430ex continuos flashing

[Corser1]

Anyway to leave a 430ex flashing continuos for a few seconds? A friend of mine and I need to take a group picture consisting of about 50 people in rows. I'm only using a 430ex onboard. He also has a 430ex and because we don't have the proper lighting setup.... or let alone, enough lights, I was wondering if there's a way he can set his to be flashing continuously for even 2-3 seconds?

[Corser1]

I should have mentioned that his 430ex is also onboard his camera, so we don't have it as a strobe setup off camera.

[Microcosm]

There's a feature called the modeling light which, at least on my 580II, will make it flash for a few seconds. Useful for determining where the shadows will be. anyway, on my xti I hit the depth of field preview button to start it.

[tim]

This is the oddest question i've seen in a while, and demonstrates that you don't really understand flash. I assume what you're trying to do is get more light out of the flash than a single flash can do. Well it's not possible. A 430EX takes maybe 5 seconds to fully recharge, until it does there's no point trying to use it again. Also you want a fast flash to freeze motion - a 3 second exposure will be blurry no matter what you do.

My suggestion is to use the 430EX bounced from the ceiling if you're inside, with a high ISO, and F5.6. If you're outside don't use the flash at all.

If you give us more detail about what you're trying to do, where, and whatever lighting is around we might be able to give you better suggestions.

[Corser1]

microcosm, I'll give that a try tonight.

tim, I'm not trying to get more flash out of my "single" flash. I want to know if there's a way to use my friends 430 as a continuos light source while the shot is taken from my camera using my onboard 430? Just so there is more light overall. I'm not sure if I'm being clear and I apologize.

Basically, the shot will take place at a church. The ceilings are cathedral style(arched) and are about 30 feet high. There will be about 5 rows of people. The ambient lighting isn't that great inside the church so I was just looking for a way to light up the room better.

[tim]

I would suggest that won't help. The amount of light put out by constant light sources is tiny compared with a flash.

The thing about flash when you're photographing rows of people is it lights the front row well, the next row not so well, and the back row not so much. The relative illumination is set by the relative distance between the flash and the first and last rows. Ie if you're one meter from the front row and two meters from the back row the back row will have roughly half 1/2 the mount of light (google the inverse square law, I might not have it quite right). If you're 10 meters from the front row and 11 meters from the back row they'll be lit about the same. The downside is the further back you are the less depth of field you have. It's a bit tough to balance.

The other thing to note is multiple light sources will cast shadows on the people in back rows if the light sources aren't directly above the lens.

I take group shots of 30-300 people at every wedding, but in 4-5 years of wedding photography i've never had to take a big group photo inside a church. Once I had to do it inside, and I used a speedlite bounced off a high white ceiling at ISO1600, and the result was acceptable - just. I *always* take people outside and do the photo there, with the celebrant/minister announcing this at the end of the ceremony. I'm up on my ladder, no flash, using ambient light to avoid the flash issues, maybe a bit of fill.

I would suggest you try to do the photo outside, as it'll work better and save you no end of trouble. If you have to do it inside see if you can be way up in the air, in a choir loft or something, using direct flash, which will be fine as everyone will be approximately equidistant from the light source. If you can't do that then I would suggest ISO1600, F5.6, Av mode, EC+1, and hope for the best. Or rent strobes, but that will bring setup issues, as well as other issue I don't have time to type out right now.

[Microcosm]

In retrospect, tim is correct on this one. I didn't give it much thought past the fact that it is possible to fire the flash for a few seconds.
Still, whatever works for you! Remember experimenting is always fun, but it may not be the best idea at the actual shoot.

[Corser1]

tim, yes unfortunately it has to be indoor as here it is late evening already. But thanks for all the great info. I'll give it a try.

microcosm, indeed trial and error. Just wish I could minimize on the error part more often:o

[tim]

Honestly, this is a pretty hard thing to do. I'd probably use two studio strobes bounced off the ceiling, or at least up very high, shooting down, diffused. Given your equipment i'd be tempted to say use a tripod and no flash, but it depends how dark it is.

[Ry-Cam]

I'm not sure if this will work, but could he perhaps use a 500W halogen (or two) worklight? Position it close to his camera to limit shadows. Just a thought.

[tim]

I'm not sure if this will work, but could he perhaps use a 500W halogen (or two) worklight? Position it close to his camera to limit shadows. Just a thought.

Nope, everyone will be squinting.

[brecklundin]

is there enough in your budget to rent some form of either continuous lighting or strobes? That might be the solution if this is a one time deal. Even if it is not you could still at least get the project done by making less yet doing a better job...

Of course I am assuming the extra lighting would be OK for the venue and not be intrusive for the proceedings.

Anyway, just a budget conscious option vs. using what ya had in mind. Of course you could go and buy half a dozen halogen work lights from Walmart for like $30 a pair (with stands no less, though I think it's one pair of lights on a single stand) and spread them out EVERYWHERE...and blind everyone in the process... ;) I am just trying to understand lighting a bit so really I am not sure if such lighting could even work without a fair amount of pre-even testing...but could that be a budget option?

[brecklundin]

Nope, everyone will be squinting.

d'oh!! never mind about the halogen work lights...I must remember RIF baby, RIF...

[tim]

Sooner or later someone who's done this may post, one of the old time wedding guys. Until then you have my best guess, plus a whole lot of not so good ideas by people who have no experience or knowledge of lighting :p

[RPCrowe]

In order to get a reasonable aperture/shutter speed, you will need to pump in enough light to blind people (at least to make them squint) which makes for lousy facial expressions.

If you try using multiple halogen lights you may end up blowing circuit breakers.

Halogens are also fairly dangerous in crowds because of the burn hazard.

Best way would be to rent two or preferably three studio strobes with stands.

If you cannot get studio strobes at least try to rent or borrow a 550ex or a 550ex and use this as a master with your 430ex and your friend's 430ex set up as slaves.

Never mind getting too cute regarding the light, you probably won't have enough power to bounce or to use a lighting modifier such as a softbox or umbrella. Straight on flash will have to do.

Shoot from up high if you have multiple rows of people so that the flash to subject distance in evened out somewhat even for eash row. It would be great if there were steps available.

Setting up a group for shooting is a technique which will take a while to explain. If you want more info, post that you need the info and I will supply it.

I would shoot from the top of a ladder and have the 550ex or 550ex on my camera. I would have the 430ex units on either side of me on stands as high as my camera. If you don't have light stands, you can make do very well with either 1" dowels or 1x2" wood placed in buckets filled with concrete.

I would set up my flashes so that the 580ex or 550ex was firing at the same power as the 430ex slaves.

Basically, I would want the most even light over the number of rows and from left to right that I could accomplish. This might take some experimentation a couple of friends in advance of the shoot and placing them in various stragic places where members of your group will be standing making sure that the lighting is even. This could take three or four exposures. In fact you might bracket the exposures so that you will know at what f/stop to shoot the group. Try for at least f/11. F/16 would be better because of increased depth of field.

However, a better way would be to borrow or rent two or three studio strobes.

[tim]

Lights to the left and right will cause shadows, having the light(s) directly over the lens is the safest option. Wood instead of light stands sounds like a recipe for trouble. IMHO F11 is more than you'll need, F8 will be fine, and you can probably get away with less if you focus on the 2nd row, F5.6 maybe.

[Mark]

Beg, borrow, rent more strobes.......
Bounce them into the ceiling if it allows, if not you will have to improvise, either get them higher than you or try to work out some crazy way to have them all attached to the camera, it doesn't sound very easy....