Proper way to convert to "Grayscale/B&W"

[rgomes]

Hi!

Just wondering what the technically "proper" way to convert to grayscale or B&W in Photoshop Elements involves?

Do I use the "Convert to Black and White function" or Image>Mode>Grayscale?

What is the correct way to describe this process? (of removing colour)

"Grayscaling"?

Thanks!:)

[rw2]

You will have more control if you use convert to B & W .

[Bobster]

image>mode>grayscale is not the correct way to get the best results from your colour photograph.. it doesn't do a very good job.. i did have an example somewhere of the different methods of converting to B+W, grayscale, desaturate etc.. i'll see if i can find it

[BrandyJackson]

Good question, I was wondering the same thing. Also to add, is it better to shoot in colour and change, or use the monochrome function on the camera? I've heard it's better to shoot colour, any opinions? I am using a xsi.

[tim]

I use the checkbox in ACR, then I tweak what it gives me using sliders and add contrast.

[Bobster]

hmm i seem to have deleted it from my server, i'll see if i can find some time to do another comparison test :)

[rgomes]

I use the checkbox in ACR, then I tweak what it gives me using sliders and add contrast.

What is ACR?

[rgomes]

hmm i seem to have deleted it from my server, i'll see if i can find some time to do another comparison test :)

That'd be great. I read in Pop Photo that Photoshop in general doesn't do a great job converting to B/W.

I guess my second question is: what should a *good* b/w photo look like? healthy balance of whites and blacks?

[davidcrebelxt]

Good question, I was wondering the same thing. Also to add, is it better to shoot in colour and change, or use the monochrome function on the camera? I've heard it's better to shoot colour, any opinions? I am using a xsi.

Yes... shoot in color.

Camera itself always shoots in color... (well not technically but it processes it to color before coverting to BW.)

In the days of film, the photographer would place colored filters over the lenses, because by enhancing or blocking certain colors from reaching their BW film, would cause the shades to be lighter or darker for certain subjects. (For example you could make a red stop sign really pop out against a green background... wheras with no filter, the shades of gray for those subjects might blend together.) The photographer had to know what filter created the desired effect.

Enter digital. We can retain a color version & have BW at the same time. We have all that color information available (using RAW we have all the sensor data available.) We can simulate placing colored filters in front of the lens in PP. (Shoot RAW, and then use Canon's DPP... use the BW picture style, and you then can see what different color filters would do to the image.) Using different software like LR, you can selectively boost a color tone to desired amount... like having a nearly unlimited array of color filters, with different densities to boot.

If you shoot BW in camera you're stuck with how it was taken. One method I've heard some photogs use, is when shooting RAW, they set camera to BW, so on screen the get the "feel" for the image they envision... while the RAW retains all the sensor data, including the color, for later processing. With jpg, however, that color information is thrown away.

[René Damkot]

Here's a good thread: Click (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=599280)

[Radtech1]

Hi!

Just wondering what the technically "proper" way to convert to grayscale or B&W in Photoshop Elements involves?

Do I use the "Convert to Black and White function" or Image>Mode>Grayscale?

What is the correct way to describe this process? (of removing colour)

"Grayscaling"?

Thanks!:)

There is no "proper" way, there is only what works for you. The problem with just using grascale is that you have no control over the tonal relationships. (Which colors get rendered darker or lighter). When I shot film, I used various filters to get the relationships I want. With PS I developed (found, stumbled on) a quick, easy and powerful mono conversion routine that balances speed, power, and simplicity.

The method I came up with allows you to emulate an infinite set of filters with just one slider - so you can easily pick out what suits the shot best.

You can create an Action, but it is so fast, that it take almost as much time to run the action as it is to do it step by step.

1) Duplicate the Layer (Background Copy)
2) "Desaturate" the Background Copy layer and set the blend mode to Color.
3) Go to the Background (Bottom) layer and select "Image - Adjustments - Hue/Saturation" from the drop down menu.
4) Slide the "Hue" slider back and forth and notice how that affects the relative densities in the shot!

The cool part is this works in older versions of PS or Elements that don't have the "Black and White" choice for Mono Conversion! Probably works with GIMP, too! (Someone want to try it and see?)

I find that this works perfectly well for 99% of my mono conversions.

Give it a try and see if it works for you too.

Rad

For example, here are a couple of grab shots that I took this morning walking the dog. The idea here was to get some sky and some color.

[Radtech1]

Here is the first shot, using only one slider, the Hue slider on the "Background" layer to adjust the tonal relationships. Notice particularly the difference in the red canoes, as well as the sky compared to the snowy mountains in each shot. Also notice that areas without color are unaffected (the two different shades of gray concrete.)

[Radtech1]

And in the second shot, the control in the sky is quite dramatic.

AGAIN, all this is done very simply, with only one slider. People have stated in the past that there are other ways that offer greater absolute control (The panel B & W Sliders, or the Channel Mixer)- that is true, but at a greater complexity. And others have said that there are simpler methods (Black Layer), and that is true too, but you are stuck with no choice in tonal relationships - in other words - no control at all.

This method seems to be a pretty good balance of simplicity with enough control to satisfy most needs.

Rad

[Radtech1]

And once you get the conversion the way you like it, the best way to make it look convincingly like film is to drop some actual film grain on the shot. It was a photographer named Petteri Sulonen who first came up with the idea. HERE (http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_and_White.html?page=5) is a link to the essay where he describes it. (Actually, it is one page of a several page essay that should be required reading for anyone producing digital monochrome images.)

If you don't like to read, HERE (http://byscuits.com/grain-tm400.png) is a link to the actual GRAIN shot. It is PNG format. Just open the link, right click and "Save As..." to download it.

Rad

[René Damkot]

Petteri Sulonen. An this (http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_and_White.html?page=5) is the first link ;)

[Radtech1]

Petteri Sulonen. An this (http://www.prime-junta.net/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_and_White.html?page=5) is the first link ;)

Fixed the spelling - thank you kind sir. (Or "sir-ette" as the case may be! Pesky anonymity of internet forums!)

Rad

[René Damkot]

If I were a girl, it would be "Renee" ;)

[Radtech1]

If I were a girl, it would be "Renee" ;)

Yeah, but who would have guessed that Thomas Canty is really Lonnie! So "René Damkot" could be some swarthy alter ego belonging to a little Finnish girl. :eek:

Rad