580EXII settings for Indoor B-Day Party

[AzzKicker]

A very good friend of the family asked if I could take pictures at his Mothers B-Day. I told him yes. The only problem is I'm new to shooting a 1D and I just got my 580EX Flash today. Now I know how to set everything Manually and use the flash more or less. I'm not that N00b. But since this is a party he wants me to just shoot candid moments here and there so my DISTANCE between subjects will be changing. I'm used to posed shots where I can set everything manually. Since this will be indoors should I just set my Camera to M and a high ISO for ambient lighting. Should I set the camerea to something like F2.8 and 1/60 and ISO 800? and let the flash do the rest? Or should I just Set cam to P and bounce off ceilings since it will be indoors in a house with a ceiling around 10-12 ft.

[bohdank]

Set the camera to 1/250... pick an aperture and set the flash to ETTL. Bounce it, you'll be impressed with the output. You might have to do some +- FEC compensating but once dialed in, usually doesn't have to be changed.

EDIT: I forgot ISO 200, higher if you really need it.

[Lotto]

My favorite setting for indoor bounce shot is f4-5.6, 1/30 to 1/125 depends on how much ambient is needed, iso 400. Camera always in M, flash in ETTL with +2/3 FEC and bounce.

[bobbyz]

I am going to be doing same tomorrow and also for the very first time. I agree with Lotto about the ss.

Lotto - What gel you suggest if any?

[sdipirro]

I don't think 1/250 would be necessary unless you're really expecting his mother to be running around! I also wouldn't use f2.8 - just too shallow a DOF and risk too many OOF shots. I'd shoot in M mode at 1/125 and f5.6 -f6.3 and ISO 400 (as a nice compromise), bounce the flash and let it do the rest.

[Lotto]

I have some warming gels but hardly use them. I like the flashed subject against warmer background, kind of preserve the natural mood. If the ceiling is low enough, I can always turn up the shutter speed and blast the BG too.

[sdipirro]

Oh, and make sure the flash is set to ETTL mode...

[dan j]

I don't think 1/250 would be necessary unless you're really expecting his mother to be running around!
I think the reason he suggested 1/250 is so the flash doesn't work as hard/quicker recharge not to stop motion ;)

dan

[dan j]

Oh, and 250th knocks out the ambient light - from the strobist.

dan

[bobbyz]

I think the reason he suggested 1/250 is so the flash doesn't work as hard/quicker recharge not to stop motion ;)

dan

Why would ss effect flash power?

[EOS_JD]

Set the camera to 1/250... pick an aperture and set the flash to ETTL. Bounce it, you'll be impressed with the output. You might have to do some +- FEC compensating but once dialed in, usually doesn't have to be changed.

EDIT: I forgot ISO 200, higher if you really need it.

Why such a high shutter speed? You will kill all the ambient light. (woops just saw the rest of the replies :) )

[AzzKicker]

What is SS?

[bohdank]

Why such a high shutter speed? You will kill all the ambient light.

If you're bouncing, that will effectively wipe out most of the ambient light, anyway. I hate blurry pictures, hence the higher ss/lower ambient light. Also makes WB easier.

[dan j]

Why would ss effect flash power?
I'll guess that it's because the ETTL flash duration somewhat matches the SS.

Here's a link to the strobists blog. http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-balancing-flash-and.html

The 13th paragraph talks about how 250th is good for recharge and batteries. I've read it other places too, but I don't have time to look it up.

dan <---- not a flash expert - obviously ;)

[EOS_JD]

As far as I was aware only the aperture affects flash power. SS Only affects the ambient light which is what the above example provides - a drop of 2 stops of ambient light. Not sure though why this would mean faster recycling though? Maybe someone who knows more can answer that one :)

[Zoodles]

What's wrong with Tv at 1/125 or 1/250 and ISO 400?

[AzzKicker]

ahh it means Shutter Speed DUH.

[René Damkot]

Here's a good read: http://planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/

[EOS_JD]

What's wrong with Tv at 1/125 or 1/250 and ISO 400?

Indoors you probably need a 400 or 800 ISO to get even 1/60th. Shooting at 125 or 250 will under expose the ambient light leaving your subject well exposed but a dark background.

Getting some ambient light will lift the feel of the image.

Don't get me wrong you may want to kill ambient then 250 is fine :)

[bobbyz]

What's wrong with Tv at 1/125 or 1/250 and ISO 400?

Atleast canon's work better with camera in manual exposure mode. Flash can be in eTTL.

[Zoodles]

I agree - was just thinking for the OP who doesn't seem too comfortable to operate in 'M'.
I'd go manual myslef...

[EOS_JD]

Yes M mode for the camera.

[bobbyz]

I'll guess that it's because the ETTL flash duration somewhat matches the SS.

Here's a link to the strobists blog. http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-balancing-flash-and.html

The 13th paragraph talks about how 250th is good for recharge and batteries. I've read it other places too, but I don't have time to look it up.

dan <---- not a flash expert - obviously ;)

You are confusing things. It is the aperture not the shutter speed which effects how much power flash puts out which in turn affects the recycle times.

From the link you posted, if ambient is 1/60 at f4, and you want 2 stops more from flash, you need f8 at 1/60. Now with f8, flash has to put more power. You can reduce f-stop to f4 but increase ss to 1/250 from 1/60,w hich gives you same exposure from flash but now flash is putting out less power as it is at f4.

[Curtis N]

A systematic approach to bounced flash:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=177622

[AzzKicker]

M I shoot 100% of the time with sports. But Flash is new to me so thats why I was asking. i'll just stick to M with the recommended settings some of you gave and just fine tune from there and let flash do rest.

[EOS_JD]

You are confusing things. It is the aperture not the shutter speed which effects how much power flash puts out which in turn affects the recycle times.

From the link you posted, if ambient is 1/60 at f4, and you want 2 stops more from flash, you need f8 at 1/60. Now with f8, flash has to put more power. You can reduce f-stop to f4 but increase ss to 1/250 from 1/60,w hich gives you same exposure from flash but now flash is putting out less power as it is at f4.

Well explained Bobby :) Yes I should have thought of that too :)

[AzzKicker]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice. The party went fine. Birthday Pics are in my rubenzamora.com gallery. Some of them came out a little blown out on the faces but the majority were good imo.

[msowsun]

Your Pics look great. What ISO, aperture and shutter did you use?

[AzzKicker]

I was at ISO400, F5.6, 1/80 & 1/125 at times.

[laurent]

I was at ISO400, F5.6, 1/80 & 1/125 at times.

Good it worked out. Did you do any FEC? I assume M on cam and ettl on the flash.

[AzzKicker]

Good it worked out. Did you do any FEC? I assume M on cam and ettl on the flash.


Oh ya, Forgot to add.


I had FEC +2/3 and +1/3 at times as well. Most of the time +2/3 and yes Flash on TTL and Cam on M

[michillebaker]

Would this also be the same if you were using a 430ex II flash? This is what i have and I've been using the other method (the faster shutter speed) and have been getting a lot of blown out spots on my photo's.

My favorite setting for indoor bounce shot is f4-5.6, 1/30 to 1/125 depends on how much ambient is needed, iso 400. Camera always in M, flash in ETTL with +2/3 FEC and bounce.

[Curtis N]

Michelle,

"Blown out spots" could be from any number of causes.

Post a few samples with EXIF and we'll go from there.

[bobbyz]

I went through same thing this weekend. Lucky the false ceiling was quite low and I got nice bounce (atleast I think I did, will post some pictures later). Problem I ran into was when shooting kids I sat on the floor and I had to crank FEC to get right exposure. I thoughts eTTL would take care of it but guess not.

I was using camera (1dmk2) in manual mode, like ISO400, f5.6, 1/60 to 1/125 with flash in eTTL, FEC from +1 to +1 2/3. I was using business card as an index card with RRS wedding pro bracket. It was pain to change from lasdscape to portrait as I had to rotate my flash all the time (550ex). Didn't get any chance to try CTO gels. Maybe next time.

I am going to make Chuck Gardner's bounce card and see if it helps or not.

[Wilt]

As far as I was aware only the aperture affects flash power. SS Only affects the ambient light which is what the above example provides - a drop of 2 stops of ambient light. Not sure though why this would mean faster recycling though? Maybe someone who knows more can answer that one :)

It wouldn't :(

[AlanU]

If you use a Joe demb flipit you'll find that you can change landscape to portrait in seconds. I feel no need to buy a bracket with the flipit. Joe also has a gel holder for his system too that can be flipped on and off in seconds (next purchase when I pick up #2 flipit system.

With my 5D I've taken hundreds of photos at friend/family gatherings and with the full frame I tend to shoot f/3.5 to f/4 with phenominal results. I'll typically use 1/125 to 1/200 SS, ISO 320. I find I'll get OOF photos when I slow down the shutter too much while alot of things are going on around me. With the 580EXII I'll use 0 to +2/3 FEC but on average in a house with 9foot ceilings +1/3 is plenty.

As I get 3 people shots or more I'll go f/5.6 to get enough dof. With the 5d I have to pay more attention when people are not sitting on the same plane. When people are staggered its so easy to get some out of focus.


I went through same thing this weekend. Lucky the false ceiling was quite low and I got nice bounce (atleast I think I did, will post some pictures later). Problem I ran into was when shooting kids I sat on the floor and I had to crank FEC to get right exposure. I thoughts eTTL would take care of it but guess not.

I was using camera (1dmk2) in manual mode, like ISO400, f5.6, 1/60 to 1/125 with flash in eTTL, FEC from +1 to +1 2/3. I was using business card as an index card with RRS wedding pro bracket. It was pain to change from lasdscape to portrait as I had to rotate my flash all the time (550ex). Didn't get any chance to try CTO gels. Maybe next time.

I am going to make Chuck Gardner's bounce card and see if it helps or not.

[EOS_JD]

It wouldn't :(

Yes it was answered just after I posted that. Just a misunderstanding.

[bobbyz]

Thanks AlanU.

[sixsixfour]

I typically do 1/15~1/40 @ F/5.6 ISO100 on Manual flash. the slower speeds and semi-open aperture lets me get in some ambient light, plus the "kiss" of flash stops action just enough that stationary subjects come out sharp.

of course if people are moving around that's a whole 'nother story :D

[Curtis N]

If you use a Joe demb flipit you'll find that you can change landscape to portrait in seconds. I feel no need to buy a bracket with the flipit.What's important to understand about any flash modifier is that it has the potential to create shadows behind your subject if it directs part of the light directly toward your subject. And normally, it's a good idea to direct some light forward to brighten eye sockets and create catchlights.

How noticeable will those shadows be? That depends on a number of factors. The percentage of light you're throwing forward, the distance to the background, and the ambient exposure, to name a few.

While the factors mentioned above can sometimes be managed, keeping the flash directly above the lens will hide the shadows it creates, assuming you're shooting the upper portions of upright humans.

A flash bracket is designed to keep the light where you want it, and it has the potential to improve image quality even when a bounce card or other modifier is used.

[USER876]

I recently attended 3 weddings and had a lot of practice using my new 430EX on my 40d. The first wedding, I shot everything in auto, and the pictures came out eh....

The second wedding, I read neils blog, and tried to better meter for ambient light along with the flash. I shot in manual used F3.5-5.6, ISO 800, and 1/30 - 1/60 with +1/3 FEC. Shots came out good, but they were not that sharp......even with the flash, 1/60 was not enough to freeze the action.

The third wedding, I shot also shot in manual but at 1/100 and the pictures came out the best. I had to go up to iso 1000-1600 in some cases to get some ambient light in teh shot. Unless the room is VERY bright, I would shoot at ISO 800-1600, F4+ (unless you are doing couples portraits then go with a wider apeture), at least 1/80 (prefer 1/100), and +1/3 - +2/3 FEC. Definiately bounce the flash either off the ceiling or a nearby wall or from behind you, and if most of your shots are going to be in close proximity, use a diffuser like an omni bounce.

Here are a few pictures I took recently with my 40d / E430EX with omnibounce setup.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SOQV55T_E2I/AAAAAAAAB08/_ubDlbeIB0k/s800/IMG_1370.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SVkOB8rgAgI/AAAAAAAACpY/2fh750M0nx0/s800/IMG_1678fff.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SLIeE0rMkjI/AAAAAAAAATc/590awBqEbdc/s512/IMG_0438.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SLIeQ6If4HI/AAAAAAAAAW8/Y-y6PGbgFzw/s720/IMG_0501.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SLIeUYrvZeI/AAAAAAAAAYE/9eVxG094DI0/s720/IMG_0516.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SPQVG_IGr-I/AAAAAAAACNo/PRKERXbH6NY/s720/IMG_1572.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pI858HPu_js/SM1b_sgv39I/AAAAAAAABRc/7KCVyLR1ups/s800/IMG_1164.JPG

[SYS]

I just re-read this article by Chuck Gardner, and you might be interested in reading this, too, if you frequently shoot candid weddings, parties, events, etc. This article touches on, among other things:

- Why use flash bracket along with his diffuser
- Parallel and non-parallel light behavior, which explains his diffuser design
- Evolution of his experimentation with various flash diffusers/modifiers
- Why his diffuser (which I also made using his template) yields better results than bouncing, hot-shoe flash softboxes, LumiQuest type bouncer, Sto-fen, Lumisphere type tupperware, index card with rubber band, etc. for such candid shootings

http://super.nova.org/DPR/Design/

I've been researching these types of diffusers and modifiers for a long while now, and I haven't found anything better than this -- yet.