Is there a "perfect" filter for newbie landscape to learn with?

[acs55812]

I am just venturing into the landscape area, is there a certain filter or filter set that is regarded highly by the majority that know about this stuff? Right now I have a 40D/10-22 and since my wife wants to get into this too, most likely soon to add a 5D to that.

Sunsets/rises are on the list as well as general landscape stuff (I am thinking clouds/blue sky helping type filters)

Also and good places to read how to use these filters would be helpful.

Thanks
Dan

[argyle]

There are four main filters for landscape photography: circular polarizer (CPL), graduated neutral density filter (GND), neutral density filter (ND), and a reverse graduated neutral density filter (reverse GND).

Of these, the CPL is the most versatile. When you're positioned properly, it'll give you those deep blue skies and white clouds. It can also be used to control reflections (enhance or eliminate) on various surfaces, such as water, glass, etc. It will also let you "see" below the surface of shallow water, enhance saturation, and do double-duty as a 1.5 to 2-stop neutral density filter. I'd recommend that you start with this filter since it has so many uses.

GND: These are clear on the lower half and shaded on the upper half (the shaded portion is dark at the top edge of the filter and fades towards the center). These are used to balance the exposure between dark foregrounds and bright backgrounds. They come in soft edge and hard edge. Hard edge are more for use when a basically flat horizon line is present (seascape or shooting from the rim of the Grand Canyon, for example). Soft edge GND's are typically used when the horizon line is uneven. If you decide to invest in GND filters, avoid the round threaded filters...the graduation line will always be in the center of your image. If you need to adjust the position of the line, you'd need to re-compose your shot. The rectangular filters are the better choice since you can position the filter up and down, leaving your composition as is. In addition to the soft or hard edge, these filters are available in various strengths (multiples of f-stops).

ND filter: Unlike a GND filter, the ND's are 100% shaded. Their main use is to slow down the shutter speed of the camera in bright conditions. You've probably seen waterfall shots with very silky water...this is probably the most popular use of an ND filter as far as landscapes go. They can also be used to remove motion from the surface of a lake...depending on conditions and exposure, a lake surface can be depicted as a sheet of glass. Like the GND, these are available in various strengths.

Reverse GND: The opposite of a GND. These are still clear and shaded, with the exception that the shaded portion is darker at the center and fades towards the top edge of the filter. An example of when this may be used would be when you're shooting a sunset, and the sun is above the horizon. The darker center portion of the filter will keep the sun from blowing out the shot. I mentioned this filter last since not too many folks use them, but they do exist (but expensive).

Try this link for filters and their uses, paying attention to the first three that I mentioned (the rest really aren't applicable to digital photography):

Filters and their uses (http://www.bythom.com/filters.htm)

One last thing...filters can get very expensive. Before investing in them, know what you want to achieve in your shots and understand their use. They're a great tool, but they can cost a lot of money.

[Ursie]

Can you buy ND filters that screw on to the end of the lens, rather than the square type that require a holder? Is this a good option?

[luigis]

Can you buy ND filters that screw on to the end of the lens, rather than the square type that require a holder? Is this a good option?

For a regular ND filter yes, you can and it may be a good option.
For a graduated ND it is a bad option because you will have to adjust your composition to where the horizon is in the filter and it is clear that is not good.

Luigi

[blackcap]

The filter that I can't do without is my 4-stop GND. I take a lot of sunrise/sunset shots and this really helps to balance the foreground and sky and reduces the amount of PP I need to do. If you are planning to do sunrise/sunsets, then you have to either use GND filters, HDR, or exposure blending if you want to expose the foreground properly.

__________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_gin/

[Agnu]

+1 on a GND. CPL effect can be done in Photoshop very easily with the use of curves, but the GND effect is very hard to do well in Photoshop.

Anyways, good luck. It really is an awesome thing to get into : ).

[luigis]

What you say is completely wrong.
There is no way to emulate a CPL filter in Photoshop
Once you take a pic without a CPL there is no PP way to remove polarized light from it.

+1 on a GND. CPL effect can be done in Photoshop very easily with the use of curves, but the GND effect is very hard to do well in Photoshop.
Anyways, good luck. It really is an awesome thing to get into : ).

[kevindar]

I agree with Luigis. CPL is really a very good starting point. It will help you deepen the blue of of sky and give more contrast to your clouds. It will take away reflection off of leaves, give you deeper green. It also acts as a 1.5 stop filter (which can be good or bad I suppose, but if you are shooting on a tripod, then for me its usually good)
You will have a much easier time mimicking a GND with doing multiple exposures and layering. You will also have the added advantage of not having to use a line as your transition. Not to say a gnd is not a nice thing to have, but first? polarizer.

[gary88]

Every person with an SLR should have a CPL in their bag. It can really make your photos "pop" when used in the right conditions.

And out of all the filters you can buy, it's the only one that can't be replicated in Photoshop ;) Heck even Lightroom has an option for a simulated GND.

[sparker1]

A CPL is a good tool, but often overused. The unreal blue skies prompted me to be very careful in using a CPL.

[luigis]

Agreed even if painful it is a good idea to take a shot with and without the CPL, overpolarization is many times a problem in landscape photography, specially with those polarizers that make colors cooler.

A CPL is a good tool, but often overused. The unreal blue skies prompted me to be very careful in using a CPL.

[argyle]

Geez...did the OP ever even bother to come back to his/her thread?

[luigis]

Don't think so but your post was a very good one, I'm sure it helped some others.

Geez...did the OP ever even bother to come back to his/her thread?

[ArcticShooter]

+1 on a GND. CPL effect can be done in Photoshop very easily with the use of curves, but the GND effect is very hard to do well in Photoshop.

Anyways, good luck. It really is an awesome thing to get into : ).

Not anymore! I tested out the trial version of CS4 and in the newest version of ACR you can apply the GND very easy and it also look great

[snyderman]

Geez...did the OP ever even bother to come back to his/her thread?

Not the OP, but I'm listening and reading. Thanks for the great info on filters.

Can you possibly recommend a decent quality CPL filter that won't break the bank? It will go on my Tamron 17-50 when the weather finally breaks here in NE Ohio. We have a lot of beautiful scenery to capture.

Thank you.

dave

[luigis]

I have a Hoya Moose Warming Polarizer for my Tamron 17-50 that I like a lot, polarizers tend to make the colors cold so I find myself using a 81B or 81A warming filter with the polarizer often, the Moose series combines both things in a single filter and that to me was very practical.

If you are serious about filters and landscaping I recommend you to get a rectangular holder and start a collection of rectangular filters, the CokinP series holder with Hitech filters is a good place to start and you have polarizers too of course.

Luigi

[jsinon]

Not the OP, but I'm listening and reading. Thanks for the great info on filters.

Can you possibly recommend a decent quality CPL filter that won't break the bank? It will go on my Tamron 17-50 when the weather finally breaks here in NE Ohio. We have a lot of beautiful scenery to capture.

Thank you.

dave

I just got a B+W Kaesemann CPL and it was worth every penny. I got it here http://hvstar.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=105 They come highly regarded here at POTN and the service is great. It may take about two weeks to arrive, but if you look at the state side prices for it you will be willing to wait. I don't know what size you need but I only paid a little more that $150 shipped for the 77mm size. A little pricey, but worth it.

[iqbal624]

This is EXACTLY the information I came looking for and was VERY happy to find it.
Thank you to everyone for your input.
should Sticky this and I second Hvstar.net for filters.
For example, the same filter post above on B&H: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/10889-REG/B_W_66045620_77_mm_Kaeseman_Circular.html

You have to pay shipping on both.

[jsinon]

This is EXACTLY the information I came looking for and was VERY happy to find it.
Thank you to everyone for your input.
should Sticky this and I second Hvstar.net for filters.
For example, the same filter post above on B&H: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/10889-REG/B_W_66045620_77_mm_Kaeseman_Circular.html

You have to pay shipping on both.


I just went through the same thing with the grad nd's I have on the way. I went with the Hitech's based on recommendations here. The best price I found for them state side was almost $40 + shipping each. After a little searching I found them here http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10288 for what comes to just under $60 for a set of three. And that is with the shipping included.

[CameraBuff]

I just went through the same thing with the grad nd's I have on the way. I went with the Hitech's based on recommendations here. The best price I found for them state side was almost $40 + shipping each. After a little searching I found them here http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10288 for what comes to just under $60 for a set of three. And that is with the shipping included.

That link you provided is the lowest price I ever saw. Let us know how it goes as I am looking for some hitech filters also but the 100mm size for a cookin z pro holder.

I just don't know which to order soft vs hard as I shoot both even and uneven horizon's.

Some threads indicate to order hard gnd's from hitech as they are on the soft side compared to lee, etc - anyone have any comments?

[argyle]

I just went through the same thing with the grad nd's I have on the way. I went with the Hitech's based on recommendations here. The best price I found for them state side was almost $40 + shipping each. After a little searching I found them here http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10288 for what comes to just under $60 for a set of three. And that is with the shipping included.

You need to be careful with the "set of three" GND filter kits...they usually include a 1-, 2-, and 3-stop filter. The 1-stop filter is basically useless, at least in my experience. I've been shooting with grads for many years and have never used a 1-stop filter. What might seem a good price for three filters is in actuality a 2 filter kit. Very few people buy 1-stop ND's, so the dealers include them in a special order kit so as to move them out. I'd see if the dealer would be willing to swap out the 1-stop for a 4-stop or, at the very least, a matching density GND in a gradient that's not included in the kit (if the kit includes soft grads, ask for a corresponding filter in a hard grad, and vice versa). Wouldn't hurt to ask.

[jsinon]

You need to be careful with the "set of three" GND filter kits...they usually include a 1-, 2-, and 3-stop filter. The 1-stop filter is basically useless, at least in my experience. I've been shooting with grads for many years and have never used a 1-stop filter. What might seem a good price for three filters is in actuality a 2 filter kit. Very few people buy 1-stop ND's, so the dealers include them in a special order kit so as to move them out. I'd see if the dealer would be willing to swap out the 1-stop for a 4-stop or, at the very least, a matching density GND in a gradient that's not included in the kit (if the kit includes soft grads, ask for a corresponding filter in a hard grad, and vice versa). Wouldn't hurt to ask.

Initially I was thinking the same thing. After a lot of reading I don't think I came across a single post about using a 1 stop gnd. My logic was that on the few instances I might need more than a 3 stop I could stack them. With a 1, 2, and 3 stop set I can get up to 6 stops in extreme cases. I have read about stacking them but not too much about quality loss. I sure it depends on filter quality, lens quality etc. We shall see. Even if I never use the 1 stop my "2 stop kit" is still cheaper, by enough to matter to me, than buying the two separately at the best state side price I can find. I may add a hard edge in the future, but as close as I live to the ocean I have only been there once in the last year to photograph.

[jsinon]

That link you provided is the lowest price I ever saw. Let us know how it goes as I am looking for some hitech filters also but the 100mm size for a cookin z pro holder.

I just don't know which to order soft vs hard as I shoot both even and uneven horizon's.

Some threads indicate to order hard gnd's from hitech as they are on the soft side compared to lee, etc - anyone have any comments?

Glad I could be of help.

As argyle suggested, contact them they may be willing to make you a kit of the densities and edges you want. You never know.

[CameraBuff]

Thanks, good thread; it will be fun trying the gnd's when I do get them. I never used them before.

[jsinon]

Neither have I. Since my interests are outdoor stuff, and I'm not the most proficient in the PP department, I want to try to get it as right as I can in camera. A lot of my landscape images have either blown out sky or too dark foreground. I'm still very low on the learning curve so in my research grad nd's always come up as filters I should have. Along with a good CPL, which I have already.

[jcothron]

Not the OP, but I'm listening and reading. Thanks for the great info on filters.

Can you possibly recommend a decent quality CPL filter that won't break the bank? It will go on my Tamron 17-50 when the weather finally breaks here in NE Ohio. We have a lot of beautiful scenery to capture.

Thank you.

dave

Hoya Pro 1 is a good one. One of the things to consider when purchasing is whether you need the thin profile CPL or not. Since you can rotate the filter to adjust polarization the rings are thicker than non-rotating filters. On wide angle lenses this can cause vignetting in the corners. With a 17mm focal length this is a distinct possibility depending on whether you're shooting crop frame or full frame sensor.

[argyle]

Not the OP, but I'm listening and reading. Thanks for the great info on filters.

Can you possibly recommend a decent quality CPL filter that won't break the bank? It will go on my Tamron 17-50 when the weather finally breaks here in NE Ohio. We have a lot of beautiful scenery to capture.

Thank you.

dave

I wouldn't try to scrimp on a CPL...a high quality, multicoated filter will last you a good long time. Personally, I'm partial to B+W filters, especially when it comes to polarizers. The coating on Hoya filters are known for being difficult to clean due to smudging, etc. Also, some Hoya CPL's (some, not all) have been known to come apart unexpectedly due to a faulty retaining ring. For this reason alone, I decided to stay away from Hoya. You can search the accessories forum for more discussion on these topics...lots of threads. I'd recommend the B+W MRC polarizer...excellent filter. For a few dollars more, there's also the Kaesemann style of this same filter. Its pricey, but you won't get much better quality and you won't have to worry about it coming apart on you.

With regard to the slim/standard debate...forget the slim filter (if you stay with B+W). I use the B+W standard F-Pro MRC Kaesemann polarizer on my 5D/17-40L and don't get any vignetting with it. When I had my EFS 10-22, I used it on my 30D without any vignetting either. The B+W won't vignette...I can't say for sure whether or not other brands will behave the same.

If you want really great prices on B+W, try hvstar.net...that's where I get all of my B+W's.

[jcothron]

I wouldn't try to scrimp on a CPL...a high quality, multicoated filter will last you a good long time. Personally, I'm partial to B+W filters, especially when it comes to polarizers. The coating on Hoya filters are known for being difficult to clean due to smudging, etc. Also, some Hoya CPL's (some, not all) have been known to come apart unexpectedly due to a faulty retaining ring. For this reason alone, I decided to stay away from Hoya. You can search the accessories forum for more discussion on these topics...lots of threads. I'd recommend the B+W MRC polarizer...excellent filter. For a few dollars more, there's also the Kaesemann style of this same filter. Its pricey, but you won't get much better quality and you won't have to worry about it coming apart on you.

With regard to the slim/standard debate...forget the slim filter (if you stay with B+W). I use the B+W standard F-Pro MRC Kaesemann polarizer on my 5D/17-40L and don't get any vignetting with it. When I had my EFS 10-22, I used it on my 30D without any vignetting either. The B+W won't vignette...I can't say for sure whether or not other brands will behave the same.

If you want really great prices on B+W, try hvstar.net...that's where I get all of my B+W's.

WOW, you aren't kidding, that's a great price on the B+W. I knew this one was pretty slim as is, but I've never seen it for that price.

[noodle_snacks]

I'd buy a CPL and maybe an ND filter. Grad NDs are easily emulated in photoshop (bracket exposures if nessicary) and you get much finer control doing so. In the digital day and age there is also the possibility of exposure blending and HDR (done correctly it can look very convincing). ~~~~

[CameraBuff]

Jsinon

Did you receive those Hitech GND's.