Colour blur with the EOS 1Ds MkII

[Duccio]

Hi, I am an architectural photographer, I use to work with large format cameras and I am an absolute beginner in the digital camera world. This December after a one week, enchanting, experience with a 20D I decided to return it to my photographic supplier and preorder a EOS1Ds MkII. My inpatient waiting ended last Monday. Very happy I went home, just in time to discover a dark spot, right in the middle of the CMOS. Back to the shop they roughly cleaned the sensor (no more dark spot in the centre of the image, but now dust in the corners...) and returned me the camera that I could finally test this weekend. My first subject has been a modern white building and I felt very surprised when I noticed that in the edge of many horizontal lines –more clearly if there is a strong contrast between light and shadow– a coloured line appears, normally red, magenta or green. It looks like if there were a shift in the image and the colours blur. When printing the image (at least with an inkjet printer) it is not something very evident, but if you look carefully you can detect the problem as you saw it in the screen at 100% real pixels. I was wondering if this is something characteristic of digital capture but then I checked some pictures I took with the 20D of the same building and I couldn’t find anything similar. I only read fantastic comments about the Ds MkII and I can’t believe that what I am seeing is normal… but actually I must admit I have no idea of what is normal in the digital capture world. Can anybody help me to clear up this matter? Thanks in advance D.

[langer]

hi duccio, I am not very experienced in digital field myself but have noticed similar problem to what u described. On my 300D where my shot has high contrast area usually highlights on dark objects. I notice the colour fringing you mentined. This appear only on extreme contrast situ tho. I notice it more when I use lower quality settings on the camera.

[Jackal]

What lense are you using? I borrowed my friend's 300mm vivitar lense (It's perhaps the worst lense I have ever laid hands on) and this problem shows up. Take a look. Does it look like this? (100% crop)

P.S. This is seriously the worst lense ever. That picture is "in focus" according to the camera.

Maybe it's the lense?

[langer]

woooooh.... that is a pretty crap lens mate. But the image I got taken with EF 50mm 1.8 has the fringing effect I mentioned before see attach. dunno whether this image will load actually...

[CyberDyneSystems]

Duccio,.
Welcome to the forum.

What lens were you using and could you possibly post a reduced size example,. or better yet a 100% crop of the problem area?

My guess is that it is "CA" or Chromatic Aberation.. which is more likely to occur on the outer edges of a less "pricey" lens.. If using the smae lens on a 20D,. the 20D's sensor is significantly smaller than the 1Ds' sensor,. so the 20D is only using the center protion of the lens,. or the "sweet spot" .. so you don't get the "CA"

[HKFEVER]

a dark spot, right in the middle of the CMOS. Back to the shop they roughly cleaned the sensor (no more dark spot in the centre of the image, but now dust in the corners...)

The dust or spots on the sensor can be clean very easily by using Copperhills cleaning kit. But never then Canon that you have touch the sensor with anything.


My first subject has been a modern white building and I felt very surprised when I noticed that in the edge of many horizontal lines –more clearly if there is a strong contrast between light and shadow– a coloured line appears, normally red, magenta or green. It looks like if there were a shift in the image and the colours blur. When printing the image (at least with an inkjet printer) it is not something very evident, but if you look carefully you can detect the problem as you saw it in the screen at 100% real pixels. I was wondering if this is something characteristic of digital capture but then I checked some pictures I took with the 20D of the same building and I couldn’t find anything similar.

1. What lens you shot with?
2. Camera setting?
3. Please provide the detail setting for that picture?
4. Please provide 100% corp of that particular area.

Without the above info. I can't suggest anything.

[HKFEVER]

Also, 1DsMKII demand L lenses, just like "blad".

[davidwegs]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=458558#Also, 1DsMKII demand L lenses, just like "blad".

Not quite so my friend, I frequently use the28/2.8, 50/1.4 and the 85/1.8 with marked success.

This does sound like CA of some flavor though, and that could well be the lens. My 1Ds2 has no such evident fringing that I've noticed. I have'nt looked for it either though.

BTW, shooting architecture, the sensor sise of a 1Ds2 will be what gives you more to deal with IMO. If you have been using any thing lager than MF gear, you are going to be needing image align PRO. and a little patience in PS:confused:

Welcome to the boards.

[HKFEVER]

Not quite so my friend, I frequently use the28/2.8, 50/1.4 and the 85/1.8 with marked success.

Let me re-phase it, 1DsMKII will show lenses weakness, so it demand better lenses.

Am I correct.

[retro]

Let me re-phase it, 1DsMKII will show lenses weakness, so it demand better lenses.

Am I correct.


This is correct.

[Duccio]

Dear Friends, thanks for your warm welcome and help. For the moment I only have two lenses (brand new Canon's) and the problem is visible with both of them. Still with the TS E 24mm L (the canon shift/tilt lens) is more evident than with the EF 17-40mm L USM and increases getting closer to the borders and the shifting. I am a little busy right now but as soon as I can I will post an example. Thanks

[Duccio]

Sorry JacKal, the first time I had a look at the answers the browser did not show your picture. This is the reason why I didn't say anything, but yes you are right it is something very similar to what happened to you...

[Duccio]

Here you can see the problem. Please look at the magenta lines at the edge of the shadow of the white side and the green strips over each piec of the panels in the grey facade.

Modelo de cámara
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II
Hora y fecha de disparo
18/03/05 12:11:05
Modo de disparo
Prioridad de abertura AE
Tv (Velocidad de obturación)
1/125
Av (Valor de apertura)
18.0
Modo de medición
Medición promedia ponderada central
Compensación de la exposición
+1
Secuencia automática de exposición
+1/3
Velocidad ISO
100
Objetivo
24.0mm
Distancia focal
24.0mm
Tamaño de imagen
4992x3328
Calidad de la imagen
RAW
Flash
Desactivar
Modo Balance de blancos
Automático
Modo AF
Enfoque manual
Ajustes de parámetros
Curva de tono Estándar
Nitidez 0
Contraste 0
Matriz de color
1Estándar
Espacio de color sRGB
Saturación de color Estándar
Tono de color 0
Reducción de ruido
Desactivar
Tamaño de archivo
13965Kb
Función de personalización
C.Fn:00-1
C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-0
C.Fn:09-0
C.Fn:10-0
C.Fn:11-0
C.Fn:12-0
C.Fn:13-0
C.Fn:14-1
C.Fn:15-0
C.Fn:16-0
C.Fn:17-0
C.Fn:18-0
C.Fn:19-0
C.Fn:20-0
Modo de transporte de película
Disparo continuo
Nº de cuerpo de la cámara
0000313044

[karusel]

I think this is pretty bad case of CA... I remember reading about TS lenses and they say CA is more evident the more you shift the lens. At 100% the 1Ds MKII sensor has AFAIK better resolution than film, so lens flaws are more obvious.

[Fullator]

After looking at the photograph, I must admit this is terrifying! I own a 1Ds2 and I never experienced such artefacts, not even with the 28-135mm lens. I suggest you try to convince someone with the same camera to duplicate the shot in the same conditions and settings. If there is a marked difference, you have sufficient proof to trade in your camera for a new one.

[pierrot]

Oooh yes a lot of CA. Do you have any UV filter or such mounted?

[Duccio]

No Pierrot no filters!

[HKFEVER]

Wow, that's un-acceptable. Try other lens with similar setting.

I always try with 50mm f/1.4 in AV mode starting from 1.4 all the way to 22 with tripod.

If the problem remains than print it on 3A and show it to Canon tech ASAP.:evil:

Check with my thread http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58551&highlight=hkfever

End up spending couple hr with Canon tech to fright for the replacement.:evil:

[Duccio]

Here you have a new test with the 17-40mm L USM:
WS7W0236.CR2
Modelo de cámara
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II
Hora y fecha de disparo
20/03/05 10:13:03
Modo de disparo
Prioridad de abertura AE
Tv (Velocidad de obturación)
1/60
Av (Valor de apertura)
13.0
Modo de medición
Medición promedia ponderada central
Compensación de la exposición
0
Velocidad ISO
100
Objetivo
24.0mm
Distancia focal
24.0mm
Tamaño de imagen
4992x3328
Calidad de la imagen
RAW
Flash
Desactivar
Modo Balance de blancos
Automático
Modo AF
Enfoque manual
Ajustes de parámetros
Curva de tono Estándar
Nitidez 0
Contraste 0
Matriz de color
1Estándar
Espacio de color sRGB
Saturación de color Estándar
Tono de color 0
Reducción de ruido
Desactivar
Tamaño de archivo
17874Kb
Función de personalización
C.Fn:00-1
C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-0
C.Fn:09-0
C.Fn:10-0
C.Fn:11-0
C.Fn:12-0
C.Fn:13-0
C.Fn:14-1
C.Fn:15-0
C.Fn:16-0
C.Fn:17-0
C.Fn:18-0
C.Fn:19-0
C.Fn:20-0
Modo de transporte de película
Disparo de fotograma único
Nº de cuerpo de la cámara
0000313044

[HKFEVER]

What size is this corp?
- ?? pixel X ?? pixel Or
- ?? mm X ?? mm

How far away from your camera?

How is the weather?

Hand held or tripod?

What filter you use?

[Duccio]

The first crop: 700 X 584 pixels
As I said no filters at all
The point of view was approx 20 m away
Blue sky with sharp light
Taken with tripod


The second crop:
171 X 297 pixels
no filters
The point of view was approx 25 m away
Taken with tripod
blue sky with some thin clouds softening the light

[HKFEVER]

I will shot some with the similar setting and distance tomorrow and post it.

But for the 2nd shot, it is quite OK, consider that the 171 X 297 pixel only 5-6% of the 3328X 4992, roughly 5% of a A3 paper, less than 1in X 1.5in (in 200dpi), I am may be wrong.

How often do you check your scanned large format film that close in the monitor?

I did not mean to challange you, just to claim you down.

[karusel]

Duccio, have you tried larger apertures like f/8.0? Anyways I think you shoud follow Fullator's advice and take the same shots with another camera. Or you could go straight back to the store and demand to test another camera. All in all, you paid more than a lot of people pay for a car and you expect 100% flawless performance and you want to make sure you're getting it. People get pi$$ed of when things of 1/1000 of the value of 1Ds MKII are not functioning right, so you really don't need to be too humble.

[Duccio]

Karusel, there is the problem that in Spain is not yet easy to find Ds MkII. Today I went to the store and they have no cameras in stock (they just received 2 and sold the one that came with mine to a customer in Seville 1000km away from here). We have been making tests but it took long time and we could not analyze the results yet. Tomorrow I will update you...
By the way they also suggested to try at f8

[davidwegs]

HKFEVER, yes you are correct :). No offense.

Duccio, I will say its the lens and I have a lens that this happens on (in bright sunshine), it is the Sigma 20/1.8, but that may be a little more acceptable @ $400 ish.

If you are using a TS lens you probably need to get a software ap that will help to make the corrections in perspective. In fact, I think if you are not using a 6x6 or 6x9 (or better) it's a must. IMO.

Ts lenses are OK, when kept close to '0', but begin to degrade the image as you shift farther from a parallel plane, and exponentially so on the 35mm sensors. Kodak 14/c and the older 1Ds display these same traits with that lens. The 90 has a little less CA evident and the 45 is about on a par with the 24.

F8 will give better results, but you are about to see, it makes little difference if you are shifting much at all.

There are worthy work arounds for architecture but they only get you 2/3rds of the way there.

Have fun testing. Regards.