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View Full Version : scolded for shooting with pro gears not making money??


TooManyShots
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:09
Quite silly. Have anyone of you being scolded for shooting with pro gears and not making money??? Sometimes, I have my gears shipped to my place of work and I do bring my camera gears to work. My staff, especially, the college part timers (film and photography majors) often scolding me for not making money off my gears. Of course, obviously, they think that if you shoot with pro gears, you should be able to make money off them. :) Do they actually think that just because you shoot with pro gears you can make money of your photos???

SouthernJumper
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:15
I've heard some theories on it, such as "Respecting the field". Meaning, you giving away free quality pictures isn't very respectful to the people trying to earn a living from it. But I've only heard it in the horse world so I don't know about anything else. I would imagine it's the same.

FocalPrincess
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:21
Honestly I think that's kind of stupid. If someone can afford pro quality gear but just has a love of photography, the rest of the world should probably mind their own business and appreciate what comes of the person's hobby. But then, I'm a big fan of minding one's own business.....

kaitanium
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:23
I've heard some theories on it, such as "Respecting the field". Meaning, you giving away free quality pictures isn't very respectful to the people trying to earn a living from it. But I've only heard it in the horse world so I don't know about anything else. I would imagine it's the same.

ive been to photo workshops and thats the pitch too. it does make sense but again as DoodleBunz said, its really up to the photographer himself. either way works.

NeoTokyo
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:29
There is nothing wrong with being cheritable. If another photog is worried that you are taking money from him or her then they must not feel too confident in their own brand and style.

Every shooter has a different style that fills what a client might want.

No one has the right to scold you because of the price you charge or lack there of.

Being that they are your friends and students I would just humor them. :)

TooManyShots
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:29
I don't think it has much to do with "respecting the field." If so, Canon shouldn't sell their pro gears to non-pros. :) I think it is back to the question that it is not the gears that make you good. Is what you shoot and who you know. College students are naive in someway. The film major part timer often dreams off getting a professional grade video camera so that he could begin earning money being a camera man.

ive been to photo workshops and thats the pitch too. it does make sense but again as DoodleBunz said, its really up to the photographer himself. either way works.

Familiaphoto
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:29
Up to the photographer in my opinion. If you have a passion for photography for the sake of the art and can afford the equipment why shouldn't you buy and use it. Its like saying a non computer programmer should not get a high powered computer.

RandyMN
19th of December 2008 (Fri), 23:35
Tell them that to make money there has to be someone that is willing to pay, then ask them if they want to volunteer.

ELT_Photo
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 00:36
I find this to be a completely ridiculous argument - I wear a "professional"
diver's watch, should I take it off because I'm not a professional diver?
Should my friend sell his "pro" bass boat because he just uses it for fun?
It's a free-market economy - if you can afford it, buy it.
The OP is not talking about giving away photos for free -
just the argument that only "pros" should have "pro" equipment.

Regards,
Eric

Andrushka
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 00:50
just tell those haters that you are so awesome that you charge $50k/hour and that really weeds out a lot of low budget jobs :-) haha

FlyingPhotog
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 01:02
just tell those haters that you are so awesome that you charge $50k/hour and that really weeds out a lot of low budget jobs :-) haha

The Perfect Answer...! ;)

dpastern
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 02:07
I've heard some theories on it, such as "Respecting the field". Meaning, you giving away free quality pictures isn't very respectful to the people trying to earn a living from it. But I've only heard it in the horse world so I don't know about anything else. I would imagine it's the same.

I've heard the same too. My take - you, as the photographer, own copyright. You can do *whatever* you want, and if other pro photographers don't like it, tough stickies. I'd probably tell 'em where to go as well (and I can assure you, it'd most certainly not be in very polite terms either).

Dave

FlyingPhotog
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 02:09
I've heard the same too. My take - you, as the photographer, own copyright. You can do *whatever* you want, and if other pro photographers don't like it, tough stickies. I'd probably tell 'em where to go as well (and I can assure you, it'd most certainly not be in very polite terms either).

Dave

Great way to make friends and contacts in the biz...!

argyle
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 08:00
I've heard some theories on it, such as "Respecting the field". Meaning, you giving away free quality pictures isn't very respectful to the people trying to earn a living from it. ..

ive been to photo workshops and thats the pitch too...

I've heard the same too. My take - you, as the photographer, own copyright. You can do *whatever* you want..

The OP said nothing about giving away any of his/her work, strictly asking about a "non-pro" using "pro" equipment (which is also a misnomer). Basically, if you can afford it, buy it...and pay no attention to the buzzing of the jealous types. Should people that can afford high-end gear "buy down" so as not to offend those that cannot? Ridiculous.

dcavldy2
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 08:34
This has happen to me even on these forums so you got a better response than I did, I only do this as a hobby and have not charge any one, but now if they want them printed I send the prints to mix and they do pay for the printing.

If I went to being a pro with it and had a studio set up than I might charge to cover the over head cost on my end.

But I'm with you if you can afford the gear and you love doing this than go for it and just let the comments go with the wind.

Life is way to short to not do what you enjoy doing. as you get older you might not be in the health you are in now and may not even be able to hold on to a camera in the years to come. So do what you love to do now and don't worry what others say or think. It is your life not theirs.

BPL
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 08:35
I agree with DoodleBunz, it's your equipment and your time. Do whatever you want with it!

neil_r
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 08:43
I find this to be a completely ridiculous argument - I wear a "professional"
diver's watch, should I take it off because I'm not a professional diver?
Should my friend sell his "pro" bass boat because he just uses it for fun?
It's a free-market economy - if you can afford it, buy it.
The OP is not talking about giving away photos for free -
just the argument that only "pros" should have "pro" equipment.

Regards,
Eric
+1 from me to that

GSH
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 08:52
Buy what you want, use it as you wish.

Anyone making negative comments is probably jealous. Or just ignorant.

DStanic
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 10:55
Haha.. I think my mom thinks the same thing.. that I should make some money with all the gear I have. lol

But I agree with everybody that if it's a hobby and you do what you want with it!

If you are giving away free photos when others are trying to make money, that's a whole different thing altogether, and the OP was not implying that was the issue.

Tom O
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 13:23
This is such an old arguement but fun to see what's important to different people..

Here's my rant: :rolleyes:

I get the "why don't you....." thing quite often from friends etc. The one I really hate is the "What you should do is......"..Hey!! it's my hobby. I buy the gear I want, I shoot what/when I want and could not care any less about what anybody thinks about it or my photos. IT'S A HOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why I have the freedom to put the good, bad & indifferent on my photo site. I'm not selling anything nor do I want to and I'm sure as he11 not trying to impress anyone.

End of rant & good for 3 months now:D

birdfromboat
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 18:46
I had better sell my nikes, I couldn't play basketball with michael jordan on his worst day.

Croasdail
20th of December 2008 (Sat), 22:30
Stupidist thing I have heard. So if you go out and buy a $2500 guitar, you had better become a pro musician? Buy a car with 505 hp, better become a racer? My neighbor has a beautiful grand piano worth over 10K, does he need to change careers? Have the best in hunting or fishing gear... need to become a guide? Pro grade range or viking refridge in your house... need to become a chef? Seriously...

AxxisPhoto
21st of December 2008 (Sun), 13:19
This has happen to me even on these forums so you got a better response than I did, I only do this as a hobby and have not charge any one, but now if they want them printed I send the prints to mix and they do pay for the printing.

If I went to being a pro with it and had a studio set up than I might charge to cover the over head cost on my end.

But I'm with you if you can afford the gear and you love doing this than go for it and just let the comments go with the wind.

Life is way to short to not do what you enjoy doing. as you get older you might not be in the health you are in now and may not even be able to hold on to a camera in the years to come. So do what you love to do now and don't worry what others say or think. It is your life not theirs.

Don't worry about it. I've seen photogs shoot with pro gear that turn out not good at all, and I've seen the results of images from a point-and-shoot that looked like it came from a bazillion dollar camera!

The image begins in your mind. The camera is just a means of creating it!

DrunkenGarbageCan
21st of December 2008 (Sun), 14:49
I would just tell them that after years of using "lesser" gear, you promised yourself to some better gear when you could afford it. Tell them the money aspect is not that important to you as it was when you were younger and in their shoes (this might be complete bs, but it sounds good)

Just curious, if they are so "good" and making bucks with their lowly gear, how come they can't upgrade their own gear?

rral22
21st of December 2008 (Sun), 15:11
One thing I would like to say after reading all these suggestions is: why do you even care? What other people say or think just shouldn't be so important.

andrewhuxman
21st of December 2008 (Sun), 15:28
It all boils down to .... Its not the gear but the person behind the gear which makes good or great photos and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

RichSoansPhotos
21st of December 2008 (Sun), 16:13
Quite silly. Have anyone of you being scolded for shooting with pro gears and not making money??? Sometimes, I have my gears shipped to my place of work and I do bring my camera gears to work. My staff, especially, the college part timers (film and photography majors) often scolding me for not making money off my gears. Of course, obviously, they think that if you shoot with pro gears, you should be able to make money off them. :) Do they actually think that just because you shoot with pro gears you can make money of your photos???


I would assume it is very hard to make money in the photography business, but getting pro gear, doesn't necessarily mean you are going to get jobs, let alone getting paid for it

neil85
21st of December 2008 (Sun), 18:18
i have never been scolded for what i have although ive been told that its a shame i dont try and make money doing photography since ive dropped a few grand on gear and only use it for fun

birdfromboat
21st of December 2008 (Sun), 18:43
Its all about confidence in your tools. I am a toolmaker and could probably work accurately with cheaper (chinese) micrometers and indicators, but I work with much higher confidence with top brand tools (Starret, Mitutoyo). We could all use low end cameras and save as much as possible on lenses and still produce good images, but it is easier to feel good about the prospect with the equipment that gives confidence. Besides, if you do sell someday, would you rather lose a couple hundred bucks on a 400 dollar lens or a couple hundred on a 1500 dollar lens? its the same money, but the 1500 dollar lens was alot more fun to own, wasn't it?

Amamba
23rd of December 2008 (Tue), 18:03
Haha.. I think my mom thinks the same thing.. that I should make some money with all the gear I have. lol

But I agree with everybody that if it's a hobby and you do what you want with it!

If you are giving away free photos when others are trying to make money, that's a whole different thing altogether, and the OP was not implying that was the issue.

Sorry but this is not the case, either. Otherwise we'd have no charity and no friends helping friends, since whether you help your neighbor clear snow from his driveway, or your wife's babysitting with somebody's kids for free, or you help someone stranded on the road change a tire, or help a friend put a new roof up - there's always somebody trying to make money doing just that. If you want to do something for free, it's nobody's business.

rdenney
24th of December 2008 (Wed), 00:21
This comes up in music, too. If a hobbyist musician has a professional-quality instrument, he is accused of putting on airs.

This is silly, of course.

1. There is no shortage of pro-quality gear.

2. A hobbyist owning pro-quality gear does not keep a pro from owning pro-quality gear.

3. The manufacturers of pro-quality gear depend on hobbyists to buy it to create a large enough market so that it's worth making the stuff at all. Pros should thank hobbyists for making it economically viable for the manufacturers to make such products.

As to whether it's right for hobbyists to give away the fruits of their labor: It's theirs to give away, and it's not anybody else's to prevent giving it away. If pros can't do better than hobbyists, then they might consider another line of work.

The creation of art is a fundamental human need. Only a few will have the talent and drive to do it for money, but all need it and benefit from it, be it singing carols at Christmas or creating photographic images of whatever quality with high-end equipment.

Rick "who has heard this crap for decades" Denney

FlyingPhotog
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 01:40
This comes up in music, too. If a hobbyist musician has a professional-quality instrument, he is accused of putting on airs.

3. The manufacturers of pro-quality gear depend on hobbyists to buy it to create a large enough market so that it's worth making the stuff at all. Pros should thank hobbyists for making it economically viable for the manufacturers to make such products.


NAILHEAD <--> STRUCK

danieldare
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 01:46
Its even worse when photographers that have been shooting for a few years longer than you get upset that you have lower rates than they do, and because of it you get more business.

I have the lowest rates in my area for quality photos, and I often chewed out by other photographers in the area for having some of their clients come to me, just because of my lower rates...

:/

RandyMN
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 01:52
Its even worse when photographers that have been shooting for a few years longer than you get upset that you have lower rates than they do, and because of it you get more business.

I have the lowest rates in my area for quality photos, and I often chewed out by other photographers in the area for having some of their clients come to me, just because of my lower rates...

:/

Your really hitting a sore spot there!

With many unknowns, lower rates can undercut those who are already charging what the market offers.

Obviously your rates steal their customers, and normally that's part of business and competition. But the way you word it makes me wonder???

danieldare
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 01:59
Im not really "unknown" in my area...

There are really only 3-4 good music photographers within a 50mi. radius that dont charge $200+ for a shoot...

My rates reflect the budget oof my target clients (local un-and-coming bands...)
most have members that are in high-school, so they obviously cant all afford to pay $100 for a promo shoot :/

alexanderGARDNER
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 01:59
I work in the motorcycle industry and the best gear costs a bomb but it sure makes enjoying my hobby easier even if I can't lap Chad Reed or outgun Bayliss. Helps a bit that I'm not paying retail for it all.

lens pirate
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 02:09
Quite silly. Have anyone of you being scolded for shooting with pro gears and not making money??? Sometimes, I have my gears shipped to my place of work and I do bring my camera gears to work. My staff, especially, the college part timers (film and photography majors) often scolding me for not making money off my gears. Of course, obviously, they think that if you shoot with pro gears, you should be able to make money off them. :) Do they actually think that just because you shoot with pro gears you can make money of your photos???

Please please please stop putting the extra s at the end of the word gear.
It makes your post painful to read. It's pro gear or camera gear. I mean no disrespect and I assume English is your second language. Just want to be helpful.

THANKS!

RandyMN
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 02:14
Please please please stop putting the extra s at the end of the word gear.
It makes your post painful to read. It's pro gear or camera gear. I mean no disrespect and I assume English is your second language. Just want to be helpful.

THANKS!


That's just Semantics, don't sweat the little **** in life! We all know what is meant.

neil_r
28th of December 2008 (Sun), 06:31
Please please please stop putting the extra s at the end of the word gear.
It makes your post painful to read. It's pro gear or camera gear. I mean no disrespect and I assume English is your second language. Just want to be helpful.

THANKS!

Your post would carry more weight had it been written in the OPs first language ;-)

infam0ussteven
29th of December 2008 (Mon), 01:20
I suppose people just assume shooting with pro gear means you must make money off of it when we really just do it for the passion of photography..

Tandem
29th of December 2008 (Mon), 12:16
Having pro photo gear(s) comes in handy when you want to barter services with the person who has pro cooking gear(s), pro construction gear(s), pro plumbing gear(s), pro painting gear(s), pro auto repair gear(s), pro computer gear(s), etc.

Have camera, will shoot for food. :)

ngray77
29th of December 2008 (Mon), 14:22
I have pro gear because, after working with what I had, and seeing the results, I didn't want a reason to blame the gear anymore. Whether or not that approach fits with your personal ethic of working with the limits of your gear is another matter entirely.

Just tell them you are assisting the economies of volume to move the price of their dream gear closer to their reach.

Hermeto
29th of December 2008 (Mon), 15:16
What you do with your camera is nobody’s business but yours.
Whenever people don’t understand that, don’t argue; just tell them to buzz off.
They might not understand the reasoning, but they’ll understand the point, that’s for sure.

It is okay to have an opinion.
It is not okay to stuff it into somebody else’s throat.

Interestingly enough, most of the people who embrace the professional feel of your pictures, stop to appreciate that when you ask them to pay $2.00 for your ‘professional’ 6x4 prints.