10D holds up against 20D

[Mitch]

I have two 10D cams. Been shooting Weddings with them, if I am careful about the settings, images are steller. When the 20D came out, I started soul searching about, yet again, spending more money. I decided to buy one 20D and then sell one 10D to help pay for it. When I got the 20D and started shooting to check it out, I came to the conclusion that the images on the 10d were ever so slightly superior. I am sure of it. While I love the 20D, by comparison, the 10D cams are just as good if not better in the quality of the image. Bottom line, decided to keep all three cameras; I am very happy that I did. Can't see getting rid of something that works well, very well.

The 20D has many operational improvements over the 10D: FASTER playback of the LCD image and histogram, 5fps vs 3fps on continuous shooting, bigger buffer, takes advantage of faster CF cards, better flash metering with ETTL-2, 9 focus points vs 7, faster startup. The 20D does a slightly better job of handling the flash with its ETTL-2 and accordingly I get fewer poorly exposed flash images than I do with the 10D. However, I have discerned no advantage whatsoever with the 8MP over the 10D's 6MP. The pixels are more plentiful but smaller, thats all. Same size CMOS sensor. In fact, I beleive that the images on the 20D seem to be a tad bit grainier by a very small margin. Also, the image color in my opinion, isn't as well saturated as the 10D image color...not sure why, may have something to do with ETTL-2 or the 8MP image that I see in Photoshop(?). The most important quality of the 20D that, taken alone, is worth the new purchase is the faster playback of the image and histogram. Makes a huge difference in a wedding shoot by leaps and bounds.

In my experience, I get slightly more keepers with the 20D, but I get a few more fantastic images with the 10D. If a theif came into my house and were steal some of my cameras, I would prefer that he steal the 20D and leave me the two 10D cams instead of vice versa, bottom line. If I had it to do all over again, knowing what I know now, at current pricing, I would buy one 10D and one 20D instead of two 10D or two 20D cameras. What do you think of that?

[CyberDyneSystems]

The one thing I know that my 10D did better than either the 20D or MkII is expose "correctly" more often at a centered exposure setting. (I am talking ONLY about natural lighting,. not flash where I agree the opposite is true)

With the MkII especially, and the 20D as well I find that I have to use compensation for nearly everything.

Now .. I said that just because it was the one thing I knew I liked about the 10D more than the 20D... but while typing it I bagan to wonder about some of what you posted..
In fact, I beleive that the images on the 20D seem to be a tad bit grainier by a very small margin. Also, the image color in my opinion, isn't as well saturated as the 10D image color...

... both of these symptoms could very well be caused by slight underexposure.. We know that underexposed digital images have more noise/grain.. we also know that the 20D measures less noise than the 10D in tests. And likewise for best color an accurate exposure is required.

Any chance some plus EC.. a little to the right with the histogram could solve your 20D problems?

For me,. by the ime I had a 20D I'd allready been shooting a MkII side by Side with a 10D for about 8 months,. so i was allready used to having to dial in more EC on the MkII...

Thus doing so for the 20D came naturally.. (then I sold the 10D and now I have to do this with all my cameras)

Might give it a try. ;)

[jbradc]

I have been needing a second body for some time but have not purchased the 20D for the reasons you mentioned. The 20D seems to have a alot of problems (lock ups, poor battery grip design, etc...) I am holding off until I can get the 1D mkII (end of the month) I have never had any of these issues with my 10D.

[E.C.Giorgio]

Wow, interesting! I've had my 10d up for sale twice. Once in here & on Ebay. But both times i pulled the ads. After reading some of your comments, i think i'm staying with it! I would love to get the 1D mkII but it's way too expensive. Plus i have enough problems learning how to use the 10d.
manny

[tim]

After jumping from the 300D to the 20D, I have nothing but good things to say about the 20D. Partly i'm new to this game so i'm improving all the time, but the 20D gives more control and better results than the 300D for me.

[jbradc]

After jumping from the 300D to the 20D, I have nothing but good things to say about the 20D. Partly i'm new to this game so i'm improving all the time, but the 20D gives more control and better results than the 300D for me.
No doubt, the 20D is a better camera than the 300D (that's why is costs more), but it has had some quality issues compared to the 10D and the 300D. I mean just search this forum (or any others) and you will see post after post about random lock ups and issues with the optional battery grip. I have used the 20D with good results but I need to know the camera is reliable and the 10D has been rock solid for me.

[WestFalcon]

I shot some show choir pictures tonite at a middle school and used a 10D and a 20D. The 20D had a 17-40 L lens and the 10D had a Tamron 20-40 lens(very expensive older tamron lens). I shot both at f8 and 125th second at asa 100. I examined the images before cropping them and sharpened both the same amount (jpegs). I was amazed that the 10D image actually looked better than the 20D.. they were close in quality but I expected the 20D image to be significantly better and it was not. The 20D is so much faster to operate and better focus accuracy but I think people should think twice about dumping their 10Ds because I really don't think you will get an improved image with the 20D, just a faster operating camera. Yup....10D's are a good buy right now since a lot of people are dumping them. So I agree with Mitch about the 10D.

[poke]

I just sold my 10D this morning... and the 20D is in the mail. I was very happy with the 10D, but I needed better results at high ISO. From everything I've seen on POTN, the 20D delivers well in this area. I just hope that its not a big tradeoff in other areas.

[johneric8]

interesting, I have done the same test and in my testing the 20D images were much better.. Opinions are like (a_S holes) we all got em.... My buddy has a 10D and we shot the same girl for a shoot last week. We had the cameras set the same and in some instances settings the same.. The 20D just flat out performed it in every aspect.

[poke]

interesting, I have done the same test and in my testing the 20D images were much better.. Opinions are like (a_S holes) we all got em.... My buddy has a 10D and we shot the same girl for a shoot last week. We had the cameras set the same and in some instances settings the same.. The 20D just flat out performed it in every aspect.


Now thats what I like to hear...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[fatrat]

Are you guys saying the 20D under exposes?? and you need to add + exposer comp.!?

I have found that the 20D over exposes if anything for me, although i am in sunny Australia, it seem in auto or P it dont matter how bright it is the auto shutter setting never want to go above 1/250

[Toogy]

I also upgraded from a 10D and have not regretted it one bit. The 10D was so slow in comparison, and the focus accurancy left alot to be desired. I would come home from an event and have a very small percentage of images that were really sharp in focus. With the 20D there are very few images that AREN'T sharp. It is a BIG difference to me.

[Reminisce]

There havent been any serious lockup issues since like firmware 1.04 I believe (we're now on v1.1). The batterygrip being issued now is seemingly flawless from all of the latest reports from people who have bought one in the last couple months (Check the 20D batterygrip thread below this one). Just an FYI :)

[mr.photoguy]

I have a 20D, and with that aside, I have never owned a 10D, or a MkII, but a EOS ellan Film body.
In my opinion the 20D is a very good camera. The features it offers are very good, and when used with a L lens, or any lens constructed with top image quality in mind offers very outstanding issues.
Know onto some other things that I have noticed.
The 20D has taught me to be a better photographer, by this I mean it practically shows me my mistakes. I never knew how to read a histogram, so I read a few articles, did some practice shooting, and learned to read the histogram when shooting with my 20D. I would always find myself opening up images like .5 to 1 stop more, in CS before, but now I read the histogram, and shoot with the extra exposure, and it's less work for me with my images.

My point: I found out a lot of the crappy images I got with my 20D were my fault. Not the camera's fault. Either I used a crappy lens, or I didn't set up the flash right, or whatever.. but I learned to use better judgement the more I shoot.
Dave Baker is the one that told me one day.. " Shoot more, and then when you think you have taken enough photo's, Shoot more again"

As for the 20D faults, I haven't found much if any. I had 1 lock up once.. Err 99 .. and Ijust pulled the battery out, and it reset.
The battery grip ordeal has been fixed, (with added spacer) .. So the new grips work great.
Other than those minor gripes, I have seen no other complaints about this camera.

Just get one, clean the sensor, and start shooting.

[Toogy]

The batterygrip being issued now is seemingly flawless from all of the latest reports from people who have bought one in the last couple months (Check the 20D batterygrip thread below this one). Just an FYI :)

Have you read the last few pages of that thread?? I am among several people that have just got the supposably 'fixed' grip and it is just as bad as the previous one I had. I have sent mine back to Canon.
So yes the 20D is better than the 10D, but the 10D grip is SUPERIOR to the 20D grip.

[Cadwell]

Mitch: Thanks for an interesting perspective from someone who owns both cameras and is actually in a position to objectively compare them. Unusual on this forum. ;)

[OviV]

Mitch,

Although I do not dispute your findings since I do not own a 10D, I wonder if the fact that you still shoot both cameras and have had your 10Ds much longer has anything to do with your results. I know that when I upgraded to the 20D I had learn some of its quirks in order to get better pictures from it.

Just an observation,
Ovi

[jbradc]

I think the issue is not with image quality from the 20D, but rather the build quality (hardware & software) to some extent. Images from a 20D should look better than those from a 10D due to the DIGIC II processor and the 20D is much faster to handle for sure. My issue is one of reliability not image quality. Who cares how good the image is if the software locks up or the grip causes the camera to freeze and you miss the shot.

[Tom Barnett]

I owned a 10D and loved the camera. But not as much as I love my 20D :) The 20D is a very reliable camera and I have not had any problems at all with image quality. The camera always performs beautifully for me, even when I don't.

[pcasciola]

Interesting thread, but I never thought the 20D was claiming to have higher quality images than the 10D, other than at high ISO which is clearly superior on the 20D. Where the 10D does not hold up against hte 20D is speed, which a lot of people don't need. I mostly like to shoot sports, and I find myself taking many long bursts of shots at 5fps, where the 10D just can't keep up. I also crop my shots quite a bit, so having the 8MP is nice because I still end up with around 4-5MP on some of the heavily cropped shots.

Speed and high ISO aside though, I think the 10D/20D/300D/350D are all comparable in terms of pure picture quality.

As far as reliability, I find the 20D to be extremely reliable. I've only had about 3-4 lockups in 4,000 shots, and no problems with the grip, and the total time lost from those lockups is about 15-20 seconds in total over a six month period.

[mr.photoguy]

I think the issue is not with image quality from the 20D, but rather the build quality (hardware & software) to some extent. Images from a 20D should look better than those from a 10D due to the DIGIC II processor and the 20D is much faster to handle for sure. My issue is one of reliability not image quality. Who cares how good the image is if the software locks up or the grip causes the camera to freeze and you miss the shot.
With the new firmware release that is out, the lockups should be minimal. There is also a new revised grip out also..
Every camera will have it's quirks, wheather Canon, Nikon, or Minolta.

[malla1962]

I have had my 20d since it was released with no lock ups or battery grip problems. I find the exposure to be far superior to my previous 300d. If anyone is having under exposure problems, and knows how to use the camera, they will know that this camera has exposure compensation in its settings.

[drisley]

There havent been any serious lockup issues since like firmware 1.04 I believe (we're now on v1.1). The batterygrip being issued now is seemingly flawless from all of the latest reports from people who have bought one in the last couple months (Check the 20D batterygrip thread below this one). Just an FYI :)
I had one of the very first 20D's from september. It has been 100% flawless. Not a single glitch, lockup or issue, with any of the firmware. In addition, the images I get now are slightly superiour to the ones I got with my 300D, mainly due to dynamic range and low noise. I think the colour accuracy of the 20D might be SLIGHTLY better too, but the 300D is awesome in this respect.

The battery grip is another story. It's far from flawless. Even the newest ones have the same battery disconnect issue. I just bought a brand new one last week, with a late serial number, and it's going back to Canon today to fix that issue.
Also, if you check this thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49908&highlight=bg-e2) you will see many others with the new model grips still have "grip disconnecting from camera" issues. It appears to be a quality control problem.
The store I bought my grip from sent back all the old grips, and only sells these new ones with serial numbers near and above #70000, and yet they said they are still getting lots returned because of the grip disconnect issue.
The good news is that Canon (in Canada atleast) admits there is a problem, and if you send in your grip, they will fix it. Just sucks that they didn't completely fix the problem in the factory.

[SDK^]

I had one of the very first 20D's from september. It has been 100% flawless. Not a single glitch, lockup or issue, with any of the firmware.

Yup, same here.
Even my battery grip has been 100% flawless.

I 'upgraded' from a 10D and have been very happy with the 20D

[grenadier]

My 20D arrived with an ill-fitting body join where the base meets the camera back. The joint tapered from tight to a 1/32" gap, through which the earthing strap could be seen.

Rather than return the 20D to the vendor, as was advised by Canon UK, I elected to have the Camera Inspected by an Authorised Canon Service Center. I reasoned that, to return the camera, I would be without a camera for some weeks. If I exchanged the camera, perhaps the new example may have the same fault, or even worse.
In any event, the meticulous Japanese assembly line methods, failed to pick up this ill-fitting body part problem. As it appears that this is a very common 20D problem, it could be that the body parts separate during transit!

The Canon Service Center Technician said that this ill-fitting join issue is a very common 20D problem, one that I could fix myself and gave detailed instructions. However, he also pointed out that sometimes this 'gap' problem is associated with a focus defect that manifests itself when using lens of aperture f/2.8 and larger.
I booked in to have the camera Inspected and adjusted with some alacrity!
The work took some 6 1/2 hours to complete. The Shutter was checked, the Focus Calibrated and the body adjusted. It's nice to know my 20D is in tip top shape!

I am convinced that my course of action, in having my camera Inspected, was the correct one.
I now have the assurance that my 20D conforms to Canon's 20D specification.

Some user reviews, have adverse comments about certain lenses, could these adverse criticisms, be due to their Camera's focus needing calibration?

[lmelendez]

It's a matter of personal opinion to me. I used a 10D, the 300D and at the end decided for the 20D because it was the camera giving ME the best results. Both 10D and 300D are great, but in my experience (of course, I'm not a professional), the 20D is far better.

Leo.

[Joe R]

The 20D is much better at ISO 800 and 1600, although the shadow noise of the 20D is more linear compared to the 10D. The 10D's shadow noise is more film like.

The 10D's shutter is quite a bit quieter than the 20D. It's a "snick" versus a "ker-klunk." For some shooting situations I still grab the 10D due to this noticeable advantage.

The speed and image review improvements of the 20D are significant, and the focus point selection is great. I have had no problems with either camera.