Canon 60D Rumors Rumors Rumors

[griptape]

Very true. Is the 60D ever going to happen? I say NO. I'm probably wrong, because eventually it will be profitable to release an in-between camera that sits between the 50D and the 7D, but until Canon thinks they can make more money selling a 50D with video for a few hundred less than a 7D (otherwise they would be cannibalizing 7D sales) then the 50D is here to stay. I don't know why it's so hard for people to accept that the update for the 50D is the 7D. You want more FPS, more megapixels, better ISO performance, video? Yeah, Canon sells that camera, and it's called the 7D.
While I may not have been entirely correct, the fact remains that an UPGRADE to the 50D is the 7D, and not the 60D, unless the only upgrade criteria to you is movie mode and an articulating screen, while downgrading the still camera functions.

[arkphotos]

They read your survey and said "hello, have you heard of the SEVEN D?"

Ha - yes you are correct . I may have to save up for the 7D (but dont really want to pay for the AF system or weather sealing).

In my defense, the survey was shortly before the 7D was released - when this thread was a bit smaller.

[alt4852]

Ha - yes you are correct . I may have to save up for the 7D (but dont really want to pay for the AF system or weather sealing).

In my defense, the survey was shortly before the 7D was released - when this thread was a bit smaller.

haha, yea i was also going to comment about the humor in how you perfectly described the 7D. :p

[PixelPusher]

While I may not have been entirely correct, the fact remains that an UPGRADE to the 50D is the 7D, and not the 60D, unless the only upgrade criteria to you is movie mode and an articulating screen, while downgrading the still camera functions.

Wow, you hit that nail on the head!

Been waiting for over a year to make a decision, going from a Rebel XTi to 7D now instead.

Ordered the 7D yesterday, loyalty program. Yee, ha!:D

[dontcallmeash]

all i really wanted was microadjustment and AF that was at least on par with what nikon will likely offer in the d95.

at least it has an articulating screen, so i can be distracted by shiny things. buuut, i keep wondering if they had killed the damn articulating screen, the cost savings could have paid for another DIGIC 4 processor to get fps above that of my ancient d200 with its CCD sensor... and maybe also throw in MA.

fawkers.

[Joaaso]

They read your survey and said "hello, have you heard of the SEVEN D?"
well, what I wanted was also pretty much what arkphotos described (expect I'd gladly see the sensor reduced to 15MP) but the "hello, have you heard of 7D"-answer is just not a good enough answer -its a stupid answer really cause 7D has alot more features than those -and they cost money, and I'm not paying extra for 8fps 2xdigic4, 1D-type AF etc when I have absolutely no need for it..! 7D is quite clearly spec'ed towards action/sport, but there are other types of photographhy than that, and I just dont see why they couldnt have spec'ed the 60D more towards those in order to differentiate it from the 7D, instead of just dumbing it down massively..

Before 60D I had to choose between overkill (7D) or underkill (550D). Now its overkill (7D), underkill (550D) or slightly less underkill (60D).. Doesnt help me one bit..

[PixelPusher]

well, what I wanted was also pretty much what arkphotos described (expect I'd gladly see the sensor reduced to 15MP) but the "hello, have you heard of 7D"-answer is just not a good enough answer -its a stupid answer really cause 7D has alot more features than those -and they cost money, and I'm not paying extra for 8fps 2xdigic4, 1D-type AF etc when I have absolutely no need for it..! 7D is quite clearly spec'ed towards action/sport, but there are other types of photographhy than that, and I just dont see why they couldnt have spec'ed the 60D more towards those in order to differentiate it from the 7D, instead of just dumbing it down massively..

Before 60D I had to choose between overkill (7D) or underkill (550D). Now its overkill (7D), underkill (550D) or slightly less underkill (60D).. Doesnt help me one bit..

Maybe the 50D is a good fit for you. Have seen some pretty good prices on those.

[Luminodio]

well, what I wanted was also pretty much what arkphotos described (expect I'd gladly see the sensor reduced to 15MP) but the "hello, have you heard of 7D"-answer is just not a good enough answer -its a stupid answer really cause 7D has alot more features than those -and they cost money, and I'm not paying extra for 8fps 2xdigic4, 1D-type AF etc when I have absolutely no need for it..! 7D is quite clearly spec'ed towards action/sport, but there are other types of photographhy than that, and I just dont see why they couldnt have spec'ed the 60D more towards those in order to differentiate it from the 7D, instead of just dumbing it down massively..

Before 60D I had to choose between overkill (7D) or underkill (550D). Now its overkill (7D), underkill (550D) or slightly less underkill (60D).. Doesnt help me one bit..
7D users wish the AF system was on-par with the 1-series. The 7D is great crop camera, but I think people toot it's horn in excess.

As far as your qualms with the 60D, I'm sorry you have them but that isn't gonna change the legacy of the xxD series back to the pre-7D generations; not one bit.

I'm not a 60D fan by any stretch. I saw all of this coming; the only thing that surprised me is that Canon actually went "out there" to give the xxD body legacy a present place in their current marketing strategy for the 1.6x crop cameras.

Aesthetically speaking, the 60D has to be one of ugliest dSLRs I have ever seen.

[Joaaso]

Maybe the 50D is a good fit for you. Have seen some pretty good prices on those.
one word; video.. (plus ISO-performance wasnt to much of a step up from 450D for me)
I saw all of this coming; the only thing that surprised me is that Canon actually went "out there" to give the xxD body legacy a present place in their current marketing strategy for the 1.6x crop cameras.
me too.. some down-spec'ing compared to 50D on certain areas, wouldnt have surprised me, but not this... and even then; its ok that they lower its threshold, but not when they lower the roof as well..

[Luminodio]

one word; video.. (plus ISO-performance wasnt to much of a step up from 450D for me)

me too.. some down-spec'ing compared to 50D on certain areas, wouldnt have surprised me, but not this... and even then; its ok that they lower its threshold, but not when they lower the roof as well..
The ergonomic change was probably the biggest priority for Canon. Aesthetics and ergonomics are the biggest thing the consumer market notices as far as differentiating one camera option from another. So you can obviously tell demographic Canon was basing their modifications on.

It's too bad really. The Sony SLT A55 punishes the Canon 60D on paper and despite some small qualms with the A55, it is a dangerously competitive option when you take into consideration the scope of options that Sony offers (AF CZ glass anyone?).

Canon flopped on a camera body that I honestly didn't think would come to fruition so it honestly doesn't effect my outlook on Canon in a negative way. The fact that they went "out there" to keep the xxD legacy alive means that they may go "out there" with their flagship full-frame body release -- the 1Ds IV.

This would be the first official response that Canon makes to all the FF competition it has acquired (the 5D II was in production long before the D700 and D3 hit the market some years back). While Canon may reserve any "revolutionary" changes for a camera body legacy for the prosumer market rather the professional, that doesn't phase me. Just so long as Canon legimately responds within the next 14 months with one body or another.

The way I see it, the Canon 5D III will have the following:
- 100% VF coverage (5D had 96%, 5D II had 98%; 2% increase is inevitable)
- 9 Point Cross-type AF (The same amount of cross-types as the 60D, but potentially using the 7D AF system)
- 4.5fps

I can only hope that the 5D III can perform across the entire dynamic range -- not banding in the shadows at low ISO settings. That would be umm, fantastic.

The rest doesn't matter to me, but I would like to see a dedicated MLU button on the 5D III for the sake of sanity. Continuous AF in movie mode would be nice, but is far from a necessity to me. I'm more for improvements in still-shot performance even it means putting advancements in movie mode at a stand-still. I don't like the idea of Canon prioritizing the whole motion capture aspect of their newly established bodies over advancements in what a dSLR is traditionally used for: to take pictures.

[MrWho]

I don't like the videocentrism either. Canon seemed to prioritize move mode on the 60D and it seems like they went out of their way to find ways to dumb down the camera from the 50D. I saw many posts in other sections about how people expected a $1100 7D when in reality the early posts about 60D rumors were about leaving the 50D the same, just adding video. Canon COULD have done that but instead decided to turn the XXD series into a testbed for future Rebel models.

I had mentioned earlier that the 60D might be outclassed the day it was released and so far that seems likely with the A55 and coming D7000. Nikon offered innovation for the lower end bodies with the D3100 and took a serious effort to improve the still aspect. Sony put some nice specs into their A55 (and I would LOVE me some AF CZ glass!) and it looks like a serious change in direction compared to what Sony was previously doing. It just seems odd that when other companies are moving forward, Canon decides to downgrade it's newest release. It's either going to be bought because it's a Canon product, or someone is going to be captivated by the swivel screen and buy it as an $1100 P&S.

After all the discussion trying to convince naysayers that there would be a 60D, it's kind of painful to see what it has become. So many hard buttons removed, I might actually have the same amount of hard buttons and filters available on a $450 superzoom.

[sth_]

Interestingly, the Nikon D3100 and the Sony A55 are far more "video-optimized" than the 60D. ;)

I think people wouldn't complain about the repositioning of the 60D if Canon kept the metal body and the seperate joystick. Everything else is still well within the spec-range of previous X0D cameras.

[Joaaso]

Canon seemed to prioritize move mode on the 60D
umm..apart from the swivel-lcd, what new did they bring to the movie mode..?

[reng2009]

Interestingly, the Nikon D3100 and the Sony A55 are far more "video-optimized" than the 60D. ;)

I think people wouldn't complain about the repositioning of the 60D if Canon kept the metal body and the seperate joystick. Everything else is still well within the spec-range of previous X0D cameras.

If Canon kept the metal shell, it wouldn't be a consumer camera. It would be heavier and more expensive. The street price for the 60D should be under $1,000 and that's important.

[blackshadow]

Why is this still in the rumours section? The camera has been announced.

[Luminodio]

Why is this still in the rumours section? The camera has been announced.
They have an announcement thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=922459&page=54) with all speculation set aside, mate.

[MrWho]

umm..apart from the swivel-lcd, what new did they bring to the movie mode..?

They added a fully customizable (right word?) movie mode with volume control, selectable frame rates and all. They put the same level of video in the 60D that appears on the 5D2 along with decreasing the FPS by 1.2 FPS when the T2i took a very small hit to FPS and buffer size while the 60D appears to have tanked in the continuous shooting dept. Also instead of doing something innovative, they add a bunch of kiddie toys like filters. Also I think the AF has been downgraded, I was lead to believe the 50D has all cross-type AF sensors while the 60D doesn't, correct me if I'm wrong though. They put more effort into the T2i than they did the 60D in terms of still images.

[Luminodio]

They added a fully customizable (right word?) movie mode with volume control, selectable frame rates and all. They put the same level of video in the 60D that appears on the 5D2 along with decreasing the FPS by 1.2 FPS when the T2i took a very small hit to FPS and buffer size while the 60D appears to have tanked in the continuous shooting dept. Also instead of doing something innovative, they add a bunch of kiddie toys like filters. Also I think the AF has been downgraded, I was lead to believe the 50D has all cross-type AF sensors while the 60D doesn't, correct me if I'm wrong though. They put more effort into the T2i than they did the 60D in terms of still images.
It does use cross-type AF points at f-stops f/5.6 and higher. I'm wondering if the 60D cross-type AF points will be sensitive to f/2.8. If not, it appears that the AF is almost identical to the 50D on paper.

[MrWho]

Probably not. I think they're going to stay sensitive at 5.6 with the center one being 2.8. Less cross-type though, closer AF to the Rebel series than the 50D from what I read.

[Luminodio]

Probably not. I think they're going to stay sensitive at 5.6 with the center one being 2.8. Less cross-type though, closer AF to the Rebel series than the 50D from what I read.
The 60D is the feature-flamboyant dSLR camera body I never wanted to see Canon release.

[tkbslc]

Why would you think the AF would be worse than the 50D? It is the same AF as the 40D/50D - All f5.6 Cross type sensors and the middle sensor has an extra X type f2.8 high precision sensor.

[Luminodio]

Why would you think the AF would be worse than the 50D? It is the same AF as the 40D/50D - All f5.6 Cross type sensors and the middle sensor has an extra X type f2.8 high precision sensor.
That was my observation as well. I had forgotten that those were the same AF specs as the 40D though.

...

What upgrades were there from the 40D to 50D then besides a new LCD rear display (with higher resolution) and LV enhancements?

[robonrome]

What upgrades were there from the 40D to 50D then besides a new LCD rear display (with higher resolution) and LV enhancements?

the all important one....AF microadjust!

[tkbslc]

...

What upgrades were there from the 40D to 50D then besides a new LCD rear display (with higher resolution) and LV enhancements?

15mp
better LCD
ISO 6400 + 12800 options
AF Micro Adjustment

And that is about it. The 50D had almost as many complaints as this 60D because it wasn't enough of an upgrade to most.

[robonrome]

15mp
better LCD
ISO 6400 + 12800 options
AF Micro Adjustment

And that is about it. The 50D had almost as many complaints as this 60D because it wasn't enough of an upgrade to most.


you forgot more noise:p

[MrWho]

Why would you think the AF would be worse than the 50D? It is the same AF as the 40D/50D - All f5.6 Cross type sensors and the middle sensor has an extra X type f2.8 high precision sensor.

I remember reading somewhere it had fewer cross-type points, might have been back when everything was still a rumor.

What upgrades were there from the 40D to 50D then besides a new LCD rear display (with higher resolution) and LV enhancements?

At least performance-wise nothing was really worse than the 40D. There are already people calling it the high point of the XXD line, the 60D isn't as much of an upgrade to the 50D as it is a new line in spirit. To be honest, it would be fine if Canon marketed it as a new line but calling it an upgrade to the 50D feels just wrong, really nothing else to call it though since Canon would never give it a single digit name.

[hqqns]

I feel the 60d is a cross-grade from the 50d. It's better in some regards, same in some more and worse in others. Since the 50D will be cheaper than the 60D, I know what I would recommend. Save your money and buy a lens haha

[sth_]

Probably not. I think they're going to stay sensitive at 5.6 with the center one being 2.8. Less cross-type though, closer AF to the Rebel series than the 50D from what I read.
The AF system is exactly the same as on the 50d, no change here.
The rebel series only has one cross-type sensor.

[Lore]

Aesthetically speaking, the 60D has to be one of ugliest dSLRs I have ever seen.

agreed.

[MrWho]

I feel the 60d is a cross-grade from the 50d. It's better in some regards, same in some more and worse in others. Since the 50D will be cheaper than the 60D, I know what I would recommend. Save your money and buy a lens haha

Actually (and honestly speaking here) forget buying new.... NEVER pay a premium for tech because it's a new release. Buy refurb and spill the extra cash all into lenses.... heck, buy a refurb or used 40D and spend the rest on lenses. That's the way it SHOULD be done :cool:

The AF system is exactly the same as on the 50d, no change here.
The rebel series only has one cross-type sensor.

I remember reading something that made the AF system sound closer, not the same as, but closer to the Rebel than the 50D, my bad if I'm wrong though. It seems like Canon felt the 50D was too close to the 7D for some inexplicable reason.

[sth_]

I remember reading something that made the AF system sound closer, not the same as, but closer to the Rebel than the 50D, my bad if I'm wrong though. It seems like Canon felt the 50D was too close to the 7D for some inexplicable reason.
Do you have a link for that? I've read nothing like that so far. Everything I read indicates that the AF hasn't changed from the 40D/50D (the 10D/20D/30D had a similar system to what is now used on the rebel cameras). The only thing the 60D is missing is micro-adjustment (which the 50D had).

60D/50D/40D: 9 cross-type AF points, center point additionally sensitive with lenses of F2.8 or faster
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos60d/page2.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos50d/page2.asp

Rebels (XSi - T2i): 8 line sensors (outer focus points) + 1 cross-type center point, additionally sensitive with lenses of F2.8
The XTI had a similar setup but was missing the extra sensitivity for f/2.8 or faster.
Original rebel and rebel XS had a 7 poimt AF system.


All in all I think the camera is much closer related to the 50D than to the rebel models. It is a step down from the 50D in some points but that's because what was once the X0D-line has now essentially been split into two lines, one slightly above (7D) and one slightly below (60D).

[Joaaso]

after being very disappointed at first, I have to admit that I'm not that sceptical anymore.. firstly because I found out that even though the WB-button is gone, you could use the set-button as WB-button.. there's still one button less which could have been used for other useful things perhaps, but.. well.. its not THAT bad anymore at least.. and then I found out that the minimum shutterspeed still was 1/8000 after all (Canon Norway said 1/4000 -typo obviously).. I dont care about the plastic body and SD cards (I've already invested in them since I have 450D) and I kinda like the size-reduction, so that leaves me with only two real issues; only one Custom mode on the program wheel and the lack of MFA (which might be fixed if many enough of us follow this guy's example (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,127.0.html) and sends canon an email asking for it).. Then of course it's frustrating to see them giving noob-modes priority instead of pushing the camera further (like I'd wish they had added better AF for liveview and video, and maybe pushed the ISO-performance even a bit further) but in the end I guess I can manage to ignore those things.. Wether I end up buying it or not eventually, I don't know -I have to chew on it a bit more, see how the grip and joystick feels irl, where the price ends up, etc..

[MrWho]

Do you have a link for that?

It surfaced back in the rumor days but that was incorrect info, the first link proves it.

[vipergts831]

Just got back from the canon expo. Really great enviroment. For those that have some time tomorrow before 3pm head down to the javits center. Its free. I was able to use the 60D while there. My initial take: great cheap video slr. The screen will help a lot in that aspect. However, i wouldnt put much pressure on it. Build is slightly bigger than a rebel to me. Very light body. Feels cheap to be honest. Here are some shots off my iphone from the event. Ill be there tomorrow at 12 for another seminar:



60D in my hands:



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/4951832063_f02f1004c4_b.jpg



Angle shot of the 60D being used by another person:



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/4951842697_ca1728e8c0_b.jpg



Entrance to Canon Expo:



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/4952468530_f16d89e5fe_b.jpg



This is the model booth. Here they had a profesional shooter using the 1DIV. Showing how easy the work flow can be and "the brilliance" of the 1DIV



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4951884291_4d6bfb9545_b.jpg



I thought this was pretty cool. Every few minutes a model walks down this runway. On the sides are three rows of various different canon models with different canon lens's so you can shoot the models. At first i thought this was an acutaly runway show until i got closer and saw the cameras held by a leash to the bars :lol:



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/4952460300_6a40f11653_b.jpg



Great event too bad its only every 5 years.