Cheap portable generators ( not for California)

[Papa Carlo]

If you live outside of California you can get a very cheap portable power for your monolights, which are several times more powerful than AB Vagabond.
http://www.amazon.com/Eastern-Tools-Equipment-TG1200-Generator/dp/B000P9UOAC/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

[FlyingPhotog]

Does it create clean, conditioned power?

Otherwise, not so good for monolights.

[Papa Carlo]

Does it create clean, conditioned power?

Otherwise, not so good for monolights.
It is in the description of the unit.

[Lotto]

Like OBama says: "I am outraged!" :)

[bobbyz]

I rather take 21lb vagabond over 41lb generator. Vagabond is $300 not that expensive for it does very nicely.

[eduardofrances]

You need pure sine wave to run a monolight so careful there also you aren't taking into account other factors like maintenance, weight, cost of gas and oil, etc.

The Innovatronix Explorer XT and the Vagabond II require less maintenance and certainly are a bang for the buck.

[Papa Carlo]

You need pure sine wave to run a monolight so careful there also you aren't taking into account other factors like maintenance, weight, cost of gas and oil, etc.

The Innovatronix Explorer XT and the Vagabond II require less maintenance and certainly are a bang for the buck.
It is not the same, with battery inverters you are limited to the battery capasity. With gasoline generators you can shoot all day. In other words apples and oranges.

[Tareq]

I have 5 lights, 2 1000ws and 3 500ws, so which generator i should choose if i want to use about 1500ws? or 2000ws?

[DSMITH131]

You might want to make sure you buy plenty of fuses and take a back up lighting system. These generator are rated at peak so the surge will vary from around 600 - 1200 watts. Might power one light but watch out for that surge it could be a killer(for your strobe that is)

[GenuineRolla]

I bet you that thing is loud though. I'd hate to shoot with that thing buzzing in the background.

[JamesXP]

Shoot it with your camera or a gun, ehehehehe.

[Bill Roberts]

Why not for California?

It's a genuine question, I'm from the UK and just don't understand why not.

[TopGear1Ds]

Why not for California?

It's a genuine question, I'm from the UK and just don't understand why not.
California has strict emissions standards, and this generator doesn't meet them.

[ibdb]

Why not for California?

It's a genuine question, I'm from the UK and just don't understand why not.
California has more stringent emissions requirements than any other state to combat some very significant air pollution issues. Combustion engines must meet a stricter standard there than elsewhere, so many products are 49 state certified. Other products are designed with additional controls to meet the California standards, but aren't sold elsewhere because of the additional costs that creates.

[ean36]

Honda makes clean power, quiet running generators, but they're not cheap. I've used mine on location, but much prefer to use the Vagabond II since I purchased it.

[eigga]

I would think the Honda's are the best for what you want

Honda Inverter Technology
Honda's inverter technology means stable, clean power in a smaller, lighter package. By taking the raw power produced by the generator and passing it through a special microprocessor, Honda generators are able to produce a sine wave equal to or better than your household power. This means you can even operate the most sensitive electronics without fear of interruption.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IAN

[Bill Roberts]

Thanks for the clarification guys

cheers

[Papa Carlo]

I would think the Honda's are the best for what you want

Honda Inverter Technology
Honda's inverter technology means stable, clean power in a smaller, lighter package. By taking the raw power produced by the generator and passing it through a special microprocessor, Honda generators are able to produce a sine wave equal to or better than your household power. This means you can even operate the most sensitive electronics without fear of interruption.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IAN
Sure, for the 1000% higher price :-(

[snails]

Why not for California?

It's a genuine question, I'm from the UK and just don't understand why not.

The page says the generator is non-CARB compliant. CARB is California's Air Review Board - they dictate emissions requirements for combustion engines sold and operated in California.

I'm convinced they are more politically and financially motivated than environmentally. (CARB certification is very expensive and very arbitrarily restrictive.)

[Tareq]

Sure, for the 1000% higher price :-(


Yeah, so if i want to buy Hensel generator then i think this Honda is cheaper ;)

[Papa Carlo]

The page says the generator is non-CARB compliant. CARB is California's Air Review Board - they dictate emissions requirements for combustion engines sold and operated in California.

I'm convinced they are more politically and financially motivated than environmentally. (CARB certification is very expensive and very arbitrarily restrictive.)
Totally agree. The generator runs 7.5 hours on a single gallon of gasoline so its impact on enviroment is minimal compared even to a cleanest car.

[eigga]

Sure, for the 1000% higher price

Ya well you pay for quality....and they are QUIET! Anyways the Vagabond is a great option. I have 3 of them and the generator. What is your intended use? outside I hope!

[Papa Carlo]

Ya well you pay for quality....and they are QUIET! Anyways the Vagabond is a great option. I have 3 of them and the generator. What is your intended use? outside I hope!
For the quality of what ? This not a lens or camera. As long as it is provides required power for the duration of the photo-shoot it is as good as 10 times more expensive Honda.
The question about outside: Why would I need a portable power inside ?
As for Vagabond I must repeat myself, let's not compare apples to oranges.
There is a lot of applications where Vagabond works very well but there is also a lot of situations where it is a poor choice: it has very limited capacity and power and long recycle times. You also should be able to use gas generators with digital strobes where Vagabond fails.

[Rudi]

Totally agree. The generator runs 7.5 hours on a single gallon of gasoline so its impact on enviroment is minimal compared even to a cleanest car.

:lol:

7.5 hours at 1200W. Let's give them the benefit of doubt, although I doubt that it really produces 1200W continuously. Not only that, but I doubt that you would get the full 7.5 hours under full load! 1200W is only 1.6 horsepower. (Reading the specs, this thing has a 2 horsepower motor to get the 1200W). So any comparison to cars is a joke - any car will be much more fuel efficient than this generator!

[Papa Carlo]

:lol:

7.5 hours at 1200W. Let's give them the benefit of doubt, although I doubt that it really produces 1200W continuously. Not only that, but I doubt that you would get the full 7.5 hours under full load! 1200W is only 1.6 horsepower. (Reading the specs, this thing has a 2 horsepower motor to get the 1200W). So any comparison to cars is a joke - any car will be much more fuel efficient than this generator!
One has to be a really trigger happy shooter to mange load the generator continuosly at full load :-). Secondly why are you comparing efficiency of the generator to a car motor efficiency ? Of course it will be lower. We were talking about pollution. A car can burn as much as 16 gallon of gasoline in 7 hours, the generator only 1.

[Rudi]

Other than walking, or riding a bicycle, there isn't much alternative to driving a car if you want to get from point A to point B. There are MUCH cleaner alternatives for powering your strobes, that was my point! So while you're saving money, you are harming the environment, and potentially your strobes (if the power is not pure sine wave).

[Calicajun]

That generator looks like the 2 cycle generator that Pep Boys is selling here in California for $129.00.

[Cmizzle]

Vagabond > *

[eigga]

For the quality of what ? This not a lens or camera. As long as it is provides required power for the duration of the photo-shoot it is as good as 10 times more expensive Honda.

I just always prefer quality and duplicate options. If you get the cheaper ones then at least get a backup. I have had my Honda's for several years. They are quiet, efficient and they work. Same reason I use pocket wizards over cheaper alternatives. My dad has gone through 3 cheaper generators during the same time period. I was just stating my opinion... They may not be 10 times better but there IS a reason they cost more. The power generators create is not all equal. Also, have you ever heard the noise the cheaper ones make? Not fun for a photo shoot

And I always use my power packs indoors too... nothing worse than blowing out a fuse...which my friend has done at an older buliding. Plus a power at each light means less cords lying around

With what seems like never ending competiton in the photography world there is something to be said for perceived value. I take that very serious

[Papa Carlo]

Other than walking, or riding a bicycle, there isn't much alternative to driving a car if you want to get from point A to point B. There are MUCH cleaner alternatives for powering your strobes, that was my point! So while you're saving money, you are harming the environment, and potentially your strobes (if the power is not pure sine wave).
Hmm... Interesting turn. Don't buy a gas generator because you are harming the environmnet. I wish I were that environment conscious. But did you know that you are harming the environment by just using strobes ? And what is that MUCH cleaner alternative ?

[GenuineRolla]

Let's not get into the environment discussion.

[cctsm]

A bit off-topic; Who is it that's actually saying that monolights require a pure sinewave? I don't have one, and I don't really recall seeing a detailed disassembly, but I would seriously imagine that it has a fairly standardized, albeit unusual in being step-up instead of step-down, switching powersupply - just like your PC.

And if it does, it doesn't care very much at all about the input waveform.

Anyone able to shed some light on the issue?

(Edit: Actually, some googling suggests - no firm results, though - that it's the usual crude old collection of diodes and capacitors that we all know and love, if it's even bumped up above grid Vp-p at all. Sigh, and I thought we had gotten futher... Still, nothing that really suggests that a bad waveform is instant death either.)

[Rudi]

Hmm... Interesting turn. Don't buy a gas generator because you are harming the environmnet. I wish I were that environment conscious. But did you know that you are harming the environment by just using strobes ? And what is that MUCH cleaner alternative ?

Vagabond, Tronix Explorer, etc. MUCH cleaner than using a cheap generator! You're using up grid capacity, not creating extra emissions. If you HAVE to use generators, use the more efficient Hondas or similar, which will burn much cleaner AND NOT HARM YOUR STROBES! (I thought I'd type that in caps since you keep avoiding the fact that a cheap generator will eventually break your strobes).

[Microcosm]

Hmm... Interesting turn. Don't buy a gas generator because you are harming the environmnet. I wish I were that environment conscious. But did you know that you are harming the environment by just using strobes ? And what is that MUCH cleaner alternative ?
If you want to go that route, then most everything you do is, in some way, harming the environment. It seems here the point is not to completely give up the use of strobes, or generators, or cameras, but instead to use them in the most efficient way possible.

[Papa Carlo]

Vagabond, Tronix Explorer, etc. MUCH cleaner than using a cheap generator! You're using up grid capacity, not creating extra emissions. If you HAVE to use generators, use the more efficient Hondas or similar, which will burn much cleaner AND NOT HARM YOUR STROBES! (I thought I'd type that in caps since you keep avoiding the fact that a cheap generator will eventually break your strobes).
As discussed here many times both options are not compatible with digital lights, so despited they are much cleaner they are useless. Not sure if 'etc' hides any viable option.

[Rudi]

As discussed here many times both options are not compatible with digital lights, so despited they are much cleaner they are useless. Not sure if 'etc' hides any viable option.

etc:

Both the Vagabond and Tronix packs will work perfectly well with one digital light plugged in. And the Honda generator will also work with digital lights, unless you use one that is not powerful enough (it's the voltage dip that digital lights do not like). Or you can always buy a pack and head system, which is a much neater solution if you do a lot of location shooting without access to mains power.

[Papa Carlo]

etc:

Both the Vagabond and Tronix packs will work perfectly well with one digital light plugged in.

One light ? You are not serious are you ?

And the Honda generator will also work with digital lights, unless you use one that is not powerful enough (it's the voltage dip that digital lights do not like). Or you can always buy a pack and head system, which is a much neater solution if you do a lot of location shooting without access to mains power.
I am a bit confused now :confused: A couple posts ago you were fighting that gas generators are evil. Now you are recommending them. I guess you do not know which gas generator is more efficient.

[Papa Carlo]

A bit off-topic; Who is it that's actually saying that monolights require a pure sinewave? I don't have one, and I don't really recall seeing a detailed disassembly, but I would seriously imagine that it has a fairly standardized, albeit unusual in being step-up instead of step-down, switching powersupply - just like your PC.

And if it does, it doesn't care very much at all about the input waveform.

Anyone able to shed some light on the issue?

(Edit: Actually, some googling suggests - no firm results, though - that it's the usual crude old collection of diodes and capacitors that we all know and love, if it's even bumped up above grid Vp-p at all. Sigh, and I thought we had gotten futher... Still, nothing that really suggests that a bad waveform is instant death either.)
I put some explanaiton here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7185100#post7185100

[Rudi]

One light ? You are not serious are you ?


I'm serious.


I am a bit confused now :confused: A couple posts ago you were fighting that gas generators are evil. Now you are recommending them. I guess you do not know which gas generator is more efficient.

I do, actually! Read the specs for the corresponding Honda generator, and you will, too.

[Papa Carlo]

I'm serious.



I do, actually! Read the specs for the corresponding Honda generator, and you will, too.
There is no specifications on the cheap generator. And there is no corresponding Honda generator, sorry.
What you see probably is Honda's increased efficiency when idle due to automatically lowered RPM. That actually is extremely poor choice for strobes as they consume power very unregularly. So during recycle time the RPMs are low and cannot increase instantly. As the result the voltage during recycling is also low for a very short period of time. That time however might be enough to reset the digital strobe.
I actually see no point in continuing this discussion. The OP says: here is the cheap alternative for portable power. But as seen from other threads there are nay sayers who denies everything that is not coming from them or they do not own. Bye.

[Rudi]

The OP says: here is the cheap alternative for portable power. But as seen from other threads there are nay sayers who denies everything that is not coming from them or they do not own. Bye.

It's got nothing to do with what I own! I actually own a cheap generator, but I do not power my strobes with it. It was purchased for other purposes. If you want to try it, go right ahead, but many people here told you very good reasons why you shouldn't. If you want to ignore those good reasons, so be it. Maybe you can report back with your personal experiences...

[cctsm]

I put some explanaiton here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7185100#post7185100


Thanks; I'm perfectly aware of the characteristics of the waveform types (also, these days I doubt one would ever be able to find anything worse than a stepped square wave inverter (also called modified sine... ahh, glass half full), but that's more in reply to others in this thread).

However, has *anyone* here heard of people killing a strobe of any sort due to the waveform (and not spikes)? Yes, you are reducing the lifetime of the device, but this really does depend on your usage patterns as well.

Capacitors, inductors and transformers do dissipate more heat when a non-optimal waveform is applied, but unless you're beating them with 1pps for minutes on end, it's not actually not outside the specs - caps are rated for a specific ripple under specific temperature regions. Also, guess just what happens when you actually fire your strobe?

...

It literally shorts out the capacitors powering it. Bang, flash, empty capacitors.
That actually causes more wear than any modified sine inverter ever would, assuming the flash's charge circuitry wasn't designed by a moron.

Also, on the matter of ripple, I suggest you look no further than the speedlite you probably own, which charges it's capacitor with a completely nasty waveform at 5-40 kHz.


I, for one, wouldn't hesitate to attach anything that I knew was designed properly to a cheapo generator, as long as said cheapo generator didn't generate spikes of doom. Yes, I may lose a year of life on the capacitors - out of the 30+ years they're supposed to last in common applications.