Noise !!??

[Bruford]

I am getting quite a few photos that have allot of noise in them. My camera is a 10D using ISO 200 varying aperture and shutter speeds. The lenses I use the most when I notice this in my 28-135 IS and 75-300 IS. I use NeatImage and it does a good job but is this normal at such a low ISO?

[PacAce]

Are you by chance getting the noise after you level adjusting an image that is really underexposed? If so, then that's what usually happens. However, you shouldn't really see any type of noise on a normally exposed picture at ISO 200.

[Bruford]

Here are two examples strait out of camera and full size (be warned)

http://bruford.outruncreations.com/gallery/ls84.jpg

http://bruford.outruncreations.com/gallery/cb63.jpg

[Jim_T]

Those images aren't "straight out of the camera".. You've opened and saved them again using Photoshop CS. It shows up in the EXIF info.. (Plus JPEG images from the camera would only be about 2MB instead of 6MB)..

I don't know if that is noise.. The grain is in the sky, (That's normal because he blue channel usually has the most noise)..

But... it looks a bit like it could be JPEG artifacting because it's blotchy.. The grain isn't spread out evenly across the sky.

What mode were you shooting in ? If you are using JPEG, make sure you use the best quality (fine).

I can't help suspecting that Photoshop is doing something to your images.. Try shoot a JPEG and read it directly using a card reader. See if the noise or artifacting is still there.

Here is a shot from my 10D taken at ISO 400.. It is directly from the camera.. All I did was copy it from my Compact flash card over to pbase.. If you click on 'original size' and view the sky.. you'll see it's much better than your ISO 200 shots.. So there is a problem somehwere.

http://www.pbase.com/jim_townsend/image/18375267

[Bruford]

Yes you have me there, I did open the file in Photoshop to view it and rename it. But no editing done. My camera was setup at that time to take large fine jpg (which are about 6mb out of cam)
If it is JPEG artifacting what can I do to stop it? I may answer that question myself by stating that from now on I will be shooting in RAW using Adobe RGB color space. But if I convert to jpg using Photoshop will I still get JPEG artifacting.

[Bruford]

Here is a shot from my 10D taken at ISO 400.. It is directly from the camera.. All I did was copy it from my Compact flash card over to pbase.. If you click on 'original size' and view the sky.. you'll see it's much better than your ISO 200 shots.. So there is a problem somehwere.

http://www.pbase.com/jim_townsend/image/18375267

Is it possible that the problem may be camera. It is almost 1 year old so if you think the body can cause this I will want to get it checked.

[baggins001]

When you save your file as a jpeg there should be an option window, in there you should find an option dealing with compression factor. The lower the compression, higher the quality. Some graphics packages set a default compression factor above one which means your loosing data every time you save a file. Make the compression factor one and see if your problem goes away.

[aliflack]

6mb sounds more like the size of a RAW file, not a jpeg - my 300d gives large fine jpegs of 2mb...

are you absolutely sure nothing is happening in between taking the pics off camera and final save??

[tim]

Post a picture that's really straight out of the Camera. Give us one each of ISO 100, 200, 400, 800. Don't open it with anything, just take the photo and post it up.

[Bruford]

Ok here is 4 photos from iso 200 to 1600. This time strait from cam. And also I am sorry JumT..a jpg strait from cam is around 2mb. I don't know why I thought it was 6mb maybe I was thinking RAW.:o

As you will see even at 200 there is a bit of noise in sky.

http://bruford.outruncreations.com/gallery/iso 200.JPG

http://bruford.outruncreations.com/gallery/iso 400.JPG

http://bruford.outruncreations.com/gallery/iso 800.JPG

http://bruford.outruncreations.com/gallery/iso 1600.JPG

[tim]

The noise in those shots looks reasonable to me, comparable to my old 300D, but more than the 20D.

[Jim_T]

If your images are coming out of the camera with a file size of 6 Megabytes, then you
ARE shooting in RAW.. (I just downloaded a bunch of RAW files and they're all around 6 MB. RAW files out of the 10D have the extension .CRW JPEG files have the extension .JPG JPEG file sizes will be in the area of 2 megabytes.

I suspect your computer is set to open RAW files with Photoshop CS and photoshop is using a front end to open and convert the RAW into something it can recognize.. What converter are you using ? (Adobe RAW, or Capture One or someting similar) ?

If this is the case, then you ARE processing your images. (The RAW file converter *has* to do this in order to convert it to a standard file format like TIFF or JPG).

If you somehow set up too much default sharpening in your RAW file converter, then you will get the noise you see in your images.

[Bruford]

I suspect your computer is set to open RAW files with Photoshop CS and photoshop is using a front end to open and convert the RAW into something it can recognize.. What converter are you using ? (Adobe RAW, or Capture One or someting similar) ?

If this is the case, then you ARE processing your images. (The RAW file converter *has* to do this in order to convert it to a standard file format like TIFF or JPG).

If you somehow set up too much default sharpening in your RAW file converter, then you will get the noise you see in your images.

Sorry for the mixup in the file size of jpg:oops: I always thought they were around 6 mb I never really checked the size from the card because I would always open right away in Photoshop and save and they would be about 6mb.

When I first got the camera I shot mainly jpg and noticed alot of this noise. I expect it at around 800 and up but I didn't think I would see this much at 200. Now I shoot mainly RAW and have noticed it too. My workflow is I usualy use Capture One to copy files from card and then convert to jpg for edit in Photoshop. Sometimes I may also bring the Raw file from card right to Photoshop but not often. I like Capture One for RAW work better. In C1 I usualy sharpen about 100-150% at Threshold of 3.

Could it be the other setings WB shutter speed or aperture?

[tim]

If you sharpen before you do noise reduction the noise will get worse. Noise reduction should be the first step in your workflow.

To reduce noise make sure you expose the images properly - use your histogram. Underexposed images have more noise.

[Phil V]

I'm guessing it's over ambitious in-camera sharpening that's causing this. I've never seen banding on a sky like this but I've set my 300d and 20d to 0 sharpening from new.