Freelance Work

[RuffTAMU]

I am speaking to an editor about doing some freelance work for a small newspaper. I have shot in college, and have some decent experiencec, but I am far from a pro. What do you think I should charge for the feature/sports/news type shots?

Thanks in advance.

[cactusclay]

If you have a choice, charge as much as you can get, but most papers have set rates for freelancers, unless you get a pulitzer caliber shot or something that is national news that you could sell to one of the big guys.

[Vegas Poboy]

Here is a link which I found pretty good to go by http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm
I spoke with a full time pro & he uses fotoqute & it came up to the same price range and modify it from there.

[NGrinerPhoto]

i used to charge $125 plus mileage when i first started in freelance photojournalism. that was about 5 years ago. i'm a staffer now and we still pay about the same. -nick

[Vegas Poboy]

i used to charge $125 plus mileage when i first started in freelance photojournalism. that was about 5 years ago. i'm a staffer now and we still pay about the same. -nick
Is that per image & single use? and what size? 1/4, 1/2, or full page?

[NGrinerPhoto]

Is that per image & single use? and what size? 1/4, 1/2, or full page?

1/4 page - per image - they obtain the rights and can run it as much as they want

[Vegas Poboy]

1/4 page - per image - they obtain the rights and can run it as much as they want

Thanks for the info, I wanted to know if I was in the ballpark on my pricing.

[RuffTAMU]

Thanks All - That site will be very helpful when I go to talk to the editor.


Thanks Again!

[DaveG]

I am speaking to an editor about doing some freelance work for a small newspaper. I have shot in college, and have some decent experiencec, but I am far from a pro. What do you think I should charge for the feature/sports/news type shots?

Thanks in advance.

Just be careful not to price yourself out of the game. As you say you are just getting into this. Don't give it away, and that's what they'll try to do with you; but keep in mind that you're getting a chance to learn more with someone else's money.

Financially be careful. I don't know how long this "small newspaper" has been around. Around here they tend to go in and out of business frequently with a bunch of debts left behind. If the paper is less than five years old don't let them get more than three assignments behind in their payments. If it's less than a year old I shorten that to two assignments before I was paid (or $500), or have a specific day when they would assure me that I'd get my money, as in "You will be paid on the 10th."

When you deliver the images have an invoice ready to give them too. If you are doing the "darkroom" work on your computer and then emailing them jpegs, email them an invoice as a WORD document at the same time, and follow up with a phone call to make sure they got it.

My invoice style is to send the client a letter clearly marked INVOICE so I don't get "Is this your invoice?" phone calls; and I make sure that there's lots of detail. "For your records this is for photographic services where I photographed the Queen Elizabeth High School Football game at the Smith Stadium on March 12th ..." Then I line itemize each charge like shooting, milage, CD, tax and so forth. Since I've been doing this, and excepting some dumbass adding errors of my own doing, I've never had an invoice questioned by a client's accounting department.

For most clients you'll have to wait 30 days before you get paid, and that ticker won't start until they get the invoice. And some clients are just looking for a tiny mistake to slow down or halt that process.

I've been in business for over 12 years now and I've had exactly one bad debt and it was with a small sports newspaper. The good thing was that they paid me about $600 and then I did another $600 worth of assignments which I got stuck for. But my profit on the first $600 was about $500 so I did OK.

Don't make any big committments - buying a car for example, or quitting your job - until you see that this gig is stable. If they - or another client - want you to spend a lot of money up front in gear rental or whatever, ask them for an expense cheque before you arrange anything. Look them in the eye and if they are hesitating then I'd walk away. From my perspective I want to be able to lose every cent from any one assignment and NOT lose my shirt!

I did a shot a couple of years ago for an agency that wanted digital imaging shot as well as film. I quoted them a price for digital and they agreed. I then pointed out that even if the assignment was cancelled they had to pay me for this fee, and they agreed to that too. I had worked with them for the previous three years so I trusted them - barely; or I would have gotten that digital fee up front.

At the time I had no digital equipment and fully expected to rent it. Then I realized that this would pay about a third of the cost towards a 10D and a lens. If they did stiff me over the payment I would have bought a digital camera at a fair market price. If I rented it and I got screwed I would have been out $1200! As it was I did that shot in March and got paid in August.

The bottom line is to be careful.

[the7ferret]

You can also if you want to get paid faster have terms on your invoce.
such as 2/10 n/30

it stands for 2% discount if paid within 10 days on invoce otherwise full payment required within 30 days. Its typical accounting stuff so they should understand it. Might get your $ faster.

[robertwgross]

You can also if you want to get paid faster have terms on your invoce.
such as 2/10 n/30

it stands for 2% discount if paid within 10 days on invoce otherwise full payment required within 30 days. Its typical accounting stuff so they should understand it. Might get your $ faster.

That is a good point. However, I ran into one client that paid the bill after 45 days, and yet took the 2% discount anyway. They paid it with a check that had been back-dated in order for the date to look good. That, in my opinion, is just plain crooked. Of course, they figure that you are not going to try to haul them into court over a mere 2%.

---Bob Gross---

[DaveG]

That is a good point. However, I ran into one client that paid the bill after 45 days, and yet took the 2% discount anyway. They paid it with a check that had been back-dated in order for the date to look good. That, in my opinion, is just plain crooked. Of course, they figure that you are not going to try to haul them into court over a mere 2%.

---Bob Gross---

I find that any surcharge gets ignored, so there's no point. Most companies not only pay on time, they pay early. Four or five times a year I have to make a phone call to see where my money is and I always want that call to be very low key, so that I get hired again. Sometimes it's a lost invoice. Sometimes my invoice went in on the 16th and their invoice period ended on the 15th, so my 30 days goes to 45. These things happen. You have to stay on top of them but unless there's something truly rotten going on you can lose a good client by being abrupt.

I know a woman who did a shoot for a client and she was supposed to be at the shoot at 12:00. It was something like the end of a bike race or something like that. The finish was delayed and she didn't start to shoot until 1:00. Now did they owe her the money for this extra time? Yeah they did. But knowing her she didn't just say, "Yikes, I've got to charge you that extra hour. Sorry." She would have said, "If you were more orgainized you wouldn't owe me for that extra hour. But by god you'll be paying it!"

I have no idea as to whether she got that extra hours payment. I think that she even went to small claims court over it. I do know that she never got another job with them. I've also heard stories about her from other clients so I think that this was the way she operated. Bad word of mouth is a killer.

I had one agency that would pay me exactly six months after the assignment. 180 days. Oi! I told my contact there, who was ashamed of her company's practice, that I still wanted to work for them but that it wouldn't be at my regular price. I upped it 100% and all was well. I did about a half dozen fairly large assignments for them and was paid right on time, 180 days later. The sad thing was that this was a very large national agency with very big clients. They bill by upping the photographer's fees before they pass them on. If that agency normally up-charged my bill by 30% they now got 60%, AND they kept the money for five months!

For me it was money from heaven six months later. But the only thing that made it practicable was that my out of pocket expense even before I doubled my price was only about 10% of the fee. I have no doubt that these guys did this to all of their suppliers and I don't know how someone with a 10% MARGIN survived.

[robertwgross]

Most companies not only pay on time, they pay early.

You've never done business in Silicon Valley, have you?

I met with one company, and examples of previous work were shown, and there was a long talk about experience, etc. When all of that was done, then it was time to discuss money. The company rep said, "Well, there isn't any real money in the budget."

What they meant was that they wanted me to work for free!

Right then, I hit the magic button on my pager, and it sounded off. Then I looked at it and told these people that I had an urgent phone call to make, and then I walked out of the building.

---Bob Gross---

[DaveG]

You've never done business in Silicon Valley, have you?

I met with one company, and examples of previous work were shown, and there was a long talk about experience, etc. When all of that was done, then it was time to discuss money. The company rep said, "Well, there isn't any real money in the budget."

What they meant was that they wanted me to work for free!

Right then, I hit the magic button on my pager, and it sounded off. Then I looked at it and told these people that I had an urgent phone call to make, and then I walked out of the building.

---Bob Gross---


No that's never happened to me. It's also why I break a salesman's rule and give my prices out on the phone. I just don't want to waste time with a prospective client or a bride who thinks that I'm theirs for $25. Years ago I had a MBA student/groom say, "For that price ($400 then) we expect to have you for the entire day." I told him that wasn't the case and left.

I can remember when I worked for a daily newspaper I answered a call from a lady who wanted a reprint of a picture from a few years before. She could narrow it down to a name and got me to within perhaps 12 months of the publication date. My boss used to joke that we should charge them $15 for the print and $200 for the research, but I told her that we'd have a look and that an 8x10 would be in fact $15. Well she went right off on me, "I'm a poor widow woman." I told her to call the next day, but she obviously expected that print for nothing.

While I was at the same paper my boss gave me a wedding lead that was given to him by one of the advertising sales guys. I called and it was the owner of a Mazda car dealership. His daughter was getting married and he said and I quote,"I've got $250 for the wedding photos, and I expect some change." Now I would just immediatley end the call. "Sorry that'd give you about a half an hour of service." and would hang up before he got to try car saleman tricks. Back then I had to contend with angry ad salesmen so I stayed on the phone. When he mentioned that the photo editor had offered him an even better price I said, "Oh XX gave you that price? he's very good. (He wasn't.) You should go with him." all very polite.

The next day I asked the editor if he had been in contact with that swine and he told me that he hadn't. Anyway since then I've owned two Mazda's and I haven't set foot in that guy's showroom.

[NGrinerPhoto]

i got a call from a "return customer" that i had shot head shots for. they asked me for a discount because they were coming back for more. i told them sure ... but my rates went up.

[Tom Barnett]

What kind of newspaper is this? Is it a large daily or a small weekly? I know of large dailys that pay up to $300 for a picture and other dailys that pay $15. I would imagine this paper already has a priced set for freelancers. Every newspaper I've dealt with tells me what they pay.

[IndyJeff]

GET A WRITTEN AGREEMENT


Make sure it states the following:

1. What the use will be and for how long...i.e. editorial 1 time, 1 month, 1 year etc.
2. How much you will be paid.
3. When you will be paid.
4. What happens if payments are not made on time.
5. Resale or no resale by licensee (them)
6. Copyright/ownership, who does it belong to?
7. Proper credit in the publication and penalties for lack thereof.
8. The date this contract becomes effective and when it expires.

Make sure it is signed by both parties and each has a copy.