Boy, talk about rough night shooting HS Basketball last night ...

[snyderman]

Someone gave me the tip about tracking action and shotting bursts of 3 or more frames at a time. Tell me, how is it possible to get an arm in the face of the player with the ball 4 frames out of 4 frames? Or, the overweight ref 1/4 or the way into 3 out of the 4 shots where the players can be seen? What a nightmare!

Also, a referee was purposely blocking me the entire game. During a timeout in the 3rd Q I asked him if there was a better side for me to stand on. He looked at me like he didn't know what I was talking about. I'd move to the other side--he'd follow me and setup shop there. Yeah right, buddy.

At the beginning of the night I was using a new-to-me 85mm f/1.8 at 2.0 and getting a whopping 1/160 shutter speed. About 30 minutes later I realized the camera's ISO was set on 200!!! DOH!!!

Burst mode also allowed me to get the guy driving to the basket, an OOF 2nd shot of players' midsections and a perfect shot of 2-3 players and no ball.

Just missed EVERYTHING in sight last night. Guess it's like a player shooting 2 of 12 for the game! Sad ... really sad.

It'll get better. Another chance Friday night. Same venue.

dave

[TopGear1Ds]

well look at it on the bright (haha) side.. assuming that iso200 f/2.0 1/160s was the proper exposure, you're in a gym thats one to two stops brigher than most hs gyms. Thats more light than I get in my d3 college gym!

gl with your next shoot. it's bound to be better.

[FlyingPhotog]

Also, a referee was purposely blocking me the entire game. During a timeout in the 3rd Q I asked him if there was a better side for me to stand on. He looked at me like he didn't know what I was talking about. I'd move to the other side--he'd follow me and setup shop there. Yeah right, buddy.

We run into this in the wonderful world of sports TV from time to time...

At the NCAA level, our hand-held camera guys will let refs know in no uncertain terms that they'll never make it to the NBA if they don't learn to stay out of the way of the cameras. :lol:

[40Dude6aedyk]

I've known most of the refs in my area for years. They've given me a technical now and then when I was coaching. Nowadays, they sometimes ask "Did you get that one?" right after they told the scorekeeper who the foul was on. We almost always exchange words before a game and also at the half.

Even some of the players have told me "I'll be sure to smile at you when I'm going in for a layup."

[namasste]

Dave, don't sweat it man, we all have our days. Be polite but also don't be afraid to ask a ref if there's a reason they are being difficult (if you are sure that's the case). I once simply told a ref that I had a job to do as well which seemed to resonate. The rest is just practice. The more frames you shoot, the better you get. I'd highly recommend taking it easy on burst shots while you improve since timing is one of the keys to solid action, not 10fps and hoping one comes out. There's a place for that but it doesn't help the learning curve imo. Good timing means you are "in" the game and seeing and anticipating developing action. Develop that and you'll be a better sports shooter as your exposures improve as well. Good luck and I look forward to getting together.

[wyofizz]

Sounds like an unlucky night. It happens.
Refs in our HS games rotate around the court.
You learn to pick up each refs paths to the baseline also.
If I'm always ending up where he wants to go I ask him
if he has a "sweet spot". They are usually very helpful.
One warned me, pre game, that he goes to the base line "hot" while focused on the action.
Good thing he warned me because he would have knocked me silly had I not
paid attention during his rotation. :-)
Make small talk with them and they'll warm up.
Dave

[DDCSD]

Fun night!

Maybe give the ref an 8x10. That might make your life a little easier. :)

[ej82m]

Fun night!

Maybe give the ref an 8x10. That might make your life a little easier. :)

That's actually a good idea. Give the ref an 8x10 of his overweight butt and maybe he'll stop posting in front of you. :)

Good luck in your next game.

[northpointphoto]

You just described about 75% of my games. Refs are going to be your worst enemy because most of the time they don't care.

My advise to you is stay mobile. If a ref keeps standing in front of you move a bit so they are not right in front of you. If all else fails you can always try to ask nicely for them to not stand in front of you. I find a lot of time they dont really realize they are standing in front of you and they become a little more aware. The other times they give you the f&%$ off look.

As far as the quality of your shots, just keep practicing. Get out there and shoot as often as you can.

[Zivnuska]

When I started sports shooting, I got a tip from a buddy. He said to remember to take pictures of the refs performing their duties. It's part of cultivating a cooperative relationship with them.

It's paid off. No, not every time and not every ref, but since I shoot at MS and HS level, I see the same guys and ladies several times in a year. Last week was an example. At an away game, a ref whose crew I photographed last year stopped by me at the baseline and he said to me "If you need me to move, just say 'left' or 'right' and I'll get out of your way." My reply was "Sir, it's my job to stay out of your way." When you get a cooperative relationship like that, it makes life easy for all concerned.

Monday of this week, one member of that same crew was officiating a game at our home gym. I wasn't shooting but waved and said hi to her at a timeout. My daughter plays at her town tonight and I'll be shooting. There won't be any problems with the refs and if an issue comes up, I'm confident that it will be worked out in a friendly, professional manner.

BTW, to the OP who had a bad day. Welcome to sports shooting! Good days and bad days are part of the attraction/curse. LOL!

[inchman254]

As you say, sounds like a tough night.

Frankly, I don't think the ref's have the time or inclination to purposely get in your way. They have a job to do and must coordinate their position with the other ref(s) to cover the play. Their job is not to make your job easier, or even to consider your needs.

When I first started shooting ball, when working the baseline I used to think the same thing (that refs often intentionally got in my way) and I often found myself pressed up against the wall on a tight baseline to stay out of the ref's way, missing lots of opportunities in the meantime.

Then I realized (duh!) that they switch sides during play stoppages. In a two-ref game one works down low on one side and the other hangs back on the other side of the floor.

The "forward" ref (working down low at my end) stays on the side that he starts on when play resumes until the next stoppage, because they have specific areas of the floor that is their responsibility to watch and they can't just switch randomly during plays. So, if you pay attention, it's easy to get in position early at the same time as staying out of their way.

So, when the whistle blows, make it your job to note where the refs are and get out of their way in advance by moving to the side away from the forward ref. When the inbound is from the other end, I note their position and chimp my shots as I calmly walk to the other side of the key. As the play comes toward you, you can then concentrate on setting up your shots.

It doesn't always leave you where you want to be, but the refs will come to respect you for respecting their space, and you won't get many good shots while the guy is in front of you or you're trying to stay out of his way, anyway.

I always tell them, when asking them if it's ok if I work the baseline before the game, that I'll stay on the opposite side of the guy working the low position and this almost always brings an expression of relief to their faces. When working with a ref for the first time, this statement is often the tipping point as to whether they let me into their space on the baseline.... that and my rubber lens hood. ;)

[snyderman]

We run into this in the wonderful world of sports TV from time to time...

At the NCAA level, our hand-held camera guys will let refs know in no uncertain terms that they'll never make it to the NBA if they don't learn to stay out of the way of the cameras. :lol:

LOL! Thanks for the huge belly (ref pun intended!) on the way to handle those striped fellows!

[snyderman]

Dave, don't sweat it man, we all have our days. Be polite but also don't be afraid to ask a ref if there's a reason they are being difficult (if you are sure that's the case). I once simply told a ref that I had a job to do as well which seemed to resonate. The rest is just practice. The more frames you shoot, the better you get. I'd highly recommend taking it easy on burst shots while you improve since timing is one of the keys to solid action, not 10fps and hoping one comes out. There's a place for that but it doesn't help the learning curve imo. Good timing means you are "in" the game and seeing and anticipating developing action. Develop that and you'll be a better sports shooter as your exposures improve as well. Good luck and I look forward to getting together.

Thank you for your advice. Well taken. Your experience about burst-shooting is spot on. While the action was on the far end of the court, I was deleting 3 or 4-4 shots I'd just taken using the burst strategy. Better results last week shooting one frame at the pont of action and by anticipating where the action would take place.

dave
dave

[snyderman]

Sounds like an unlucky night. It happens.
Refs in our HS games rotate around the court.
You learn to pick up each refs paths to the baseline also.
If I'm always ending up where he wants to go I ask him
if he has a "sweet spot". They are usually very helpful.
One warned me, pre game, that he goes to the base line "hot" while focused on the action.
Good thing he warned me because he would have knocked me silly had I not
paid attention during his rotation. :-)
Make small talk with them and they'll warm up.
Dave

Thanks for the advice Dave. I'll try speaking with them Friday night before the game or during time-outs.

dave

[snyderman]

That's actually a good idea. Give the ref an 8x10 of his overweight butt and maybe he'll stop posting in front of you. :)

Good luck in your next game.

Probably a good idea! Although I haven't gotten to know any of them enough to even say the same guys are doing the same venues. I'll keep my eyes open a little better for the refs and make an attempt to work WITH them.

dave

[snyderman]

You just described about 75% of my games. Refs are going to be your worst enemy because most of the time they don't care.

My advise to you is stay mobile. If a ref keeps standing in front of you move a bit so they are not right in front of you. If all else fails you can always try to ask nicely for them to not stand in front of you. I find a lot of time they dont really realize they are standing in front of you and they become a little more aware. The other times they give you the f&%$ off look.

As far as the quality of your shots, just keep practicing. Get out there and shoot as often as you can.

Thanks for the pep talk northpointphoto! I try to get along with everybody. Need to make an effort to talk to the guys in stripes before games.

dave

[snyderman]

As you say, sounds like a tough night.

Frankly, I don't think the ref's have the time or inclination to purposely get in your way. They have a job to do and must coordinate their position with the other ref(s) to cover the play. Their job is not to make your job easier, or even to consider your needs.

When I first started shooting ball, when working the baseline I used to think the same thing (that refs often intentionally got in my way) and I often found myself pressed up against the wall on a tight baseline to stay out of the ref's way, missing lots of opportunities in the meantime.

Then I realized (duh!) that they switch sides during play stoppages. In a two-ref game one works down low on one side and the other hangs back on the other side of the floor.

The "forward" ref (working down low at my end) stays on the side that he starts on when play resumes until the next stoppage, because they have specific areas of the floor that is their responsibility to watch and they can't just switch randomly during plays. So, if you pay attention, it's easy to get in position early at the same time as staying out of their way.

So, when the whistle blows, make it your job to note where the refs are and get out of their way in advance by moving to the side away from the forward ref. When the inbound is from the other end, I note their position and chimp my shots as I calmly walk to the other side of the key. As the play comes toward you, you can then concentrate on setting up your shots.

It doesn't always leave you where you want to be, but the refs will come to respect you for respecting their space, and you won't get many good shots while the guy is in front of you or you're trying to stay out of his way, anyway.

I always tell them, when asking them if it's ok if I work the baseline before the game, that I'll stay on the opposite side of the guy working the low position and this almost always brings an expression of relief to their faces. When working with a ref for the first time, this statement is often the tipping point as to whether they let me into their space on the baseline.... that and my rubber lens hood. ;)

Good stuff Dave. Thanks for sharing all your experienced info.

dave

[namasste]

Dave, strongly consider the suggestion before about givng the refs a print. You cna even drive some sales that way since most shooters don't do a lot of ref shots or let the refs know when they do. These guys do put a lot into their job out there and have been very appreciative when I have given them a link and told them I got some shots of them. Some even bought which is more than I can say for most parents.

[superdiver]

we all have those days...thats why there are so few of us who can actually get some decent shots. If it was easy we would be fighting shoulder to shoulder with every other parent and their uncle on the floor!

the trick to do is learn the rotation of the refs. If they are using 3 refs, and they SHOULD be at the HS level, then the one who goes to the scores table to report the foul moves to that side of the floor and the other two refs SHOULD rotate around. Once they rotate the "under the basket" ref is SUPPOSED to stay on HIS half of the basket side. I then rotate to the side he is SUPPOSED to not be on.

If they are running two ref (which is common due to lack of certified refs) then you have to have a report with them. I know them all in my small town peretty well and I am about the only one shooting so they always try to stay away from me if they can...

good luck...lol