New to the 430EX II - Need advice

[synapxe]

Just got the 430EX II and very excited to use it. I've been reading the EOS bible and most of the stickies and I think I am understanding most of it but just want someone to give me a straight answer and advice. The type of shot im most interested is like the one below (not mine, found it via google)

Basically, can you tell me what settings on the flash and camera would work best to replicate this shot? Flash on ETTL and camera on AV? High speed sync 1/200?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/460342250_0a71c4c130.jpg

[Lotto]

I would just use Av mode, use the correct ISO to have enough shutter speed of hand held, EC to - 1/2 or one stop to make the sky look more dramatic. Set the 430 to ETTL mode and take a shot, check the histogram and the exposure on the subject, adjust the FEC on the flash if needed.

Use M mode if you are comfortable with it. Since the shot is using wild angle lens, there is not much of chance to throw the BG out of focus, HSS is not needed.

[synapxe]

I would just use Av mode, use the correct ISO to have enough shutter speed of hand held, EC to - 1/2 or one stop to make the sky look more dramatic. Set the 430 to ETTL mode and take a shot, check the histogram and the exposure on the subject, adjust the FEC on the flash if needed.

Use M mode if you are comfortable with it. Since the shot is using wild angle lens, there is not much of chance to throw the BG out of focus, HSS is not needed.

Thanks very much for the info, can you clarify what the EC is? Is that changed on the flash?

[AlanU]

EC is set on the camera body. FEC is your flash exposure compensation (IIRC can be set in menu on body).

In AV mode your EC can be adjusted by depressing the AV -/+ button (using your thumb) and at the same time and using the dial behind the shutter button (using index finger)on your XTI.

With your XTI you may need to be in ISO 800 to get enough shutter speed if your handholding the camera with f/8 and smaller aperature. Play with the FEC button on the 430EXII to get proper exposure on the subject(s)

[synapxe]

EC is set on the camera body. FEC is your flash exposure compensation (IIRC can be set in menu on body).

In AV mode your EC can be adjusted by depressing the AV -/+ button (using your thumb) and at the same time and using the dial behind the shutter button (using index finger)on your XTI.

With your XTI you may need to be in ISO 800 to get enough shutter speed if your handholding the camera with f/8 and smaller aperature. Play with the FEC button on the 430EXII to get proper exposure on the subject(s)

This might be a stupid question, the flash should be directed at the subject as opposed to on a specific angle?

[AlanU]

This might be a stupid question, the flash should be directed at the subject as opposed to on a specific angle?

I'm by no means a veteran. That photo appears to have direct flash as fill guaging the distance of the photog and 3 people. In most cases direct flash is used (flash on camera) or some will put a stofen type diffuser to soften a tad. everyone has a different method and its personal preference.

If your talking about indoors most will simply bounce the flash off the ceiling or wall. The 430EXII does NOT have a index/catch light card built in so it doesn't throw light forward.

I use the Joe Demb flipit and i find it easy to store in the gear bag. You can shoot portrait/landscape just by moving the flash head. Very light aswell. Some people will say its a waste of money (many do alot of DIY foam/card with rubber band method) and some love it. The flipit looks clean and professional and its robust.

http://www.dembflashproducts.com/flipit/

I use the flipit jumbo on my 430EXII even though I just have the "big" card as a spare (too lazy to remove the 2 plastic bolts).

[synapxe]

Using the flash pointed at the subject with a stofen attached, would that not offer a very similar effect?

[shutterfiend]

A question and concern in general. I can see the alure of seeing faces against setting sun. But doesn't these types of photographs look very unnatural? I can see a partially turned face with supplemental lighting from the side for better illumination. Some orange gel to adjust color.

[shutterfiend]

Using the flash pointed at the subject with a stofen attached, would that not offer a very similar effect?

Stofen will scatter the light in every direction. Very little will reach the subject.

[40Dude6aedyk]

Here's the way I would look at the photo you attached. It's like 2 separate photos merged together in Photoshop: (1) the ocean, boat, beach, sunset and (2) the people and driftwood.

So lets figure out how to take each photo separately and then togehter.
For photo (1), you don't need flash and indeed flash would be useless since your 430EXII cannot light up the boat nor the sunset even if it flashed at full power. Anyways you figure out what f-stop, shutter-speed and ISO to use (without any flash) for that photo or you let the camera do it. I'll guess it's something like f/8, ISO 400 and SS 1/30th.

For photo (2), if you use f/8, ISO 400 and SS 1/30th, the people will be underexposed. You have to accept that. But lets put the people in a darkened studio, set the camera to f/8, ISO 400, SS 1/30th and figure out how to get them exposed properly. I think it's pretty obvious that we will have to put some light on them and the 430EXII is perfectly suitable for that. Since the people are relatively close, you will not need much flash and there are several ways to get your flash to do what you need. Here are some options:

(a) set the flash for manual mode and use 1/16 power, then take the photo and look at the exposure (remember the camera is set to f/8, ISO 400 SS 1/30th). Adjust the flash output to get what you want (1/32, 1/4, etc).

(b) set the flash for ETTL mode and let the camera decide on how much flash to use first. If the photo is overexposed, adjust FEC (flash exposure compensation) to -1, -2. If photo is underexposed, adjust FEC to +1, +2.

Now you can combine the 2 photos in photoshop (not really!). Now you can go to the beach and just take the photo. Your manual camera settings will expose for the ocean, boat and sunset. Your flash settings, (either M & output or ETTL & FEC) will expose for the people. Take the picture and look at it. You can adjust for the background and/or for the people to get the picture.

My guess is that if you just put the camera in green box mode and took the picture with flash in auto-mode that you would get a good picture as well because the camera/flash would do (b) for you without you thinking about it.

And you do have to point the flash basically forwards. You could tilt towards the people, but you would not have to. I think its obvious that you should not tilt straight up to the sky nor to the void behind you, nor to either side.

And did you violate a copyright by posting that photo?

[AlanU]

Using the flash pointed at the subject with a stofen attached, would that not offer a very similar effect?

I think upclose outdoors with no walls or ceilings the stofen would be softer as long as your using it a fill light to remove racoon eyes.

I actually have tried using my big honking lightsphere (clone) pointing it forward and used it as a massive stofen (I do not own a stofen). It worked ok.

[Hknivers]

A simple solution:
You set the camera in AV mode, for correct exposure of the background. Then you set the flash for "Second Curtain Sync", point the flash directly at the subjects. If the flash is too hard, turn FEC down and vice versa....

[synapxe]

A simple solution:
You set the camera in AV mode, for correct exposure of the background. Then you set the flash for "Second Curtain Sync", point the flash directly at the subjects. If the flash is too hard, turn FEC down and vice versa....

Can you specify how to set the flash to "second curtain sync"? Thanks in advance

[synapxe]

To answer your copyright question, I don't know? I used google to find the image. I can take it down if someone feels I should. I needed an image for an example.

Here's the way I would look at the photo you attached. It's like 2 separate photos merged together in Photoshop: (1) the ocean, boat, beach, sunset and (2) the people and driftwood.

So lets figure out how to take each photo separately and then togehter.
For photo (1), you don't need flash and indeed flash would be useless since your 430EXII cannot light up the boat nor the sunset even if it flashed at full power. Anyways you figure out what f-stop, shutter-speed and ISO to use (without any flash) for that photo or you let the camera do it. I'll guess it's something like f/8, ISO 400 and SS 1/30th.

For photo (2), if you use f/8, ISO 400 and SS 1/30th, the people will be underexposed. You have to accept that. But lets put the people in a darkened studio, set the camera to f/8, ISO 400, SS 1/30th and figure out how to get them exposed properly. I think it's pretty obvious that we will have to put some light on them and the 430EXII is perfectly suitable for that. Since the people are relatively close, you will not need much flash and there are several ways to get your flash to do what you need. Here are some options:

(a) set the flash for manual mode and use 1/16 power, then take the photo and look at the exposure (remember the camera is set to f/8, ISO 400 SS 1/30th). Adjust the flash output to get what you want (1/32, 1/4, etc).

(b) set the flash for ETTL mode and let the camera decide on how much flash to use first. If the photo is overexposed, adjust FEC (flash exposure compensation) to -1, -2. If photo is underexposed, adjust FEC to +1, +2.

Now you can combine the 2 photos in photoshop (not really!). Now you can go to the beach and just take the photo. Your manual camera settings will expose for the ocean, boat and sunset. Your flash settings, (either M & output or ETTL & FEC) will expose for the people. Take the picture and look at it. You can adjust for the background and/or for the people to get the picture.

My guess is that if you just put the camera in green box mode and took the picture with flash in auto-mode that you would get a good picture as well because the camera/flash would do (b) for you without you thinking about it.

And you do have to point the flash basically forwards. You could tilt towards the people, but you would not have to. I think its obvious that you should not tilt straight up to the sky nor to the void behind you, nor to either side.

And did you violate a copyright by posting that photo?

[Hknivers]

Can you specify how to set the flash to "second curtain sync"? Thanks in advance

Read the manual and you'll find it. :) Also, at least in my camera (eos 30D) i can set it to second curtain sync via Custom Functions...