Another "its all moving too fast" thread

[JDMist3hFastar]

Hey guys, as of recent, people have decided that my photos are good enough for them to buy. Basically, my friend is a semi-pro snowboarder and I would go to the mountains and take photos of him. He sent those photos to some of his sponsors and now they want me as their photographer. My first real job for them is for an SIA (ski/snowboard industry trade show in Vegas) afterparty as well as an on mountian event the following day. I have done some stuff for Red Bull and other companies before but that was a set rate for a movie premier. I feel like this is all moving super quickly so there were a couple questions I would like to ask.

In regards to the on mountian portion:

We have agreed on a number of 900 dollars (to be paid by the radio station sponsoring the event) for the on mountian portion of this trip. They will also be covering my accomidations for three days. They have asked me to send them a contract. This is the most worrying part because I have never written one. Is there somewhere for me to get a template? Would you assume the 900 includes whatever use of the photographs they want or would you say that is for my time and the usage is extra? Do I charge extra for all the time I will put into photoshopping these photos?

In regards to the after party:

I have agreed to take payment in the form of 900 dollars worth of this companies product as well as them paying for all of my travel expenses. Do I pay for it out of pocket and then get paid back?


In general:

Anyone have any tips for someone in a situation like mine? THANKS!

[Mike Hoyer]

Won't go ove everything with you, but generally I would invoice them for expenses after the fact. Maybe get your plane ticket or whatever transport you are using to get there paid up front, but as far as food and other expenses go, keep all the receipts and invoice them for that.

As far as getting paid in 900 dollars worth of equipment, I assume this means no "real" money? Is that a good deal to you...?

[MikeI]

I have no advice for you on how to proceed, but congrats on landing a great gig!!

[skifurthur]

When in doubt, ask.

Each company should have travel reimbursement policies in place. Ask the company what their policy is. It might be that they have people who book that travel and rooms for them and they are billed directly for that. I know when I was working in that world every snowsports company did it a little different.

[JDMist3hFastar]

As far as getting paid in 900 dollars worth of equipment, I assume this means no "real" money? Is that a good deal to you...?

Well I am getting paid 900 cash and given 900 worth of equipment. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

[Mike Hoyer]

Sorry, didn't notice the cash bit!

[jrm27]

Hope that means a new pair of skiis or something! Congrats man. Sounds like a fantastic gig.

[Mike Hoyer]

To be honest, with your questions regarding their usage of the pictures, it's best to clarify with them first. Give them a call or whatever, and once it's clear then we can advise if the price is fair etc.

[JDMist3hFastar]

To be honest, with your questions regarding their usage of the pictures, it's best to clarify with them first. Give them a call or whatever, and once it's clear then we can advise if the price is fair etc.

OK, I just got off the phone with Radio 107.9 after talking usage with them. It sounded like to me, they were just going to use the stuff for their website in an upcoming promotion for an event in March. I dont think I need to charge them extra for that. They have asked me to send over what I say they can use the photos for in writing. Anyone have any sort of template for this? I'd like to see how a professional words this. My next issue though is the ski area. He seemed to think that the ski area had some bigger plans for the photos. He thinks they wanted to use them in ads and what not. I imagine I should be charging more for something like that. What do you guys think?

[Ray Marrero]

Hey,

Good that things are working for you. While you have momentum, read this book: Best Business Practices for Photographers (http://www.amazon.com/Best-Business-Practices-Photographers-Harrington/dp/1598633155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231979426&sr=8-1) by John Harrington (http://www.johnharrington.com/)

It has alot of answers. I keep it close for reference, every photographer should have a copy.

[JDMist3hFastar]

Hey,

Good that things are working for you. While you have momentum, read this book: Best Business Practices for Photographers (http://www.amazon.com/Best-Business-Practices-Photographers-Harrington/dp/1598633155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231979426&sr=8-1) by John Harrington (http://www.johnharrington.com/)

It has alot of answers. I keep it close for reference, every photographer should have a copy.

I will do that for sure. This shoot is coming up in like two weeks though. Anyone have some advice for me on what to do about usage?

[ChrisRabior]

Things to consider for usage:

Limited exclusivity for a period of X years. It would suck for you to sign away rights for 1800 + travel expenses on pictures of someone who may one day become the future of snowboarding like Tony Hawk was for skateboarding. They're certainly want exclusive rights for a good length of time, but you should keep the option of future use on your own terms.

KEEP YOUR COPYRIGHT. Make sure everyone's clear that they're getting the license to use the photos for print/publication/promotion/etc and not getting the actual copyright and full ownership of the files. May require you to explain the difference, but it's better than not owning your own creation.

I've frequently heard of contracts that include a clause where there the license for use is not valid until payment is received in part or in full, or at least includes a specific time frame for payment (license validity hinges on payment being made in full by :date:).

Personally, I think you'd be well off to hit Borders or the local book store and browse for photography licensing and photography business books that might have a contract template you can work off of. (or go the really sure fire way and hook up with a local attorney)

[JDMist3hFastar]

Things to consider for usage:
Limited exclusivity for a period of X years. It would suck for you to sign away rights for 1800 + travel expenses on pictures of someone who may one day become the future of snowboarding like Tony Hawk was for skateboarding. They're certainly want exclusive rights for a good length of time, but you should keep the option of future use on your own terms.

Some really helpful info here, thanks a lot! A couple of the athletes involved actually are some of the biggest names in the industry. I think its a secret though so I wont get into it. To be honest though, I really don't think they have had to deal with photographers that often because they haven't mentioned what kind of rights they are looking for. If I didn't even mention exclusivity in the usage contract, would that then mean that they didn't have any exclusive rights? I was actually told that if the photos came out well, I would be allowed to sell them to the riders sponsors. Is that the norm?


KEEP YOUR COPYRIGHT. Make sure everyone's clear that they're getting the license to use the photos for print/publication/promotion/etc and not getting the actual copyright and full ownership of the files. May require you to explain the difference, but it's better than not owning your own creation.


Would I just say something like "I retain my copyright on all images produced at said event" or something of that nature? I'm not even sure I understand the difference between the license and the copyright :oops:


I've frequently heard of contracts that include a clause where there the license for use is not valid until payment is received in part or in full, or at least includes a specific time frame for payment (license validity hinges on payment being made in full by :date:).


I like this idea and will definitely include this, thanks!

[Ray Marrero]

hey again,

copyright implies ownership... you, the photographer, use your creative genius, your expensive equipment, your God given talent, your time, your experience and a little luck to create the images .... therefore you own the image.

for a fee . . . you grant them permission to use your image for a specified period of time on a specified medium. i.e.: 1 year, on print, no bigger than a quarter page, only in the USA.

you can grant any permission you want and of course the more you grant i.e.: on website, on magazines, on billboards, on TV, on brochures, on catalogs etc.....
the higher the usage fee.

It is totally up to you since you own the image, you can grant any usage rights you want and charge what you think your worth...

remember to separate usage fees from creative fees... those are two different fees.

i.e.: creative fee: for putting a shoot together... getting the right equipment, models, location, assistants, and anything you need to create the image.

usage fee: like before, you must ask... How are they going to use the image? And for how long?

hope this helps.

[Floriantrojer.com]

I agree, make sure you retain your copyright.

As for your contract: I'm sure there's tons of templates floating around the net, may aswell try googling some.

It basically just exists to have everything in writing. What can be done, what can't. Make sure you think carefully and also word it carefully. Maybe show it to the guys here before sending it off.

Make sure it includes a phrase like "I retain the full copyright of all images taken during the events for XYZ company, and grant XYZ company to use the imagery taken at billboards, on their website, my brothers cushion and my dog's chain" :D

Anyways, you probably don't want to be specific on the usage, so maybe restrict it to that station itself and say they have exclusive usage for a number of months, or years. As you feel it will be best.

If you do not want the skiing area to use them, make sure you include something like "redistrubation of the photos to others is prohibited, a new contract as to be worked out for that", or whatever.

Again, don't quote me on the writing, I'm just typing away what comes to my mind can be important.

--

Also make sure you state how much and what you get for your work in the contract (that's kinda obvious anyways).

Congrats, and enjoy.

[Rubi Jane]

To help you with the contract portion, take a look at Blink Bid (http://blinkbid.com/) it's an estimate/invoicing tool and allows you to detail usage terms, payment terms as well as itemized items for the job. There's a cover page where you can include other aspects.

I have contracts for my portraits and wedding clients but I use Blink Bid for commercial jobs. Each job is different and the terms certainly vary based on what's negotiated, but the elements are same. There's a free download period to try it out.

For usage fees, try FotoQuote Pro (http://www.cradocfotosoftware.com/fotoQuote-Pro/) to get an idea.

Hey, congrats on landing an excited gig!

[JDMist3hFastar]

this info is great guys. Would you guys charge for the post processing time? I charged 15 an hour when I did it for a photographer back home.

[JDMist3hFastar]

This is coming up in 2 days...AHH! Any last minute tips?

[XterraJohn]

Am I the only one wondering how this turned out?!

[bigfatty]

I just found this thread but now I feel a little empty and used.....

[deletedpenguin]

Yeah, curious as to how it turned out...