New EOS 1Ds Mark II

[Movick]

Hello,

I recently purchased the new EOS 1Ds Mark II. I had my first opportunity to do some shooting over this past weekend, and I must say that I'm a little disappointed with the resulting images.



First and most disturbing to me is the spotting which appears in the image attached below. This is a brand new camera, as are the lenses. I’ve made only a few lens changes thus far, and ALWAYS inside of my SUV or indoors (never outside in the wind). I find it very unlikely that dust would have accumulated so rapidly in a brand new camera having so little usage. As I've previously stated; all of my "L" lenses are brand new as well, and the weather on the days of shooting was clear and mildly cold (no rain or droplets). I'd like to get an idea as to whether the aforementioned spotting may be marks on the sensor, before I go to the trouble of contacting the vendor and requesting another body. I have read about said occurrence (marked sensor) on other forums, and I know it’s not unheard of in the least. An evaluation of the attached image would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.



Next, I have an issue with noise at let’s say “extended” exposures at medium ISO settings, i.e. 2-4 seconds @ f5.6, f8; ISO 200, 400. This problem is especially discernable in images shot at night, where the dark sky often appears quite grainy. Am I unrealistic in my expectations of the 1Ds Mark II to produce near noise-free images at these moderate ISO settings? I thoroughly enjoy night shooting, and although I know I can smooth out much of the noise with a program such as Noise Ninja; I honestly expected far more spectacular results from an $8000.00, 16.7 mega pixel pro SLR. I’ve got to tell you, I own several digital cameras of lesser pixel count, which have produced images containing similar noise patterns, only less of it. Is it possible I’ve just received a defective unit, or is noise at 1+ second exposures par for the course at night?



Third, and I’m hoping finally; I’m having a sharpness issue with my new 70-200 2.8L IS lens. Based upon the reviews and images I’ve seen of this lens; I again had the highest expectations from Canon. Thus far, I simply can’t get a tack sharp shot, hand-held or tripod, with or without IS enabled. I’ve read about some issues with back focus and auto focus associated with this lens; how do I determine the problem here? Is there a simple test perhaps? Also, using the focal length reciprocal rule, am I correct in understanding that the IS offers me 2-3 stops of extra latitude when shooting handheld at the respective focal length with IS active, i.e. max. 1/60-1/30 sec at 200mm? Is it possible that both my new camera body and this lens are both defective? Please help, I’ve got well over 10K invested in Canon equipment.



Thanks to all,



Movick

[Movick]

Just wanted to upload a recent night shot. I don't know whether the noise is visible at such a reduced size. Image shot JPEG highest quality, lens: EF 17-40 f4L @ approx 32mm, f8.0, 3.2 sec ISO 400.


Movick

[blackviolet]

quite a few people - myself included - have had dust on the sensor ot of the box. dust is a characteristic of digital slrs. if you are concerned - by all means contact your dealer and discuss it. even if you have a spotless sensor, it will get dust on it soon anyway. some people have had tiny oil droplets from the shutter, but that doesn't look like it in your image

as for the sharpness - can you post some examples? can you extract out a 100% crop of the section you were focussing on? there are tests you can do to gauge the accuracy of the focus (back focus, etc.). again, you can discuss with your dealer.

you will have to do some post processing on your images (again, a characteristic of a dslr), unless you dial up the sharpness in the camera - which i doubt anyone here would recommend that you do on a 1dsmk2...

i'll let someone who has this body comment on the noise. i have not noticed any noise problem on my 1dmk2 - in fact i think it's quite good.

where you using a dslr prior to your purchase of the 1dsmk2?

[Fullator]

I know it is not done, but did you read the manual? There is a feature called 'noise reduction' in the Menu tab (it may be called otherwise, as I use the Dutch menu). I experience remarkably low levels of noise at bulb settings, far less than any digital camera I know.
Furthermore, there always is a need for post-processing when working with DSLR. Sharpness is one point. Even more so is the right choice of color space.

Do you shoot in RAW format? Then postprocessing absolutely is the issue.

I tend to wholly agree with blackviolet. And most people are a bit disappointed after their purchase of an 1Ds2. As the camera grows on them, they become inseparable and the quality of the photographs increases manifold. Lots of succes with your camera. May your lens never be without an interesting object.

[Duccio]

Welcome on board Movick!
Please have a look at my thread "Colour blur with EOS 1Ds MkII"
Best

[pierrot]

I think you simply have too high expectations about digital SLRs in general. At such a price, that's absolutely normal and legitimate ;)
You'll now have to discover the limits of this technology and live with it. And learn the fine art of sensor cleaning.
The image you post is not that dirty, btw. Nothing to be afraid of even with a brand new body.

[HKFEVER]

Sharpness isuse:confused: , this happened when I was new to DSLR:
First time deal with pro DSLR, and I was not understand the sharpness issue in DSLR.
Check this thread for sharpness
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44465&highlight=hkfever

Dust Issue:evil: , this happened with my 3rd 1DsMKII:
Check this thread for dust
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58551&highlight=hkfever
End up spending couple hr with Canon tech to fright for the replacement.:evil:

Noise issue is nothing with 1DsMKII:lol: , this happened with 3rd & 4th 1DsMKII:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55303&highlight=noise
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56426&highlight=noise
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60266&highlight=noise

[ssim]

I can remember when I bought my 1DMKII and took the first few images, I said to myself "What have I done". They looked like crap. It took some playing around with the various settings until I got what I believed to be the optimal settings. Don't get disheartened so quickly.

I'll let the other owners of the 1Ds's comment on the noise issue. I can say that on the MKII the noise is very acceptable at pretty much all ISO levels, taking into context that there is going to be an increase of noise as you move up the ISO ladder.

I would suggest shooting RAW, I've always found less noise in this method than JPG. The images that come from the DSLR all require a certain amount of post processing including sharpening. The 70-200 is one of the sharpest lenses in my bag. Again, I found that it took a little getting used to and you have to find the 'sweet spot" on the lens. What f-stop were you shooting at.

Getting a camera with dust bunnies is certainly unforetuneate. If you have changed lenses a few times, it is possible to get these through this process no matter how careful you are. I had to clean my 1DMKII sensor within a few days of starting to use it. If you live close to a Canon service center. Take it in there. I know the first time I had to clean a sensor I took it to Canon and they did it in a few minutes.

I've read several reviews of this camera and many of these stated that this camera is very unforgiving. Given the resolution it will illustrate any of the flaws that the glass may have or the way the photographer has used it.

Good luck and congrats on owning probably the best DSLR available.

[MDJAK]

Movick, I recently purchased the 1dsmk2 and have been completely satisfied with it in every way. My first dslr was the nikon D100 and I thought the pictures were incredibly soft, exposure routinely off.

My following camera, the 10D, was better but still disappointing in certain areas such as lack of accurate autofocus. By this time, I learned how important post processing was.

After that, the 20D, which I felt to be a big improvement.

I just sold that and got the 1dsmk2. I love it. I always shoot raw. I've looked very carefully at blue skies, shot my white ceiling with my 24-70 F2.8 last evening and, thankfully, saw no spotting, no dust of any kind.

Perhaps you do have a defective sensor or a dirty one. Make Canon address it to your satisfaction.

Most importantly, look here to see how important post processing is:
www.petemyers.com (http://www.petemyers.com)

[Longwatcher]

Your camera appears to be way more dusty then mine out of the box.
I had three spots when I first got mine. One of the dust spots went away on its own, the other two are convienently in the corners that I usually crop out anyway and thus don't bother me. If the dust gets as bad as yours has it is time to clean the sensor.

Of my three DSLRs, only my D60 has some how mysteriously avoided dust. My 10D has had to be cleaned three times to date. and my 1DsMkII came with the three dust spots free of charge. Although the way I change lenses is less likely to attract dust, I don't go out of my way to stay in a clean environment while changing them.

One key to avoiding dust, is make sure you turn off the camera before changing lenses. I don't always do this, but it will help if in dusty environment.

As to noise;
Mine is virtually noiseless until ISO 1600.

And softness is normal until post processing is complete. Although DSLRs have been known to be miscalibrated versus the lenses. So if you can't get it sharp at all, then it may be time to send lens and camera together to Canon Repair for calibration.

Just my experience,

[Movick]

Hello all,



Wow what a great group of helpful people! It's refreshing to see so many informative responses to a query on a forum in such a short time...thanks to all!



At this point, I'm awaiting a return call from the Canon vendor. I'm hoping that they will simply change out the body, before I have to travel to the service center, drop off my brand new camera, leave it for 10-14 business days, and probably get it back still body temp warm and overhandled by other people's mitts, all fingerprinted up. :evil: I friggen hate that!



Regarding some of the suggestions and comments: I am well aware of the inherent issues with DSLRs and dust; I do however feel that such a large accumulation of dust on the sensor at this very early point is simply unacceptable.


As far as using the noise reduction; I shouldn’t have to rely on that function to obtain respectable results at moderate exposure and ISO settings. Sure, at 1600 or 3200, I’d probably give the feature a try – but at 200 and 400… no way. I’m telling you all; I own a couple of 4 mega-pixel pro-sumer models, both of which yield results similar to what I’ve experienced thus far with the 1Ds Mk II (noise-wise) at night.

Shooting RAW – sure it’s preferable in a sense, however not at all conducive to proficient workflow. The couple of test shots I’ve posted were taken on my free time; I can go home after a “hobby shoot” and play with the RAW software till my heart’s content. If I am shooting several hundred photos for a catalog however; RAW simply isn’t realistic. Imagine having the task of uploading, opening and processing hundreds upon hundreds of shots in RAW; not me man! From what I’ve researched; high quality JPEGS from this camera should yield impressive, professional results right out of the camera. RAW of course has its purpose, i.e.; I’d shoot RAW + L for color critical shots - especially outdoors where the color temperature may vary from shot to shot on a sun-in / sun-out kind of day.

I certainly realize that virtually all digital images require some degree of post processing - just as film requires darkroom processing. Heck, a lot of film shooters don’t realize that the photo labs they use make their skills appear more competent than they may actually be. I still contend that the images from a pro SLR of this level ($8000.00!) should perform on par with the best of film cameras – compromises being few. I personally am an “Manual”, zone system shooter. I rarely use programmed modes to determine my exposure, and I never ever use “auto” for anything. I feel quite strongly; if an image is properly exposed and composed; it should translate accurately to the camera without critical dependency upon post processing…period.


As I sit here awaiting the phone reply from the Canon vendor; I truly hope I didn’t blow 8 g’s on this baby in hopes of retiring my film cameras. More to come.





Movick

[Movick]

Just thought I'd upload a longer exposure of the night shot - the noise is a tad more evident here. For some reason, the image looks darker online than in my imaging program.


Movick

[KennyG]

Movick, you must come to terms with DSLR dust and not return a camera because of it. To start, get a good blower like the Rocket and you may find that shifts it without need for anything else. Follow the instructions in the manual. If the dust does not move, then you need to learn how to clean the sensor yourself.

Even at ISO 200 long nightime exposures will show noise, fact of life.

By the way, I can process 1,500 RAW images at one shoot faster than I could ever do JPG. Get the right tools and workflow and you can leave JPG behind for good.

[danphoto1]

I agree that the rocket will help I had some dust in my 1DMKII and this removed it. the only other way is to clean it. I don't understand the lack of sharpness

Dan

[drisley]

I honestly don't see much noise in these images at all.
Btw, to make it a fair comparison, resize your images down to 4 megapixels, then compare to your prosumer digicams.

[davidwegs]

What Drisley said.

On the blower thing, I have found it to create some static and that seems to mean the sensor needs MORE frequent swabbing. YMMV.

[davidwegs]

By the way, I can process 1,500 RAW images at one shoot faster than I could ever do JPG. Get the right tools and workflow and you can leave JPG behind for good.

Do share your workflow. I am getting better but still suck in terms of speed.

[Movick]

I did a sensor cleaning tonight with a Hurricane blower. I'll have to take a few shots of a white card later and see if it had any effect. I am certainly willing to accept and deal with the inherent issue(s) of DSLR sensor dust, however I still contend the quantity of it at this extremely early point in my camera's lifespan is troubling. Not to mention; I’ve yet to ascertain whether the spots are in fact dust. Hopefully you folks are correct and that's that. I hope an answer lies nearby. Man I soitenly hope so.

Moving on; I've read numerous reviews about a product called the "Sensor Brush” (http://www.visibledust.com/sensor_brush_details.html (http://www.visibledust.com/sensor_brush_details.html)). Purportedly it safely removes clinging dust from a sensor by attracting the offending particles with a positive charge. This charge is created by blowing the brush fibers with a forced stream of air in rapid succession - preferably using propelled "canned air" ideally containing tetrafluoroethane (this canned gas outputs little or no residue). This all seems simple enough, though I am a little, no…REAL nervous about stroking a brush across the glass low pass filter in front of the sensor. So far, the reviews have been very positive on this product. Has anyone used this system yet?



Movick

[davidwegs]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=459944#http://photography-on-the.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=459944#I did a sensor cleaning tonight with a Hurricane blower. I'll have to take a few shots of a white card later and see if it had any effect. I am certainly willing to accept and deal with the inherent issue(s) of DSLR sensor dust, however I still contend the quantity of it at this extremely early point in my camera's lifespan is troubling. Not to mention; I’ve yet to ascertain whether the spots are in fact dust. Hopefully you folks are correct and that's that. I hope an answer lies nearby. Man I soitenly hope so.

Moving on; I've read numerous reviews about a product called the "Sensor Brush” (http://www.visibledust.com/sensor_brush_details.html (http://www.visibledust.com/sensor_brush_details.html)). Purportedly it safely removes clinging dust from a sensor by attracting the offending particles with a positive charge. This charge is created by blowing the brush fibers with a forced stream of air in rapid succession - preferably using propelled "canned air" ideally containing tetrafluoroethane (this canned gas outputs little or no residue). This all seems simple enough, though I am a little, no…REAL nervous about stroking a brush across the glass low pass filter in front of the sensor. So far, the reviews have been very positive on this product. Has anyone used this system yet?



Movick

I hear it works if the dust spots are 'free' and not 'stuck'. Not tried it but I would be interested if yuo get one.

[drisley]

I've heard good things about the sensor brush. But, they do charge a lot of money for that little brush.
Luckily you don't necessarily have to use the visible dust brushes...
http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/a_Brush_Your_Sensor/a_Brush_Your_Sensor.html