Alenbees CyberSync or Canon ST-E2

[borism]

Hi everyone
Happy new year.. I hope this year 2009 treats you well with health, success and lots of nice photographic goodies :D

I am in a bit of a dilemma
My apologies if this topic has been covered already, Im sure

I am ready to jump into off shoe flash photo
I was ready to purchase a 430EXII to slave to my 580EXII as master
A couple of Photo buddies have told me to take it slow and experiment with one light at the beginning, to get a flash stand with a umbrella and get the Alienbees CyberSync as it will be cheaper and easier to grow into a larger system on the long run.

A second option would be to get a ST-E2 and use my 580 as the one source light

Money is not a really big issue now as the ST-E2 cost around 175$ and the CyberSyncs will run about 140$
However, a second Canon speed light would run over 200$ against other contenders like Sigma and Vivitar and more less expensive choices .
I understand that CyberSyncs will not give ETTL, but I don't think I will be using ETTL on a portrait controlled situation anyway, correct me if Im wrong with this.

So here it is.. Can you guys help me decide what the best road is?

thank you again!
Cheers

[ZSutton]

I use Cybersyncs personally, and I love them. The only issue I have with the ST-E2 is that it will only work for Canon brand equipment; and most people will agree that you can find some pretty good off brand flash units for pretty cheap around here. The Cybersyncs will allow you to get the most out of your flash units, and I highly recommend them. Not to mention they are remote, so you can fire them even if the receiver is not visible to the transmitter

[Curtis N]

Besides cost, the pros and cons are thus:

ST-E2: E-TTL control, but limited range. The slave flash has to "see" the optical commands from the ST-E2. The ST-E2 also is designed to trigger only Canon EX Speedlites, not flash units of other brands or studio strobes (I have read that taping some contacts can convert it to a "dumb" optical trigger).

CyberSync or other radio-based system: Much better range, adaptable to most brands of flash units and studio strobes, but no E-TTL control.

[m3rdpwr]

Well for me I would get a 430EX.

Perhaps you can still find a new one or a good used one at a good price.

Having a second light can be very useful.

Indoors with portrait's I have never had a problem with Canon's wireless system.

-Mario

EDIT: On another note, later if you want two light's off-camera, the CS's work great as well...

[40Dude6aedyk]

Here is how I played out that decision:

1. I started with a 580EXII. It works great and has given me some fantastic photos.

2. Then I wanted another light source, so I looked around for something that would do both ETTL and manual and work as a master and as a slave. Also I thought that I would use radio triggers in the future at some point, despite wanting ETTL capabilities now.

I did not feel I needed to spend as much for another 580EXII, so I bought Sigma EF-530 DG Super (~ $215) and it has been great when line-of-sight and short distances were used. Also in the distant future it can be used as an ETTL master in case my 580EXII goes on the fritz (and I have a slave that understands Canon slave-ness).

3. Then I wanted to have both speedlites off-camera in a basketball gym. I tested my 2 speedlites and discovered some limitations of line-of-sight and the Canon system. In the gym, I knew I was going to use predominantly manual flash, so I ordered Cybersyncs for $200.

I think I have a flexible system that wasn't too expensive that I can use a number of different ways. I accumulated the kit over a few months as I used my equipment. In the future, I may buy AlienBee lights as well as I keep expanding. I don't think I have made any of my hardware redundant yet.

[Mark1]

If you even have a thought of going farther then 1 off camera flash I would go with the Cybers. For me, the main reason is they work with every light you may want to use. Different speedlights, or moving to studio lights, you can still use the Cybers. When of you want to get overly creative with light placement, the Ste2 may lose communication where the cybers will not.

I am waiting for the new Radio Popper JrX to be available at the end of Feb. I will be getting a full set of them.

[borism]

Thank you everyone for your great and fast response!
Very interesting info here, I haven read a lot about the Sigma EF-530 DG Super , so it behaves pretty much as a 580EX with master capabilities and all? , that is great. I'd like to hear more about this unit

Wow, looks like most people get both, as second flash And Cybersync to maintain the best of both worlds Canon ETTL and manual reliable radio triggering..

Please keep coming your views this is very enlightening :D I tough I was the only one with this kind of doubts

[MattMoore]

The ST-E2 also require line-of-sight to work well, I'd list that as a con.

[borism]

thanks

I have read about the insight view need of the Canon system, Is this an issue when placing the flash say in a soft box for example?

Will the soft box "interrupt" the communication of the light signal?

[MattMoore]

thanks

I have read about the insight view need of the Canon system, Is this an issue when placing the flash say in a soft box for example?

Will the soft box "interrupt" the communication of the light signal?

Probably best to just get a RF system and not have to worry.

Radiopopper, Skyports, Cybersyncs, or PWs are all good choices and you won't be tied down to Canon flashes (285HV is a great & inexpensive flash).

Plus learning to NOT rely on the TTL system is a great thing to learn (manual isn't as hard/bad to learn).

[borism]

.

Plus learning to NOT rely on the TTL system is a great thing to learn (manual isn't as hard/bad to learn).

Definitively, I'm planing on getting the manual thing under control.. as every strobist lecture/video I have read kind of imply that manual is a must to have consistency on the exposure.
I have seen how ETTL can "change its mind" from shot to shot when you move just a bit your framing .

Thank you for all the help, I'll go read a bit about this Sigma Super Flash, sound interesting, mean while please keep coming your suggestions, I have learned a lot in just a few post here
Thanks

[MattMoore]

...I'll go read a bit about this Sigma Super Flash, sound interesting...

???

Personally, I think your best bet is cybersyncs and 285HVs. There is not need to spend money on a flash with TTL if you're going to be setting them up manually (and yes, manual is the way to go).

[borism]

Well , I am definitively leaning toward the CyberSync option.
Im doing some math and on the long run if a keep growing a lighting setup the savings speak for themselves.

However, is kind of appealing to be able to maintain ETTL when you want it to on the future, that is what i meant by the Sigma. ;)

Id like to know, what flash do you use? what would you recommend as a good, inexpensive unit
It would be nice if it has a PC connector (I understand that CyberSync need a PC connector Or a PC to Hot Shoe adapter

Thanks :D

[ZSutton]

You can find Canon 430 EX's for pretty cheap these days. They released the Ex II a while back, so naturally, the old stock is dropping in price

[borism]

Yes , sure at 199 the 430 EX is a nice option!

As I comment on the question. is that a couple of friends recommended to invest time on one light setup first, getting my 580 off the camera with some CyderSyncs..
As the radio trigger will allow to expand the lighting options inexpensively.
My question is what is the experience with tis situation and what do you recommend.. what do you think?
Get Cybersyncs, get ST-E2, get another Canon Flash like 430?

I am eager to hear what people has done and how they get started to learn from your experience

Thank a million!

[borism]

Probably best to just get a RF system and not have to worry.

Radiopopper, Skyports, Cybersyncs, or PWs are all good choices and you won't be tied down to Canon flashes (285HV is a great & inexpensive flash).

Plus learning to NOT rely on the TTL system is a great thing to learn (manual isn't as hard/bad to learn).

Oh Matt
Love your work BTW nice web page collection

[ZSutton]

Well, I'd recommend that you play around with a single light aswell, just to be able to get creative with that. Again, I think the 430 EX is a great option for the price currently, but alot of it really depends on what you plan on using the lighting for. If you want a mobile unit, I'd recommend getting some more flash units, just to be able to experiments with those in different settings. If you're planning on building a studio of of this, I'd recommend some larger studio flash units, such as AlienBees. I love my B800 do death, but being that its AC powered, it can really limit its use

[borism]

Well, I'd recommend that you play around with a single light aswell, just to be able to get creative with that. Again, I think the 430 EX is a great option for the price currently, but alot of it really depends on what you plan on using the lighting for. If you want a mobile unit, I'd recommend getting some more flash units, just to be able to experiments with those in different settings. If you're planning on building a studio of of this, I'd recommend some larger studio flash units, such as AlienBees. I love my B800 do death, but being that its AC powered, it can really limit its use

Thanks
Well
Im no pro, I don't see myself acquiring more pro lighting in the form of studio strobes.
Most probably a couple of other flashes.
A portable setup for sure, I was reading that many guys use Vivitar, more inexpensive flashes for this type of thing.
My applications are more for personal experimenting, group shots, some portrait, but not for real professional application.
Are you suggesting maybe get a 430 and slave it to the 580? that was my original thought but a few friends started to suggest to stay away the light remote canon system and go radio trigger with CyberSync, that is the original reason of this post :confused:

thanks for your input again

[ZSutton]

Thanks
Well
Im no pro, I don't see myself acquiring more pro lighting in the form of studio strobes.
Most probably a couple of other flashes.
A portable setup for sure, I was reading that many guys use Vivitar, more inexpensive flashes for this type of thing.
My applications are more for personal experimenting, group shots, some portrait, but not for real professional application.
Are you suggesting maybe get a 430 and slave it to the 580? that was my original thought but a few friends started to suggest to stay away the light remote canon system and go radio trigger with CyberSync, that is the original reason of this post :confused:

thanks for your input again

Oh, I'm definitely suggesting the cybersyncs. I'm just recommending stuff for your next flash unit

[borism]

Great
thanks
Since this is just a hobby to me, I just want to try hard to not make common mistakes and learn the most from all the experience around

[MattMoore]

...Im no pro, I don't see myself acquiring more pro lighting in the form of studio strobes.

You will be surprised how much you can do with simple strobes (David Hobby, Joe McNally, strobist.com (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31454864@N00/favorites/) etc) with practice/experimentation (and ultimately knowledge).

Equipment (i.e. studiostrobes) doesn't make you a pro; knowing what to use, when to use it, & how to use it gets you a lot closer than throwing money at a problem and hoping technology does the work for you.

[borism]

You will be surprised how much you can do with simple strobes (David Hobby, Joe McNally, strobist.com (http://www.flickr.com/photos/31454864@N00/favorites/) etc) with practice/experimentation (and ultimately knowledge).

Equipment (i.e. studiostrobes) doesn't make you a pro; knowing what to use, when to use it, & how to use it gets you a lot closer than throwing money at a problem and hoping technology does the work for you.


Well said
That is what i plan to do, learn the most I can.
Don't get me wrong, I do take this very seriously and spend time learning and practicing.
What i mean is that I don't see my self building a stdio in my garage for example , with a bunch of stands and strobes.
I feel very inspired by the strobist.com and all the series experimenting g, that is what I'd like to learn at this time.
I do however want to make the best use of my resources, in this case make the best purchase possible.
Your web has some very neat pictures and PP.. congrats BTW, love your stuff

So far my conclusions are:
1 Get CyberSync one transmitter and one receiver
2 Get stand and umbrella
3 Practice a lot and find the need for extra strobes/flashes a la Vivitar etc

Any more comments?
Appreciated

[MattMoore]

...I love my B800 do death, but being that its AC powered, it can really limit its use

You mean you don't like lugging a Vagabond everywhere? :p

...What i mean is that I don't see my self building a stdio in my garage for example , with a bunch of stands and strobes.

Studios are okay, but very clinical (but well controlled).

The world is your studio; go to a park, borrow a mechanics garage, use a cosmopolitan alleyway, go to the beach, etc.

The real world makes a much more interesting backdrop than a roll of seamless paper or a tie-dyed muslin (in most cases).


So far my conclusions are:
1 Get CyberSync one transmitter and one receiver
2 Get stand and umbrella
3 Practice a lot and find the need for extra strobes/flashes a la Vivitar etc


Yes, be sure to get ankle weights or sandbags for your lightstands...the wind shows no mercy for unsecured lightstands.

And as money allows get another flash and receiver, and start looking into gels and experimenting with colored light (its amazing).

[borism]

Studios are okay, but very clinical (but well controlled). Agreed

The world is your studio; That is a nice way to put what I think :D agreed





Yes, be sure to get ankle weights or sandbags for your lightstands...the wind shows no mercy for unsecured lightstands.

That I didn't think about, even and when I knew I had to get weight to make the stands stable.

Any suggestions? I've seen people recommending sport ankle weights from Target and so

[Titus213]

I have Cybersyncs and really appreciate the ease of use and dependable performance from them.

Have you considered a pc to hotshoe (http://www.flashzebra.com/products/0115/index.shtml) and a 15 foot PC cable (http://www.flashzebra.com/screwlock_pc_fivemeter/0034.shtml) to get your flash off camera? Cheap, effective, great for learning. Then grow into radio triggers like Cybersyncs.

[MattMoore]

Any suggestions? I've seen people recommending sport ankle weights from Target and so

I got mine from Walmart.

Have you considered a pc to hotshoe and a 15 foot PC cable to get your flash off camera? Cheap, effective, great for learning. Then grow into radio triggers like Cybersyncs.

+1

Optical slaves are another cheap/wireless option (except you'll still need a flash to trigger them).

[borism]

I got mine from Walmart.

Goot it;)

[borism]

I have Cybersyncs and really appreciate the ease of use and dependable performance from them.

Have you considered a pc to hotshoe (http://www.flashzebra.com/products/0115/index.shtml) and a 15 foot PC cable (http://www.flashzebra.com/screwlock_pc_fivemeter/0034.shtml) to get your flash off camera? Cheap, effective, great for learning. Then grow into radio triggers like Cybersyncs.

TITUS
I over looked your post sorry
I have considered but since I was going to buy a 430, my friend have being telling me about the radio CyberSync instead
So that got my head turning really fast, and definitively the commodity of being able to move is something I feel I will be happy to pay for

thanks

[Titus213]

Then I would recommend the Cybersyncs. I really do like mine, they are just not cheap. Effective and the best price/performance I think you'll find in radio triggers, but not cheap by my accounting.

[MattMoore]

Then I would recommend the Cybersyncs. I really do like mine, they are just not cheap. Effective and the best price/performance I think you'll find in radio triggers, but not cheap by my accounting.

Cheaper than PWs/Skyports/RPs, more reliable than Cactus V2s.

[borism]

Then I would recommend the Cybersyncs. I really do like mine, they are just not cheap. Effective and the best price/performance I think you'll find in radio triggers, but not cheap by my accounting.


I hear you

Can I ask you what other less expensive flash would you suggest to use next?

[MattMoore]

Can I ask you what other less expensive flash would you suggest to use next?

define "less expensive", the 285HV is widely considered the smokin-est deal for budget flashes (all things considered)

[borism]

YES
I have seen many recommending/using the Vivitar 285, at 889$ looks like the most inexpensive, are they reliable ?
Do you use them?
Does it have a PC connector? or do I need a PC to hot shoe adaptor?
Other options?

Just looking at different avenues..
sorry for the question bombardment

Again Thanks

[MattMoore]

YES
I have seen many recommending/using the Vivitar 285, at 889$ looks like the most inexpensive, are they reliable ?
Do you use them?
Does it have a PC connector? or do I need a PC to hot shoe adaptor?
Other options?

Just looking at different avenues..
sorry for the question bombardment

Again Thanks

$889?

Their $90-ish brand new

I have used them (borrowed from others), will be next flash when I need another one.

They need a PC/hotshoe adapter (but then again, so does my 430EX) to be used with cybersyncs.

[borism]

$889?

Their $90-ish brand new


jaja sorry I meant 89$

[Titus213]

The Vivitar is a great flash but the cable it comes with is not the best. Our son found a replacement foot for his and it now has a PC connection on it. I would probably suggest getting a PC to hot shoe adapter (http://www.flashzebra.com/hotshoes-shoes/0065.shtml) and use the cable that comes with the Cybersync receiver.

[borism]

The Vivitar is a great flash but the cable it comes with is not the best. Our son found a replacement foot for his and it now has a PC connection on it. I would probably suggest getting a PC to hot shoe adapter (http://www.flashzebra.com/hotshoes-shoes/0065.shtml) and use the cable that comes with the Cybersync receiver.

Thank you TITUS
Thats is great info there
Now that we are at this
What would be a nice value flash stand with umbrella kit?

[Titus213]

I have used the Impacts from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/425220-REG/Impact_DFUMK_Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html) and found them decent for the price.

[borism]

I have used the Impacts from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/425220-REG/Impact_DFUMK_Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html) and found them decent for the price.

Wow this is great, I was looking at Amazon, and one umbrella, stand and adapter would run almost 60$
These are shoot through and bounce and , a set of two!
this is a great value

Thank you TITUS

[chuck knox]

I wouldn't go with the 430EX to slave off the 580EXII. From what I got from your post is that you want to go with an off camera flash setup. With the 580 as a master and the 430 as slave you will have the 580 on camera when it does come time for a second light source. I current have a 580EXII and a 430EX speedlight and fire them both with an Ebay transmitter/receiver and an Alienbees cybersync unit. When I move indoors to shoot and can add my AB400 as a third light the three units work flawlessly with the two transmitters and the AB400 acting as slave.

[borism]

Thank you Chuck
I was wondering, nobody with a Canon system chimed in ..Until you wrote your experience
I have made my mind to go with the CyberSyncs.
Later I might even get a second Canon Flash, but for now Im going with the CyberSyncs and maybe a Vivitar 258

Thanks a lot for sharing