Another case of, "well, my friend has a camera"

[slitherjef]

My friend is getting Married, well, the date is some time next year and I knew what was going to happen sooner of later. Today, I was asked if I would like to be the one to shoot their wedding :|

This is probably one of those cases where, "Well, my friend has a camera" and that would be me and I bet while talking to his girl, or it least crossed his mind that, I would probably do it for little or no cost, and that factor bums me out. People don't seem to understand that gear cost money and while, yes, they are my friends, shooting their wedding for dirt or free is not going to get me newer equipment.

I told my friend I might do it, since they got the date set for next year, but you can bet I am not done yet...

I do plan on telling them that:

1) My gear may not be up to the task
2) There is always the chance I screw up the whole thing
3) I never shot a Wedding before and will likely make big mistakes
4) Tell them if they want serious photos to go find a pro to do it, that way they get things done right
5) If they want me to do it anyway with out a pro, I would seriously be tempted to draw up a contract that basicly states I accept no liability if I screw up their photos and they understand that fact and the fact I don't know what I am going to be doing and have them sign it
6) Tell them if they insist on me doing it, that gear cost money and taking photos does cause wear on my gear, it would be nice to get a little bit of cash back
7) I would be doing this for fun and to gain experience, even if they do have a pro on hand.

I know this type of shooting is hard and they are my friends, but it kind of sucks knowing that they are looking at me because I am the friend with the camera and likely think they can get me to do it for free :(

[TheHoff]

Maybe give them 50% off of a local pro's rate if they are good friends, but hell if you should give it away for free. Is anyone else giving them a wedding gift worth $3,000?

For as many hours as you're at the wedding, you'll have double that time in processing. They can't imagine that 20-30 hours of your time is no big deal, right?

I mean you know what the deal is... they are taking advantage of you. Whether or not you're up to it is another question.

[tim]

If you don't want to get into wedding photography you should just tell them straight out you'll screw it up, and to hire a pro. If a week before the wedding they still haven't, do it, for free. Sure, it'll take a LOT of time. Make them realise that without rubbing it in. And since it's your first it'll be 3-6 times more processing time than shooting. Of course you'll screw something up. I've been doing it 4-5 years, and I still occasionally screw something up.

If you do it you'll need:
- A backup body
- Two flashes
- A good main lens (rent a 17-55 F2.8 IS)
- Rent a 70-200 F2.8 IS
- Expect to spend $300 on books, and 4 hours a week for the next year on this.

If you don't like that plan, slap them until they hire a pro, who's already made the investment of time and money.

[S.Horton]

Just tell them you'd prefer to celebrate with them rather than work.

;}

[form]

Mixing friends and work isn't always a good idea anyway.

[capt_tast]

How good a friend are they? Good friends? If yes, then be a good friend and tell them to hire a photographer and enjoy the wedding.
Money will only get in the way.

[slitherjef]

Well, I did talk with my friends, they said they wanted me to do it because they like my photos and figured they could save a few bucks having me do it, you know kind of like a gift to them. They did say they would pay me. While I must say im flattered they wanted me to do it and I would be more then happy to, I had to break it down for them a little bit...

I was pretty blunt with them saying that my main problem was screwing something up, missing the photo or not having the right gear for the job. Also told them a pro would be the best bet if they for sure wanted good photos because a pro has done this before, I have not. A pro knows what to look for, when things are going to happen, has the gear and so on. I basicly said I would rather sit off to the side lines and grab some extra shots for them while a pro does their thing

They understood. I am sure we well be talking about it more as they set a date and get things lined up

[bnlearle]

Tim's advice is the best, imo.

Personally, you shouldn't charge. There's one thing you should ask yourself... Are you interested in becoming a wedding photographer? If so, you NEED to shoot some weddings. You NEED this. You aren't just helping them in this situation - they are helping you, as well.

You also shouldn't charge as you admittedly don't know what you're doing. You will mess up something. You have nothing to base your fees off of. You simply need to shoot some weddings.

So again, it comes down to whether or not you want to become a wedding photographer (or have interest). If not - don't shoot it. If so, shoot it as you need experience! Do it for free (let them tip if they like, of course :)) and you have no pressure. You're shooting simply because you like your friends AND you need experience.

This is how SO MANY (myself included) got into wedding photography. Shot my first two for free. Third for $500, fourth for $600, and so on. My mentality was "charge what you're worth if you mess up." Good way to start, imo ;)

[FlyingPhotog]

They understood. I am sure we well be talking about it more as they set a date and get things lined up

Do not let them keep putting these further discussions off to the point where you are painted into a corner and have no choice because they either didn't come to an agreement with you or failed to make any other arrangements.

Sorry but it's a sore point with me and my professional clients (sports TV production) where you get just enough "good news" information to make it interesting but the "oh by the way...you're probably not gonna like this..." doesn't come until it's too late to book something else.

[TheHoff]

So again, it comes down to whether or not you want to become a wedding photographer (or have interest). If not - don't shoot it. If so, shoot it as you need experience! Do it for free (let them tip if they like, of course :)) and you have no pressure. You're shooting simply because you like your friends AND you need experience.

I re-read the OP's posts and I'm not sure where you got the impression that he is wanting to do this as a career. He said he would like to do it for the experience but I think he may have meant general photographic experience. It doesn't sound like he wants to use this as a way to build a future wedding portfolio.

Maybe I'm wrong..

[Hermes]

Tell them you're not a wedding photographer, full-stop.

Owning a car doesn't make you a rally-driver. Owning a pencil doesn't make you a script-writer. Make it clear to them that having a camera does not qualify you do do a job that professional wedding photographers spend years gaining skills and experience for.

[bnlearle]

I re-read the OP's posts and I'm not sure where you got the impression that he is wanting to do this as a career. He said he would like to do it for the experience but I think he may have meant general photographic experience. It doesn't sound like he wants to use this as a way to build a future wedding portfolio.

Maybe I'm wrong..
Hmmm... Well, I think if he's looking for experience and possibly finding it in a potential wedding he's either a) interested in the idea of wedding photography or b) looking in the wrong place for general photographic experience.

If you just want general photographic experience, look for things that don't have "once in a lifetime," "something I've never done before," and "there is always the chance I screw up the whole thing up" together. I couldn't think of a worse way for someone who has no interest in wedding photography to go about getting general photography experience. Shooting a wedding in order to gain general photographic experience is like tightroping across two buildings in order to gain walking experience. There are better ways :)

Anyways, I'm not sure where you got the impression that I got the impression that he wants to do this as a career. I never got that impression. I asked him what HIS desires were.

"Are you interested in becoming a wedding photographer? If so..."

I'm saying if he has NO interest in wedding photography he needn't waste his time OR potentially mess with the friends' priceless memories. If he does have the desire or interest, then shoot it (as he's explained to his friends that he has NO experience so they know what they're getting into) for free as he needs experience and has no foundation to charge off of. If he was confident enough about the matter to know he's worth X amount of dollars then he wouldn't have wrote here. He's self-admittedly inexperienced and significantly worried about under-performing. These are not the traits of a photographer who charges for wedding photography. These are the traits of a photographer who wants to dabble and see if wedding photography tickles his fancy ;)

Bobby

[slitherjef]

I re-read the OP's posts and I'm not sure where you got the impression that he is wanting to do this as a career. He said he would like to do it for the experience but I think he may have meant general photographic experience. It doesn't sound like he wants to use this as a way to build a future wedding portfolio.

Maybe I'm wrong..

Your right. I am not too interested in doing wedding full time, how ever I am interested in giving it a try, you know, to see what its like.

As far as doing it for free, yeah sure. No problem with that, since I have never done this before, that would be way too much pressure to ask for 2 grand or something around that and then hope I get lucky with shots. I would rather do it for free and have them understand what my skills are, which are zip.

The other problem I have is, if I do this for free, it may end up costing ME out of MY pocket. Some one suggesting an extra flash. A 580ex would probably be recomended. And some faster glass, perhaps a 85 1.8 USM, that brings it to what? Around 800 bucks that I may have to pay so I can shoot their wedding?

So I guess I can tell them I can do it for free, in exchange for experience and have them understand I may miss shots. I will talk to both of them face to face when I get the chance to see what their ideas are and let them know what my skill level is. Then I can come back here to POTN and hit up the wedding area of the side and go from there

[slitherjef]

After reading bnlearle's post I am kind of feeling like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Gee, I do the wedding screw it up, I have no friends.
I don't do the wedding, piss them off I have no friends.

Bobby, you also make it sound like I am stepping on the toes of a pro wedding photographer. But you are right, I think I may want to dabble into this type of photography and you are right, I should not charge :)

[bnlearle]

Oh no, I don't think you're stepping on toes at all! I think you're totally fine to shoot it. I also don't think you need to buy more gear. So long as your friends know that you might not have all the gear you'd LIKE to have - the gear that pros consider necessary - and that you've never shot a wedding, that takes ALL the pressure off of you. You need backup gear and all those extras if you're charging. The thing is, there are perks in NOT charging ;) Obviously there's pressure, but there's WAY less if you're doing it for free. Perk. You don't have to have all the backup gear of a pro. Perk. You get tons of experience and find out if this is what you would like to do. Perk! :)

Clearly your friends don't have photography as a top priority for their wedding day. This is nice for you as it really drops a lot of pressure. The only thing that could be a problem is if BEFORE hand they are under the impression that you're going to have all the talent and experience of an established pro. Take care of that by making sure everyone is on the same page vis a vis expectations and you're golden, imo.

Believe me, I don't think you're stepping on toes as this is the exact way I got into wedding photography :)

[slitherjef]

Oh no, I don't think you're stepping on toes at all! I think you're totally fine to shoot it. I also don't think you need to buy more gear. So long as your friends know that you might not have all the gear you'd LIKE to have - the gear that pros consider necessary - and that you've never shot a wedding, that takes ALL the pressure off of you. You need backup gear and all those extras if you're charging. The thing is, there are perks in NOT charging ;) Obviously there's pressure, but there's WAY less if you're doing it for free. Perk. You don't have to have all the backup gear of a pro. Perk. You get tons of experience and find out if this is what you would like to do. Perk! :)

Clearly your friends don't have photography as a top priority for their wedding day. This is nice for you as it really drops a lot of pressure. The only thing that could be a problem is if BEFORE hand they are under the impression that you're going to have all the talent and experience of an established pro. Take care of that by making sure everyone is on the same page vis a vis expectations and you're golden, imo.

Believe me, I don't think you're stepping on toes as this is the exact way I got into wedding photography :)

Bobby,
Thanks for clearing things up :)
You brought up some really good points

[bnlearle]

No problem. And think there's totally a way you can do this without ending up with no friends :) If I did it ANYONE can!

[SuzyView]

This is exactly how I started. My BEST friend asked if I'd do her daughter's wedding. It didn't ruin our friendship. I gave it to them as a gift, all the work. I've shot all 3 of her kid's weddings now, and the first one has a 4 year old son. So, it's been a while. I had my 10D with 28-135 and 550ex. That was it. But I had a back up EOS 3 and I used both. I took about 400 images. In Oct 2005 I found POTN and really decided to upgrade my gear. I haven't stopped since.

Moral is, if you want to do it, read up, stock up and do it right from the start! If you can't do it, or want to have fun as a guest, then tell your friend, "Hey, thanks, but I think you should pay a real pro." I don't think either should ruin a friendship. As a wedding pro now, I can tell you I am many times better now than years ago. And I still enjoy the work, otherwise, I would have stopped.

[collierportraits]

Bobby, wow. I agree with most of what you're saying, BUT the money doesn't really matter if his camera dies and they end up with no photos, or very limited ones? I really don't think they'd say, "Oh, well, at least he didn't charge us. Hey, let's go to dinner with him!"

Slither, even if your backup is a P&S camera, HAVE BACKUP. Bobby, have you ever lost a body or lens during a wedding? True, it doesn't happen often, but I've had a body freeze up, a lens go down and a flash get kinky and fire weirdly - ALL in the same wedding. So yes, please have backup.

However, I couldn't agree with Tim more: If you don't plan on doing this, TURN this down (firmly). Yes, they'll be disappointed for a short while, but will get over it and you'll be better off in the long run. ;)

[bnlearle]

Look, if he CAN get another body... great! But so long as he explains to his friends that he DOESN'T have one and SHOULD - because something can go wrong - then what else is there?

My first two weddings were with one film camera. It was all I had. My friends had very little options. They didn't have money to buy me a second body. I didn't have money to buy a second body.

So long as everyone is on the same page - I see nothing wrong with shooting with what he's got. These people would be terrible friends if a) they ask their friend to basically shoot their wedding for free, b) understand that he's not a pro and is lacking some advantages of a pro (back up gear comes to mind), and c) ends up having mechanical failure so they blame him and no longer want to be his friend. Sure, they may feel that way - but they'd be bad friends, imo.

Again, I'm not encouraging the OP to shoot with one body. Not at all. Two bodies is so important. However, if his friends want him to do it - and he can't afford another body - so be it (so long as he explains it to them).

Hopefully that makes more sense ;)

Bobby

[slitherjef]

I do have a 20D, but there is a minor problem with that... its no longer got the IR filter :) But a custom white balance should take care of that. Then there is the Elan 7n

[OdiN1701]

http://www.camren.com/

They are in Denver - you could find out what it would cost to rent another body, a lens, flash, etc. and pass that on to your friends and see if they wouldn't mind covering that expense. Cheaper than buying outright.

Also hello fellow Coloradan :)