In Flight Bird Photos

[dicklaxt]

How do you get those good tack sharp in flight shots???

Heres my plan,set up on a Tripod and focus on a nest gourd entry of the center gourd of three different gourds on the same level.Do some test photos at different focal lengths and determine the best reults for light conditions, swing the Camera slightly away from the gourds and then as the birds approach in their flight path to that rack just start clicking away with a release so as not to move the camera and pray some good pics result.

Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.

dick

[Neilyb]

Practice, practice and er...practice. Simple as that.

[JC4]

It sounds like you're trying to stop the motion with a high shutter speed. It won't work, unless maybe you use a strobe.

You need to pan with the bird and release the shutter while continuing to follow through. Like above, it takes practice. Lots of it. The closer and smaller the bird, the tougher it is, so start with larger birds. Shutter speed around 1/1000 is still required. I'd start without the tri-pod, unless you have a good smooth head and solid pod, it'll only get in the way.

Visit the bird forum, there's always helpful folks there. Lots of tips already posted.

Oh, I'm really not very good at it, but get better every time I practice :)

[Familiaphoto]

What equipment do you have? How long is your longest lens. You'll probably be far away but want to tele in as much as possible to get the bird as large as possible. As John said above get your shutter speed above 1000 at least and track them as they fly, it is the best way I know of. Further many of the longest lenses (at least those I can afford) are light hungry so you'll probably find yourself doing this during the day.

And practice a lot, you will not be please with most of your shots the first time you do birding shots as technique is everything.

[dicklaxt]

What dictates which one should be first considered over the other?

[aqua_regia]

Shooting conditions and subject matter.

[dicklaxt]

Well that being said, now what dictates in particular. I have done some reading and haven't found any reasons one over the other.

dick

[jetboy]

Don't forget effect such as DOF. That will require AV mode. Motion blur will use TV mode and maybe panning. I even consider ISO as a priority setting. I keep that static more often then any of the others. Flash I'm 98% using M. Otherwise I shoot with AV mode the majority of the time as I want to control my DOF. Even then, I will use P more often than TV just because I need to grab the camera and snap quickly even with the child currently being a stationary subject (for a few months or so). It really depends on the operators preference and the photo's end result.

[dicklaxt]

This would be bird in flight,would the P mode stop motion asction as well as shutter?

dick

[jetboy]

P only would if the day was bright enough. I can't remember which the camera opens up or slows the shutter first. If you set shutter to 1/200 or 1/500 I would like to think that should stop most action. It depends on the speed of the bird. Either way, basically, TV mode is your best option if your trying to stop action. The camera will adjust your f-stop to correct automatically.

[DreDaze]

my guess is the o.p. is asking about aperture priority or shutter priority...but like the rest i'm lost...

[jetboy]

What dictates which one should be first considered over the other?


I thought this was a quite clear question. Thats why I said that AV will control DOF and TV will create and effect on motion (either blur or stop it).


This would be bird in flight,would the P mode stop motion action as well as shutter?

dick

The OPer then clarified here about wanting to stop motion. So, which priority setting is best for that? It doesn't seem like it was all that cryptic to me :rolleyes:.

[Perry Ge]

Shoot M and you don't have to worry about it. :cool:

[ed rader]

I thought this was a quite clear question. Thats why I said that AV will control DOF and TV will create and effect on motion (either blur or stop it).




The OPer then clarified here about wanting to stop motion. So, which priority setting is best for that? It doesn't seem like it was all that cryptic to me :rolleyes:.

either AV or TV will work. i use AV. of course i have to monitor shutter speed, which i can also control with ISO. there is no right answer to the question....whatever it is :D.

ed rader

[dicklaxt]

Well golly folks I don't know how to word it any differently, its just plain old everyday English. Try this,I want to take a picture of a bird flying(not sitting or running-the bird I'm talking about) and not do it in the auto mode(because I'm trying to learn to do it the proper professional way) so which priority setting should I use? Is that clear or should I resort to a more simple method of expressing a question?

When one needs to ask a question about a subject they don't really understand formulating the question oft times becomes more difficult than the subject matter of the question its self or do you not understand that either?

It appears internet forums are not for the people who want to learn but for the experienced individuals to come for thier afternoon fun.

Thanks to those of you who at least made a effort I appreciate that.

dick

[ed rader]

Well golly folks I don't know how to word it any differently, its just plain old everyday English. Try this,I want to take a picture of a bird flying(not sitting or running-the bird I'm talking about) and not do it in the auto mode(because I'm trying to learn to do it the proper professional way) so which priority setting should I use? Is that clear or should I resort to a more simple method of expressing a question?

When one needs to ask a question about a subject they don't really understand formulating the question oft times becomes more difficult than the subject matter of the question its self or do you not understand that either?

It appears internet forums are not for the people who want to learn but for the experienced individuals to come for thier afternoon fun.

Thanks to those of you who at least made a effort I appreciate that.

dick


that's clear....the simple method wasn't :D. i also have the habit of thinking that other people can read my mind so i can understand where you are coming from even if i wasn't sure what you were asking.

as i said above there's no right answer. i never use TV. but i could as easily never use AV. it's just a matter of what you get used to.

of course some people use every setting on their camera and that's fine too.

ed rader

[Perry Ge]

For birds in flight? Set camera to M mode. 1/1000s, aperture wide open or stopped down 1 stop, AI servo, spot meter off the bird or the sky and compensate as necessary by jacking your ISO. Shoot. The priority modes don't help a lot, especially if the bird is lighter/darker than the background.

BIF are freaking hard. It's not just about the settings - they're pretty basic, it takes a ridiculous amount of skill. practice, practice, practice. You will be disappointed at first (i.e. your pictures will suck, I guarantee it), but if you stick with it you will get better.

[DreDaze]

that would've been much easier to understand had you posted it like that the first time...

the bottom line is you want to at least get a shutter speed that will allow you to freeze the bird in action, and also eliminate any camera shake

my guess would be 1/500 or so should do the job...you could set it in TV mode, however depending on lighting conditions you may need to bump your ISO up

[aqua_regia]

Well golly folks I don't know how to word it any differently, its just plain old everyday English. Try this,I want to take a picture of a bird flying(not sitting or running-the bird I'm talking about) and not do it in the auto mode(because I'm trying to learn to do it the proper professional way) so which priority setting should I use? Is that clear or should I resort to a more simple method of expressing a question?

Now see, this is much better.



When one needs to ask a question about a subject they don't really understand formulating the question oft times becomes more difficult than the subject matter of the question its self or do you not understand that either?ah, you were doing so well there.

It appears internet forums are not for the people who want to learn but for the experienced individuals to come for thier afternoon fun.Dick, I've noticed you asking a lot of questions regarding the basics here, lately, and while it's great that you want to learn, might I suggest reading up on some educational literature rather than relying solely on this forum to get you through the learning process.

"Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson is an excellent place to start. You'll have a clear and concise resource for your questions that you can keep and review at your leisure and most books tend to be much less snarky than internet forums.

[Perry Ge]

my guess would be 1/500 or so should do the job...you could set it in TV mode, however depending on lighting conditions you may need to bump your ISO up

1/500 isn't fast enough most of the time ;). TV ain't gonna cut it unless you have perfect light or a fast, fast lens. If the light is good enough, you could set Av and jack your ISO to 800 or wherever you need to be so that you are consistently above at last 1/640, preferably above 1/1000. M is infinitely easier, IMO.

[Perry Ge]

Dick, I've noticed you asking a lot of questions regarding the basics here, lately, and while it's great that you want to learn, might I suggest reading up on some educational literature rather than relying solely on this forum to get you through the learning process.

"Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson is an excellent place to start. You'll have a clear and concise resource for your questions that you can keep and review at your leisure and most books tend to be much less snarky than internet forums.

^ What he said.

[DreDaze]

1/500 isn't fast enough most of the time ;). TV ain't gonna cut it unless you have perfect light or a fast, fast lens. If the light is good enough, you could set Av and jack your ISO to 800 or wherever you need to be so that you are consistently above at last 1/640, preferably above 1/1000. M is infinitely easier, IMO.


yeah, after i saw your post above mine i almosted edited it to say nothing...but figured i'd leave it as i was kinda close :lol:

[aqua_regia]

I'm honestly just suggesting what has helped me the most.

Asking questions on here is fine, but there's a high probability of being misunderstood or getting too many good answers to process at a specific point. Having a book that you can sit down with at your helped me out a lot since I could control the specific tips I could try on any given day.

"Ok, today I'm going to try this"

I would spend days working on a specific aspect of technique that helped me out a lot with learning the ins and outs of photography.

But most importantly, I shot a lot of photos and got a lot of practice in.

One can't expect awesome results when they are just starting out, nor can they supplant practice with reading. It took me months of both study and practice, with lots of bad photos, and countless frustrations before I even became comfortable with the equipment I had.

My suggestion for you still stands, get a book that's clear and concise and convenient for you to use as a resource. Go out and shoot. You will learn.

[jetboy]

How is it you all now understand the question when the OPer stated exactly this in his original post and post #5? LOL.

For birds in flight? Set camera to M mode. 1/1000s, aperture wide open or stopped down 1 stop, AI servo, spot meter off the bird or the sky and compensate as necessary by jacking your ISO. Shoot. The priority modes don't help a lot, especially if the bird is lighter/darker than the background.

BIF are freaking hard. It's not just about the settings - they're pretty basic, it takes a ridiculous amount of skill. practice, practice, practice. You will be disappointed at first (i.e. your pictures will suck, I guarantee it), but if you stick with it you will get better.

Telling a new photographer to manually set the camera and adjust ISO on the fly while tracking a bird is a bit more complicated than I would think learning should be. I personally would sacrifice DOF long before a jacking up my ISO and adding noise to the factor. Noise can make even a crisp and properly exposed photo only mediocre. I agree with the practice part, but, sometimes the fact that his camera has options such as TV mode I would use it. More often than not the camera is going to adjust pretty well for you. Just because a person takes the time to manually set everything, then, has to adjust while using the meters doesn't make the image come out any better. It will pretty much have the same effect as letting the camera set one of them for you quicker.

To stop action try out the TV mode. Or, you can up the learning curve and pretest for exposure and manually set everything. Then you only have to focus (same you would have to do with TV mode, but, you control all 3 settings). Shoot straight and shoot sharp. Have fun.

[Skip Souza]

I have deleted argumentative, rude and off topic posts.
RTFM is never an acceptable answer but pointing toward an excellent source of information on the subject is OK.

Now everyone play nicely.

[Perry Ge]

^ The point is, unless he has a 400 2.8L, he's gonna have to jack the ISO anyway, even shooting wide open.

Almost 100% of my birds in flight are shot at above 1/1000s, f/5.6-f/8, at ISO 400-1000. Higher ISO WON'T add much noise if you expose properly, but shooting at ISO100 and not getting the right exposure will. And you need all the shutter speed you can get shooting BIF, so expect to do some ISO jacking no matter what.

Edit: obviously this was a reply to jetboy, and not you Skip :p.

[ed rader]

How is it you all now understand the question when the OPer stated exactly this in his original post and post #5? LOL.



Telling a new photographer to manually set the camera and adjust ISO on the fly while tracking a bird is a bit more complicated than I would think learning should be. I personally would sacrifice DOF long before a jacking up my ISO and adding noise to the factor. Noise can make even a crisp and properly exposed photo only mediocre. I agree with the practice part, but, sometimes the fact that his camera has options such as TV mode I would use it. More often than not the camera is going to adjust pretty well for you. Just because a person takes the time to manually set everything, then, has to adjust while using the meters doesn't make the image come out any better. It will pretty much have the same effect as letting the camera set one of them for you quicker.

To stop action try out the TV mode. Or, you can up the learning curve and pretest for exposure and manually set everything. Then you only have to focus (same you would have to do with TV mode, but, you control all 3 settings). Shoot straight and shoot sharp. Have fun.

i hear you. start out in TV and take it from there. K.I.S.S. :D.

ed rader

[Skip Souza]

P.S. I also moved this to Bird Talk since the question is about BIF photos.

[Perry Ge]

i hear you. start out in TV and take it from there. K.I.S.S. :D.

ed rader

Fair enough, but I stand by my original 'prepared to be horribly disappointed at first' claim :D. Practice, practice, practice, whatever mode or settings the OP might choose to use.

[Perry Ge]

P.S. I also moved this to Bird Talk since the question is about BIF photos.

He posted an identical thread in the Bird Talk forum - could they maybe be merged?

[DreDaze]

How is it you all now understand the question when the OPer stated exactly this in his original post and post #5? LOL.



i didn't get it until post #11...maybe i'm slow...

[Hikin Mike]

I don't use a tripod with my BIF shots. I use manual exposure and I'm usually around ISO 400, f/5.6-f/8 and 1/1250 and beyond on a clear, sunny day.

[BradM]

Birds in flight can be tough and you will have many more crap shots than keepers for some time.

You can choose which ever mode you might perfer or go manual. In AV you will probably have to be wide open with a ISO setting at 400 or above if the light is only moderate and your glass isn't fast.

In TV the same is going to happen, ISO will have to in the upper ranges and the glass wide open to get the shutter speed up there. It is 6 of one or half dozen of the other, the point is you will want a fast shutter speed to assist your capturing the image.

With experience one can shoot BIF's at much lower shutter speeds than might be expected but you must have good panning techniques. Which means being setup prior to the bird entering the area you want to shoot, supporting the glass and rotating from the hips, not the arms, not the shoulders but rotating from the hips. Following through and being smooth while accurately tracking the subject under the focus point, it isn't a skill you pick up over night nor one where you can just read about it to do it. It requires signifcant practice.

The idea of using a tripod probably won't be succesful because the range of motion will either be too limited or too loose to add any assistance to the shot. If it a large lens and mounted on a gimbal head than is a different matter, that would be very helpful but I am guessing this equipment is not in your arsenal.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Bradklr/shortearedflt3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Bradklr/eagleflight700.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Bradklr/hummerorb10.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Bradklr/mallardhenflight.jpg

All of these were shot using AV mode, all were handheld. The eagle and short eared owls were shoot with a 500mm f/4 L an 8 pound lens, the eagle had an extender on it it taking it to 700mm. The other shots were also handheld but using the 100-400mm L. The slowest shutter speed is the hummer at 1/250th, the eagle at 1/500th and the rest higher.

Bottomline it takes good technique in panning and keeping your focus on the subject. A good way to start is to find some seagulls and practice, these birds often soar with a slow wing beat and are easily found. Practice and a tip if you are only getting the birds butt in the shot and not the eye, those aren't keepers. It is always easier to capture an image of something that has already passed, pick it up early and stay with it, start shooting just before it passes you by and follow through but stop shooting.