Photographing Toddlers?

[rgomes]

Hello all --

Having a 'heck of a time trying to get some decent photographs of my 1 year old daughter. I am shoot with indoor lighting which is not the greatest and brightest. When I go to the on-camera flash, it gives me the "flashed" look that I hate. And she hates the flash too! :)

I am shooting in AV (Aperture) mode between f4 and f8 and most of the shots are blurry. When I switch to TV (Shutter Priority), and use a fast shutter speed, the results are too dark.

I am shooting a Digital Rebel XSi with the kit lens. I am using Auto White Balance, AI Focus.

Is the problem with the indoor lighting or with the fact that she's always moving about?

Would a "faster" lens help matters? A nifty-fifty perhaps?

Any tricks and tips -- or steering me to a place to find assistance, would be appreciated! :D

[FOX2PRO]

It's the lighting, and the kit lens. A nifty fifty would help a lot, the 1.8 apeture lets you freeze motion with low light. It's also really cheap.

[mai_lin]

Your kit lens should be fine for doing simple shots especially the IS version you have.

Photographing kids is hard, it takes alot of patience. My 2.5 year old is hard to photograph too.

I actually can't give you much advice on shooting AV to TV - I shoot in manual. The best advice I can give you is to get light, and alot of it when taking shots of her as it will allow you to use a faster shutter and still be properly exposed. Best investment I made for taking shots of my kids was my 430ex flash. It wasn't necessary to take pictures of them but it sure made it a bit easier ;)


Jen D.

[rgomes]

Your kit lens should be fine for doing simple shots especially the IS version you have.

Photographing kids is hard, it takes alot of patience. My 2.5 year old is hard to photograph too.

I actually can't give you much advice on shooting AV to TV - I shoot in manual. The best advice I can give you is to get light, and alot of it when taking shots of her as it will allow you to use a faster shutter and still be properly exposed. Best investment I made for taking shots of my kids was my 430ex flash. It wasn't necessary to take pictures of them but it sure made it a bit easier ;)


Jen D.

Hi Jen!

I keep hearing TONS about the 430ex flash and the 50mm 1.8 prime lens. Does it avoid giving that "flashed" look? I just hate taking a photo where she is white as a ghost and the rest of the background is dark!

[ibdb]

Any flash like the 430ex will work well for you. A fast lens will help somewhat, but for your purposes I'd rate a flash much more important.

I have 3 sons, 9, 6, and coming up on 3 years old. A flash is the best investment you can make for indoor photography. A fast lens can get to higher shutter speed, but at the price of depth of field, and even then may still not be enough.

[mai_lin]

Oh yes, the 430 or 580 will literally revolutionize your indoor shots. I got one primarily because i hated that 'flashed bright look'. I wasn't diappointed, and you won't be either!

Wanted to add: While I think the thrifty fifty is great (its the lens I use the most) - I don't think you should buy it yet. The lens you have is awesome to start with and you should learn to work with it (and not against it) first. A flash would be a great investment for indoor photography. Like you I have little ones and in the winter especially we're indoors alot so it makes sense to have 'portable light' for those situations.


Jen D.

[TheHoff]

Is your on-camera flash the built-in one? Your next purchase should be a flash that can rotate and bounce. A faster lens like a 50/1.8 is a good idea too, but I'd do the flash first. Once you get the hang of bouncing the flash (off the ceiling, off the walls to your side and behind you) you'll get much better results.

[ibdb]

I am shooting in AV (Aperture) mode between f4 and f8 and most of the shots are blurry. When I switch to TV (Shutter Priority), and use a fast shutter speed, the results are too dark.
AV -- the camera is exposing for the ambient light and using the flash for fill. That means that the camera is choosing the exposure without taking the flash into consideration at all. That's why you're seeing such slow shutter speeds. It is possible to combine the two successfully, but an external (not the built-in) flash and practice will be the keys.

TV -- the camera is trying to get enough light from the flash to give you the shutterspeed you've selected and the aperture it's chosen to match that shutterspeed, but the built-in flash doesn't have enough oomph (technical term ;) ) to do it.

You can also try to use manual -- set your ISO to 400 or 800, depending on how much ambient light you also want to capture. Set a shutterspeed fast enough to try to freeze your child's motion -- 1/125th is probably going to be close enough for a toddler indoors most of the time. Set an aperture to give you a decent depth of field. You're probably shooting reasonably wide angle, so you may be good at f/5.6 or faster. The camera will take those settings and then tell the flash to do whatever it can to provide the light to make those settings work.

There is a huge amount of outstanding information in the lighting forum stickies about how to use flash. It's a whole new world, and one well worth investigating.

[rgomes]

AV -- the camera is exposing for the ambient light and using the flash for fill. That means that the camera is choosing the exposure without taking the flash into consideration at all. That's why you're seeing such slow shutter speeds. It is possible to combine the two successfully, but an external (not the built-in) flash and practice will be the keys.

TV -- the camera is trying to get enough light from the flash to give you the shutterspeed you've selected and the aperture it's chosen to match that shutterspeed, but the built-in flash doesn't have enough oomph (technical term ;) ) to do it.

You can also try to use manual -- set your ISO to 400 or 800, depending on how much ambient light you also want to capture. Set a shutterspeed fast enough to try to freeze your child's motion -- 1/125th is probably going to be close enough for a toddler indoors most of the time. Set an aperture to give you a decent depth of field. You're probably shooting reasonably wide angle, so you may be good at f/5.6 or faster. The camera will take those settings and then tell the flash to do whatever it can to provide the light to make those settings work.

There is a huge amount of outstanding information in the lighting forum stickies about how to use flash. It's a whole new world, and one well worth investigating.

Hey, thanks for all that. I guess I should keep my eyes out for sales on the Canon external flash. Is the 430 one sufficient or is the 580 better?

I tried to play around by turning down the flash compensation (1 to 1 1/2 stops) and it didn't seem to do much. I suppose the external flash produce "softer" flashes because you can bounce them off different surfaces, not necessarily hitting the subject directly on, causing the "flashy look"?

I'm going to try to play with the settings that you've recommended. tomorrow if she is in the mood!

PS - How do you deal with babies/toddlers blinking when the flash hits them? :eek:

[mai_lin]

The difference is power and, obviously, price. I got the 430 because of price and weight - I have bad wrists and the thought of having a 580 AND a heavy lens on my camera was daunting...

I find my 430 works great with my kids.

If you bounce the flash well enough the light won't bother anyone so you don't have to worry about blinking being an issue. Half the time my kids don't even know I put the flash on :lol:



Jen D.

[rgomes]

The difference is power and, obviously, price. I got the 430 because of price and weight - I have bad wrists and the thought of having a 580 AND a heavy lens on my camera was daunting...

I find my 430 works great with my kids.

If you bounce the flash well enough the light won't bother anyone so you don't have to worry about blinking being an issue. Half the time my kids don't even know I put the flash on :lol:



Jen D.

Interesting.... do you have any sample shots that you took with the 50mm and Speedlite 430? I'd love to see what I am missing!

[TheHoff]

Flash bounced to the white wall to my left:

http://i42.tinypic.com/5l5ctd.jpg


580 or 430; get whichever fits your budget. You don't need the ultimate power of the biggest one and both perform similarly. I think this was with the 85/1.8 but the fast aperture isn't so important once you get the hang of bounce lighting. This is a nicer shot because of the flash; my room light from this direction is awful.

[Curtis N]

For now - Find the biggest window in the house and put the kid next to it. Window light rocks! (as long as it's not direct sunlight) Also try ISO 800.

For tomorrow - Get yourself a good flash unit. Flash opens up great new worlds of creativity and versatility. Just understand that learning to use flash requires a significant learning curve. It's worth the climb, but patience is required.

[mai_lin]

For now - Find the biggest window in the house and put the kid next to it. Window light rocks! (as long as it's not direct sunlight) Also try ISO 800.

For tomorrow - Get yourself a good flash unit. Flash opens up great new worlds of creativity and versatility. Just understand that learning to use flash requires a significant learning curve. It's worth the climb, but patience is required.

Ain't that the truth... I've spent an ENTIRE YEAR learning flash and lighting... boy did it completely change the dimension of photography for me (for the better, of course)


Jen D.

[ibdb]

Hey, thanks for all that. I guess I should keep my eyes out for sales on the Canon external flash. Is the 430 one sufficient or is the 580 better?

I tried to play around by turning down the flash compensation (1 to 1 1/2 stops) and it didn't seem to do much. I suppose the external flash produce "softer" flashes because you can bounce them off different surfaces, not necessarily hitting the subject directly on, causing the "flashy look"?

I'm going to try to play with the settings that you've recommended. tomorrow if she is in the mood!

PS - How do you deal with babies/toddlers blinking when the flash hits them? :eek:
I think the original 430 is available through Amazon right now for $199 -- the 430 II is a little more. I have the original 580, but I always tend to overbuy when given the opportunity. :lol:

The ability to bounce flash certainly does a lot for softening the light put out by your flash. Hitting someone straight on, no matter what the flash, has the potential for creating a much harsher look.

As for settings, I rarely set the flash to -EC unless I'm using it outside or for fill. I'll see if I can post some examples later, but I took some shots of my kids in front of the Christmas tree this year with the camera set in M with the camera set to underexpose by 2 stops (metered the tree and then set the camera to underexpose two stops from "correct") and then set the flash to +1/3 or +2/3rds (most of the time I have my flash set to +1/3 to +2/3). The kids were about 5 feet in front of the tree, and I was about three feet in front of the kids. Flash was bounced off the ceiling, straight over my head. That had the effect of underexposing the background slightly while exposing the kids correctly.

Take a look through some of the FAQs in the lighting forum here and you'll get some fantastic guidance from some very talented folks here.

[ibdb]

Examples:

Camera set in AV @ -2, flash probably at +1/3 bounced overhead. ISO 800, 1/100th at f/4. You can see I'm quite close to them in this shot.

http://abergseyeview.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p511391349-4.jpg

(And my wife was just shaking her head at our little actor. :lol:)

Camera set in M, metered the background and set the exposure to underexpose by 2 stops, flash at +1/3 bounced overhead. Taken at 8pm with no lights other than the Christmas tree lights on in that room. ISO 800, 1/60th at f/2.8.

http://abergseyeview.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p309990965-4.jpg

[les_au]

cheers for all the tips here, i was trying to photograph my brothers twins over chrismas, i did the unthinkable and loaned my 430EX out because i did not think i would need it.

[Jon M]

Using flash and Av and Tv exposes for the background. Mode P exposes for the foreground. Try bouncing the flash off of a wall or ceiling. Omnistoffen makes a small plastic attachment to diffuse the light making it softer.

I also shoot indoors with ISO of 400 with flash. If you can be next to a window with natural light, its even better.

[bobbyz]

I see that you mentioned AI focus. First get out of it, either use single shot or AI servo. AI Focus is total junk IMHO. One yr. old kids don't move that fast that you need AI servo, one shot more should be more than OK for indoor shots.

[USER876]

Love my 430EX, It's a steal at 200 bucks.

I recently took these of my friends nephews with the 430EX.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SVkN79wBOdI/AAAAAAAACo4/GEFezjRHxnA/s800/IMG_1672fff.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SVkNkOz4O_I/AAAAAAAACmk/TirHlTg0CLo/s800/IMG_1641fff.JPG


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SVkOAjkxSJI/AAAAAAAACpQ/k5wkWR02YDU/s800/IMG_1678bfffs.JPG

[shaftmaster]

I take lots of indoor photos of my 3 year old. My solution agrees with the consensus on this thread -- get an external flash that can be bounced off a wall or ceiling. I also bought a few fast prime lenses (50 f/1.4, 35 f/2, etc.) but the external flash made the most difference as far as capturing a usable image. The primes helped alot for blurring the background which is a nice portrait effect.

Anyway, one problem I have is that I like taking both vertical and horizontal shots which means I have to re-orient the 430ex flash head depending on the orientation of the camera body. I've been looking into ways to use my 430ex as a wireless slave flash that is triggered remotely so the 430ex can sit on a table pointing at the ceiling regardless of the camera body orientation. The wireless solutions I've found so far (Canon ST-E2, RadioPopper, Alien Bees, etc.) are several hundred dollars.

As for choosing between the 430ex and 580ex, I think one difference is that the 580ex can trigger slave flashes using wireless E-TTL but the 430ex cannot. Check this link for tons of Canon EOS flash info: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

[USER876]

For a solution with the speedlight.......in landscape, keep it pointed up and towards to the right. When you change to portrait it will still be firing straight and upwards.

[Helen Bartlett]

Great shots everyone.

I do the opposite to most people in this thread - I shoot only with available light - window and occasionally the odd angle poise lamp, but with fast lenses. I think the 50mm would be a wonderful investment, it is my favorite length and the 1.8 is lovely and cheap. It takes a bit of practice working with such a shallow depth of field, particularly with small children who move so fast but once you get the hang of it it is incredibly liberating. It also really helps learn to 'see' the light if you are working with so little of it.

I also recommend one shot focus, particularly if shooting wide open, it seems to work much better.

Good luck, I am sure you will have a blast whatever you decide to get.

Helen

[shaftmaster]

After reading the earlier post about photographing kids near a window, I realized I hadn't shot indoors without a bounce flash in quite a while. So, I decided to take some indoor shots with available light. Here are two of the better ones using my EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk1 lens.

50mm @ 1/200 F4.0 ISO 400

339657

50mm @ 1/500 F2.8 ISO 400

339658


I think I will try some shots using table lamps and other artificial lighting to see if I can get some nice natural looking shots during the evening.

[lookingforaname]

available light with a 50 1.4 and a toddler:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/splatypus/IMG_0207.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v702/splatypus/IMG_0594.jpg

I also have a flash now, but love love love window light and my 50mm!

[Saxi]

As mentioned by everyone the two secrets for shooting toddlers is a 50mm (1.4 or 1.8 for good low light performance) and a speedlite (430 or 580). I have a 50mm f/1.4 & a 580EX II and I can shoot my 20m old son easily either with by themselves or together. If I use the 50 by itself, I am typically working on ambient light only, once I put the speedlite on I am bouncing it and trying to get soft light from all angles to mimic natural ambient light.

When using the 50mm, prepare to see a lot more noise if you are going to go without flash unless you have plenty of ambient light (lots more than you need to see with your own eyes) as you have to shoot with 800-1600+ ISO. Cameras perform very differently at this ISO range, the better the camera the better the performance.

With a speedlite you can shoot at 100 ISO if you want to, with very little low noise. Although you still may want to increase the ISO to allow in more ambient light to look more natural. I am still trying to perfect this balance, but spending the extra $160 on the better flash and $250 on the better 50mm lens was an investment I never regret.

[Saxi]

This was taken at around midnight with absolutely no ambient light, I believe it might have been using my 550EX at the time rather than my new 580EX II. I bounced the light off the ceiling, got three frames, and my son never woke in the process. All and all you would never know there hardly enough light to even see there was a baby in the crib. Yet there isn't a lot of flash burn going on either.

[potn_momma2]

Saxi: Wow! My kids would never forgive me if I did that, but it just shows you the power of having an external flash!

I have a 50mm 1.8 and a 430 EX, and they are keeping me busy busy trying to figure them out so I think that would be great for quite a while. I have an almost 2 year old and almost 1 year old that I [try to] take photos of.

[ByTheBrooke]

I"m in agreement. I have teh 430 EX II and LOVE it. I bounce it off ceiling when possible, walls when not. I just took these shots using it the other day, in manual with a 5.6 ap and 250 shutterspeed. I also got a sto-fen to put on my flash, which softens it just enough to suit me.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa123/ShutterFlyMomma/Nate/IMG_2982.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa123/ShutterFlyMomma/Nate/IMG_2989-1.jpg

Like Saxi, this was shot with no ambient lighting whatsoever-lights out right after I put him to bed :) Bounced it at I think 90 degrees, maybe 60.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa123/ShutterFlyMomma/Nate/IMG_2751.jpg

the flash has been my wisest investment thus far. I've played with a nifty fifty, and even have on on its way to me for keepers, but can say that if I never bought any more equipment after buying the 430 EX II, I'd be "ok" :) (maybe not SATISFIED, but I could make do!)

[USER876]

Few more with the nifty fifty and the 430EX

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SZEXzR4meZI/AAAAAAAADUY/dLNElBvQrZU/s800/final_WEB.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SZVmmRpUBpI/AAAAAAAADcM/ppuvlY0Zp0Q/s800/IMG_2306_WEB.JPG

[rgomes]

Wow! Spot on exposure in the first one. The second is nice but seems like the focus is a little off on the lower half of her face. Or maybe it's just me?! :)

I think I am going to invest in a 50mm and speedlite!

[USER876]

Wow! Spot on exposure in the first one. The second is nice but seems like the focus is a little off on the lower half of her face. Or maybe it's just me?! :)

I think I am going to invest in a 50mm and speedlite!

Second one, was not taken with speedlight, and shutter was too slow because of available light (look at the blur on the lollypop stick).

[advaitin]

Lots of good advice here. My two cents. The Hoff was right about flash--your best investment at this time would be a flash with rotating bounce head. An extension cord and flash bracket that moved the camera farther away from the lens wouldn't hurt. And something like a flash card or soft box for softening or redirecting a little light to the eyes.

Then, one last thing. A good set of knee pads. Get down on the kid's level. Much better shots that way.

[Pekka]

I wrote this a long time ago but I suppose it's still "valid" :) :

http://photography-on-the.net/essays/kids.html

[Saxi]

I wrote this a long time ago but I suppose it's still "valid" :) :

http://photography-on-the.net/essays/kids.html

This is a good read, thank you.