and shift?
What the didley!!!!