Wrestling Advice

[packpe89]

I've been approached about shooting a wrestling tournament. It is a youth event, 6 mats in a HS gym.

Since I've never shot wrestling, here are my questions.

What lenses - I have 24-70L, 70-200L and 85 for this type of shooting. My bodies are a 40D and 1Dm2

Flash? I've shot bb here before, I can get 1/320 at 1600iso @2.8. I try not to use strobes any time it might distract the participants, good idea?

Position, low i guess.

Help? with six mats, I'm guessing I'll need another shooter.

Are there certain shots to denitely get?

Thanks

Joe

[Gatorboy]

This sounds like a recipe for disaster.

If you've never shot wrestling before, I don't think I'd take on a tournament as my first attempt.

I would recommend flash -- it's not going to distract the wrestlers. The 70-200 is all you'll need.

[SnapLocally.com]

I would recommend flash -- it's not going to distract the wrestlers.

Are you sure?

I have talk to the kids and they all have told me that the flash gets there attention and perfer it not be used

Some parents may disagree with your take on flash as well:

Flash should never be used during MMA or wrestling, or grappling matches. It gets into the fighters eyes, causes distraction. There is so much lighting in gyms that you should never need flash for a wrestling match anyway. Kids especially get distracted, it's not fair to these young ones who train so hard, then get out there and try to perform. Give the kids a break and keep the strobes at home. Last thing I want to see while my son is grappling is a flash going off in his face, and if there were I would have to say something. Gives someone in the match an unfair advantage, and helps both to lose.

I took these pics last week, no flash or strobes used: http://snaplocally.com/youth_wrestling

Now I'm not going to say nor imply that I'm the be-all end-all of youth wrestling photographers, I'm just saying I think the shots turned out ok considering I used the light available to me.

[Gatorboy]

Are you sure?

As a former wrestler (7 years), I can tell you from personal experience, that what goes on outside the mat is irrelevant. Wrestlers wrestle by feel, not sight.

If a wrestler is seeing a flash, then they are not concentrating on the task at hand, and probably are not very good wrestlers.

I shot with AB800s at a 3-day wrestling tournament and was sitting with the refs as they rotated from mat to mat in between the 4 mats, and on day 3, one of the refs looked up at my strobes and asked, "So, do you use those at all?" I had to laugh, for they were firing like crazy throughout the event and he never even noticed them.

[Doublea17]

When I wrestled in High School (before Digital Cameras) flash did not bother me or anybody else on my team and now being an asst. wrestling coach I see flash cameras at state tournaments and never heard a wrestler complain flash bothering them, I asked my wrestlers if they notice it and most of them don't they are thinking about the match.

[SnapLocally.com]

Even if you two are correct- and I have no reason to doubt you- rrookey was given a different response when asking the same question. This leads me to believe you're all right- that flash bothers some kids and not others. But, just because some kids aren't distracted doesn't mean the ones that are should have their request to perform without distraction ignored.

If a wrestler is seeing a flash, then they are not concentrating on the task at hand, and probably are not very good wrestlers.

So what? They're kids. How many of them are going to go on and make this a profession? Even if any of them do graduate to sports entertainment or combat sports, the photographers that shoot these sorts of events can say goodbye to their flashes- they're not permitted.

[TTurrill]

I have shot both High school tournaments in Michigan, where the flash was allowed and the AAU Olympics where they did not allow the flash. So, unfortunately the decision will be left in the hands of the officials running the tournament...... I was told personally by many of those involved, that the flash is non distracting.

[Calhoun]

I have shot wrestling with a flash at/for our high school team for the last 7 or 8 years and have never been told I could not use it. This includes at other locations and at the District tournament. I'm usually at mat level and the only reason I've ever been told to leave was when my son was wrestling and I may have made a comment about the call the ref made a little too emphatically. Lesson learned - won't happen again. But flash is no problem.

[packpe89]

OK so check on flash, how about lens choice, 70-200? Also what to shoot.

[northpointphoto]

Are you sure?



Some parents may disagree with your take on flash as well:



I took these pics last week, no flash or strobes used: http://snaplocally.com/youth_wrestling

Now I'm not going to say nor imply that I'm the be-all end-all of youth wrestling photographers, I'm just saying I think the shots turned out ok considering I used the light available to me.

Please can we not turn this into another flash vs ambient argument.


TO THE OP:
As far as your cameras and lenses go it sounds like you're going to be pretty good there. The use of flash is up to you. If you decide to use flash, definitely use it off camera. I would also find some other photographers that have shot wrestling before to help out.

Good luck

[Calhoun]

OK I'm guilty of not really answering the OP's real question.
SS of 1/320 is probably going to be OK as much of the time the wrestlers are not moving that fast. As far as lenses go, if you can get right next to the mat the 24-70 will work fine but the 70-200 is my favorite lense for wrestling. I like to shoot tight for wrestling and don't really worry about getting the whole body of both wrestlers in the frame.
Also with 6 matches going it will be next to impossible for 1 shooter to cover them all. In youth wrestling there can be a lot of quick pins so you might miss some of the matches if you need to get a shot of all of them.
And if you have never been to one with six matches at once on the same floor don't be suprised to find out that most of these tournaments are a loud, chaotic scene with crowded sidelines.

[Gatorboy]

Also what to shoot.

Faces, faces, and did I mention faces? If you know the sport of wrestling, then it is much easier to anticipate what is coming, and you can be ready for it.

[NVcameraman]

OK so check on flash, how about lens choice, 70-200? Also what to shoot.

I mostly use a Sigma 120-300 f2.8 when I shoot wrestling action. I am also only covering one team at a time so I dont move around. If you are doing a 6 mat tournament I would use the 70-200 for flexibility and easier to move around. As stated by others FACES, FACES, FACES.

[northpointphoto]

Another thing. Find out if there are any HS teams wrestling between now and the tournament and go to them and practice. Find out what works and what doesn't.

[MJPhotos24]

never shot wrestling
If you can get to a match before the tournament do so and practice.

What lenses
70-200L - NO other choice IMO

40D and 1Dm2
Whichever you prefer, with strobes/flash you're not going to shoot a lot of fps anyways.

Flash? I've shot bb here before, I can get 1/320 at 1600iso @2.8. I try not to use strobes any time it might distract the participants, good idea?
There's a HUGE difference between strobes and flash, let's get that straight first. At States last year there was about 30 photogs with flashes popping all over the place as state organizers said they were fine. These guys are not getting distracted by flash. However, it really depends on the age group of the youth as younger athletes get distracted easier and you just never know. The quote Snap put from Compact is completely wrong in most instances as a good photographer will know how to use the flash properly, simple as that, but unfortunatley most don't. If you use the flash properly there's no distractions unless the person is looking for it.

If you have strobes and have enough to cover 6 mats (at least 6-8 strobes would be my guess) then I'd set them up, tie them down and use them. If not then maybe one side of the gym or just flash all tournament. IF using flash all tournament you better have a battery pack and extra batteries for when it needs to be charged.

Here's the simple fact, if you can shoot an event with strobes/flash to get the results you want/need then do it. If you don't have to use strobes/flash to get the results you need then all the better, I'd love to shoot ambient over strobes but lighting doesn't allow it all the time.

Snap, I'm not sure why you posted someone else's quote from that thread as you argue against using strobes/flash as well calling it "cheating". Why not state your opinion instead? To call those who use them "cheaters" as in that thread is an insult to myself and every other professional photographer (all NHL, NBA, AFL, USA Wrestling, etc. etc.) who uses the tools available to get the results we need to get our job done. Last I checked a photography was about controlling the light and when there's not enough a photographer supplies it.

Position, low i guess.
Yes/no...watch your backgrounds, the mat is the obvious clean background but when you shoot a bit higher you may sacrifice some faces - I shoot from low to the balcony, mix it up.

Help? with six mats, I'm guessing I'll need another shooter.
If you can afford it and find someone that knows what they're doing, would say so. OR, you can ask how the tournie is set up. Last one I shot if I would have just stayed in the main gym all 2 days I would have gotten every team repeatedly. Instead I moved gyms and that kind of kicked my own a$$ at the same time.

Are there certain shots to denitely get?
Standard, pins, peak action, the ref raising there hands in victory.

[rrookey]

Even if you two are correct- and I have no reason to doubt you- rrookey was given a different response when asking the same question. This leads me to believe you're all right- that flash bothers some kids and not others. But, just because some kids aren't distracted doesn't mean the ones that are should have their request to perform without distraction ignored.



So what? They're kids. How many of them are going to go on and make this a profession? Even if any of them do graduate to sports entertainment or combat sports, the photographers that shoot these sorts of events can say goodbye to their flashes- they're not permitted.


I shot a wrestling match last week, (tough lighting) I was talking to the kids and the ones that I talked to had no clue what was happening outside the ring, wether going on to collage or not they want to win and this is one sport that is more by feel then site, I have been shootiing football and Baseball and those kids do not want a flash, I will be trying flash at a wrestling match this weekend and a basketball game also with flash next week, I will be 580II bouncing them off the ceiling, nothing direct....

[canonnoob]

as a former wrestler (remember im 19 and just out of highschool) I didnt find the flash distracting but in most aspects you will not need a flash with any lens that would be 2.8 or less wide open even in most gyms. Most of the time, I found that the photographers shooting the match did not even use a flash and that it was not bothersome to my technique or anything.

[packpe89]

Thanks guys on the right track now. I do have another shooter lined up. I'll try and get to a match between now and then too.

I guess I call my 550 and 420 strobes sometimes, so no, there will not be gym strobes mounted, would love to one day though.

Tournie is one day, mostly young kids, the oldest is 12 I think. 400 kids, I hope to shoot a couple of hours and then process and start selling, while my other shooter continues shooting.

[MJPhotos24]

If you can find a runner do it, have them take the card, download and cull the bad ones while you continue to shoot. Ask yourself how you're going to organize the matches, how many monitors, etc.

[PuR HART]

where are u at in NC any where near CLT

[packpe89]

Lumberton, south of Fayettville.

[umphotography]

got to disagree with some of the advise...if your inside a gym,,the 70-200 might not cut it and personally i would not shoot with flash...not only would it be distracting for athletes but it could bother spectators as well.

if,,and thats a big if,,you have enough light you will be lucky and you can shoot with the 70-200,,,,likely you will not. i would take an 85mm 1.8 or a 135mm 2.0 just in case you cant flash. i just shot our hs teams and i had to be at f/2.0 at 1250 to get a shutter speed near 500,,,,thats pretty low light but better than when i shot indoor soccer. go in advance and see how close you will get to the mats. then i would plan for low light and no flash

[erbson]

I had a son wrestle in high school. He was better than average and I took tons of pictures. Each gym was different but almost always a bit dark. I used the 70-200L exclusively on my monopod (unless I could sit on the edge of the mat). I never used flash and I pushed the ISO to 1600 if needs be. I chose to sacrifice some noise for crisp photos. The photos I was after were simple - the mat (point of reference) and faces. In fast action that was tough but a bunch of cross arms and tushes were not my favorites. Whatever it is worth and good luck.

[Croasdail]

Well, how did it go? Sorry I saw this late. Flash is allowed here in NC though I generally bounce it for two reasons 1) to avoid any chance at impacting the match, and 2) I don't like they way direct flashed images look. Particularly if you start getting reflected light from the mat itself. There are some horrid mats around, and flashing them up close gives ya some pretty terrible color cast. If you can remote your flashes just as you would strobes, the lighting is much more smooth and you get softer contrast. If you are mat side, the I prefer to bounce which also cancels out the effect of the cycling lights and smooths out the color balance issues from them. On which lens, the 85 would have been my first pick of the litter just in case flashing was frowned upon. All else fails, B/W wrestling images look really cool, and the noise creates a cool grain feel.

Cheers