Tilt-shift question

[MDJAK]

I think I know what a tilt shift lens does as far as architectural photography does. If you take a picture of a tall building with a regular lens, it appears to be leaning back; is that correct?

Is that all it does? Are they easy to use? How many people have them? Of those who have them, how often do you use them?

[PacAce]

You can also use them so that it seems as if you are effectively increasing the depth-of-field so that near and far objects are more in focus than can be achieved with standard lenses. DOF of the lens really isn't increased, though, although the effect is real. I personally do not have one of these lenses so I can't go into specific details about them.

[DaveG]

I think I know what a tilt shift lens does as far as architectural photography does. If you take a picture of a tall building with a regular lens, it appears to be leaning back; is that correct?

Is that all it does? Are they easy to use? How many people have them? Of those who have them, how often do you use them?

When you shift the lens or as it's called rise it (poor grammar but like a "fly ball" that's the way it is) you use this to control converging parallels, also known as buildings-falling-over-backwards.

The TILT part of the tilt/shift lens allows you to change the plane of depth of field. Normally the depth of field is parallel with the back of the camera. If you could tilt the lens down, while keeping the sensor/film in its original position you would change the depth of field plane to an angle that could follow from near the camera to infinity. Imagine an alpine meadow where the flowers in the foreground are in focus and so are the mountains in the background, and all at f8, not f128.

I had a Nikkor 35mm f2.8 shift lens. As I said it would be for fixing buildings that appeared to be falling over backwards. Very quickly this lens became a one trick pony. How often do you NEED to fix a building like this.

These lenses are not only manual focus they usually are pre-set. That means that there is no mechanical/electrical contact at all between the camera and the lens. I would view the scene wide open and then stop it down to the taking aperture just before I shot. Althoug this was a bit easier than it sounds it wasn't all that quick and I had a 35mm f2 Nikkor that was fully automatic as well and that was the one that went with me. After I realized that I hadn't touched the PC Nikkor in over a year I sold it.

Now the utility of the tilt lenses are another kettle of fish. I could see using that tilt function all of the time. Imagine shooting a three rowed group photo and being able to tilt the lens so all three row came into focus at the same time? Never mind speed here, what speed? And it's digital so yu know that you have the shot and don't have to worry about forgetting to stop down the lens.

Sideways tilt - also possible with these Canon tilt/shift lenses - is very useful. I was shooting with a 4x5 (and all these camera movements come from large format camera with flexible bellows) and was parallel to a wall. It would have been about two meters away to my left and then continued about ten meters. To keep all of this wall in focus would have required a tiny lens opening - and even thenit would be doubtful. With a simple "swing" which is what sideways tilt is properly called, I could keep the entire wall in focus and at a relatively large aperture.

Now this isn't perfect. In that alpine meadow example if you had something that stuck up out of the dpeth of field plane it would be out of focus. So ususally you are using a combination of tilt + a small aperture. But since the small aperture won't usually do it it's the only choice.

I would find a tilt shift Canon lens to be extremely useful. I'd love to have one and the most difficult decision would be to choose between the wide angle/normal/tele since each would have its place.

[robertwgross]

I watched one Canon friend use his tilt-shift lens on a backpacking trip one time. It looked to me to be a hell of a lot of trouble with very little result.

---Bob Gross---

[DaveG]

I watched one Canon friend use his tilt-shift lens on a backpacking trip one time. It looked to me to be a hell of a lot of trouble with very little result.

---Bob Gross---

If you think doing this with a Canon is a lot of trouble try a 4x5 with the image upside down and reversed on the groundglass!

As for whether it's worth it pick up a book on large format photography, look at the posibilities and see if that's still your perspective. Who knows if your friend had a clue as to what he was doing, or whether the tilt shift lens was the right tool for that specific job.

In large format - for me anyway - lens movements were very useful.

[robertwgross]

If you think doing this with a Canon is a lot of trouble try a 4x5 with the image upside down and reversed on the groundglass!

As for whether it's worth it pick up a book on large format photography, look at the posibilities and see if that's still your perspective. Who knows if your friend had a clue as to what he was doing, or whether the tilt shift lens was the right tool for that specific job.

In large format - for me anyway - lens movements were very useful.

Personally, I did not see the point of using a tilt-shift lens on a backpacking trip.

What's worse, I watched one photo workshop instructor set up this kind of stuff with an 8x10 camera. You want to talk about a large piece of work!

I mean, if you are shooting with a digital camera, you can experiment around with tilt and shift and it doesn't cost you anything. Even with 35mm slide film, it was costing me only 25 cents per frame for total film and processing. But this guy with the 8x10 camera... each color frame cost him $20.

---Bob Gross---

[Dante King]

can the same results desired be aquired in PSCS?

[pierrot]

can the same results desired be aquired in PSCS?
Of course not for the DoF without assembling a couple of differently focused shots ( :shock: ).
Correction of converging parallels can be done in PSCS though.

[DaveG]

Personally, I did not see the point of using a tilt-shift lens on a backpacking trip.

What's worse, I watched one photo workshop instructor set up this kind of stuff with an 8x10 camera. You want to talk about a large piece of work!

I mean, if you are shooting with a digital camera, you can experiment around with tilt and shift and it doesn't cost you anything. Even with 35mm slide film, it was costing me only 25 cents per frame for total film and processing. But this guy with the 8x10 camera... each color frame cost him $20.

---Bob Gross---


I have an 8x10 1950 vintage Burke & James. It's wood and when set up is about the size of a 19" TV. It's a lot lighter than it looks as the camera is mostly hollow, but it's still huge. I bring a small foldup tripod chair to sit on so I can view the upside down and reversed image on the ground glass with some kind of comfort, a technique which has completely underwhelmed all my LF friends. Then I put the film holder with the transparency film into the camera, push the shutter, and hope for the best. I spent an hour once and took tow frames which pissed of my wife a whole bunch! And you are right about the $20 per pop.

But large format photography and all the pain that you go through was to support an attitude that has no "that's good enough" in it. 35mm was good enough. Medium format was too "good enough". Large format was as good as you could get it.

Until you've seen an 8x10 transparency or contact print you've seen nothing, and when you have, you understand why people will go through so much trouble. I love digital and my 8x10 and 4x5's are gathering dust; but the control and results that you get from that control and the huge neg are amazing.

[PhotosGuy]

If you think doing this with a Canon is a lot of trouble try a 4x5 with the image upside down and reversed on the groundglass! Add in "cover your head & the cam with a black cloth in sunlight with the temperature at 97 degrees" & we'll really be having fun then! ;-)

[gmitchel]

Personally, I did not see the point of using a tilt-shift lens on a backpacking trip.

What's worse, I watched one photo workshop instructor set up this kind of stuff with an 8x10 camera. You want to talk about a large piece of work!

I mean, if you are shooting with a digital camera, you can experiment around with tilt and shift and it doesn't cost you anything. Even with 35mm slide film, it was costing me only 25 cents per frame for total film and processing. But this guy with the 8x10 camera... each color frame cost him $20.

---Bob Gross---

Actually, a number of top landscape photographers carry them. ;)

They do require experience to use. Their big drawback is dust. The tilt-shift mechanism on the Canon lenses gives you view camera like effects, but it is also prone to dust intrusion.

Cheers,

Mitch

[iwatkins]

A simple use of the lens is to give you a quick and easy panormic tool. You shift fuly to the left, take a shot and then without moving the camera, shift fully to the right and take a shot. Stitch together in PS etc. to give you a nice wide image.

I haven't tried this myself as I don't have a TS lens, but i've seen it done to good effect.

Cheers

Ian

[robertwgross]

can the same results desired be aquired in PSCS?

It depends on how you look at it, literally.

The 8x10 shooter would argue that without any tilt-shift work at the camera, it is hard to get the shot right on the negative. I guess he is kind of a photographic purist.

---Bob Gross---