Using Flash Correctly? 580ex and 40D.

[nutsnbolts]

Ok, I'm having a hard time with this.

I attach the flash (580Ex) to the 40D, leave the settings to ETTL and shoot away on AP mode.

I try to do bounce flash to the ceiling but can't get the Shutter speed faster than 1/10 of a second if I'm lucky.

What am I supposed to expect with these settings? Is this correct?

In addition, I am using a 17-55, f/2.8 and even tried it with the 50mm f/1.8 and still I'm having a hard time with low light conditions.

Please help.

Thanks.

[runninmann]

This thread should answer your questions and a couple more you might have. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=637633

Hint: Camera in manual mode

[nutsnbolts]

This thread should answer your questions and a couple more you might have. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=637633

Hint: Camera in manual mode


Hmmm.....I just went through that post. Interesting, I never new you had to go into Manual mode, I was under the impression that AP/AS is considered to be Manual mode for the most part.

From my understanding, not being in manual mode caused the entire issue. If I was on Manual mode, I should be dial'ng in my Shutter speed to at least 1/60th of a second and then bump up the ISO accordingly.

I will definitely give this a try! Thanks for this post. I knew I was missing something.

[runninmann]

You probably won't have to increase the ISO. I do much of my casual flash shooting (parties and such) at around f/4.5-5.6, 1/125 sec, ISO 100 and let the flash take care of the rest.

[CliveyBoy]

Your camera has a Custom Function to control the shutter speed in Av mode when using flash - one solution to your problem. If you lock the shutter to 1/250th, you may get dark backgrounds with adequately-lit subject.

Remember that the ambient exposure is one thing, and the flash under ETTL control is an added-on separate exposure.

[zoom_zoom]

Yep, shoot in M mode with the flash is the way to go. Av mode is metering for ambient light.

[mattograph]

I shoot in M mode all the time with my 580 EX II in ETTL-II, with great results. An example:

http://www.mattograph.com/photos/443897113_Ctjzo-L.jpg

This came out of my 40D with the same lens as yours, 1/40 sec, ISO 800, f 2.8. Note the blown window did not blow the exposure (evaluative mode). For this shot, I actually had 2/3 of flash compensation dialed in, and had the flash bounced at 45 degrees off the wall BEHIND me. Didn't have a single exposure that day I couldn't use.

I have found I get the best results with the higher ISOs. That way, I can shoot the ambient and let the flash fill in the shadows, without any harshness.

[device01]

try this setting: normal height ceiling

iso 400, F3.5 - 4 and shutter speed 1/60 - Flash Manual : 1/4

if your shooting manual - have your self some guides. and work around it.

[tim]

try this setting: normal height ceiling

iso 400, F3.5 - 4 and shutter speed 1/60 - Flash Manual : 1/4

Makes more sense to use ETTL with FEC+1 IMHO.

[aia21]

I second tim on that one. I normally leave the flash on ETTL with my 40D and dial in +1/3 flash exposure compensation. I find +1 FEC blows the highlights in the majority of shots.

For camera settings I normally use iso 100-400 (depending on how light/dark the environment is), f/5.6 and shutter speed of 1-125-1/250 second (depending on how light/dark the environment is).

For example:

In small rooms with white ceilings I normally just use iso 200, 1/125s or iso 400, 1/200s or 1/250s.

In really large halls with very high ceilings the 580EXII power is not sufficient when bouncing at those settings so I tend to go to iso 400 or even iso 800, f/2.8 or f/4 (depending on lens, i.e. I shoot wide open) and then push the shutter speed as low as I need it - usually 1/125s but sometimes even 1/60s but I start getting motion blur despite the flash (children just move too fast when running around / jumping on bouncy castles, etc).

When shooting portraits in a controlled studio environment I use iso 100-400, 1/125s and f/2.8-5.6 varying the iso and f-stop to achieve the desired DOF. Usually wide open or close to it (f/2.8-f/4) for single head shot or f/5.6 for a two person next to each other shot and I adjust the iso to match - so I might shoot iso 100, f/2.8 or iso 200, f/4 or iso 400, f/5.6 given a constant light set up that works with those settings. For bigger groups I expect f/8 or f/11 would probably be needed (have never done more than two people at once in the studio so far)...

Best regards,

Anton

[tim]

I resist using ISO100 even in full sunlight... no reason... but i'm usually at 400 or faster unless I HAVE to be at 100 - eg shooting in full sunlight. I like ambient light, supplemented by flash, or flash supplemented by ambient, not just flash which is what you usually get at ISO100.

[aia21]

Hi Tim,

You don't shoot on a sunny beach very often then? :)

But I agree with you in general. My biggest exception is in studio environment where if anything you want to make sure the ambient light is not part of the lighting in the shots to avoid potential colour temperature problems between flash and ambient as well as to avoid your exposure being thrown off by a change in ambient.

Best regards,

Anton

[tim]

You don't shoot on a sunny beach very often then? :)

But I agree with you in general. My biggest exception is in studio environment where if anything you want to make sure the ambient light is not part of the lighting in the shots to avoid potential colour temperature problems between flash and ambient as well as to avoid your exposure being thrown off by a change in ambient.

Only every week! Well not quite, but pretty close. 1-2 weddings a week in summer, some at the beach but wherever we are it gets pretty bright here. I do drop to ISO100 sometimes, if i'm working with radio slaves, but otherwise I stay at ISO200 so I can use highlight tone priority, which I find increases dynamic range and gives me more latitude to push or pull the shot in post.

[puzzle]

Thanks guys (Tim and aia), your comments have been very useful :)

[nutsnbolts]

Ok, these are great things and lots to absorb. To simplify and play around with my settings, what i did was put it on ETTL and Manual mode. I then dialed my shutter speed to 1/60th or higher. I noticed that my meter was all the way far left. Do I still worry about the meter?

[JeffreyG]

Ok, these are great things and lots to absorb. To simplify and play around with my settings, what i did was put it on ETTL and Manual mode. I then dialed my shutter speed to 1/60th or higher. I noticed that my meter was all the way far left. Do I still worry about the meter?

No, forget the meter. The little meter in the VF is telling you what the camera thinks of your settings for ambient only. The meter does not anticipate the flash in any way. If you want the flash to be the main source of light in the shot then the meter will always be off the left side.

This is also why the camera performs so 'strangely' in Av and Tv modes with the flash mounted. Av and Tv always pick the dependent variable to properly expose the shot for ambient light. They will not deliberately underexpose ambient just because you turn on the flash.

[nutsnbolts]

No, forget the meter. The little meter in the VF is telling you what the camera thinks of your settings for ambient only. The meter does not anticipate the flash in any way. If you want the flash to be the main source of light in the shot then the meter will always be off the left side.

This is also why the camera performs so 'strangely' in Av and Tv modes with the flash mounted. Av and Tv always pick the dependent variable to properly expose the shot for ambient light. They will not deliberately underexpose ambient just because you turn on the flash.

Ahh great! I did take a few shots which looked fine but really, I don't know if it's fine or not. It looked good but how do you know when to push the ISO higher or specifically which shutter speed to go with other than the fact that you should go higher than 1/60th of a second.

I try to stick with the rule of ISO 100 and work from there. But based on everyone's response, there seems to be a play between going higher with ISO and so forth.

[JeffreyG]

Once you decide to light a scene with flash (and only flash) then settings actually become easy.

Shutter speed = set to the maximum sych speed.
Aperture = Set for the DOF you want
ISO = Set high enough that the flash does not run out of power trying to light the scene. Basically, if you take a shot and it is underexposed then you need to increase ISO.

Note that the 'reach' of your flash is 100% dependent on the ISO and aperture and shutter speed has no effect. Underexposure in E-TTL mode with flash that cannot be improved by +FEC indicates lack of flash power. Open up the aperture or increase the ISO or both.

[Rey.dos]

flash on ettl ...camera on 5.6, 30th, iso 400...bounce off the ceiling...
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h155/fr3akn0t/IMG_9922.jpg

[nutsnbolts]

Once you decide to light a scene with flash (and only flash) then settings actually become easy.

Shutter speed = set to the maximum sych speed.
Aperture = Set for the DOF you want
ISO = Set high enough that the flash does not run out of power trying to light the scene. Basically, if you take a shot and it is underexposed then you need to increase ISO.

Note that the 'reach' of your flash is 100% dependent on the ISO and aperture and shutter speed has no effect. Underexposure in E-TTL mode with flash that cannot be improved by +FEC indicates lack of flash power. Open up the aperture or increase the ISO or both.

Can you elaborate on set to maximum sync speed?

[tim]

Read the EOS Bible.

[Rey.dos]

Read the EOS Bible.

+100000...

[tim]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138907

[yogestee]

Ok, I'm having a hard time with this.

I attach the flash (580Ex) to the 40D, leave the settings to ETTL and shoot away on AP mode.

I try to do bounce flash to the ceiling but can't get the Shutter speed faster than 1/10 of a second if I'm lucky.

What am I supposed to expect with these settings? Is this correct?

In addition, I am using a 17-55, f/2.8 and even tried it with the 50mm f/1.8 and still I'm having a hard time with low light conditions.

Please help.

Thanks.

When shooting with flash always shoot in manual mode.. Exposure is much more easy to control..

[Wilt]

Ok, I'm having a hard time with this.

I attach the flash (580Ex) to the 40D, leave the settings to ETTL and shoot away on AP mode.

I try to do bounce flash to the ceiling but can't get the Shutter speed faster than 1/10 of a second if I'm lucky.

What am I supposed to expect with these settings? Is this correct?

In addition, I am using a 17-55, f/2.8 and even tried it with the 50mm f/1.8 and still I'm having a hard time with low light conditions.

Please help.

Thanks.

In Av mode, the meter will set the shutter speed to a slow speed in low light, in an attempt to use the ambient light in the photo. Separately the ETTL flash metering sets the light output for the flash. The camera is simply trying to give you a reasonable exposure assuming no flash, and in your low light the meter says it needs 1/10 for the selected aperture.