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inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:48
I've been contacted by a model with a rather prominent nose. While I haven't said no, I haven't said 'yes' either. I'm playing the 'too busy' scheme, for now.

So, my question to you all is, how to deal with a model with a prominent nose? How does one photographically make it less prominent, without not showing her face, or having her face turned backwards or away, for every single shot? I think one method would be to capture the picture from a higher angle. Any others? Anyone have some examples to share?

I'm sure there's a way to liquify, and 'sculpt' the nose in post, but, just don't feel that the effort is worth it, for me.

Anyhow, just curious. And please don't be a jerk, if you respond. There's plenty of that around here these days anyway.

Cheers,
m.

FlyingPhotog
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:50
Head on and back up...long lens will forshorten the features.

70-200 @ 200
300 f/2.8

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:51
^^Makes sense!

Pete
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:52
I guess really that there's a couple of options here.

1) Look at her portfolio and see what's she's put in there and go along the same kinds of lines.

2) Talk to her about the shots she wants and do what she wants.

3) Think about using a longer FL and shooting face on. Hope that the natural compression effect of a telephoto lessens the lessens the effect of the aforsaid prominence.

FlyingPhotog
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:52
It's yields the opposite effect of getting in close with a WA...

Kagemaru
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:53
Does she have a wide nose or a long nose. If it's long, just shoot head on.. If it's wide, then well, maybe don't shoot her LOL.

Pete
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:56
... If it's wide, then well, maybe don't shoot her LOL.

Well, that would be the easy way out. :D

But then it wouldn't be a challenge.....!

And without challenges, we wouldn't learn.

johncolby
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 14:58
I'll usually put it on a new layer and scale it down a few percent in Free Transform. Then just use a layer mask to blend it back in. For noses that have more of that bulbous end thing going on, I'll do a quick tap with the "Pucker" function of Liquify. Both of these are actually really easy and take less than a minute after you do them a few times. Especially the Pucker technique - it's really magic for that type of nose!

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:09
How to explain it...it's wide, and long as the same time. Appreciate the responses...and while I appreciate a good challenge, I'm just not sure it's the one for me, yet. Thus, I asked the question that I did.

FlyingPhotog
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:10
johncolby's technique sounds good but one needs to ask:

Is she comfortable with her nose and does she want an electronic nose job to begin with?

johncolby
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:14
Is she comfortable with her nose and does she want an electronic nose job to begin with?

Definitely true and important! Same goes with beauty marks on the face...it's so easy to delete them it's easy to get a little trigger happy sometimes. But the model may want it there, and plus, anyone who sees the photo and knows the person will know that something was done.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:15
johncolby's technique sounds good but one needs to ask:

Is she comfortable with her nose and does she want an electronic nose job to begin with?

Well, I don't know....???

I don't even know how to ask her that question, without being brutally upfront. Thus, I've been shying away from it. I'm not trying to be mean, either...along those same lines.

Perry Ge
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:30
Liquify tool :cool:

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:38
Liquify tool :cool:

Hey...I said that already. :)

I would like to do it without all the tricks of PS...if at all I do work with her. Who knows.

Perry Ge
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:42
Yeah I was joking - you've gotten some pretty good advice already. Perhaps crop her head off all the images :lol:. (Still joking - again, better advice above :p)

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:43
Haha...I'll do a theme like Adam (women with no faces), and just give him the images, for his port. How's that?

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:45
I'll usually put it on a new layer and scale it down a few percent in Free Transform. Then just use a layer mask to blend it back in. For noses that have more of that bulbous end thing going on, I'll do a quick tap with the "Pucker" function of Liquify. Both of these are actually really easy and take less than a minute after you do them a few times. Especially the Pucker technique - it's really magic for that type of nose!

Thanks for the tips. I figured there's a way to do it in PS...and well, you just clarified some more of what needs to be done. Appreciated.

BTW, have an example of a before/after? Just curious.

Perry Ge
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:46
Or a masked theme - luchadores glamour :lol:. Perhaps the old 'paper bag over the head' trick.

OK I'mma shut up now.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:49
Or a masked theme

See, now that's thinkin' right there. Good idea.

arnie12
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:49
Shoot the portraits with a UWA and blame the nose on the lens.
:cool:

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:51
I guess really that there's a couple of options here.

1) Look at her portfolio and see what's she's put in there and go along the same kinds of lines.

2) Talk to her about the shots she wants and do what she wants.

3) Think about using a longer FL and shooting face on. Hope that the natural compression effect of a telephoto lessens the lessens the effect of the aforsaid prominence.

Thanks Pete. I've looked in her Port...and most pictures that I saw, weren't, well, flattering. That is the unfortunate part...and the reason why I haven't said no, or yes. I'm on the fence.

I will talk to her, now that I've got some good tips from you all...and see what, if anything, becomes of this.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:52
Shoot the portraits with a UWA and blame the nose on the lens.
:cool:

Ummm...let's not, and say we did. :)

How ya been, buddy? Long time no hear?

Ross McT.
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 15:56
Shoot slightly from above. Another option is to angle her nose down a touch. (be careful not to create a double chin by over doing it or posing her in a masculine fashion)
Make sure that the brim of her nose doesn't exceed into the cheeks profile or cast a large shadow across her face.
A soft light will help bring up the shadows a touch and help.

M Powered
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 17:24
Shoot her upside down. LOL

Kagemaru
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 17:32
Just be honest with her. Tell her that her nose is too big. I do it all the time. Some models just aren't cut out for certain types of modeling.. you should see some of the girls that hit me up for beauty work, yikes!

airfrogusmc
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 17:35
Head on and back up...long lens will forshorten the features.

70-200 @ 200
300 f/2.8

And flat lighting (butterfly)...Long lens to help with the foreshortening and flat lighting to help with making shorter shadows. Want to make something look longer or have more texture use a light that extenuates shadows.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 17:35
^^ Kesler, Dave, What am I gonna go with the two of you?...:lol: Can't take you boys anywhere! :lol:

Ross, thanks for the tips. Makes sense.

One other thing that I learned is that she's not a 'model' per se, she's a production manager, for some kinda company...so, at this point, I feel it may not happen, anyway.

Thanks again...good info., should I ever run into this situation again.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 17:36
And flat lighting (butterfly)...Long lens to help with the foreshortening and flat lighting to help with making shorter shadows. Want to make something look longer or have more texture use a light that extenuates shadows.

Appreciate that, too!

Hermes
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 17:49
Some Basics

Avoid use loop lighting - stick with either quite flat head-on/butterfly lighting or Rembrandt/half lighting (basically avoid having the shadow outline of the nose visible in shots).

Use classic beauty focal lengths (200mm+ is best for headshots).

Don't let the line of the nose protrude from beyond the far cheek.

Make sure none of the hair-lights/accent-lights spill onto the nose.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 18:46
^^Good tips. Thanks.

M Powered
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 18:54
Or you can have her pay you. Or tell her you can't use her until spring when its allergy season. At least then you can use her to possibly sell a tearsheet for Nasonex. LOL

Kagemaru
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 18:55
Or you can have her pay you. Or tell her you can't use her until spring when its allergy season. At least then you can use her to possibly sell a tearsheet for Nasonex. LOL

LOL!

Kagemaru
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 18:55
^^ Kesler, Dave, What am I gonna go with the two of you?...:lol: Can't take you boys anywhere! :lol:

Ross, thanks for the tips. Makes sense.

One other thing that I learned is that she's not a 'model' per se, she's a production manager, for some kinda company...so, at this point, I feel it may not happen, anyway.

Thanks again...good info., should I ever run into this situation again.

We're giving you honest, real world advice, duder.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:09
I'm not denyin' that, Dave...it's just how you guys phrase things. It's funny, but lurid, at the same time. ;)

Or you can have her pay you. Or tell her you can't use her until spring when its allergy season. At least then you can use her to possibly sell a tearsheet for Nasonex. LOL

Thanks Kesler. I will see how it goes...if I do it at all. It is a challenge, yes...do I want to take the challenge...that's something that I'm not sure about, yet.

tkoutdoor
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:12
Well, I don't know....???

I don't even know how to ask her that question, without being brutally upfront. Thus, I've been shying away from it. I'm not trying to be mean, either...along those same lines.How bout something like this...

In photography there are some techniques we can use to exaggerate features or other techniques we can use to make other features less prominent. You might use an example something like... for people with wide round faces we could do "X" and for other features we do "Y". Then... "Do you have any unique features that you'd like me to shoot in a special way? It's all "you" in the end, these techniques don't look artificial, but as photographers we try not to combine some focal lengths with certain features in order to keep the lens from distorting a person's characteristics..." Blame it on the lenses. We know that some lenses can exaggerate things so we look out for the customer.

I said something like that to a friend of mine with a large nose and he said, "Are you saying I have a big nose?" I said, "Are you saying you don't?" He said, "Ahh, good answer!"

Once you have the response from the person I'd still shoot with the things it takes to diminish the feature. I'd just know whether or not I could talk about it openly or not and I might have them look at what's being shot to see how they like the effect once it can be talked about. I've also heard that lighting can be used to accentuate or diminish features based on what's lit or not. No specifics come to mind, but someone here will probably have some lighting tips too. EDIT: Ahh, I see the lighting tips have already been made.

charlesu
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:33
LONG lens, keep the nose from breaking the plane of the cheek. As you shoot, pay attention to when it looks good (positive reinforcement) and bad (discourage the look).

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:35
thanks tko. It's all valid, and there's good tips in this thread, for sure. Hopefully, if someone else is faced with the same challenge, they may look back to it. Ever person is different, and I understand that whole-heartedly. Just a matter of capturing their beauty in a different way. She's in Tampa, so, I have time to respond..since I won't be down that way, for a while...till then, I'll read some more. ;)

LONG lens, keep the nose from breaking the plane of the cheek. As you shoot, pay attention to when it looks good (positive reinforcement) and bad (discourage the look).
Thanks Charles...seems like the concensus is long lens. I guess the 300 F4l IS would be the one that I'd use. While the 70-200 sounds nice, I feel I could get away with the 300 as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here?

Kagemaru
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:37
Does she have an MM port? I wanna see this thing.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:39
I'll PM you...as long as you don't get 'scared' this time. mmkay? ;)

airfrogusmc
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:43
Again keep the nose pointed straight back to camera, long lens and butterfly lighting and keep the main LOW just a bit 2 ft or so over camera and SOFT light.

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:45
Again keep the nose pointed straight back to camera, long lens and butterfly lighting and keep the main LOW just a bit 2 ft or so over camera and SOFT light.

Got it...check! Thanks! I'm going to see if I can find someone willing to let me use their studio, next time I'm in Tampa. That's the only way I would be able to do this...reliably...cause speedlights bounced into white umbrellas at low power, and one in a softbox -- I don't feel that they are gonna cut it...as far as 'soft' goes. I will play around, and if I can find a studio, even better! ;)

Kagemaru
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:45
I'll PM you...as long as you don't get 'scared' this time. mmkay? ;)

scared as in creeped out? ok..

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 19:53
^^Sure, that too! :lol:

Cathpah
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 22:57
just go for it. It's a challenge!

I'm also being commissioned to shoot someone with a relatively prominent nose in the coming weeks, but she's 100% aware and cool about it, so I will at least be able to communicate about it with her during the shoot.

I would imagine given she is a woman in today's society, she is probably aware of the size of her nose (has maaaaybe looked in the mirror once or twice) and would certainly be understanding if you brought it up. That, or don't say a damn thing and regard this as a good challenge.

Either way, let us know how it goes and godspeed. :p

inthedeck
9th of January 2009 (Fri), 23:05
Thanks Jeff. She's in Tampa...I'm in Saint Augustine. Once the wife and I go out that way...it may just happen. I'm not 'afraid' per se...was just askin' for suggestions from the crew! And they provided plenty! She knows a model that I worked with out that way, and that's why she contacted me...so, I'm happy about that. ;)

So, thanks for the confidence vote! Appreciate it.

Robbierob
10th of January 2009 (Sat), 14:03
my advice....
use tact and be honest with her. Ask her how she feels about her nose and what she expects from the shots.
Ask her what parts of herself she wants to acentuate and what parts she wants to diminish. I guarantee she is aware of her nose more than you, but as some obese people are; she is either happy with it, or wants it to not be prominent.

After getting her feedback, make your decision on whether you can give her the types of images she wants, and that will allow you to creativly express yourself.

alex2131
10th of January 2009 (Sat), 14:28
Relax man you are not marrying her is just a shooting... OK I just had to say it LOL. Now seriously: do the shooting, maybe you are more concern about her nose than she is. Relax, be honest, be you. Oh and don't forget to post them ;).
I have this friend and she believes she is the most beautiful girl on Earth, well I just try to make her feel ok, confident, beauty, but heck I know she is not that beautiful.

inthedeck
10th of January 2009 (Sat), 15:17
Thanks. Once it comes time, I'll figure it out. I have no immediate plans to go to Tampa, so, I'm not stressin' it till that time comes.

I have enough to deal with for tomorrow's shoot. ;)

scokar
10th of January 2009 (Sat), 17:36
First and foremost, think of the model's feelings. She may have heard it all before, but how you mention the "ideas that can be pursued" for the shoot might get you a repeat customer. wouldn't want to crush someone for life as well :)

inthedeck
10th of January 2009 (Sat), 23:16
There's always a moral factor behind it, I understand that. This is why I never said 'no,' but, also haven't said yes. I figure by the time I get to Tampa again, I will have figured this out. :)

tkoutdoor
11th of January 2009 (Sun), 11:21
First and foremost, think of the model's feelings. She may have heard it all before, but how you mention the "ideas that can be pursued" for the shoot might get you a repeat customer. wouldn't want to crush someone for life as well :)
No disrespect intended, but I don't buy that. Not at all.

Tact includes a respect for ones feelings, no one is suggesting otherwise. Yet feelings are not the final word in reaching a morally pure path, nor should they be the ultimate influence on which decision one chooses to make. Feelings can lead one astray as well, while being nothing more than distractions to perfectly moral and reasonable decisions (that are contradictory to ones "feelings"). If you need examples I'll gladly post some. If you give it some thought it won't take long to arrive at your own examples. Feelings don't deserve the "ultimate moral quality" award when it comes to making decisions IMO, though as I've said... "tact includes a respect for ones feelings". Doing what's right will many times require that ones "feelings" be set aside.

charlesu
11th of January 2009 (Sun), 16:00
thanks tko. It's all valid, and there's good tips in this thread, for sure. Hopefully, if someone else is faced with the same challenge, they may look back to it. Ever person is different, and I understand that whole-heartedly. Just a matter of capturing their beauty in a different way. She's in Tampa, so, I have time to respond..since I won't be down that way, for a while...till then, I'll read some more. ;)


Thanks Charles...seems like the concensus is long lens. I guess the 300 F4l IS would be the one that I'd use. While the 70-200 sounds nice, I feel I could get away with the 300 as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here?

If you have the distance, sure. Otherwise I expect the 70-200 is plenty.

inthedeck
12th of January 2009 (Mon), 09:17
Thanks Charles, will keep that in mind. If it's outdoors, I'm sure I'll have more than plenty of space...and given it'll be in Tampa, I'm sure it would be outside.

MattMoore
16th of January 2009 (Fri), 20:21
I had the same or a very similar issue.

I should have found a more flattering angle, but honestly there wasn't too much to choose from (all of her other portfolio photos had the same issue).

Her nose was too wide and a little hooked at the end.

I used photoshop and many minutes of layering.

Left is uncorrected, right is corrected.

334758

I think the results were fairly good; not great, but better.

jgoodstein
21st of January 2009 (Wed), 08:45
I used photoshop and many minutes of layering.

Left is uncorrected, right is corrected.


FOR REAL??? it almost looks like right is real and left is fake er corrected. You are a photoshop genius, she had to know what you did? and did you do it to all of her pictures? How did she feel about it?

nuffi
22nd of January 2009 (Thu), 23:26
And how did you do it?!?

Gvilla17
26th of January 2009 (Mon), 20:16
Very nice edit!