Shooting for a college

[DDCSD]

I'm wondering what guys charge for shooting a college (I understand that this varies wildly, but I am looking for a range) and what exactly you are charging for? I'm thinking of approaching some of the local colleges to shoot for them, but I am wondering what the protocol is for this.

I'm used to shooting at High Schools and selling to parents. I usually give the high schools some web images and/or the occasional shot for a banner.

Do colleges officially let you sell to parents?

The local college is NAIA, but we also have a couple of smaller NCAA D1 schools in the area that I may eventually approach.

[RandyMN]

Seems like colleges have so many students that infiltrate the photo market that I would guess the market is a difficult one.

High school students lack experience, but get to the college level and start educating photography and arts majors, seems like they'd be all over those opportunities.

[canonnoob]

What exactly are you wanting to do... I work for photo services for Missouri State.. some more info would help and i may be able to giv eyou my take on things...

[DDCSD]

Seems like colleges have so many students that infiltrate the photo market that I would guess the market is a difficult one.

High school students lack experience, but get to the college level and start educating photography and arts majors, seems like they'd be all over those opportunities.

Trust me, the local NAIA school's student photographer can't do basketball. He was alright with football and other outdoor sports, but his XT and 70-300 can't get a decent image in the ISO 1600 F/2.8 1/250s fieldhouse. ;)

They even have a few images from the local wedding photog (he shot a game for them last year, I have no idea if they paid him for it or if he did it for free) that are less than stellar on their web gallery. I know I can blow their doors off, just trying to figure out what to approach them with.

What exactly are you wanting to do... I work for photo services for Missouri State.. some more info would help and i may be able to giv eyou my take on things...


I'm trying to figure out how to convince the University to pay me to take pictures for them. ;)


This is the great thing about living in South Dakota, there aren't 10 photogs competing for stuff like this. There might be a couple, but the ones I've seen aren't all that good (to be quite frank). The downside is that you have to sell yourself to convince the schools that it is worth paying you for it. I need to be ablet o show what they'll get out of the deal.

[canonnoob]

well see if the university has a photo program that they pay students for shooting events and other things. if not then propose to them and ask them to shoot a few for cheap or free and let them see your work. then after that propose a contract and go from there...

[DDCSD]

well see if the university has a photo program that they pay students for shooting events and other things. if not then propose to them and ask them to shoot a few for cheap or free and let them see your work. then after that propose a contract and go from there...

A contract for what though? As I said, they have no one to get them decent images of indoor sports at all.

What I am trying to find out is what I am trying to sell them here. I doubt they'll pay me to take some pictures for an online gallery.

[canonnoob]

set up a contract with the athletic department to get them images of the certain games they can contract you for. You give them all the images you deem sutible for sale at a flat price set inside the contract. since i dont know the terms of the athletic department totaly i cant tell you what that shcool does but I can tell you what we get paid to do.

[DDCSD]

So what would they be using the images for? Anything they want? Advertising? brochures?

I somehow doubt they'd be willing to pay me what I'd want for giving them a bunch of images with all rights. Or is that how its done with this, the shooter gives them say 50 images with all rights handed over for $250 or so? I guess if that's how its done then that is what I'll propose. It's just hard for me to wrap my brain around.

[canonnoob]

So what would they be using the images for? Anything they want? Advertising? brochures?

I somehow doubt they'd be willing to pay me what I'd want for giving them a bunch of images with all rights. Or is that how its done with this, the shooter gives them say 50 images with all rights handed over for $250 or so? I guess if that's how its done then that is what I'll propose. It's just hard for me to wrap my brain around.

pretty much anything they might have in mind... tickets brocheures, team website.. just make sure you get credit for the images. I would say you do that and then they get to choose what they use them for..

[gromeo]

It all depends on the sport and the budget, football at most schools get the biggest budget for photos and basketball is next in line. I have talked to some schools and there budget was really low for that sports budget. I have worked for some D1 football and they paid 300 and the same school called to cover a basketball game when they were in town and they wanted to only pay 125. I will usually burn a disk of the images and mail it to the SID with the invoice. As far a I know the NCAA prohibits you from selling images on your own. Some schools have their own site that sells photos. I have also read that using a player on a mail out or business cards are a no no. What ever you do don't shoot for free once you do that it will be more difficult to get paid.

[Mike R]

I shoot an annual cheerleading competition at a university and have the same deal that I have with the high schools I shoot at. I post and sell to parents and only give the school some shots for their web site. There is not any cash exchange between the school and I. I'm fortunate that they also advertise my name in the program and over the PA system during the event. This event is attended by teams from several states.
I hope that this leads to more work at the school. Up until recently, the AD took the photos at games. He did a nice job too.

[DDCSD]

It all depends on the sport and the budget, football at most schools get the biggest budget for photos and basketball is next in line. I have talked to some schools and there budget was really low for that sports budget. I have worked for some D1 football and they paid 300 and the same school called to cover a basketball game when they were in town and they wanted to only pay 125. I will usually burn a disk of the images and mail it to the SID with the invoice. As far a I know the NCAA prohibits you from selling images on your own. Some schools have their own site that sells photos. I have also read that using a player on a mail out or business cards are a no no. What ever you do don't shoot for free once you do that it will be more difficult to get paid.

Just to be clear though, you give them high-res images and let them do whatever they want with the images, right?

I shoot an annual cheerleading competition at a university and have the same deal that I have with the high schools I shoot at. I post and sell to parents and only give the school some shots for their web site. There is not any cash exchange between the school and I. I'm fortunate that they also advertise my name in the program and over the PA system during the event. This event is attended by teams from several states.
I hope that this leads to more work at the school. Up until recently, the AD took the photos at games. He did a nice job too.

Interesting. Hopefully they'll let me shoot and sell to the parents along with selling them some images, and the newspapers.

Thanks for the info guys. Like I said, I don't want to walk in and look like an idiot making a proposal. I don't think things like this are normally done around here. Not at the lower levels at least.

[gromeo]

Some articles on selling NCAA photos
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=28147
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1546
http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Division_1_Manual_2008-09e9e568a1-c269-4423-9ca5-16d6827c16bc.pdf.
It is still a tight line on the what and what not and it varies between all the schools

[DDCSD]

Some articles on selling NCAA photos
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=28147
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1546
http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Division_1_Manual_2008-09e9e568a1-c269-4423-9ca5-16d6827c16bc.pdf.
It is still a tight line on the what and what not and it varies between all the schools

Excellent reads Romeo.

Did you see my above question about what you give the schools? Full res + rights?

[DDCSD]

Oh, and somewhat unrelated, does the school need model releases to use their students in advertising? Not that it matters for me selling them images, just curious.

[gromeo]

Derek, I give the schools full res out of the camera that is my contract deal with them, some schools will ask for edited photos in that event I charge extra, I keep all rights to the images. I am not sure how the schools address model releases when it comes to sports.

[DDCSD]

Thanks again Romeo.

[canonnoob]

schools are alittle finicky when addressing students in photos being sold. I know some schools are totally okay with it and that you are scott free should you sell.. and others where you are totaly banned if you do it. so ask the School first.

[canonnoob]

personally to me it all comes down to who your audience is... family/parents or newspapers...

[DDCSD]

schools are alittle finicky when addressing students in photos being sold. I know some schools are totally okay with it and that you are scott free should you sell.. and others where you are totaly banned if you do it. so ask the School first.

Oh yeah, I'll be asking. That is for sure. That's the last thing I'd need is to get nailed for it and get a bad rep. This is a very tight-nit area, everyone from one school knows everyone from every other school. One bad deal and I'd be effectively out of action for every other college within 250+ miles.

I suspect it won't be as big of a deal with the NAIA schools as with an NCAA school.

[superdiver]

I'm trying to figure out how to convince the University to pay me to take pictures for them. ;)




Thats NOT a good negotiating position to be in... probably not much $$ if you are doing the one convincing... in my experience...

[DDCSD]

Thats NOT a good negotiating position to be in... probably not much $$ if you are doing the one convincing... in my experience...

No, but there is no money in this for me if I don't approach them. I guess I could wait around for them to decide they want some decent photos and for the phone to ring, but I'd rather make my own opportunities.

If I can convince them that there is value in hiring me to take action photos for them, they'll pay me. It is as simple as that. I know that they currently don't think there is any reason to pay anyone to take photos for them. One look at their crap website, fliers and media guides tell me that.

I'm a pretty good salesman, I just need to know what exactly I'm selling and what other schools are paying for.

[hiker99]

Hi Derek, I've shot college sports for a couple of years and I've set up a few different agreements with the college I work with. When I first started out I only shot a few sports and would get $200 per game. In return I would give the college a cd of high res images. I retained the rights to the images but the school was able to use them for making game & media guides, team posters, end of the year slide shows and whatever ads they needed. My current agreement with the school is quite different. I've been asked to cover all the sports the school has and I do it for a flat rate per sport. In the end it works out that I am making a little less than $200 per event, but now I have gained the capability of selling the photos through my website. Check out section 12.5.2.2 in the NCAA manual link that gromeo sent you. You might want to print this section out and bring it with you when you negotiate with the school. I put a reference to this section of the manual underneath every photo I sell. Here is an example of what I mean.

http://www.ewbphotography.com/gallery/7032913_Cs9ef#450379175_XnKbq

[DDCSD]

Hi Derek, I've shot college sports for a couple of years and I've set up a few different agreements with the college I work with. When I first started out I only shot a few sports and would get $200 per game. In return I would give the college a cd of high res images. I retained the rights to the images but the school was able to use them for making game & media guides, team posters, end of the year slide shows and whatever ads they needed. My current agreement with the school is quite different. I've been asked to cover all the sports the school has and I do it for a flat rate per sport. In the end it works out that I am making a little less than $200 per event, but now I have gained the capability of selling the photos through my website. Check out section 12.5.2.2 in the NCAA manual link that gromeo sent you. You might want to print this section out and bring it with you when you negotiate with the school. I put a reference to this section of the manual underneath every photo I sell. Here is an example of what I mean.

http://www.ewbphotography.com/gallery/7032913_Cs9ef#450379175_XnKbq

Thank you very much for the info Eric. Exactly what I was wondering.

I'm thinking that Senior nights may be good potential sales nights, if I can work tat angle.

Excellent work, by the way.

[hiker99]

Thanks for the complement. You are right, senior night is usually by far the best night to get pictures.

[tomcat360]

My school paid $25 a game...they retain all copyright...then some big wig that isn't in contact with the photogs spent all their budget money and signed a 5 year binding contract with replay photos which gives the photogs 8% of the final sale...

So everyone shoots for free for them, except the people on payroll.

By the way hiker99, sweet avatar.

[DDCSD]

My school paid $25 a game...they retain all copyright...then some big wig that isn't in contact with the photogs spent all their budget money and signed a 5 year binding contract with replay photos which gives the photogs 8% of the final sale...

So everyone shoots for free for them, except the people on payroll.

By the way hiker99, sweet avatar.

Yikes, I wouldn't even bother for that, unless I expected some very, very strong print sales.

How many images did they expect for $25?

[lauderdalems]

I give the university full media rights - which is what they need the pictures for anyway. While my contract fee is probably on the very small end, it does allow me to upgrade my 'toys'. Since I am retired and have other income, I'm able to do this as an enjoyment than a business. On the other side, many years ago I was the school photographer on full scholarship - so I'm repaying the favors too.

The fee you are able to collect will depend on the size of the school their budget.

[tomcat360]

They wanted full coverage. I'm not working with replay any more, after a little bit I realized it was completely ridiculous. To be honest, I would be a lot happier with 25 bucks than what I'm getting now, shooting for paper and for the athletic dept where they use them on the site, media guides, tickets, and I don't see a dime from anyone.

Scholarship for being the photog!?! I gotta get that going on....haha.