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cdmonkey
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 16:57
I was thinking about various comments I get about my images and those that I see about others work and I came to realise that Ive listened to much sometimes to feedback.
What I mean by that is there seems to be a push to everything being correct and so I've spent a lot of time trying to do just that.

Ive seen plenty of images that are over exposed, odd crops, strange colouring etc that are great and used in publications. So I'm not sure why there is a push for an image to be always technically correct.

Dont get me wrong im guilty of making the comments myself and this is not a dig or moan about anyone who has made a comment about my images.

Im just thinking outloud and realising that im going to think less about whether the images tick the right boxes and just go full ahead to create exactly what I have in mind.

as I said just thinking out loud, im sure tomorrow I will think differently

FlyingPhotog
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:08
Give 1000 monkeys a camera and eventually you'll get one "art" image suitable for publication.

Give 1 photographer who has a foundation of solid photographic skills (like proper exposure, straight horizons, proper framing, etc...) a camera and you'll get 1000 such images.

IMO, one key thing to remember around here is that you're only seeing the one or two images that someone has chosen to post. You don't see the ones that weren't keepers and you have no idea how many frames it took to get just those two.

You're far better off being willing to share the near misses and learning through critiques from others why something didn't quite work than only showing the contest winners where there are no nits to pick.

Just my $0.02...

Kagemaru
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:15
I think one thing you need to realize about this board, especially the G&N forums, is that most of the people making comments, learned how to C&C from other board members, have very little experience in shooting and most of all, have little or no experience shooting G&N. Therefore their comments tend to get a rather redundant. However, this doesn't stop them from commenting and creating some sort of strange POTN standard for what a good G&N image is. If we all tried to please the GWCs on this forum, our photos would look really boring. My advice is to look for critique elsewhere, somewhere other than POTN. The model mayhem forums are actually quite good and their is a much wider range of photographers that post there.

cdmonkey
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:17
totally agree, but if you aim to over expose an image because thats the look youve gone for all you get is a handful of comments, "its overeposed" the only critic you get push an image to fit into rules.

Also there is very, very, very little critic here, I cant remember the last time someone said "move the key light here and adjust the ratio and..."

Again im not moaning, although no one will believe that.

FlyingPhotog
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:20
totally agree, but if you aim to over expose an image because thats the look youve gone for all you get is a handful of comments, "its overeposed" the only critic you get push an image to fit into rules.

Also there is very, very, very little critic here, I cant remember the last time someone said "move the key light here and adjust the ratio and..."

Again im not moaning, although no one will believe that.

Do you make it a point to specifically say "Help me improve the lighting here" or "Does the Key/Fill ratio look good to you?"

I see far more people just tagging on "C&C Welcome" and far less "Please tell me what you think of X, Y or Z"

dsmPhotoCompany
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:22
Give 1000 monkeys a camera and eventually you'll get one "art" image suitable for publication.

Give 1 photographer who has a foundation of solid photographic skills (like proper exposure, straight horizons, proper framing, etc...) a camera and you'll get 1000 such images.

IMO, one key thing to remember around here is that you're only seeing the one or two images that someone has chosen to post. You don't see the ones that weren't keepers and you have no idea how many frames it took to get just those two.

You're far better off being willing to share the near misses and learning through critiques from others why something didn't quite work than only showing the contest winners where there are no nits to pick.

Just my $0.02...

I think one thing you need to realize about this board, especially the G&N forums, is that most of the people making comments, learned how to C&C from other board members, have very little experience in shooting and most of all, have little or no experience shooting G&N. Therefore their comments tend to get a rather redundant. However, this doesn't stop them from commenting and creating some sort of strange POTN standard for what a good G&N image is. If we all tried to please the GWCs on this forum, our photos would look really boring. My advice is to look for critique elsewhere, somewhere other than POTN. The model mayhem forums are actually quite good and their is a much wider range of photographers that post there.

bw!

cdmonkey
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:23
very true flyingphotog, I dont. I just take it for granted so thats a fair point.

kagemaru, Ive just signed up to mm and another site and the feedback is quite different so I look forward to that.

Kagemaru
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:25
totally agree, but if you aim to over expose an image because thats the look youve gone for all you get is a handful of comments, "its overeposed" the only critic you get push an image to fit into rules.

Also there is very, very, very little critic here, I cant remember the last time someone said "move the key light here and adjust the ratio and..."

Again im not moaning, although no one will believe that.

Yeah that's true. Most of the members here don't know what's new and happening in the photo world. A lot of the critiques I see on here can be applied to a number of images I see all the time in fashion mags, SI, etc... So it doesn't make them wrong, just wrong to the eyes of this little world called POTN.

Also there is very, very, very little critic here, I cant remember the last time someone said "move the key light here and adjust the ratio and...

That's because most of the readers here don't have that level of knowledge. Just look at the amount of views some of the threads get, thousands.. yet only 10-12 responses. That's a lot of lurkers looking for new J/O material if you ask me!

cdmonkey
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:28
That's because most of the readers here don't have that level of knowledge. Just look at the amount of views some of the threads get, thousands.. yet only 10-12 responses. That's a lot of lurkers looking for new J/O material if you ask me!


sad but true.

Kagemaru
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:30
sad but true.

Yeah I don't come here to learn anything anymore. Just for sharing. Not to say there's nothing for me to learn, it's just that some of the better photogs don't share their knowledge, and that's fine with me, I'll just go elsewhere to find it. What you end up with is a bunch of novices telling other novices how they should shoot.. It's like the blind leading the blind.

FlyingPhotog
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:32
Yeah I don't come here to learn anything anymore. Just for sharing. Not to say there's nothing for me to learn, it's just that some of the better photogs don't share their knowledge, and that's fine with me, I'll just go elsewhere to find it. What you end up with is a bunch of novices telling other novices how they should shoot.. It's like the blind leading the blind.

The other side of the coin though:

Many of those "novices" are convinced they've got it knocked and don't want to hear what other photographers have to say.

They mastered World Of Warcraft or Super Mario Karts in one night, how hard can photography be, right?

12mnkys
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:33
Yeah that's true. Most of the members here don't know what's new and happening in the photo world. A lot of the critiques I see on here can be applied to a number of images I see all the time in fashion mags, SI, etc... So it doesn't make them wrong, just wrong to the eyes of this little world called POTN.

Also there is very, very, very little critic here, I cant remember the last time someone said "move the key light here and adjust the ratio and...

That's because most of the readers here don't have that level of knowledge. Just look at the amount of views some of the threads get, thousands.. yet only 10-12 responses. That's a lot of lurkers looking for new J/O material if you ask me!

I don't think many people are searching the GN boards for JO material! I guess there could be a few, but I would say the overwhelming majority are spiked by curiousity and looking for ideas and suggestions. You would have to be pretty lamo to find whacky mat'l here on POTN... There are hundreds of places that you can go for that! :cool:

Just my .02

MK

Kagemaru
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:35
The other side of the coin though:

Many of those "novices" are convinced they've got it knocked and don't want to hear what other photographers have to say.

They mastered World Of Warcraft or Super Mario Karts in one night, how hard can photography be, right?

It's possible. But they probably also know if they show some boobage, they'll get praise :)

Kagemaru
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:38
I don't think many people are searching the GN boards for JO material! I guess there could be a few, but I would say the overwhelming majority are spiked by curiousity and looking for ideas and suggestions. You would have to be pretty lamo to find whacky mat'l here on POTN... There are hundreds of places that you can go for that! :cool:

Just my .02

MK

Look at the number of thread views in the G&N forum.. usually in the thousands.. then look at the people forum.. usually in the hundreds LOL.

PCthug
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 17:57
Dont forget photography is like art, what appeals to some wont to others.
I have submitted one or two of mine that i really like, to G&N and had people give their opinions. I may not agree with them, because I LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS.
Its all a very personal thing, photography (any photography), and who is to say, this 'should' be like this, and that 'should' be like that. You 'should' use the rule of thirds, you 'shouldn't' have a sloping horizon.
I have seen some beautiful photos on G&N, and listened to people state it would be better if...., but that is in their eyes, and not necessarily mine.
Then i have seen some mediocre ones, that have had a little cleavage going for them and nothing else, and these get praised.

hawk911
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 18:21
sad but true.

There's an inherent problem with the G&N forum- anyone can look but only advanced members can post. A lurker can view and drive the count up; and they can never comment.

Kagemaru
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 18:38
There's an inherent problem with the G&N forum- anyone can look but only advanced members can post. A lurker can view and drive the count up; and they can never comment.

It would be nice if only the ones that actually post can comment.

Apexer
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 18:42
I don't think many people are searching the GN boards for JO material! I guess there could be a few, but I would say the overwhelming majority are spiked by curiousity and looking for ideas and suggestions. You would have to be pretty lamo to find whacky mat'l here on POTN... There are hundreds of places that you can go for that!

Just my .02

MK

Agree 1000%. I go to GnN forum on occasion just to see what other photogs are looking for, just like I do with every other forum. A pleasant bonus is I get to see some rather great shots of the fantastic female form in various states of, um....exposure.

One thing that keeps the post/thread count ratio outta whack are the forum rules ( 500 post count I believe before you can contribute ). Which is not at all a suggestion to modify this rule, which I completely agree with.

*edit*
There's an inherent problem with the G&N forum- anyone can look but only advanced members can post. A lurker can view and drive the count up; and they can never comment.

I should read page two. =)

dsmPhotoCompany
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 19:38
The other side of the coin though:

Many of those "novices" are convinced they've got it knocked and don't want to hear what other photographers have to say.

They mastered World Of Warcraft or Super Mario Karts in one night, how hard can photography be, right?

It's possible. But they probably also know if they show some boobage, they'll get praise :)

So true. And with that, time to go take a self portrait of my man tits.

It would be nice if only the ones that actually post can comment.

+1

hawk911
2nd of February 2009 (Mon), 20:31
or view? Let's get the numbers in line. Millions of views by every kid that found out his Dad's site has nekkid boobies on it, and he can look for free.

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 10:28
Lately, this forum has gotten really out of hand. I can remember when actual photographers commented on the images. What's happening now, is people go on this forum just to comment and throw their narcissistic opinions around, without posting any images, themselves. I know, it's happened to me quite frequently. As I said in another forum, when I get crits, I go explore the posters body of work. If they HAVE no work, or their work is not up to standard, I move on. I want to receive critique from people that actually shoot G/N.

I get these crits that are scathing, then I go look at what they've posted and their work is worse than mine ( and that's pretty bad!). What's up with that? I can't imagine what some of these guys are thinking. Then, if we say something, they get all bent out of shape and say, "well, you ASKED for it" and get all defensive.

It's far easier being a critic, than an artist. Now before you go jumping on me, I have been a professional musician for 30+ years. It's like some lame guitar player coming up to me after a concert and saying "you need to do this or that". If they have no chops, themselves, they really ought to keep quiet. At least I'm putting my work out there. And I know, when you do, you better have thick skin because art ( in whatever form) is not quantitative, it's qualitative.

TOO MANY CRITICS. TOO FEW ARTISTS!

Not sure I'm diggin this forum with it's current line-up of critics. It's funny, because I will send some of my images to some REAL professional glamour/nude photographers who have shot frequently for Playboy, Penthouse, Maxim, etc. and get their feedback. They are not shy. I may get great results from their input. I post the very same image on this forum, and it gets torn apart by a bunch of wannabes.

I know I have alot of room for improvement, but I want to be judged by people that have the credentials to judge me. Not some kid with a camera. Having a camera does not make you a photographer any more than having a race car makes you a race car driver or owning a guitar makes you a guitar player.

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 11:37
Yeah I agree with Ferrari 1. I made a post about this very subject and got flamed to death LOL. I was basically saying, I just want to share my images and not get critiqued.. I figured that's what the critique forum was for. There are a few other board that have pretty cool rules about critique, if you want it, ask for it, if you don't, know one will critique. The problem I had with critiques was exactly what you stated above, members with zero experience or knowledge, tearing my work apart. Pretty annoying actually. It's one of the reasons why I don't post her much anymore. It's not that I'm afraid of critique, it's just that I know this isn't the place to get valid critique from knowledgeable and experienced photographers.

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 11:48
Yeah I agree with Ferrari 1. I made a post about this very subject and got flamed to death LOL. I was basically saying, I just want to share my images and not get critiqued.. I figured that's what the critique forum was for. There are a few other board that have pretty cool rules about critique, if you want it, ask for it, if you don't, know one will critique. The problem I had with critiques was exactly what you stated above, members with zero experience or knowledge, tearing my work apart. Pretty annoying actually. It's one of the reasons why I don't post her much anymore. It's not that I'm afraid of critique, it's just that I know this isn't the place to get valid critique from knowledgeable and experienced photographers.

I'm afraid you are right on about this. I have come to learn that this is not the place to get positive input and critique on work. I get much better results emailing my images back and forth between photographers whose work I respect. Like I said,
The world has too many critics already. What is needs is more artists.

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 12:02
I definitely don't use this place for critique. Mostly to share and honestly to show off. Definitly not to win the praise of the members. If I did, my body of work would be totally different, more GWC style.

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 12:07
hehe, nice thread...how'd i miss it.

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 12:15
hehe, nice thread...how'd i miss it.

It was moved :(

Toblerone
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 12:55
It was moved :(

so what's wrong with hand bras, Kage? There goes my Sat shoot.... ;)

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 13:02
so what's wrong with hand bras, Kage? There goes my Sat shoot.... ;)

Nothing, as lons as they are my hands ;)

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 13:02
So, what's a hand bra?

shooterman
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 13:25
Nothing, as lons as they are my hands ;)
LMAO :) bw!

I agree with everything you've said in this thread!

I was just ranting with a friend today about interweb forum critic wannabes with absolutely no experience at what they are critiquing. :rolleyes:

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 13:48
Nothing, as lons as they are my hands ;)

HAHAHAHAHA!!!:cool:

dsmPhotoCompany
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 14:26
Hand thong > Hand Bra

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 14:51
Hand thong > Hand Bra

here here!!!


*...waits for the closing of this thread:p

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:25
LMAO :) bw!

I agree with everything you've said in this thread!

I was just ranting with a friend today about interweb forum critic wannabes with absolutely no experience at what they are critiquing. :rolleyes:

So, then it's NOT just me that is getting frustrated! I think my season with POTN might be nearing an end. Or, at the very least, I may be taking a posting sabatical for a bit.

I posted new thread, last night, 18 hours ago with 1100 views and not one comment. I cannot believe that out of 1100 people, not one is a senior member. It's either a freakin' vacuum, or some young wannabes spouting off about how I could've done everything better.

What's the point in posting photos?

Hello? Hello? Bueller? Anyone?

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:26
And I STILL don't know what a hand bra is. Women don't even WEAR bras in S. Florida!

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:31
So, then it's NOT just me that is getting frustrated! I think my season with POTN might be nearing an end. Or, at the very least, I may be taking a posting sabatical for a bit.

I posted new thread, last night, 18 hours ago with 1100 views and not one comment. I cannot believe that out of 1100 people, not one is a senior member. It's either a freakin' vacuum, or some young wannabes spouting off about how I could've done everything better.

What's the point in posting photos?

Hello? Hello? Bueller? Anyone?

How much boobage was in your photo? See I think there is a mathematical formula for calculating the number of responses you'll get. More boobage = more responses. Photo quality is not a part of the equation.

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:35
How much boobage was in your photo? See I think there is a mathematical formula for calculating the number of responses you'll get. More boobage = more responses. Photo quality is not a part of the equation.

WHY DIDN"T YOU SAY SO!!! I don't remember reading that in the POTN rules, but I'm sure you're 100% right.

There was actual full boobage. They were a little small, but definite nippleage. I guess I need to bring out the BIG guns! Maybe I'll start a thread called, "BIG ONES". That'll get the boys fired up.

Seriously, I should just do a test to see what happens. Most guys don't know THIS thread exists. So, I get no responses or, at best, stupid responses to my serious attempts. I may really start a thread and call it Big Ones and put a shot of my wife's rack up there. No face, no torso, just a big rack. And see how many responses I get to that...................

Things that make you go, "Hmmmmmm"..........

So, will you guys at least wave to me on my way out after I get Banned For Life?

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:37
ok, i'll explain it...

Hand bra - using her hand to cup and hold her breast in a gentle saucy manner.

Thus, Iclick's hand thong! or my favorite - mouth bra or the ever pushing the limit tongue thong.

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:39
WHY DIDN"T YOU SAY SO!!! I don't remember reading that in the POTN rules, but I'm sure you're 100% right.

There was actual full boobage. They were a little small, but definite nippleage. I guess I need to bring out the BIG guns! Maybe I'll start a thread called, "BIG ONES". That'll get the boys fired up.

I think it's an unwritten GWC rule.. By the way, any use of unorthodox or artistic lighting will negate any boobage.

You want huge props on your pics? I'd suggest, scantily clad strippers posing on silk or velvet cupping their breasts or sticking they're asses at the camera.

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:43
I think it's an unwritten GWC rule.. By the way, any use of unorthodox or artistic lighting will negate any boobage.

You want huge props on your pics? I'd suggest, scantily clad strippers posing on silk or velvet cupping their breasts or sticking they're asses at the camera.

Okay. Got it. Stay tuned.............. I'm going to find some throw away shot, I've done, and post it as a serious thread and see what happens. I think I'm starting to like this forum again.:cool:

medic583
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:51
I was thinking about various comments I get about my images and those that I see about others work and I came to realise that Ive listened to much sometimes to feedback.

What I mean by that is there seems to be a push to everything being correct and so I've spent a lot of time trying to do just that.

Ive seen plenty of images that are over exposed, odd crops, strange colouring etc that are great and used in publications. So I'm not sure why there is a push for an image to be always technically correct.

Dont get me wrong im guilty of making the comments myself and this is not a dig or moan about anyone who has made a comment about my images.

Im just thinking outloud and realising that im going to think less about whether the images tick the right boxes and just go full ahead to create exactly what I have in mind.

as I said just thinking out loud, im sure tomorrow I will think differently

Heh all... lurker here :)

Although I am too new to photography to even attempt shots acceptable for the G & N forums... I am one of the lurkers mentioned.

Why... because I want to learn everything I can about photography... and I find that some people here have shots that simply drop my jaw in awe (Lorek, Jason Cole, Robert Bell, Peter Hansen, and Frank Doorhof are some that pop to mind right away). I'm not really intrested in macro, not really intrested in performing arts, kids and family and the like... but do like landscape, people and automotive shooting the best. Honestly... I find people fascinating... the moods, the styles, the look in the eyes that makes you wonder... you name it...

Given that... I really want to feel more comfortable shooting people... yet still have to gather up the courage to shoot such... get over that feeling that I'm right in someones personal space... and it is something I am working on (hard to explain as I'm in peoples personal space daily at work, yet through a lens it seems different).

So... point of the whole post... when I browse forums daily seeing what I like and don't like... I also intently watch the comments about the technical aspects of the shoots. If I don't like the composition... I move on... If I like the composition... I look to see what others have to say about how it could be made differently... or better.

For me... the artistic vision is something I lack... and most likely the reason I look to that first... but being very technically minded I "need" to know how to better a shot as well.

Not that my opinion counts for much... not just on here but many of the other forums as well I see a focus on just the technical aspects like cdmonkey stated... yet often not about the creative aspect which I feel is what draws me to liking or disliking a photo in the first place (they kind of come hand in hand I guess though).

So... is it better to ignore the technical part of the equation and just attempt to be creative? I'm guessing that it comes hand in hand... one has to know the technical aspects of photography/art to even start being creative?

Or... can someone produce a technically perfect shot, yet lack creativity and uniqueness? Again... guessing that one could, yet who would admire it or be inspired by it?

Yet I'm thinking it would be nice to see what people think about both... the creativeness of the shot and how to technically make it better...

Deviant Art (http://browse.deviantart.com/photography/?order=9) is still one of my favourite sites to visit for inspiration... yet I find that I constantly gravitate back here to learn more about how it's done. Again... people like Robert Mitchell and Curt Newport amongst so many others are invaluable with this... truly inspiring taking in even the littlest bit of information on how things are done and help soo much on the learning curve.

Anyhow... just a lurkers thoughts and as I mentioned... I am soo new to even picking up a camera... but hopefully one day I will be able to post up in the G&N forums and be proud of not just what I've learned technically, but artistically as well. In the mean time... back to work with the learning :)

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:58
I take "creative" over "technical" anyday. Anyone can teach you to be technically proficient. No one can teach you to be creative. You either have that, or you don't.

But that's a great post you put here! When I was first getting started, a friend ( a pro ) said he would be willing to teach me because he could see that I envisioned the finished product in my mind before I started shooting. Then I backed into how to achieve the end result I picture in my mind. He said he could NOT teach that. What he COULD teach was how to get there.

Welcome aboard, and don't be shy. Just envision your finished product and work towards it. You'll do just fine.

Toblerone
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 15:58
How much boobage was in your photo? See I think there is a mathematical formula for calculating the number of responses you'll get. More boobage = more responses. Photo quality is not a part of the equation.

Dave, seriously what IS your problems with boobs?? :p Just kidding!!

OK, seriously guys, here's my take on this -- who cares what the average POTN member has to say about ur work...it's what u make out of it that counts. Comments and critics were not created equal. For example, I admire Dave's work and respect his opinion about mine*...that is not always the case for other users of the forum. That should probably go without saying. It just makes sense.

(*but then again, there are times when Dave thinks I should not have certain pics of hot male models in my port because he sees no value in them, but I can't make myself take them down just because the model happens to be that good-looking!! :lol:)

Ferrari 1
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 16:06
Dave, seriously what IS your problems with boobs?? :p Just kidding!!

OK, seriously guys, here's my take on this -- who cares what the average POTN member has to say about ur work...it's what u make out of it that counts. Comments and critics were not created equal. For example, I admire Dave's work and respect his opinion about mine*...that is not always the case for other users of the forum. That should probably go without saying. It just makes sense.

(*but then again, there are times when Dave thinks I should not have certain pics of hot male models in my port because he sees no value in them, but I can't make myself take them down just because the model happens to be that good-looking!! :lol:)


I hear ya , brother. But then why post any images if we don't care what other people think of them? It would be like composing a song that we know no one will ever hear.

I think I'm sticking with my "Big Ones" thread and see if it lasts as long as the Wives/GF thread I started about 2 million views ago.

Toblerone
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 16:07
I hear ya , brother. But then why post any images if we don't care what other people think of them? It would be like composing a song that we know no one will ever hear.

I think I'm sticking with my "Big Ones" thread and see if it lasts as long as the Wives/GF thread I started about 2 million views ago.

ur not reading carefully. I care what certain (not a small group either, btw) people think. ;)

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 16:11
Heh all... lurker here :)

Although I am too new to photography to even attempt shots acceptable for the G & N forums... I am one of the lurkers mentioned.

Why... because I want to learn everything I can about photography... and I find that some people here have shots that simply drop my jaw in awe (Jason Cole, Robert Bell, Peter Hansen, and Frank Doorhof, Flipstyle are some that pop to mind right away). I'm not really intrested in macro, not really intrested in performing arts, kids and family and the like... but do like landscape, people and automotive shooting the best. Honestly... I find people fascinating... the moods, the styles, the look in the eyes that makes you wonder... you name it...



oh man, thank you...but I don't belong in same catagory as them guys...:cool: (I love inflating my own ego & and I love editing quotes)

Hey, I don't mind lurkers... If i create an image that makes an impact on someone, even if they dont' say it...then i did my job. I don't do this for the money but as an art form. Everyone has different tastes and if someone doesn't like my work...well, then they probably lack taste!:p

I'm with Dave on this....I post because I like to. Not particularly looking for input, but not closed to it either. Not trying to sound cocky, but I usually know when my work is crap and when it isn't. it's a never ending learning process...It's usually critique's of the technical sort you always read about. People with a lack of an artistic eye have to find something to complain about right?

Ferrari...don't leave man...keep doign what you do. No matter who does or doesn't like it.

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 16:44
So I guess the moral of the story is, don't limit yourself to POTN, take it with a grain of salt...

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 16:56
So I guess the moral of the story is, don't limit yourself to POTN, take it with a grain of salt...


and when in need... Ask Kage to be the hand bra stand in.

harroz
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 17:14
Ferrari... do it. throw the big guns up ;-)

I'll critique, for what it's worth

Toblerone
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 17:20
Ferrari... do it. throw the big guns up ;-)

I'll critique, for what it's worth

haha, and I'm gonna join u on that one, Mark!!

hawk911
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 17:41
I guess I thought the critique forum wasn't for G&N content. Never spent much time there as I thought this was where the images should be posted. I'll have to go wandering. I also assumed any photo here was fair game for C&C-regardless of intent of the OP.

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 17:44
I guess I thought the critique forum wasn't for G&N content. Never spent much time there as I thought this was where the images should be posted. I'll have to go wandering. I also assumed any photo here was fair game for C&C-regardless of intent of the OP.

Would seem so but if that's the case, why have a critique sub-forum?

hawk911
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 17:49
find me a G&N in the critique forum, please. The critique sub forum seems to be for tamer subjects, not T&A (my wife's term for this side of the world)

medic583
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 17:54
oh man, thank you...but I don't belong in same catagory as them guys...:cool: (I love inflating my own ego & and I love editing quotes)

Hey, I don't mind lurkers... If i create an image that makes an impact on someone, even if they dont' say it...then i did my job. I don't do this for the money but as an art form. Everyone has different tastes and if someone doesn't like my work...well, then they probably lack taste!:p

I'm with Dave on this....I post because I like to. Not particularly looking for input, but not closed to it either. Not trying to sound cocky, but I usually know when my work is crap and when it isn't. it's a never ending learning process...It's usually critique's of the technical sort you always read about. People with a lack of an artistic eye have to find something to complain about right?

Ferrari...don't leave man...keep doign what you do. No matter who does or doesn't like it.

haha... Flipstyle... YOUR PHOTOS ROCK!

Seriously... just browsing your smugmug stuff... wow... love the compositions, the style, the lighting... definatly bookmarking your site too :)

Ha... and yes... I didn't mention all those whose work I admire... too many of ya to list :)

VA2GXB
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 18:31
. However, this doesn't stop them from commenting and creating some sort of strange POTN standard for what a good G&N image is. .

Oh, do my fiancée and I ever agree with you!! It can be come so mundane in there

dsmPhotoCompany
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 18:32
Oh, do my fiancée

Whoa...

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 18:35
Whoa...

hahaha you caught that one too eh? POTN freaks i tell ya!

VA2GXB
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 18:38
Lads...sentence structure!!!

'Do we' then!! I and my fiancée does not exist as a conjugation

Kagemaru
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 18:40
When I am King I shall speak his English!

VA2GXB
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 18:41
As she should'th be spake!! Anyway, back OT :p

Umbrellas coming this week, I'm really looking foward to a little more G&N

flipstyle72
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 18:50
Lads...sentence structure!!!

'Do we' then!! I and my fiancée does not exist as a conjugation

HAHA, i understood it the first time... I just have a naughty mind. lol. But do you have shots of your wife in G&N? :p

Dave, you're becoming King?

VA2GXB
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 19:03
One or two, but they are early work... one minute and I dig out the thread

VA2GXB
3rd of February 2009 (Tue), 19:05
Here we go :

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=513112

And Hail King Dave!!

http://www.asiteformoreeyes.com/King%20Dave.jpg

Jon Foster
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 00:17
Interesting thread. I think I pretty much suck as a photographer (from technical merit to the art aspect). Thus it's not the profession I use to make the majority of my income. I also don't post too many critical comments because, well, I suck as a photog! I do come here to see what other people are working on, have done and try to pick up a few tips and tricks. I've been hanging out in the G&N section lately because I need to pick up some help on G&N. I need to generate more income and I'm seriously thinking about using G&N as a way to do that...

Jon.

VA2GXB
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 04:49
Too much of public opinion can cause fuss. It can stifle ones enthusiasm, but equally you can learn from masters. When I saw Lorek, cdi, Jason Cole etc. comment at least a little positively on my work, I just about fell off my seat. Even my dad knows who Jason is

inthedeck
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 13:40
WOW! :shock:

Now I see the reference...and I just can't believe it all. This doesn't set a good example for the people that are trying to learn, AT ALL, in my opinion. So, keep at it...and scare the people that 'do' want to learn something completely away. Just remember the impression that you will leave upon them, through this thread. :rolleyes:

DerekW
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 13:46
That's because most of the readers here don't have that level of knowledge. Just look at the amount of views some of the threads get, thousands.. yet only 10-12 responses. That's a lot of lurkers looking for new J/O material if you ask me!


:zips pants and buttons up trenchcoat, leaves quietly: http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.ls1tech.com/get/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/secret.gif

DerekW
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 14:35
Give 1000 monkeys a camera and eventually you'll get one "art" image suitable for publication.

Give 1 photographer who has a foundation of solid photographic skills (like proper exposure, straight horizons, proper framing, etc...) a camera and you'll get 1000 such images.

Just my $0.02...

But is it a 1000 boring, repetitive, anybody-can-take-that-picture pictures?

Does that mean Picasso was not a publishable artist because he did not paint with the proper exposure, straight horizons, and proper framing like Rembrandt?

Art needs to be taken as subjective, there is nothing wrong with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, but I see alot of pictures that are just as "publishable" as pictures I see in magazines, but they are completely panned here by certain individuals. It makes me not want to post pics as I don't want to defend my art instead of learning from helpful people.

It could be a simply stunning picture that 99% of us would be happy to have taken, and some primadonna yahoo say "The eyes look soft".
Drives me nuts

Mark_Cohran
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 14:38
Just to clarify things a bit - G&N content should not be submitted to the Critique forum. G&N Photo sharing is the correct place for that type of content. If you just want to share and aren't interested in critique, just say so in your post. If you do want C&C, you can specify that as well.

POTN has members from all over the world with all levels of experience, so any comments and critique should be taken with a grain of salt based on your own experience and the perceived validity of the critique provided.

flipstyle72
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 14:40
But is it a 1000 boring, repetitive, anybody-can-take-that-picture pictures?

Does that mean Picasso was not a publishable artist because he did not paint with the proper exposure, straight horizons, and proper framing like Rembrandt?

Art needs to be taken as subjective, there is nothing wrong with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, but I see alot of pictures that are just as "publishable" as pictures I see in magazines, but they are completely panned here by certain individuals. It makes me not want to post pics as I don't want to defend my art instead of learning from helpful people.

It could be a simply stunning picture that 99% of us would be happy to have taken, and some primadonna yahoo say "The eyes look soft".
Drives me nuts


haha...here here!!

Ferrari 1
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 14:56
Just to clarify things a bit - G&N content should not be submitted to the Critique forum. G&N Photo sharing is the correct place for that type of content. If you just want to share and aren't interested in critique, just say so in your post. If you do want C&C, you can specify that as well.

POTN has members from all over the world with all levels of experience, so any comments and critique should be taken with a grain of salt based on your own experience and the perceived validity of the critique provided.

I LOVE this guy! Mark, you are always the voice of reason and sanity. How DO you put up with all of us/this?

By the way, thanks for what you do.

mjmackinnon
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 15:19
Give 1000 monkeys a camera and eventually you'll get one "art" image suitable for publication.

Give 1 photographer who has a foundation of solid photographic skills (like proper exposure, straight horizons, proper framing, etc...) a camera and you'll get 1000 such images.



I think the real expression is: Give 1 photographer who whas a foundation of solid photographic skills, and you will get 1000 images that are never quite perfect in his opinion.

I have lurked on this forum section for some time now to learn from example, and I have concluded that I just don't get the rules, or they change every week.

I think that exposure, composition, framing and content are all in the eye of the beholder. There has been posts from some that I look at and think, OMG that looks just wrong, and yet there have been comments that the composition of the photo is great. I have thought that some were over exposed, only to read that someone thought it was fine.

I think that if you go into an art gallery, you will find that there are 1/3 the paintings that you like, 1/3 that are ok, and the rest you will wonder why they are in an art gallery to begin with. But someone must have seen something in them to put them there.

I am getting the feeling that a critique is just someone elses opionion, and doesn't really hold any weight unless they are the customer buying the work.

Matt.

Perry Ge
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 16:31
WOW! :shock:

Now I see the reference...and I just can't believe it all. This doesn't set a good example for the people that are trying to learn, AT ALL, in my opinion. So, keep at it...and scare the people that 'do' want to learn something completely away. Just remember the impression that you will leave upon them, through this thread. :rolleyes:

Just to clarify things a bit - G&N content should not be submitted to the Critique forum. G&N Photo sharing is the correct place for that type of content. If you just want to share and aren't interested in critique, just say so in your post. If you do want C&C, you can specify that as well.

POTN has members from all over the world with all levels of experience, so any comments and critique should be taken with a grain of salt based on your own experience and the perceived validity of the critique provided.
+1 to both of these.

Watch the attitude guys, the kind of cliquey elitism that this thread exudes isn't the POTN way, this is a friendly forum for people of all skill levels and interests. It's also completely hypocritical to whinge about people not commenting in your threads, and then complaining about the comments you do receive.

I used to love the G&N forums and learned quite a bit from them - though as Mark said you have to interpret the comments you get and not take everything as authority. Now the vibe has changed, and it's too much like the MM forums - complaining about there being a perceived right 'POTN' way and then just repeating stuff that gets said on the MM forums is, again, plain hypocrisy.

If you wanna help people learn, be encouraging, and provide constructive criticism, great - if you wanna gloat about how you're better than everyone else, maybe POTN isn't the best place for it.

DerekW
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 17:52
I think the real expression is: Give 1 photographer who whas a foundation of solid photographic skills, and you will get 1000 images that are never quite perfect in his opinion.

I have lurked on this forum section for some time now to learn from example, and I have concluded that I just don't get the rules, or they change every week.

I think that exposure, composition, framing and content are all in the eye of the beholder. There has been posts from some that I look at and think, OMG that looks just wrong, and yet there have been comments that the composition of the photo is great. I have thought that some were over exposed, only to read that someone thought it was fine.

I think that if you go into an art gallery, you will find that there are 1/3 the paintings that you like, 1/3 that are ok, and the rest you will wonder why they are in an art gallery to begin with. But someone must have seen something in them to put them there.

I am getting the feeling that a critique is just someone elses opionion, and doesn't really hold any weight unless they are the customer buying the work.

Matt.


No kidding, eh? I think someone needs to gently tell Dave Hill, that his pictures really could use a little more colour, they look so... so... so... I dunno.........desaturated, I guess? Maybe he needs to check his white balance or something.
Poor dude will never make any money.
:)

Mark_Cohran
4th of February 2009 (Wed), 18:50
I have lurked on this forum section for some time now to learn from example, and I have concluded that I just don't get the rules, or they change every week.

I am getting the feeling that a critique is just someone elses opinion, and doesn't really hold any weight unless they are the customer buying the work.

Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules... :) Actually, with regard to comments and forum behavior, that's obviously NOT true. But with regard to creative art, rules are made to be broken. There are obvious exceptions - high key doesn't mean overposed and low key doesn't mean underexposed - but it may be fine to blow some highlights to save shadow detail, if that's the important part of the image and it's your intent to exceed the dynamic range of the image. However, expect the comment that you could have balanced the light with a reflector or fill lighting.

Some people hate slanted horizon lines - others think they add dynamics to the photograph (we're talking G&N here, not landscapes). Framing and the use of negative and positive space can also vary hugely depending on your tastes, and lets not get into poses, clothing and hairstyles.

Often, it really does all come down to a matter of taste - yours or the client's.

hawk911
5th of February 2009 (Thu), 09:10
+1 to both of these.

Watch the attitude guys, the kind of cliquey elitism that this thread exudes isn't the POTN way, this is a friendly forum for people of all skill levels and interests. It's also completely hypocritical to whinge about people not commenting in your threads, and then complaining about the comments you do receive.


Have you ever noticed which photogs get the comments, and the rest of us get nothing? Pretty Cliquey too, if you ask me.

VA2GXB
5th of February 2009 (Thu), 10:02
Art, like Religion and Politics, is a widely contentious issue, and it takes all shapes and sizes to make up the world!

TooManyHobbies
19th of February 2009 (Thu), 15:33
Back to the beginning....

I agree and disagree. It's all subjective, but there are guides that help ditinguish between good and bad. There is subjectiveness. In the end it is art and opinions given here are only to help you not to tell you what to do.

Artistically I do like images done wrong, if that was the intent.

As for comments from posters who don't post good work, I may be guilty since I usually post my bad stuff to determine if i should waste my time pping. I consider myself an awesome pp'er (who doesn't have the time to do it right) compared to just a technically good photographer.

So my main point would be .... don't be discouraged by feedback, use it to grow, and that doesn't mean always following it.

I DO PHOTOGRAPHY FOR MYSELF AND NO ONE ELSE.

charlesu
19th of February 2009 (Thu), 20:17
I like to have fun looking at a good image in a post and watching the technicians (those who are more concerned with the technical aspects of an image than its aesthetic impact) tear it apart. If you look at many of the works from the last 50 or 100 years that are now considered masterworks they could typically be taken apart completely by a local camera club or online forum by folks who would totally miss the majesty of the image.

You make a great point.

I have one of Cartier-Bresson's more famous images hanging in my dining room. It's a masterpiece but some would argue (particularly if they did not know who Bresson was) that it looks like an image a chimp could have made.

http://theboldsoul.lisataylorhuff.com/photos/favorite_artwork/cartierbresson.html

Look at the verticals that are all wrong, the cropped feet, the dirty splotches on the pavement, the vertical line coming up out of the boy's head, the girl cropped in the left hand portion of the picture, the messy clothes on the boy, etc.

johnz
21st of February 2009 (Sat), 10:59
Look at the verticals that are all wrong, the cropped feet, the dirty splotches on the pavement, the vertical line coming up out of the boy's head, the girl cropped in the left hand portion of the picture, the messy clothes on the boy, etc.

bw!