Mola Demi Beauty Dish with a 580EX II

[pnmd]

I received my Mola Demi dish today from Adorama, $279 and free shipping special. I'm loving this dish! Some may have seen my other post with the Ebay beauty dish but I just had to have the Mola after reading so many good things about it. I used the mount from my Alzo softbox which fit perfectly! :)


Serious packaging with wooden case:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvjrmgXTI/AAAAAAAAAJE/eEVdpJZ39lI/s720/IMG_0009.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvlU1l6yI/AAAAAAAAAJI/37-EaUqHpkg/s720/IMG_0010.JPG


This shows the Mola light spread:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvrVVXvbI/AAAAAAAAAKg/now5fSAKKjI/s512/IMG_9967.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvt6IKX_I/AAAAAAAAAKQ/tpKz-pQKPH0/s512/IMG_9983.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvvGQl90I/AAAAAAAAAKU/L91pLHsm0bQ/s512/IMG_9984.JPG


Mola's Sympal Clips holds the Alzo mount firmly in place. I didn't have to drill any holes. :)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxzDcDsTYI/AAAAAAAAAKk/Zf-MfliJ-UI/s720/IMG_0037.JPG


Not sure who Shatterkiss is but after checking out his Behind the Scenes pics with the Mola Demi and the way he uses it on location and in studio, I went with the Mola Demi.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shatterkiss/sets/72157600213628463/

[pnmd]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvx_rvGBI/AAAAAAAAAJs/YMvBTg_OqWU/s720/IMG_9991.JPG

580EX II doesn't extend fully in the dish when I mount it sideways for use with my ST-E2:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvwrtWj9I/AAAAAAAAAJo/fPtFNPQFk2A/s720/IMG_9985.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvscAaqdI/AAAAAAAAAJc/vVa0ghg8OKc/s720/IMG_9979.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvhsXA2XI/AAAAAAAAAJA/IrTWJtBpDv4/s720/IMG_0001.JPG

[pnmd]

580EX II extends into the Mola when mounted by design with 580 sensor facing forward. I'm still able to trigger with ST-E2 but sometimes it won't fire if I'm in front of the dish. I suspect those with Pocket Wizards shouldn't have problems.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUx7hxrcFVI/AAAAAAAAAK0/mjVtK6pB_wI/s720/IMG_0039.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUx7ghB0ZfI/AAAAAAAAAKw/6UaZsQyJVmc/s720/IMG_0041.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUx7fg33t8I/AAAAAAAAAKs/mnFWKPWGcHc/s720/IMG_0046.JPG

[pnmd]

Now for some pics. The quality of light is beautiful, IMO. :) Much more light spread than the Ebay dish I had previously. This is a good thing for 3/4 or full shots.

Canon 50D F4.0 at 1/80 shutter. Iso 125. Shot in ETTL mode with 580EX II:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvnJ6dfxI/AAAAAAAAAKY/hMXwTHmGePc/s512/IMG_9927.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvo6mFl8I/AAAAAAAAAKc/g6xUH44I_KI/s512/IMG_9930.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUxvqRuVIcI/AAAAAAAAAJU/4zoFq0JC_28/s720/IMG_9941.JPG

[Rudi]

Looks like that 580 is firing right through the diffuser of the dish - look at how harsh the shadows are, under her chin and by the side of her nose.

[pnmd]

Looks like that 580 is firing right through the diffuser of the dish - look at how harsh the shadows are, under her chin and by the side of her nose.

The shadows IMO are because the Mola is placed to the left of subject and the way I aimed the dish. Set everything up rather quickly. Also if you check out the full shot you can see the light spread in the shape of a dish. Would a strobe or monolight behave differently? The literature from Mola, "The Mola Perforated Aluminum Diffuser (PAD) allows light to be redirected from the flash tube back into the reflector, while allowing a small amount of light to pass through the perforations. Lightweight and unbreakable, the PAD allows air to pass through the diffuser for greater circulation."

[cdifoto]

Rudi's not talking about the angle of the shadow. He's talking about the hard edge of the shadow. That hard edge looks like what you get from direct flash. In other words - the beauty dish isn't doing anything except maybe controlling spill.

It's no surprised though. Dishes and boxes are designed for strobes that have flash tubes that throw the light all over the place. The Speedlite has a concentrated beam. That's why I stick to umbrellas when working with hot shoe flashes.

[TMR Design]

I agree. There's nothing there that is spreading the light evenly and since there isn't a central deflector you're getting a very hard light just passing through the dish.

I'm not saying you couldn't make it work but what you've got going on there is not at all representative of the quality of light one would get from a beauty dish mounted to a strobe. The design of a beauty dish is based on much more than just its shape and having light enter and exit.

[J Kacey]

I agree with Robert,
You might want to make a solid white center diffuser.... At least you would get some light bouncing around the dish.

[cdifoto]

Not an elegant solution, but the simplest and least expensive would be to create a short foil-covered cone the size of the grid and put that over the grid so that the concentrated beam would hit that then bounce back into the dish and spread out that way. The cone disperses the light so that it's not just bouncing off the foil and back at the Speedlite and out the hole.

A more elegant solution would be to purchase a proper studio strobe.

[pnmd]

I agree with Robert,
You might want to make a solid white center diffuser.... At least you would get some light bouncing around the dish.

I see what you guys are saying. May have to consider a solid diffuser.
Here's some shots with the nylon diffuser that came with it. I bumped the flash exposure compensation up a notch for the nylon diffuser. Slightly less harsh shadows.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUyVTEHkb_I/AAAAAAAAALI/bTIFhV-Kvvk/s720/IMG_0071.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUyVUw90AAI/AAAAAAAAALs/N-Uom6KHjEk/s512/IMG_0068.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUyVWUyNtbI/AAAAAAAAALQ/HNxri2QQTgE/s720/IMG_0067.JPG

[pnmd]

Not an elegant solution, but the simplest and least expensive would be to create a short foil-covered cone the size of the grid and put that over the grid so that the concentrated beam would hit that then bounce back into the dish and spread out that way. The cone disperses the light so that it's not just bouncing off the foil and back at the Speedlite and out the hole.

A more elegant solution would be to purchase a proper studio strobe.


Never would've thought of the cone pattern but will look into it. You guys are good. Definitely getting strobes, I'm waiting for the Alien Bees Einstein to come out and see if it lives up to the hype.

[TMR Design]

It's better but you still have a very uneven distribution of light. Rather than using a translucent diffuser disk I still think a central silver deflector would be better. That would allow light to hit the deflector and then bounce back into the dish for better distribution.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't see cdi's post with a similar suggestion.

[Rudi]

I'd start just by putting some alfoil over the diffuser. That would show much improvement. You can see from these examples that the mesh diffuser is doing its job, or trying to, even with the 580! Very slight softening to the shadows, but nowhere near enough. Simply placing some foil over the diffuser might not be the most elegant solution, but it will use the reflective surface of the dish, and get you closer to the characteristics that you buy a BD for in the first place.

[J Kacey]

Another suggestion is to go to the auto parts store and get a round convex mirror(Self adhesive kind for truck mirrors) and attach it to the stock diffuser.
Mola also makes a opal diffuser as a accessory.....

[pnmd]

It's better but you still have a very uneven distribution of light. Rather than using a translucent diffuser disk I still think a central silver deflector would be better. That would allow light to hit the deflector and then bounce back into the dish for better distribution.

EDIT: Oops, I didn't see cdi's post with a similar suggestion.

Thx, Robert. You're right. The nylon diffuser does spread the light out more but still not optimum BD distribution.

I'd start just by putting some alfoil over the diffuser. That would show much improvement. You can see from these examples that the mesh diffuser is doing its job, or trying to, even with the 580! Very slight softening to the shadows, but nowhere near enough. Simply placing some foil over the diffuser might not be the most elegant solution, but it will use the reflective surface of the dish, and get you closer to the characteristics that you buy a BD for in the first place.

Rudi, I tried some foil over the perforated Mola diffuser and distribution seems better. No hotspot in the middle. You can see the foil in the middle...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUyghMcmjvI/AAAAAAAAAMY/zKUuFtlDy6I/s720/IMG_0112.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUyetpg7kBI/AAAAAAAAAL0/27aZcVYTrrk/s720/IMG_0097.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SUyevHXu-BI/AAAAAAAAAM0/ftLHIgm0LLk/s512/IMG_0096.JPG

[pnmd]

Another suggestion is to go to the auto parts store and get a round convex mirror(Self adhesive kind for truck mirrors) and attach it to the stock diffuser.
Mola also makes a opal diffuser as a accessory.....

Thx J Kacey. I'm probably going to get the Mola opal diffuser. Do you know what effect opal will render? Also I'm considering your grid. Necessary? I know Steven on Model Mayhem only shoots BDs with grids.

[tiler65]

I think it makes her skin look plastic.

[Rudi]

I think it makes her skin look plastic.

:lol: Oh dear! There's always one.... :D

[cdifoto]

I think it makes her skin look plastic.
Matches her personality.

[pnmd]

Matches her personality.

I'm gonna tell her you said that!
She said, "Oh no you didn't!" ;)

[cdifoto]

Too bad she ain't real. I wouldn't mind taking a few slaps from her. Kinda reminds me of Britney from when she was hot.

[Rudi]

Britney was never hot...

[pnmd]

Found the answer regarding my Mola Opal diffuser disc question.

From W.Seren on Model Mayhem:
"This I used a Demi with the perforated aluminum diffuser.
http://modelmayhm-1.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/080419/22/480aaf7b6f792.jpg

This was again the Demi but with the opal glass diffuser." Softer look IMO
http://modelmayhm-1.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/080724/23/488947e9f355f.jpg

[Rudi]

See how soft the shadows are, using a proper studio strobe and the aluminium diffuser, compared to your first examples? Even using the opal glass diffuser, I'm afraid that you'll get a much harsher look if you use the 580EX II.

[pnmd]

Too bad she ain't real. I wouldn't mind taking a few slaps from her. Kinda reminds me of Britney from when she was hot.
That's officially her new name- Britney!

Britney was never hot...
Come on now, Britney was that hot. Hit me baby one more time.

[J Kacey]

I have no experience with the glass diffuser. I think it just softens the light and gives it less contrast than the perforated aluminum disk. I have heard the are fragile also. I would try the convex mirror in your case... I think it will give you the most amount of bounce for the speedlight. Plus they are cheap.

As for my grid... I will leave that up to you to decide if it is necessary for your needs. If you have a problem controlling spill, then yes it is a tool that will work for you.
I look forward to seeing more test with the 580 BD combination.

[pnmd]

See how soft the shadows are, using a proper studio strobe and the aluminium diffuser, compared to your first examples? Even using the opal glass diffuser, I'm afraid that you'll get a much harsher look if you use the 580EX II.

I see what you're saying. But don't you think some of the softness in his pics were done in post production?

[Rudi]

He might have smoothed the skin a little, but I doubt that he manipulated the shadows...

[pnmd]

I have no experience with the glass diffuser. I think it just softens the light and gives it less contrast than the perforated aluminum disk. I have heard the are fragile also. I would try the convex mirror in your case... I think it will give you the most amount of bounce for the speedlight. Plus they are cheap.

As for my grid... I will leave that up to you to decide if it is necessary for your needs. If you have a problem controlling spill, then yes it is a tool that will work for you.
I look forward to seeing more test with the 580 BD combination.

Thx J. I'll look into the convex mirror. Seems like an inexpensive DIY, but I don't want too get too DIY with a$300 dish. ;)

Most likely will order the grid to focus light. BTW- why does the Demi grid cost more than AB or Hensel grid? Not complaining, just wondering.

[cdifoto]

I see what you're saying. But don't you think some of the softness in his pics were done in post production?
Maybe, maybe not. However, if he had shadows like yours and tried to lift them in post, the shadow area would be MUCH noisier than it is. Whether he lifted his shadows in post or not, he started with softer ones.

[pnmd]

He might have smoothed the skin a little, but I doubt that he manipulated the shadows...

Maybe, maybe not. However, if he had shadows like yours and tried to lift them in post, the shadow area would be MUCH noisier than it is. Whether he lifted his shadows in post or not, he started with softer ones.

Alright you guys win.;) No but seriously it makes sense, the bigger/stronger the light source the softer the image. I'll look into the convex mirror or opal diffuser option. Or use the 580/Demi for more contrasty, harsher look.

[J Kacey]

Thx J. I'll look into the convex mirror. Seems like an inexpensive DIY, but I don't want too get too DIY with a$300 dish. ;)

Most likely will order the grid to focus light. BTW- why does the Demi grid cost more than AB or Hensel grid? Not complaining, just wondering.

Because if you can afford the Mola you can afford to pay more for the Grid :lol:
No, really the Mola grid is larger so it has rubber edge and three mounting clasps with velcro mounting. Customers have been really happy with the setup.

Can I ask you why you went with the Mola as opposed to the Speedotron?

[pnmd]

Because if you can afford the Mola you can afford to pay more for the Grid :lol:
No, really the Mola grid is larger so it has rubber edge and three mounting clasps with velcro mounting. Customers have been really happy with the setup.

Can I ask you why you went with the Mola as opposed to the Speedotron?

I knew that was the reason for the greater cost, it's for the Mola.;)

I went with the Mola over Speedotron because I spent $60 on an Ebay dish and I wanted to make sure I got a BD I'd be happy with this time. Also I'm turning into a "Profoto snob" after reading all the forum posts.;) And actually I rationalized if I can spend $400 on a new golf driver every few months, I can spend $300 on BD I'd most likely use forever.

[J Kacey]

Alright you guys win.;) No but seriously it makes sense, the bigger/stronger the light source the softer the image. I'll look into the convex mirror or opal diffuser option. Or use the 580/Demi for more contrasty, harsher look.

I don't think it's the larger light source that is the problem. I think it is what cdifoto said.... On a standard studio flash the flash tube is inside the dish, so when it goes off it is throwing light everywhere in the dish... In your case with the speedlight it is only going strait at the aluminum diffuser. Most of the light goes through the diffuser and very little is being bounced around the dish. Adding a reflective disk is going to bounce the light creating a larger light source with more beauty dish like qualities...

[J Kacey]

I knew that was the reason for the greater cost, it's for the Mola.;)

I went with the Mola over Speedotron because I spent $60 on an Ebay dish and I wanted to make sure I got a BD I'd be happy with this time. Also I'm turning into a "Profoto snob" after reading all the forum posts.;) And actually I rationalized if I can spend $400 on a new golf driver every few months, I can spend $300 on BD I'd most likely use forever.

The only reason I ask is because I have them both and they are all but identical.... Only real difference is the center diffuser and how the speedring mounts. Personally I like the POTN Speedo mod.... Four small bolts mounted solid is way better than the little retainer clips Mola provides IMO

Edit: Was it Dave that first posted the Speedo Speedring adapter mod? Link (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=521033&highlight=kacey+grid) I want to credit were it is due :)

[pnmd]

The only reason I ask is because I have them both and they are all but identical.... Only real difference is the center diffuser and how the speedring mounts. Personally I like the POTN Speedo mod.... Four small bolts mounted solid is way better than the little retainer clips Mola provides IMO

Edit: Was it Dave that first posted the Speedo Speedring adapter mod? Link (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=521033&highlight=kacey+grid) I want to credit were it is due :)


I read all about the Speedo BD mod. There were 2-3 posts about it here. I actually read you're post on Model Mayhem about them being identical. Regarding the Mola Sympal clips, I was concerned about them not holding firmly but I find them very stable. And I like that I can switch speedrings for different strobes. Ultimately, I got it because of the name. And I liked what Shatterkiss did with the Mola on his Flickr pics.

[Iahcon]

Where did you get that flash bracket?

[TMR Design]

The concept of being a Profoto snob is all well and good, but it's defeated by the fact that you're using a Speedlight with the dish.

The thing that makes a Profoto or a Speedotron or Elinchrom or Norman of Paul Buff beauty dish a Beauty Dish is the fact that it's mounted to and lit by a strobe that enters the dish with a round (not rectangular) flash tube inside the dish (not just directing light through the opening) and spreads the light very evenly, whether passing through a central white translucent diffusion disc or reflected back by a central deflector.

These are important design considerations when thinking about building or modifying a beauty dish to work with Speedlight's.

A Quantum flash or older Sunpak would be better suited due to the round flash bulb used rather than a rectangular flash head of Speedlight.

Also, regardless of how large the hot spot is and whether you prefer a hot spot or even light throughout, you want the dish lit as completely as possible and all the way to the edges. Once your design changes any of these characteristics you're not really creating the quality of light one would expect from a beauty dish.

[TMR Design]

Edit: Was it Dave that first posted the Speedo Speedring adapter mod? Link (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=521033&highlight=kacey+grid) I want to credit were it is due :)

Hi Jerry,

It was Dave (tetrode) that first did the mod to use the Speedotron dish with the Elinchrom strobes, followed by me. Dave originally used the Norman insert ring and then I made a change to the mod by using a Photoflex insert that made the mod a little smoother and has a better fit when mounted to the Elinchrom strobe.

Jerry, I'd be very curious to see how the convex mirror works as opposed to the standard deflector which is either flat or concave.

[pnmd]

The concept of being a Profoto snob is all well and good, but it's defeated by the fact that you're using a Speedlight with the dish.

The thing that makes a Profoto or a Speedotron or Elinchrom or Norman of Paul Buff beauty dish a Beauty Dish is the fact that it's mounted to and lit by a strobe that enters the dish with a round (not rectangular) flash tube inside the dish (not just directing light through the opening) and spreads the light very evenly, whether passing through a central white translucent diffusion disc or reflected back by a central deflector.

These are important design considerations when thinking about building or modifying a beauty dish to work with Speedlight's.

A Quantum flash or older Sunpak would be better suited due to the round flash bulb used rather than a rectangular flash head of Speedlight.

Also, regardless of how large the hot spot is and whether you prefer a hot spot or even light throughout, you want the dish lit as completely as possible and all the way to the edges. Once your design changes any of these characteristics you're not really creating the quality of light one would expect from a beauty dish.


Yes, I was joking about the Profoto snob comment. ;) Doubt I'll ever own Profotos because the cost would not be justified for my hobbyist pursuits.

Round flash tube: never even considered that as a factor. Makes sense. I'm considering Paul Buff Einsteins if they ever come out.

[pnmd]

Where did you get that flash bracket?

It came with my Alzo softbox.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALZO-Softbox-for-Speedlight-Flashlight-Portable-Flash_W0QQitemZ270289481953QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCame ra_Flash_Accessories?hash=item270289481953&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


http://alzodigital.com/images/equipment/porta_flash_complete_rear_qtr_600w.jpg

[pnmd]

I don't think it's the larger light source that is the problem. I think it is what cdifoto said.... On a standard studio flash the flash tube is inside the dish, so when it goes off it is throwing light everywhere in the dish... In your case with the speedlight it is only going strait at the aluminum diffuser. Most of the light goes through the diffuser and very little is being bounced around the dish. Adding a reflective disk is going to bounce the light creating a larger light source with more beauty dish like qualities...

Definitely will be looking for a convex mirror. Cheap enough to try and may be a marked improvement.

[pnmd]

----CONVEX MIRROR TRIALS----

5.25inch Convex mirror can be seen under the diffuser. I taped the mirror to diffuser:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2hfp5d7lI/AAAAAAAAANI/70JHQg9lmzE/s720/IMG_0188.JPG

Shot of mirror from back:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2hmlVDk7I/AAAAAAAAANg/x5jilLYBuqQ/s720/IMG_0186.JPG

0 Flash Exposure Compensation in ETTL Mode:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2heo8mM1I/AAAAAAAAANE/1MTSA-UU4kM/s720/0%20comp.JPG

+1 FEC:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2hlb6ZZsI/AAAAAAAAANc/2h4KUv5p-f4/s720/%2B1%20comp.JPG

+2 FEC, light extends to edge of dish:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2hj3g06xI/AAAAAAAAANY/grqoeKNzqk8/s720/%2B2%20comp.JPG

[pnmd]

Light appears more white. And softer?
Nice catchlights ;)

0 Flash Exposre Compensation in ETTL mode:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2haKoKjwI/AAAAAAAAAM4/34z2ICAuViM/s720/0%20b.JPG


0 FEC:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2hcwzQEJI/AAAAAAAAAOE/uSNBNN8r--c/s512/0.JPG


+1/3 FEC:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2hnhLwjUI/AAAAAAAAANk/cE32R_8OgG4/s720/%2B%201%3A3.JPG

+1/3 FEC:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2hbsl7viI/AAAAAAAAAOA/jPLVovClOu0/s512/%2B1%3A3.JPG

[pnmd]

2 more for comparison...
BTW- out of all my modifiers (Alzo speedlight softbox, Ebay dish, Ebay softbox umbrella) the Mola makes the most pleasing and is the easiest to attain catcthlights IMO.

0 FEC:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2nwMdPJcI/AAAAAAAAAOU/7Yba3HpHdSA/s720/%2B%2B00.JPG


+2/3 FEC:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2nxUjhjHI/AAAAAAAAAOY/VCbG_P-Sn28/s720/%2B%2B2%3A3.JPG

[TMR Design]

Clearly it's much better. I would get the flash out of ETTL. There's no reason for that. Treat this as you would a studio strobe by using the flash in manual mode and set the level. Forget about ETTL and FEC. You want complete control and you don't want the camera of flash to be doing the thinking for you.

The dark ring doesn't seem to be a problem from what I can see but if it were or you wanted to really even out the light and eliminate that ring then my suggestion would be to extend the posts holding the diffuser with the mirror so it's further forward and that will bring the dark circle forward or eliminate it...hopefully the latter.

[TMR Design]

2 more for comparison...

0 FEC:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2nwMdPJcI/AAAAAAAAAOU/7Yba3HpHdSA/s720/%2B%2B00.JPG


+2/3 FEC:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2jrnDod1tjI/SU2nxUjhjHI/AAAAAAAAAOY/VCbG_P-Sn28/s720/%2B%2B2%3A3.JPG

Now you're starting to overexpose and create hot spots on the subject. Ultimately you want to meter the shot and as I said in my previous post, use the flash in Manual, not ETTL with FEC.

[pnmd]

Clearly it's much better. I would get the flash out of ETTL. There's no reason for that. Treat this as you would a studio strobe by using the flash in manual mode and set the level. Forget about ETTL and FEC. You want complete control and you don't want the camera of flash to be doing the thinking for you.

The dark ring doesn't seem to be a problem from what I can see but if it were or you wanted to really even out the light and eliminate that ring then my suggestion would be to extend the posts holding the diffuser with the mirror so it's further forward and that will bring the dark circle forward or eliminate it...hopefully the latter.

Thx Robert and J Kacey: The convex mirror seems significantly better. Finally the flash is bouncing off the white BD dish as intended.

Good idea about extending the posts to eliminate the black ring.

Now for the tough part. I love ETTL because I can change FEC and ratio from the camera. I did realize that I wasn't getting consistent lighting in ETTL but it's so convenient. Regarding Manual Flash, aperture controls exposure of subject and shutter controls ambient light?

[pnmd]

Now you're starting to overexpose and create hot spots on the subject. Ultimately you want to meter the shot and as I said in my previous post, use the flash in Manual, not ETTL with FEC.


Yeah, I noticed the +2/3 flash compensation was too hot. Looks like I'm going to Manual flash...:)

[TMR Design]

I understand the convenience of ETTL and that controlling flash output from the camera is cool indeed.. BUT, not the way to go. Studio lighting (which is now the realm you've entered) is all about consistent results and ETTL won't do that for you. Break the habit and get used to metering and setting levels manually. In the end you'll always be in control and have repeatable and consistent exposures.

Yes, aperture controls your flash exposure and shutter speed controls ambient exposure. In a studio environment, typically we set the shutter speed to the camera's max sync speed or the max speed the particular strobe will sync to our camera and then forget about it.

Dragging the shutter is normally done on location and outdoors to control skies and natural backgrounds, whereas in the studio we have other means of controlling light to lighten or darken backgrounds.

[Lotto]

A suggestion for better spread of the speedlight: a diffuser like the Omni bouncer. It make the light further extended into the dish too. I used a plastic bottle over my flash for couple of my DIY BD projects and got better results so far, and there is no noticeable power lost once inside the dish.

[pnmd]

I understand the convenience of ETTL and that controlling flash output from the camera is cool indeed.. BUT, not the way to go. Studio lighting (which is now the realm you've entered) is all about consistent results and ETTL won't do that for you. Break the habit and get used to metering and setting levels manually. In the end you'll always be in control and have repeatable and consistent exposures.

Yes, aperture controls your flash exposure and shutter speed controls ambient exposure. In a studio environment, typically we set the shutter speed to the camera's max sync speed or the max speed the particular strobe will sync to our camera and then forget about it.

Dragging the shutter is normally done on location and outdoors to control skies and natural backgrounds, whereas in the studio we have other means of controlling light to lighten or darken backgrounds.


Thx Robert: those last 2 paragraphs were so helpful. I'll try leaving the shutter speed to the max sync on my 50D and changing the power manually on my 580EX II. Good point about the dragging the shutter being more for outdoor shots. Yes, I'm entering the realm of studio lighting...scared :cool:

[pnmd]

A suggestion for better spread of the speedlight: a diffuser like the Omni bouncer. It make the light further extended into the dish too. I used a plastic bottle over my flash for couple of my DIY BD projects and got better results so far, and there is no noticeable power lost once inside the dish.

Lotto: Love the Omni Bouncer suggestion! Will definitely consider this. And it'll alow the flash to extend further in the dish. When I place the 580EX's sensor facing outward for better line of sight reception, the flash head is about half inch short of the BD opening.

[J Kacey]

I would say Britney looks a whole lot nicer in this light!!!

[pnmd]

I would say Britney looks a whole lot nicer in this light!!!

Thx Jerry: It looks much better. Originally I was getting upset with you guys for raining on my new purchase!!!:mad: I didn't realize that too much 580EX light was going thru the Mola perforated diffuser. Thanks for the convex mirror idea. Much softer and whiter light as intended.

Jerry, do you think the Omni-Bounce would allow me to leave out the mirror. I'm kind of a purist and don't like modded things. ;)

[Rudi]

Jerry, do you think the Omni-Bounce would allow me to leave out the mirror.

I'm not Jerry, but NO! The mirror is doing most of the work, the Omni-Bounce will do the rest. If you take the mirror out, most of the light will blow straight through the diffuser again.

I'm kind of a purist and don't like modded things. ;)

If you're a purist then don't use a damn speedlight with a Mola beauty dish! It's heresy! :p :D

[pnmd]

I'm not Jerry, but NO! The mirror is doing most of the work, the Omni-Bounce will do the rest. If you take the mirror out, most of the light will blow straight through the diffuser again.



If you're a purist then don't use a damn speedlight with a Mola beauty dish! It's heresy! :p :D

Damn you Rudi! You were the one who called me out first. J/K, you are obviously very knowledgeable about modifiers since you spotted the harsh lighting first. :)

Somehow I thought the Omni-Bounce would spread the light more laterally onto the dish. Guess not, so I'll keep the mirror.

I'm still a wanna-be purist...

[pnmd]

Stands:

I'm looking to get a grip and stand to mount the Mola. Anybody know if this Avenger will support it?
BTW- how would I mount my setup on a grip?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=289146&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/289146.jpg


Also considering this Avenger Baby Combi Boom setup. I had a Manfrotto 024B 3-PC boom and returned it because it was entirely too big for my space and cumbersome.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=184625&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/184625.jpg


BTW- how do you mount a BD to a grip?

[pnmd]

I got idea to use the BD with a grip from Shatterkiss:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shatterkiss/3102566251/

[Rudi]

Damn you Rudi! You were the one who called me out first. J/K, you are obviously very knowledgeable about modifiers since you spotted the harsh lighting first. :)

Somehow I thought the Omni-Bounce would spread the light more laterally onto the dish. Guess not, so I'll keep the mirror.

I'm still a wanna-be purist...

The Omni-Bounce will scatter the light somewhat, but not enough, IMO. It will be better than with a naked 580, but worse than having the mirror there. And please, don't take my word for it, try it! It shouldn't take that long to try... :)

[J Kacey]

Jerry, do you think the Omni-Bounce would allow me to leave out the mirror. I'm kind of a purist and don't like modded things. ;)

Anything is worth a try.... I've found shaping light is all about modding things. You improvise with what you have on hand to put the light where you want it or keep it out of a area where you don't. Why not attach sheet magnet like Refer magnets are made of and attach it to the back of the Mirror? Then use another to sandwich the aluminum diffuser. This will allow you to attach the mirror anytime you want, does nothing to the Demi permanently.....
It's just another tool in your box of tricks. When your lighting calls for something with more contrast, take the mirror off.

When you have or purchase a standard studio strobe Demi will work as it was designed. Nothing is perfect right out of the box for every shot...... Not even the Mola

[J Kacey]

Stands:

I'm looking to get a grip and stand to mount the Mola. Anybody know if this Avenger will support it?
BTW- how would I mount my setup on a grip?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=289146&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/289146.jpg


Also considering this Avenger Baby Combi Boom setup. I had a Manfrotto 024B 3-PC boom and returned it because it was entirely too big for my space and cumbersome.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=184625&is=REG

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/184625.jpg


BTW- how do you mount a BD to a grip?


I think the C-stand will work just fine provided you sandbag the legs....
To attach the BD or your adapter to the Grip to just clamp a standard 5/8 stud (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124751-REG/Avenger_E300_E300_5_8_Stud_with.html) into the Grip.

[pnmd]

The Omni-Bounce will scatter the light somewhat, but not enough, IMO. It will be better than with a naked 580, but worse than having the mirror there. And please, don't take my word for it, try it! It shouldn't take that long to try... :)

Will do, gonna be in Arlington, TX for Christmas and will pick up an Omni-Bounce to try out...

[pnmd]

Anything is worth a try.... I've found shaping light is all about modding things. You improvise with what you have on hand to put the light where you want it or keep it out of a area where you don't. Why not attach sheet magnet like Refer magnets are made of and attach it to the back of the Mirror? Then use another to sandwich the aluminum diffuser. This will allow you to attach the mirror anytime you want, does nothing to the Demi permanently.....
It's just another tool in your box of tricks. When your lighting calls for something with more contrast, take the mirror off.

When you have or purchase a standard studio strobe Demi will work as it was designed. Nothing is perfect right out of the box for every shot...... Not even the Mola

Jerry, thx again for another great idea. Sandwiching a magnet and mirror with Mola diffuser in the middle is such an elegant solution! I'm using 3M clear tape now and it's so uncool. Easy removal with a magnet will allow me to attach strobe.

BTW- For use with the Demi, I'm looking at this item on Ebay, $2000. It's $2400 on BHPhoto. What do you guys think:
Profoto Acute B 600R with head
http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFOTO-ACUTE-B-600-R-GENERATOR-W-FREE-ACUTE-B-HEAD_W0QQitemZ110328990176QQihZ001QQcategoryZ30087 QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

It's gonna be between the Profoto Acute B vs PCB Einstein...wanna stay portable because I don't want to do shoots at my home and would like to do location shoots. ;)

[KDAP]

Hey Folks, Much simpler answer. I use a Gary Fong Light sphere PJ or cloud to difuse the 580, works great, It keeps thge sharpness of the perf grid and spreads the light out. I also use a modded Chimera ring to hold a dyna head as well. When working dyna, all is good, to work 580, the GF slips inside the Dyna ring. I have made a offset adapter to hold the flash. Using Michael Bass cables, I can run it hard wire ttl OCC, to camera, with my 5dM2 or 1DS 3, I have maain/ slave/ ratio control at camera. Pics to come.

OK,, So how do I post a picture here///?

http://www.me.com/gallery/#100241/_MG_0263

Hoe do I post pics here, I have a really slickj set up. Using a Chimera adapter for Dyna, I have a dual light set up, 580 or Dynalite. Using a Gary Fong Light sphere on the 580, gives me nice wrap with less hot spot, I also use either an ST-E2 or Michael Bass Designs OCC set up. Hard wire to camera with full ETTL or HSS in use and master flash control for other strobes.




I have a cool set up for the Dynalight BD as well.

[Lotto]

OK,, So how do I post a picture here///?

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51022

[pnmd]

Update: pics with a friend who is real person, not a mannequin ;)

setup:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3545/3366244504_5bbb01dbe7_b.jpg


Mola beauty dish/580EX II to camera left and 43" umbrella softbox to camera right. Images are straight from camera. FEC +1. You can see the BD catchlights in her eyes.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3577/3366243728_1e6e6d22de_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3655/3365456389_a33cc7c1b6_b.jpg

I've gotten alot of mileage out of my 580EX II's, but I think it's time for some "bigger" lights. I'm considering the Elinchrom Quadra because most of my shoots are on location. :)

[pnmd]

If you're reading this thread you're probably interested in speedlights.
So here's a pic with the Alzo softbox with 580EX II:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3545/3366386750_5dc2703f61_b.jpg