Why should photographers charge so much?!?!?!

[HoosierJoe]

I'm the budget photographer you mention, and I generally agree with your opinion. I imagine that I'm not as consistent as someone who has been doing it longer and knows how to get great shots every time, and so I only charge a comparatively low amount. I am inexpensive because I can't morally justify charging more.

Odds are I'll get some good shots most times, but I won't necessarily get great shots every time.Your work is quite good. Don't sell yourself short.

[USER876]

Lemme add some numbers here.

First of all, we need to start with the assumption that wedding photography is a full time profession. If you don't believe that, then let me know and we'll back up.

But assuming it's a fulltime profession... and assuming that a photographer shoots maybe 25 weddings a year at 5000 (must be an excellent photographer to charge that price), how much does he actually make?

25 x $5000 = $125k gross

A photographer who brings in 5k per wedding usually has a large marketing budget in order to compete and create brand equity. He needs to establish a high end reputation by advertising in high end wedding magazines. A full page color ad costs $4000 depending on the publication. A full spread costs $8000. Lets say the photographer advertises in 2 magazines. That's $16k already. Lets say he takes out 4 online advertisements at places such as the knot.com or mywedding.com. Those cost 750-1000 a year. Let's say it's 750. That's another 3k right there. Lets say he attends a bridal show. Good ones cost $1000 just to get a booth and a lot more to set up the booth nicely... probably around $2000. That's $3000 for one bridal show. The guy is already up to $21K for his marketing budget. Now what about that kick ass blog and website? A custom website costs $5k plus and a custom blog costs $2k. That's another $7k right there. So the total marketing budget is $28k.

Next is materials. If he's shooting 25 weddings and needs to make 25 albums, it costs $500 to print and bind and another $500 to outsource the design (top quality design and album companies). That's $1000 per wedding just for albums. That's $25k in materials already. Not to mention consultation materials, sample albums, business cards, letterhead, etc. That's probably another $2000 on top of that. That's $27k in materials.

Now on to travel. Some of the weddings will be out of town and the photographer would need to fly for that. Some of them will be in town and he pays gas. Let's assume only 5 are out of town.... so it costs him $1000 for roundtrip plane ticket and hotel and car. That's $5000. The other 20 weddings require $50 for gas and mileage, so that's only $1000. So travel costs $6000.

Now on to equipment. Lets say the photographer buys 1 new body every year, 1 new lens, 1 new flash and 1 new computer. That's not out of the ordinary. In fact, most photographers buy a lot more than that every year in order to keep up to date and in order to not have to worry about old gear dying on them during weddings. 1 new body is $2500. 1 new lens is $1000. 1 new flash is $300. 1 new computer would be $2000. Throw in an extra $1700 for miscellaneous stuff like light stands, umbrellas, batteries, grips, fong dongs, CF cards, bags or whatever... you're up to $7500 a year for equipment.

What about his studio? A photographer that charges $5000 per wedding usually needs at least a studio to meet with his clients in order to maintain that high end image. A small 1000 square foot studio in San Diego would probably cost $2000 a month. That's $24K per year.

Then there's business insurance, health insurance, professional memberships and conventions/workshops etc. A single workshop these days costs $1000 on average. Let's say he goes to 2 workshops and 1 convention per year. The convention costs another $1000. That's $3000 already. Health insurance for a family of 4 costs $500 per month. That's $6000. The business insurance and memberships probably total to $1000 per year. That's a total of $10K.

Okay so let's total all of that up:

Marketing - $28K
Materials - $27K
Travel - $6000
Equipment - $7500
Studio - $24K
Insurance & Memberships - $10K

That's a total of $102500 in expenses.
Granted, not everyone has a studio and not everyone spends that much in marketing ... So let's assume this photographer is a very good business person and is able to minimize expenses. So let's generously lop off $40K off of that in expenses.

That's still $62500 in expenses.
So the photographer would gross $125k but only net about $65K per year with no 401K or stock options or anything like that. That's also putting away 0 for the business.

Is that really too much to pay for someone who produces excellent work? I don't think so. I don't think there's any "humanitarian" aspect involved here. A photographer who produces excellent work deserves to make that much AT LEAST. I wouldn't begrudge a photographer for charging 6k or 7k or 8k because really the people who are excellent and at the top ... very top of their profession DESERVE to make at least six figures... and the truth is, in wedding photography they are not.

Then what about the photographers who are only charging 2k or 3k per wedding but produce excellent work? 1) They're just starting out and will get to the 5K range eventually, or 2) They haven't discovered enough about their business to pay themselves a decent salary. 3) They're not good marketers or have a poor personality.

Don't most photographers shoot maybe 50 weddings a yr? 25 is kind of light?

[bnlearle]

Don't most photographers shoot maybe 50 weddings a yr? 25 is kind of light?
Nope. Most don't shoot 25 even. Can't remember the exact number, but I think the national average for wedding photographers was somewhere around 10.

[yanchula81]

Nope. Most don't shoot 25 even. Can't remember the exact number, but I think the national average for wedding photographers was somewhere around 10.
I believe that. I spend all night editing photo's and I have such a massive headache I don't want to do it for a month.

[tim]

I photograph 20-30 weddings per year, to do more i'd want a staff and extra photographers. As it is I can do most of it myself, but have an assistant do some processing just to make my life easier.

[form]

I don't make enough money from my work to hire anyone, so I do everything on my own. I do roughly the same amount of work (but more photography and less processing) as higher quality wedding shooters do - but I do about 4x as many weddings on average, though many of them are not full weddings but only receptions or pre/post wedding photos. I probably photograph 50-60 wedding Couples (not full weddings) within a year's time.

[form]

There are other local photographers with good reputations, such as a guy named Todd Wilson, who make it impossible for me to charge more than I do. His 2 hour package with 75 prints and unlimited photos on disc is $298, which is technically offering more than I do (though I retouch my photos more). This is a good "budget" package, fairly representative of the low end of the wedding photography market in Las Vegas.

He is much better known than me in local wedding circles, and has a really glowing reputation considering the very average work I've seen associated with him. Because I'm less known and I don't offer prints with my standard rate (just retouched photos on DVD), I can't charge even as much as he does, which is really very little.

To charge more would force me out of the budget sector and into the medium-sized boys' arena, but I would still just be offering DVDs with no prints or albums. I think that the DVD-only offering is most appealing to budget couples, while most others tend to want prints and albums. Therefore, if I increased my prices my offering would no longer be competitive.

Make sense?

By the way, does anyone know a good album designing tool and/or a good manufacturer who offers online album creation by bride & groom?

[yanchula81]

There are other local photographers with good reputations, such as a guy named Todd Wilson, who make it impossible for me to charge more than I do. His 2 hour package with 75 prints and unlimited photos on disc is $298, which is technically offering more than I do (though I retouch my photos more). This is a good "budget" package, fairly representative of the low end of the wedding photography market in Las Vegas.

He is much better known than me in local wedding circles, and has a really glowing reputation considering the very average work I've seen associated with him. Because I'm less known and I don't offer prints with my standard rate (just retouched photos on DVD), I can't charge even as much as he does, which is really very little.

To charge more would force me out of the budget sector and into the medium-sized boys' arena, but I would still just be offering DVDs with no prints or albums. I think that the DVD-only offering is most appealing to budget couples, while most others tend to want prints and albums. Therefore, if I increased my prices my offering would no longer be competitive.

Make sense?

By the way, does anyone know a good album designing tool and/or a good manufacturer who offers online album creation by bride & groom?
just give me the word, i'll have people go take care of him :p

[sapearl]

Sad to say, many of us face this all the time: the undercutter, the lowballer, the budget shooter......

Here is where you have to really pitch and sell yourself then. Demonstrate to the public that you are more expensive because you give more service, better service, and a more varied product. He is not making it impossible for you to charge more - YOU are. YOU just have to figure out how to compete better and move up.

If his work is so average, then why is his rep so glowing? You probably produce better quality. Charge more, show this to the public. There will always be people who want better than bargain basement.

So the question is Joey, do you really want to always appeal to just the bargain basement sector and limit yourself, or do you want to start moving up into the midgrange where you probably have the ability to compete ;)? - Stu

There are other local photographers with good reputations, such as a guy named Todd Wilson, who make it impossible for me to charge more than I do. His 2 hour package with 75 prints and unlimited photos on disc is $298, which is technically offering more than I do (though I retouch my photos more). This is a good "budget" package, fairly representative of the low end of the wedding photography market in Las Vegas.

He is much better known than me in local wedding circles, and has a really glowing reputation considering the very average work I've seen associated with him. Because I'm less known and I don't offer prints with my standard rate (just retouched photos on DVD), I can't charge even as much as he does, which is really very little.

To charge more would force me out of the budget sector and into the medium-sized boys' arena, but I would still just be offering DVDs with no prints or albums. I think that the DVD-only offering is most appealing to budget couples, while most others tend to want prints and albums. Therefore, if I increased my prices my offering would no longer be competitive.

Make sense?

By the way, does anyone know a good album designing tool and/or a good manufacturer who offers online album creation by bride & groom?

[USER876]

That sounds right. I am currently planning a wedding, and when I go on wedding forums, a lot of people are on a strict budget and just want the pictures on DVD. Funny thing is......is my area (tri state), most photographers don't want to give away the files, they would rather sell prints and albums, so they charge a lot for the DVD. A lot of brides/grooms make their albums using my publisher or mpix from what I have seen, but most photographers here don't retouch any of those pics on the DVD, just do color correction....so you lose that if you don't let them make your album for you.

[form]

Well I do vary from the norm budget shooters because I do moderate retouching, and that is my primary selling point: Offering a more finished product for the same rate.

However, I don't offer more services, and my service is not really better, and my product isn't really more varied. I don't offer albums or prints standard, or even an online proofing system (I've been considering that). The only thing I do better than my competition around the same price is retouching the photos.

Yes that's how I understand it: Budget shooters tend to give away the digital images and sometimes addon prints or albums; however, higher end shooters tend to charge extra for the digital images or force a print/album package on the client and include some photos on DVD as a side.

A few days ago I met someone who coordinates the wedding vendors with clients, and when, in the last 5 minutes of our meeting, she referred to me as "affordable," it bothered me a bit. No, I don't want to stay there forever, but to move up I first have to do better work that justifies a different descriptive term.

[sapearl]

That is exactly what I do - sell album packages and enlargements. By doing that I am cutting out the budget shoppers and aiming for the high middle crowd. I'd much rather shoot a few higher priced wedding packages every year than a large number of low packages.

And as you've indicated, I only retouch, further post process and enhance those shots that have been selected for albums or enlargement. Beyond global adjustments, I'm not going to invest that amount of time in 400 - 500 images.

That sounds right. I am currently planning a wedding, and when I go on wedding forums, a lot of people are on a strict budget and just want the pictures on DVD. Funny thing is......is my area (tri state), most photographers don't want to give away the files, they would rather sell prints and albums, so they charge a lot for the DVD. A lot of brides/grooms make their albums using my publisher or mpix from what I have seen, but most photographers here don't retouch any of those pics on the DVD, just do color correction....so you lose that if you don't let them make your album for you.

[harroz]

There is a saying I say...
2 photographers live in a town, 1 everyone knows but he's the worse photographer in the world, the other is an incredible photographer, but he's never marketed himself so no one knows he exists. Obviously the 1st gets all the work because everyone knows how to get in contact with him.
Thats the power of marketing. So if your work is better, which I have no doubt it is, then you really need to get it out there. I'm sure there is room there for more than just the basic package.

[form]

I've tried assembling bigger packages but without online client proofing (which I will probably provide sometime soon), the package situation has never been very good for me to manage. Albums are another scary thing for me altogether.

I have actually marketed other packages before (prints and even albums) but nobody who visited my site wanted them. They just wanted a CD of the photos.

[harroz]

Maybe online proofing is what you really need, I'm guessing most of your clients are from out of town?, this would explain the cd thing as they probably couldn't see a way of doing anything else easily, so proofing would be a lot of help for you and them

win/win:-)

[tim]

There are other local photographers with good reputations, such as a guy named Todd Wilson, who make it impossible for me to charge more than I do. His 2 hour package with 75 prints and unlimited photos on disc is $298, which is technically offering more than I do (though I retouch my photos more). This is a good "budget" package, fairly representative of the low end of the wedding photography market in Las Vegas.

He is much better known than me in local wedding circles, and has a really glowing reputation considering the very average work I've seen associated with him. Because I'm less known and I don't offer prints with my standard rate (just retouched photos on DVD), I can't charge even as much as he does, which is really very little.

To charge more would force me out of the budget sector and into the medium-sized boys' arena, but I would still just be offering DVDs with no prints or albums. I think that the DVD-only offering is most appealing to budget couples, while most others tend to want prints and albums. Therefore, if I increased my prices my offering would no longer be competitive.

I'm sure there are budget photographers around in my area (no idea really), yet I still book up every Saturday in summer, and so do photographers more expensive than me. The only thing holding you back is you. Well, maybe your photography, I have no idea, but mostly you.

[form]

Well, I'm going to have to up my prices about $5 somewhere to make up for the cost of printing on cds and mailing them in nice tin cases...maybe my first hour will go up to $105.

[bnlearle]

You need a more impressive site. You need online proofing/purchasing. If you can afford it, Showit Sites is pretty freaking awesome. If not, even a $100 blu site will work. Photocart and Smugmug are good, cheap ways to have online viewing/purchasing. Smugmug being the cheaper option (at $150 a year).

Make those two changes and I think a LOT will be different for you.

[tim]

$5, lol. When I raise my prices it's by at least 10%. The shortest package I do is a 4 hour CD only, and that's for midweek only, it's still $375/hr. Per hour it's probably my highest priced package, when you count post processing time.

Listen to Bobby.

[form]

My site is better in some ways than other sites of people who charge $1k-$3k for their services (and get business too), so that's not top priority. I just bought a printer and printable DVDs (and more tin dvd cases) to make my product look more finished - which buck I'm going to have to pass onto the client to the tune of a $5 increase for the first hour.

What makes photocart better if it's more expensive? I haven't wanted to get involved in client proofing because it's another added expense (just like the printing). How quick would it pay for itself? I'm assuming that it would open up the doors to family members and friends browsing through the photos and placing orders for them.

I'm an incremental type of guy; started at $75/hour, moved up to $100 for the first hour and $75 each additional, now I'll move up to $105 and $75. I don't offer what you do, so I can't try to imitate you in prices.

[tim]

Until you start offering prints and albums you're going to stay a budget photographer.

[form]

Okay. I'm not going to have time for weddings starting in August anyway, so no reason to accelerate my expenses and offerings now.

[harroz]

I think you might be missing something here that is quite important- marketing.

A website IS peoples first view of you, their first impression, that is how they can tell if you're worth more $ or not. If you have got over that hurdle before they have even meet you then you are 9/10ths of the way there.

just my 2c ;-)

[form]

Yes and people generally find my website okay or good. They can see my work and what I offer. I am not marketing myself as a premier photographer and I am NOT a premier photographer - Joe Buissink is and his website is very good.

I signed up for a free trial of the smugmug pro system, and it looks good so far. I'm probably going to buy it. I'm already uploading an album (password protected) of wedding photos from a recent couple's shoot, and have informed them of it, offering to remove it immediately if they request. There were a lot of family members and friends present at that wedding, so it was my first choice to use as a pilot for this. I also asked the couple to let people know that the printable photos are available online.

Does this make me more of a professional now?

[harroz]

haha, mate you were a professional before that!, we're all just trying to help. sorry, I type as I think sometimes when I'm doing something else and so thats how it comes out. I personally don't have any knowledge of smugsmug apart from seeing that little logo on peoples sites sometimes.

[form]

I haven't been willing to spend on marketing because I am doing my best to keep costs low. I just purchased about $260 worth of "accessories" in the last week, all of which are business expenses that effectively have increased the cost of being a wedding photographer (bag for my stands, printable DVDs, tin cd cases and a printer), and this is another expense. My goal in keeping overhead low is to keep prices down and therefore satisfy the two most important people involved: Me and my clients.

If I invest too much money in consumables or monthly things like advertising costs, then I would absolutely have no choice but to increase my rates just to make as much as I do now. To me, that helps nobody but the advertisers.

I'm actually getting a small presence on theknot.com by accident, and I'm liking it; it has already yielded me about 4-5 wedding contracts in one week. My first real, significant word-of-mouth advertisement that has done something.

[tim]

Without investment your business won't grow. I had to get a 10-22 today, as my 12-24 failed recently and I have an indoor wedding at a small location. I paid about US$750. Wish I didn't have to, but I do.

[form]

Why not get a Tokina 11-16?

I have invested a lot in my lenses, cameras, and flash equipment and accessories. A lot. For me. My camera equipment is worth more than everything else I own (including the car). I HAVE invested - in what will improve the quality of my photos by giving me more versatility. And I still need to invest another $3500 in lenses before I actually have all I really want and need (35L, 85L, 16-35L). I believe in the importance of equipment to open up as many doors as possible...so that's where I've focused my money.

I have invested. Just not in advertising.

[tim]

I had a Tokina, it failed, so did the Tamron - both unused for long periods. I figured the Canon should be more reliable.

My camera gear's worth more than my car too, though not more than my house luckily!

[form]

I don't really understand what's stopping you from getting a 5D and a 16-35L.

[Willie]

I haven't been willing to spend on marketing because I am doing my best to keep costs low. I just purchased about $260 worth of "accessories" in the last week, all of which are business expenses that effectively have increased the cost of being a wedding photographer (bag for my stands, printable DVDs, tin cd cases and a printer), and this is another expense. My goal in keeping overhead low is to keep prices down and therefore satisfy the two most important people involved: Me and my clients.

If I invest too much money in consumables or monthly things like advertising costs, then I would absolutely have no choice but to increase my rates just to make as much as I do now. To me, that helps nobody but the advertisers.

I'm actually getting a small presence on theknot.com by accident, and I'm liking it; it has already yielded me about 4-5 wedding contracts in one week. My first real, significant word-of-mouth advertisement that has done something.

In one of your other posts, I advised you to not get the 5D. It isn't making you any more money. If you really want this business to succeed, you should take that money and put it in marketing. That's where you'll see a return.

And stop talking about the 35L and 85L. They're not going to help either. Spend your money like a savvy business owner, not a hobbyist. That's probably why Tim doesn't have a 5D yet.

[harroz]

no truer words. If I had a 1000d and a kit lens, and had an extra $500 to spend to build my business I would spend it on marketing-period.

This in turn would create more traffic, and more bookings, which creates more income, which lets me upgrade my gear.

Look at it this way- I'm guessing most people you shoot in Las Vegas come from somewhere else, they go there from all over to get married right?. If I was to go to Las Vegas to get married, I'd scour the internet for a photographer, I'd hire someone who has a good website with good images because to me this portrays that they are professional in what they do, if they were priced too low I'd ask myself why? and probably wouldn't hire them. first impressions count.

In one of your other posts, I advised you to not get the 5D. It isn't making you any more money. If you really want this business to succeed, you should take that money and put it in marketing. That's where you'll see a return.

And stop talking about the 35L and 85L. They're not going to help either. Spend your money like a savvy business owner, not a hobbyist. That's probably why Tim doesn't have a 5D yet.

[tim]

I don't really understand what's stopping you from getting a 5D and a 16-35L.

I don't need them, that's what's stopping me. I can do essentially the same thing with a 40D and a 10-22.

[form]

..No you can't. You get f/2.8 and better depth of field control. But I myself like narrow DoF, so that's my preference.

I never claimed to be a business expert, but I care more about taking better pictures than I do about being a better businessman. I don't care about business; I like photography. And, when my work is better, it DOES allow me to charge more.

[bnlearle]

I really want to help you but I'm starting to wonder if you just want to vent here - not apply new changes. Just a thought I'm having...

As far as the 40D/10-22 vs 5D/16-35 goes. With such wide lenses, DOF becomes less intense. Unless I have someone a few inches away from my lens with good distance behind them, nearly everything is in focus. The 24-70 - closer to the 70 end - is where 2.8 zooms just start to give you a nice, wide open bokeh. And just so you know, I HATE the 40D and love my 5D+16-35 setup ;)

Seriously though, I think your business can succeed more if you implement some changes. If not, I don't see much changing for you :(

Bobby

[tim]

Camera equipment is about opinions, I stated mine. Like Bobby said DOF at wide angles is huge, everything's in focus.

Since you don't care about business I would suggest you close yours down and work for someone else. Wedding photography is 90% business 10% photography.

[randplaty]

Camera equipment is about opinions, I stated mine. Like Bobby said DOF at wide angles is huge, everything's in focus.

Since you don't care about business I would suggest you close yours down and work for someone else. Wedding photography is 90% business 10% photography.

To be fair, I don't think form ever asked for business advice. He was merely telling us where his business was and why he wants to work on his photography. We told him that his photos were good and that he could charge more than $1000.

We don't know every market, so lets not pretend our market is the exact same as forms. It is probably very different shooting quick weddings at Vegas hotels.

[form]

I do occasionally work for someone else, a local vendor for dj's, videography and photography. When I do, I often enjoy it - even though it pays less overall, I really only have to take the photos, not process or handle the business. Then I can freely retouch any photos I want for my portfolio afterward. Works great!

I would 1. work for someone else if I could (I've said before that I want to work under a more experienced photographer), or 2. partner up another photographer if I could find someone I wanted to work with (i.e. not a 55 year old man just breaking into wedding photography himself and looking to find a young, naive patsy to profit off of). Yes, I was contacted by those people a few times when I actively searched for a partner.

A significant number of the local photographers know that I'm available as a second if they need twice the manpower for a job. I've been contacted once or twice for such jobs but I was always already booked for that date.

Yes that's true, 16-35L would not give much DoF difference - BUT it would be f/2.8, good for light gathering. It's one reason I'm planning on buying one someday after I get a 35L and 85L.

[sapearl]

I understand where you're coming from Joey - I much prefer actual photography, post processing and fine print making over book keeping and taxes any tday - but it has to be a mix of both if you eventually want to be at least moderateley successful.

If you want to get ahead, make more money and stop being upset about the guys that keep beating you out in the marketplace, then you better start caring about business. Ignore the marketplace and you'll never understand why you keep losing out. That's the mature approach.

[quote=form;7305374......I never claimed to be a business expert, but I care more about taking better pictures than I do about being a better businessman. I don't care about business; I like photography. And, when my work is better, it DOES allow me to charge more.[/quote]

[form]

They're really not beating me out in the marketplace: I am booked for many days thru August 1, and I will get some other bookings as time goes on. I'm not lacking in volume, especially now that I have a viable portfolio.

I have an inner desire to charge more and move up, but a lack of desire to engage full wedding services that would take up more of my time, when I'm going to be a full time student later this year and for about 1.5-2 years afterward. To me, it would be impractical to make the jump this year and offer prints and album packages. Maybe in a few years when I have finished school and have more time available, I can continue heading in that direction if I want to still be my own business person while being employed elsewhere full time. But even then, I can't fathom making more than about $20k/year doing weddings, which isn't enough to live on. Thankfully, I should have another steady job then and anything I make with weddings will be icing.

So what I AM doing, is trying to consider the options that are not too expensive and which don't significantly increase the amount of time I have to put into any given wedding - and the online proofing and print sales thing is a good way. Once the photos are retouched, all I have to do is upload them to the appropriate folder and inform the clients, and that takes almost no time.

[tim]

One word: outsourcing.

[sapearl]

This is a good idea Joey - it's almost the bare minimum that clients expect these days even if you don't offer albums. It gives another online presence and credibility, and it doesn't have to cost much at all.

I use PBase which is a very low tech way to go, and not even automated like many of the others. But it gets my proofs online, and quickly, and enables the clients' family and friends an easy way of seeing the shots from anywhere. It has definately helped my business and increased my orders.

.......So what I AM doing, is trying to consider the options that are not too expensive and which don't significantly increase the amount of time I have to put into any given wedding - and the online proofing and print sales thing is a good way. Once the photos are retouched, all I have to do is upload them to the appropriate folder and inform the clients, and that takes almost no time.

[Jmm7]

Bobby I just want to say that you inspired me. I just pay attention to what David Jay, Jeff Ascough, you and all the good guys have to say. I just LOVE people that think positive and push this world forward.

Thanks, more sooner than later I will be in league.

Jmm7

[bobbyz]

Read the whole thread. Real useful information. Thanks to everyone and Bobby for starting it.

[sapearl]

Anybody know if Jay is still shooting weddings or doing the lecture circuit now?

Bobby I just want to say that you inspired me. I just pay attention to what David Jay, Jeff Ascough, you and all the good guys have to say. I just LOVE people that think positive and push this world forward.

Thanks, more sooner than later I will be in league.

Jmm7

[bnlearle]

Jmm7 and bobbyz, so glad that this thread helped some of you!

Sapearl, no, he's not a wedding photographer anymore...

However, DJ's one of my close friends. He STILL gives me - a full time pro - incredible tips, advice, help... More than any working pro I know. And I know some freaking good current pros ;) The dude is a freaking vault of knowledge and insight...

Bobby

[sapearl]

Thanks for that info on DJ Bobby - appreciate it ;). He was doing quite well for a time as a successful high end shooter... any idea why he quit?

......Sapearl, no, he's not a wedding photographer anymore...

However, DJ's one of my close friends. He STILL gives me - a full time pro - incredible tips, advice, help... More than any working pro I know. And I know some freaking good current pros ;) The dude is a freaking vault of knowledge and insight...

Bobby

[bnlearle]

Yeah... he was doing enviously well! That scumbag!!! :P

Seriously though, he's full time creating the raddest website software in the flippin world - showit sites. (http://showitfast.com) There's actually a free version where you can make your own website with the software for nothing. It's seriously good stuff.

And I only get paid $50 every time I say post about it :P

My site (http://www.bobbyearle.com) is a showit site, for the record ;)

Bobby