The whole gastly getting paid for photography thing

[letsmakeart]

I see this subject come up, and there are always a few people that have the brains to make money where they can (photography) and a whole bunch that just seem completely unwilling to make what they can out of it out of some aversion of actually being financially successful.

I have seen argument after argument for making good money out of photography because people have their own opinions on whether it's justifiable.

Well let me put it this way.

There are overpaid and useless people in every level of government and corporations. Some of these people can even make 250 - 300 dollars an hour, simply meeting with other people who are equally useless and overpaid.

The whole world is full of people making good money for doing what others could do for far less.

People are getting tied up about photographers making money, when in reality we have one of the most accountable roles that you can imagine. Our success and failure is presented visually in a way that most people and certainly our peers can easily identify.

You have a responsibility to yourself and to your family to be financially successful (whatever that means to you) to allow yourself (and them) to lead the life that you are meant to.

It's not even about I do this for this amount of money, money is an enabler that allows you to do things that you want and need to. So why get so hung up over it? If someone paid me twice as much as I get now for doing what I already do, I wouldn't be asking too many questions about their motivations other than to assume that what I am doing must be of an increased value to them.

I am not saying that you shouldn't be skilled, if you aren't then you should go and be a useless person in a business or government where it is less likely to be noticed. It's more that you should be the best you can and charge accordingly because you and the people around you deserve you to be a success.

[form]

I try to be the best I can, and I charge according to my skill level and knowledge. That's why I'm still a budget wedding photographer. To up my prices would put me in the same category as those "overpaid and useless people in every level of government and corporations." I don't want to be that kind of person.

If I didn't have some major weaknesses in my knowledge and creative eye, then maybe I could charge more.

[letsmakeart]

Yes but my comments aren't directed at you. I am talking about those people who think there should be no profit margin in photography. And when it is brought up it's talked about like a taboo.

[form]

I really don't know anyone who thinks there should be no profit margin. I know those here who believe they are worth a large amount of money (and a few of them are), and the rest of us who realize we're limited in what we can do and therefore charge accordingly. That doesn't mean a significant profit margin isn't there.

[form]

Bang Bang Bang!!! I'm browsing through theknot.com's comments section for who gets the budget brides that are in the market for someone priced like me. Scary what goes these days as an acceptable wedding photographer. Then those who do a better job than me start at around $1k and move up. Sigh.

[randplaty]

Bang Bang Bang!!! I'm browsing through theknot.com's comments section for who gets the budget brides that are in the market for someone priced like me. Scary what goes these days as an acceptable wedding photographer. Then those who do a better job than me start at around $1k and move up. Sigh.

Why do you keep thinking you suck? You're photos are very good. Worth a lot more than 1k.

[form]

Because...you know that special something that gives a really creative photographer the eye to catch the best elements at the right time, or to assemble them intentionally? I don't have that yet. And the same for the knowledge to put people in interesting poses, spots and environments: I don't have that either.

I can do a healthy amount of well-exposed shots, and some may be fairly good, but any time I catch a really good moment it's by luck and not skill. It should be the other way around (skill, not luck) if I'm doing my job like a real professional.

[FlyingPhotog]

Because...you know that special something that gives a really creative photographer the eye to catch the best elements at the right time, or to assemble them intentionally? I don't have that yet. And the same for the knowledge to put people in interesting poses, spots and environments: I don't have that either.

I can do a healthy amount of well-exposed shots, and some may be fairly good, but any time I catch a really good moment it's by luck and not skill. It should be the other way around (skill, not luck) if I'm doing my job like a real professional.

You have to allow for a certain amount of serendipity in any creative endeavor.

As the old saying goes: It's better to be lucky than good!

IOW, all you can do is prepare as best as possible to capture the moments as they happen. You can't (and shouldn't) place the burden on yourself for creating the moments as well.

[form]

I'm sorry, but I know that the best photographers know how and do create many of the moments, the poses, and so on. Knowledge, skill, creative eye, and style; those are what you pay for, just like with artwork.

[randplaty]

Because...you know that special something that gives a really creative photographer the eye to catch the best elements at the right time, or to assemble them intentionally? I don't have that yet. And the same for the knowledge to put people in interesting poses, spots and environments: I don't have that either.

I can do a healthy amount of well-exposed shots, and some may be fairly good, but any time I catch a really good moment it's by luck and not skill. It should be the other way around (skill, not luck) if I'm doing my job like a real professional.


You have good poses, good spots and environments. They may not be the best, but they are very good. That's worth more than 1K.

[bnlearle]

Alright, Form. You remind me of myself almost a year ago to date. I just spent some time going through your site and here were my thoughts.

First off, your photos are WAY better than you give them credit for. Sure you aren't Mike Colon or Jeff Ascough (yet) - but you also aren't charging $20k+ a wedding.

I'd love to see a 50-100 images slideshow from you of a full, recent wedding. That would really give me a better idea of your skill level. My hunch is that you are significantly better than you think you are.

Your website is where your problem lies, imo. Your header is great! Beautiful photos that make you look like a very legit wedding photographer (the one second to the right is the only one I don't care for being there). I don't exactly know where to go or what to do after the header. There are four paragraphs and I don't know which one is the most important so I feel like skipping. On your about me, I don't get a feel for who you are at all. Just sounds like a typical conveyer belt wedding photographer - which I don't think you are at this point. I want to know YOU more on it and I don't feel I can. The problem with having a site as a blog is that it can seem more proper to only have work related posts. This has you missing out on ALL the benefits of blogging. Jessica Claire's is one of the only blog/sites that I feel I can navigate around easily - and therefore has her blog for her personality as well - instead of just being a different format for a gallery.

You just need to get some confidence, is all. That will help you BELIEVE you're worth more. Make your site a little easier to navigate, more personal, get some full weddings, and I think you'll be well on your way! You've got talent, my friend. Something that many wedding photographers don't have ;)

[form]

As per your comments, I made two alterations to my site: The top header and the about me page. I have no photos of myself to add; no one has ever sent me photos of me at work and I typically am a solo shooter.

[bnlearle]

Awesome, man! Your header looks straight up legit. No lie. I think great things are in store for you. You're very self aware, self critical, and seem to be a nice, objective person concerned with becoming a better photographer. You've clearly got natural talent. So long as you're personable with clients you've got no where to go but up. I don't say that much, so don't think I'm just being nice. Like I said, you remind me of myself a year or so ago.

We can second shoot with you sometime, if you want ;) Might be in Vegas March 7th if you've got a wedding. That'll get you some photos.

[form]

That's nice of you to say, and yes I do want to become better, but anything mistaken for talent is probably just the result of that perfectionistic drive I obtained from my father. I'm personable, friendly and easy-going, but not bubbly.

I've got a 2 hour session on March 6, nothing on the 7th. Many of my jobs are 1-3 hours.

[harroz]

perfectionist drive is good, it puts you ahead of the pack straight away. There's so many photographers out there that don't have that drive and so aren't pushing themselves. POTN has some amazing photographers on it and if you spend a lot of time on here you kinda get the feeling that the world is full of amazing photographers, but in reality it is the ones with that drive that come here because they have that drive and are pushing themselves all the time, most without that drive wouldn't even be on the net looking. Talent mistaken, absolutely not! I've just been on your site for the 4th time in a week as well as others, for inspiration. I think confidence is probably one of the hardest things to master with photography, especially if you have a perfectionist drive, the two are linked, and it's really quite hard to find a balance as you need to keep that drive(not that you have a choice in the matter) and have to have the confidence. I found positivity to help, positive books etc, they help to create a positive outlook, especially in regards to how you view your own images. You're in Vegas, I'd give one of my wisdom teeth happily to shoot a wedding in Vegas, it's all in the mind. I'd also give the other one to have Bobby second shoot a wedding with me;-).

[bnlearle]

If you've got a plane ticket or some miles laying around, offer equally stands for you, as well, Harroz ;) I'd love to second shoot with ya...

Bobby

[eddarr]

form let me know if you really want some pictures of you while working. I am around and it wouldn't be a big deal. And listen to Bobby he knows what he is talking about. It is time to start charging more, even if just a little.

[form]

Can't charge more. My girlfriend and I have discussed this before. I only travel when my girlfriend wants to, because I have to save up all my spare money to be able to afford to go places with her (and still buy camera equipment every so often). No extra miles, but we do occasionally visit San Diego.

[eddarr]

form there are two podcasts on this page that I would like you to listen to. I think they are very topical for this discussion. You can read the story or listen to the podcasts part 1 and part 2.

http://www.tmelive.com/index.php/articles/view/28/24.html

[S.Horton]

To your point overall --

I think about 90% of all human "professional" endeavor in many fields is cr*p.

I don't think photography is an exception, overall.

So, when I hear people I know say they want to sell photos, I do not usually comment on their results.

[harroz]

*checks airpoints;-)*

alas we used those for our honeymoon to the Pacific Islands last year:-)

the offer is VERY much appreciated Bobby, maybe I'll hold you to that in a couple of years. Of course there would obviously be some kiwi hositality thrown in :-).

If you've got a plane ticket or some miles laying around, offer equally stands for you, as well, Harroz ;) I'd love to second shoot with ya...

Bobby