Bird photographer, not bird watcher.

[TooManyShots]

Some interesting encounter. The weather is cold and most birds tend to gather in one spot for food and warm. So, I have been shooting at the local park's feeder area. The area seems to be a very popular spot for bird watchers, not bird photographers. You mean a bird watcher taking pictures of birds isn't a bird photographer? Is quite odd shooting these birds while having 2 to 3 watchers taking pictures. For one thing, as they take pictures, they like to tell others what birds they were shooting. They like to walking around the area to get a better position. They move a lot and very sudden. They don't shoot with the right equipment. The oddest thing is that they don't stay more than 15 minutes.....and they are out.... Gone. Left the area. As soon as they saw the most specie of birds in the area, they headed out.

As a bird photographer, our jobs have only just begun. I stood there in one spot for 3 hours. Yes, I have spotted all the specie of birds but I am chasing the perfect pose with a perfect bird, on a perfect branch. With the right kind of light. Hoping for a clear shot with some big close up. This takes hours.

On one outing, I usually encounter 2 to 3 groups of the bird watchers. Hopefully, they would learn something from me seeing me shooting with a 500L, flash with a better beamer, and standing there in the cold for hours. :)

[jgrussell]

Ran across the same sort of thing in Africa. We came across four lionesses and stayed with them, following as close as we could, for hours. Others drove up, snapped a shot, crossed "lion" off their list and were off in five minutes.

[andrewhuxman]

Birding as I have found out is not easy it takes effort, patience, the will to get the shot , willing to brave the elements and knowledge of your subject(s). And I love it .:D

[BradM]

I am often asked if I am a "birder", I rapidly deny it and state I am a wildlife photographer. While birders are usually nice people their sense of proper behavior is much different than a photographers.

And birders are often quite weird, I mean like Silence of the Lambs weird. I was a cop for over a decade and met and dealt with a lot different people with a lot of different issues mental or otherwise but I am acquainted with several birders that I wouldn't leave my brother alone with let alone my grandmother.

In one instance my gf was waiting for me to get up off the beach I was prone on shooting some shorebirds, she is usually very patient and has no trouble talking to people.

But a self described birder approached her and after a couple minutes of talking with him literally ran onto the beach to get me to "introduce" me. After meeting this guy I was creeped out just by his behavior.

He followed us to the point I suggested he might leave before I called the police, which he did but I still reported him. And this isn't a limited circumstance, I could describe at least 7 or 8 more differing situations where the behavior or remarks were outside the norm from this class of hobbyist.

But the greater class of them and their behavior I put it down to the belief that they are most often glasssing at distances we wouldn't consider pointing a lens at and they are on a schedule to visit as many possible locations in a day. So it is an in and out, chatty and disruptive while they are there.

I am not a birder!

[andrewhuxman]

And birders are often quite weird, I mean like Silence of the Lambs weird. I was a cop for over a decade and met and dealt with a lot different people with a lot of different issues

Wow..... you had one instance of a goofball on a beach and you call birders weirdos? Kinda harsh I would say . Specially when you know nothing of who these people are on here and those who consider themselves " Birders" I know some Cops that I would never leave my kids with or any family member with cause of their behaviors and attitudes towards others. And it looks like my views kinda fit with you a former cop stating your views towards "Birder's". There are FAR more news reports of cops shooting and abusing people in the news than their are of birders , show me a story in the news where a bird photographer goes nuts and shoots or abuses someone.

[BradM]

Wow..... you had one instance of a goofball on a beach and you call birders weirdos? Kinda harsh I would say . Specially when you know nothing of who these people are on here and those who consider themselves " Birders" I know some Cops that I would never leave my kids with or any family member with cause of their behaviors and attitudes towards others. And it looks like my views kinda fit with you a former cop stating your views towards "Birder's". There are FAR more news reports of cops shooting and abusing people in the news than their are of birders , show me a story in the news where a bird photographer goes nuts and shoots or abuses someone.

As I said I can recount at least 7 or 8 more tales of behavior that is outside of normal bounds of people claiming to members of this hobby over the last several years. Whether or not you agree to my opinion is up to you, and how one might label themselves is again up to themselves.

My point is clear I am not a birder and don't wish to be associated with this label.

[andrewhuxman]

My point is clear I am not a birder and don't wish to be associated with this label.

LMAO:lol::lol::lol: A wildlife photographer that takes pictures of birds = A BIRDER...... like it or not your a birder..... its ok just come out of the closet it will be ok.

[dewitp]

Where I am, the birders I run into are some of the nicest people I ever see out in the field. They are pretty much always very helpful with discussing where certain birds have been spotted recently, identifying, etc. I've never met a creepy birder, infact it is rare to meet one that isn't open to talk friendly.

I see more creepy people in the summer (usualy naked people on trails), but they aren't birding!

[jmik26]

I have meet a lot of "birders" recently and majority are very nice. However there is an extreme group that can't stand photographers? :rolleyes: There argument is that we stress the birds out? I have seen many arguments on a local forum about flashes, feeding to get better shots, etc... I just can't understand how you can carry a field guide around to identify birds that is filled with photos of birds then express your hate towards bird photography?

So, am I a birder? In a way I guess, but I am always hesitant on approaching other birders.

As far as how long it takes to get a good shot. I think there is no predetermined length of time you should sit. Sometimes I can get a great shot in first two frames and other times it takes 2-3 hours. I guess it all depends on skill and how acclimated the birds are to humans...Jeff

[vkalia]

As I said I can recount at least 7 or 8 more tales of behavior that is outside of normal bounds of people claiming to members of this hobby over the last several years.

Given that birding is one of the most popular hobbies in the US, it is not surprising to find atleast a few weirdos there.

I know that I've met a lot more weird/antisocial/creepy photographers, scuba divers and audio enthusiasts than birders (a few eccentrics out there, but all I have met have been harmless).

The problem with trying to extrapolate from a VERY limited set of data to cover a very large group is that often one draws conclusions that can be a little... hasty.

My point is clear I am not a birder and don't wish to be associated with this label.

I am not sure how this thread became about how you would or would not want to be labelled, but hey, happy you got that off your chest.

Moving on, or rather back, to the OP - most birders are not trying to take artistically great photos. They want record or ID shots, and their goal is to see more species rather than take a few good photos. It can get tricky when you are both and are hoping to spot a few interesting species and there is a more common bird porn-starring for your camera. Stay or go... becomes a tough call.

Jeff - one thing I have found is that nature photographers tend to be one of the most callous group of people when it comes to the environment. Not all, for sure - only a minority, but a surprisingly large minority are willing to do anything in order to get a great shot. Disturbing the subject means nothing to them. I have heard of underwater photographers destroying corals after they've taken their shot so that no one else gets a similar photo; bird photographers who have destroyed nests, and so on. Stories that make my blood boil and which will probably result in me connecting fist to face if I ever see something like this happen.

Birders tend to be a little excessively tetchy about this - they can watch from afar but a photographer HAS to try to get closer for better shots, and a lot of them find this hard to understand and/or get unreasonably bent out of shape over even small movements. But to a degree, their ire is also justified, given the behavior of some photographers.

Vandit

[5Dmaniac]

I like to go to the Cibola NWR here in AZ to shoot wintering sandhill cranes, snow geese, etc. Very often I am all by myself and don't even see any other photographers. The first few times I was there, I was watched by the local volunteers - I was wondering why I kept seeing them all the time, until one of them finally walked up to me and welcomed me to the refuge. After a friendly chat, he confirmed that they had an eye on me all the time because many (according to them) bird photographers would not respect the "privacy" of the birds. I became very friendly with those folks and we often sit and chat for hours - they are very concerned about photographers doing just about anything to get the shot.

[gymell]

It's true that birding can have different goals from bird photography. It seems that birders are more interested in seeing many bird species rather than actually watching individual birds. They don't need to get close, because they can use a spotting scope to identify a bird, then move on to the next. That's why I like bird photography, because I enjoy the challenge of getting close and of seeing the detail, and watching how birds behave. However, birders can be very helpful when it comes to finding good locations for us bird photographers. When I have a question about ID, it's the birders that I ask. Also they are very appreciative of a good photo, although they may not understand the type of effort it takes to get that photo. I don't really consider myself a true birder since I don't make life lists or have a spotting scope, but I don't have any problem with birders because we do have a lot in common!

[nwyman]

this is such a funny thread!
In an effort to try to find more subjects, I joined our local bird-watching group last August and met with them for the first bird walk. There were about ten of us, including the leader and his companion. Everyone chattered away, not quietly at all.
After tromping down the wildlife trail at the refuge, the leader announced -"Oh, look - there is the red-headed woodpecker" and pointed off into the distance. He claims he has "seen" this bird for several years now in this particular stretch of the woods.
Now, maybe he has, and maybe he hasn't. My feeling is that if you can't show a photo of it, it's undocumented.

This is an area that I visit almost weekly on my own. I've seen many birds there and photographed many of them. But I always have to sit quietly by myself until the birds are ready to come near.
I can't understand how a group of ten or more people expect to see anything at all in the woods.

I was also the only person in the group who noticed the black snake in the tree along the trail.:) Guess bird-watchers aren't snake watchers.

[gymell]

What I've found is that going along on bird watching trips or attending festivals can be useful. Not actually during the event, because as you mention there are often a lot of people and the goals are different. I'll usually take along my camera, just in case, but don't expect much in these situations. However, it's a good way to find out some good locations to come back later on my own. That's what I get out of these trips.

[RandyMN]

So if I have a backyard full of bird feeders, does that make me a birder?

I love watching them and occasionally will even take pictures. In the Winter I keep feeding them but I leave for work before they come and get home after they are fed and gone.

I still feed them even though I don't see them, but when I do see them I enjoy watching them. So does that make me weird?

[RandyMN]

Ummm,

Excuse me,

DOES THAT MAKE ME WEIRD???

[ifixsharp]

LMAO:lol::lol::lol: A wildlife photographer that takes pictures of birds = A BIRDER...... like it or not your a birder..... its ok just come out of the closet it will be ok.

Now Andy I am LMAO....I stumbled into this topic. Way to funny.
I'm going to look for more birds, But you know me I wont find any.

G.

[TooManyShots]

Some interesting posts. I just wanted to point out some of the odd behaviors of a bird watcher turned bird photographer....:) Of course, you have to be talented to be a bird watcher and knowing all the specie of birds and how they are ID.

[sam walker]

My wife marrieded a birder . He found a camera 10 years ago. She hates cameras and curses when we go birding. I'm still a birder with a 220 bird life list. i do both and enjoy it. I certianly never go birding without a camera. who knows if an Ivory billed woodpecker might show up.
Sam

[vkalia]

I certianly never go birding without a camera. who knows if an Ivory billed woodpecker might show up.
Sam

You know you'll get ERR 99 when the IVBP does show up. Or your scope will fog up. It is destiny. :)

V.

[gymell]

who knows if an Ivory billed woodpecker might show up.
Sam

If you take one of these along (http://www.amazon.com/Plush-Ivory-Billed-Woodpecker-Audubon/dp/B000J4ID6A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1231943720&sr=1-1), you might have some luck! ;)

[Sid52]

Interesting thread, here in the UK it seems that the definitions of birder are the opposite of the other side of the pond. What most people are describing as 'birders', ie ticking off a speces list and rushing hundreds of miles to see a rare vagrant, is what we would call a 'twitcher'.

Birders in the UK are true birdwatchers, who are primarily interested in watching birds, and learning as much as possible about their habits, behaviour feeding etc. Although they also are interested to see a wide variety of birds and rarities. By the way calling a birder/birdwatcher a twitcher can meet with varying degrees of indignation!

I think that bird photographers will naturally gravitate to becoming birdwatchers as knowledge of behaviour greatly aids good photos, and to be honest is absolutely fascinating

Sid

[Bob Walker]

Where I am, the birders I run into are some of the nicest people I ever see out in the field. They are pretty much always very helpful with discussing where certain birds have been spotted recently, identifying, etc. I've never met a creepy birder, infact it is rare to meet one that isn't open to talk friendly.

I see more creepy people in the summer (usualy naked people on trails), but they aren't birding!
I agree here as most the birders I have met have been decent people. Unfortunately as in our ranks there are those who do little to enhance their image (No pun intended) when out in the field or expressing their opinion to others. Neither engaged parties, meaning birders and photographers are without fault at one time or another. The better we try and coexsist the better for all of us. There is enough arguing, disagreements and wars in this world without us having to add to them when we all love nature and should respect it for what it is. Amen.

[lmans]

A birder is a birder.....photography or no photography..... I must admit that since getting into photography my experiences as a birder have increased since I do enjoy looking at what I viewed etc....I have been birding for 15 years and was even a National Park Ranger so had an eye for nature. But some birds just escape one and having a photo of the bird only helps to identify.

Birding is a sport and an enjoyable hobby. You will meet all kinds just like one does in real life. Many of them are knowledgeable while others who classify themselves as a birder do not even know what a hawk looks like if presented with one. The idea is to go with the flow and enjoy it.

Since most of us on this site have "canon's....I take it most of us are photographers of sorts. I am new to this birding site but enjoy all that it has to offer.